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Permanent stealth inside objectives needs counterplay, please.


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Its funny when you look at stats and see Thief is one of the least played classes, cause then you think to yourself "People play Thief, un-ironically?" 

 

They really must just all be in wvw roaming. This is all they can do, gotta give them something so they have a single reason to exist as a class 🙂

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I'm going to summarize what you just wrote: "If the thief you are facing is an idiot, you have a good chance to counter them". No kitten.   If a thief WANTS to remains undetected for an

target painter and target painter trap are a pain in the kitten but a thief can usually outrun any followup. reveal? de elite says hi watchtower tactic is effective but cmon... this shouldnt

Hello. I'm playing for almost two years, mostly WvW, yet i have not found any counterplay for enemy thieves sitting in towers, aside of bringing entire blob to smoke them out. If i'm just mi

48 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Its funny when you look at stats and see Thief is one of the least played classes, cause then you think to yourself "People play Thief, un-ironically?" 

 

They really must just all be in wvw roaming. This is all they can do, gotta give them something so they have a single reason to exist as a class 🙂

 

Least played lol, I don't believe that. But hey we just need to give them a mass condi conversion, make consume plasma squad wide, longer mass stealth to get them into the top played, easy proven way to get a class into the meta.

 

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I find it humorous that thief mains who are supposedly good with their class never manage to survive in an enemy structure long enough to flip it and yet a part-time thief life myself is repeatedly able to accomplish just that.

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25 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

Least played lol, I don't believe that. But hey we just need to give them a mass condi conversion, make consume plasma squad wide, longer mass stealth to get them into the top played, easy proven way to get a class into the meta.

 

According to gw2efficiency stats, they are the third least played class, under them is Rev, with Engie as the least played class in the game though 😛 

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4 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Agreed, yet people is telling me thief is literally unbalanced and uncounterable even while marked. 

And no, you said thieves can still freely become invisible and move away with high mobility while marked because it doesn't prevent you to become stealthed, which honestly isn't entirely true.

 

Because a thief with full stealth skill set will only have 5SB (two uses into no initiative and extremely limited inside structures) and steal, which teleports him to you, and again, limited inside structures.

 

Remember we are talking about a scenario that happens inside a structure, not next to a sentry.

No I did not say thieves can "freely become invisible" I said they could stealth every 3s after marked which granted, isnt entirely true. I meant to say after revealed but I wont bother editing the posts. It's 40% stealth uptime (2s stealth every 5s).

 

The scenario is completely irrelevant. Marked is marked no matter the place. And mobility isnt even impacted.

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28 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

The scenario is completely irrelevant. Marked is marked no matter the place. And mobility isnt even impacted.

Again, not true. Outside structures you can shadowstep/infiltrators arrow/steal between different heights. Inside structures this is impossible to do except for very very few exceptions, being the alpine garrison the only one that comes to mind.

In the alpine southwest tower for example, all that vertical movement simply doesn't exist, so I say the mobility is VERY IMPACTED depending of the scenario.

 

C'mon, Anet manually marks zones you can't teleport and most of them are inside structures, how can you possibly say the scenario is irrelevant.

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14 minutes ago, Shining One.1635 said:

It's also important to note that there are several places in various structures where Marked doesn't work.

That I know, you can safely stay unmarked between walls in the desert east keep, in the highest mountain next to a beetle, following upstairs.

And there is also a very small area in the alpine west keep, on the rocky zone near to the border, where you won't be marked, although the spot is on plain sight.

 

Now things like that, plus the ability to jump inside structures or shadow portal abuse are things players should really complain about, not about the average stealth thief.

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1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

According to gw2efficiency stats, they are the third least played class, under them is Rev, with Engie as the least played class in the game though 😛 

 

Oh they definitely need a buff now, and so do Revs and Engies!

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Its funny when you look at stats and see Thief is one of the least played classes, cause then you think to yourself "People play Thief, un-ironically?"

I don't think I've ever seen Arenanet release any statistics of that kind, so where did you get them?

Edited by Fueki.4753
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17 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I don't think I've ever seen Arenanet release any statistics of that kind, so where did you get them?

 

He's pulling it off this site https://gw2efficiency.com/account/player-statistics

Which only pulls stats from players who signed into there, not every actual account.

Because even back by PoF time they had 11 millions players with around 53m characters.

https://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/gw2.jpg


 

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

 

He's pulling it off this site https://gw2efficiency.com/account/player-statistics

Which only pulls stats from players who signed into there, not every actual account.

Because even back by PoF time they had 11 millions players with around 53m characters.

https://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/gw2.jpg

But gw2efficiency statistics literally mean nothing.

It's not even be slightly reflective of the games population.

It's a no-brainer to dismiss that site's data when considering the game's health.

 

Edited by Fueki.4753
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I think changing the Warclaw's Sniff to reveal stealthed enemies would be a fair change to help counter perma-stealth Thieves hiding in objectives. Sniff is on a fairly long cooldown (45s, I think?), and I bet that most zergs won't really have the coordination to properly overlap their Sniffs to keep on revealing the Thief. (Not to mention in bigger Keeps like in DBL or SMC, there are places you can hide to be out of the detection radius.)

