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Remember when no one wanted mounts?


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16 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Anet have already solved most of those problems by permitting duelling only in appropriate arenas (in guild halls, and various PvP and WvW maps) where it's not in the way of other activities.

 

In PvE zones, dueling wouldn't get in the way of other activities any more than players get in