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9 hours ago, Zaxares.5419 said:

I think changing the Warclaw's Sniff to reveal stealthed enemies would be a fair change to help counter perma-stealth Thieves hiding in objectives. Sniff is on a fairly long cooldown (45s, I think?), and I bet that most zergs won't really have the coordination to properly overlap their Sniffs to keep on revealing the Thief. (Not to mention in bigger Keeps like in DBL or SMC, there are places you can hide to be out of the detection radius.)

That's not a long cooldown and that radius is huge. zergs wont have to coordinate anything, people will just do that regularly on their own. That would effect players trying travel or use Stealth Attacks just in the area who might not even be part of that fight, but all of the sudden they're revealed. That, over a build that you're not going to see much of and is only as successful as the laziness of other players and their stat and build choice. 

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For years we've had mesmer sweeps; and mesmer players got extremely good at hiding in objectives, and have some limited access to stealth too. It felt pretty fair though; if you spent the time to look you'd realistically find them, but if you were careless you'd be punished (this was pre-reveal buff on capture though).

 

Once thieves got access to a portal, defenders became obliged to do a sweep of a captured structure which dramatically outweighs the effort a thief needs to put in, combining years of mesmer hiding places with strong stealth ability and fast movement when you do catch them.

God forbid the enemy broke into inner and the thief went to hide while defenders successfully repelled attackers.

 

Options for the defender are at least 5 people roaming around a pretty large area (particularly Air keep on DBL), or 1 person perma scouting inner.

 

This is not fun and traps are really limited in their counter play.

 

It was never a good idea to give thieves the ability to portal others. Remove it please.

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11 hours ago, Zaxares.5419 said:

I think changing the Warclaw's Sniff to reveal stealthed enemies would be a fair change to help counter perma-stealth Thieves hiding in objectives. Sniff is on a fairly long cooldown (45s, I think?), and I bet that most zergs won't really have the coordination to properly overlap their Sniffs to keep on revealing the Thief. (Not to mention in bigger Keeps like in DBL or SMC, there are places you can hide to be out of the detection radius.)

Reveal, nah. Show on map during the sniff, Yes. 

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Funny thing is they put in the 5min reveal in keeps after cap in order to get rid of the hiding mesmers and thieves.. but then they give the bigger stealth class a portal too so they can also do these hiding shenanigan's in towers instead... it's like they don't even know the reason they even put in some of the changes they made in the past... so kitten clueless.

 

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13 hours ago, Zaxares.5419 said:

I think changing the Warclaw's Sniff to reveal stealthed enemies would be a fair change to help counter perma-stealth Thieves hiding in objectives. Sniff is on a fairly long cooldown (45s, I think?), and I bet that most zergs won't really have the coordination to properly overlap their Sniffs to keep on revealing the Thief. (Not to mention in bigger Keeps like in DBL or SMC, there are places you can hide to be out of the detection radius.)

This is the worst idea I have read in this forum. Giving to every single player in a 5.000 radius the ability to reveal you by simply pressing a key.

 

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6 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Funny thing is they put in the 5min reveal in keeps after cap in order to get rid of the hiding mesmers and thieves.. but then they give the bigger stealth class a portal too so they can also do these hiding shenanigan's in towers instead... it's like they don't even know the reason they even put in some of the changes they made in the past... so kitten clueless.

 

Interesting, last week I've met a teef that somehow removed that marked/reveal after like 1-2mins after objective capture(he didn't have it on his bar, he wasn't shown on minimap as red dot and lord still had over 2min buff on him).
Also slapping that marked/revealed on so many objectives in WvW just shows how kitten the stealth really is, if you need "an outside source" to have some chances against it.

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1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Interesting, last week I've met a teef that somehow removed that marked/reveal after like 1-2mins after objective capture(he didn't have it on his bar, he wasn't shown on minimap as red dot and lord still had over 2min buff on him).

I haven't tested this recently, but in the past, a player would lose Marked if they got downed and then rallied. Naturally, some players would deliberately exploit this by getting a guard low, letting the guard down them, then rally off the guard.

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3 hours ago, Shining One.1635 said:

I haven't tested this recently, but in the past, a player would lose Marked if they got downed and then rallied. Naturally, some players would deliberately exploit this by getting a guard low, letting the guard down them, then rally off the guard.

And previously mentioned gaps in coverage, DBL bay most notably which has zero coverage on marked beyond the 3 bridges to the the lord room.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/6/2021 at 8:08 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

It'd be a decent solution, if enemy players were simply kicked out of objectives once they change their owner.

 

This way Arenanet wouldn't even need to touch their beloved stealth.

No thanks. We like hunting down the last of the bags that are still inside like the trapped rats they are.

 

  

7 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

And previously mentioned gaps in coverage, DBL bay most notably which has zero coverage on marked beyond the 3 bridges to the the lord room.

Shhh, that's a bug and was a quiet one until you said something.

Edited by Bristingr.5034
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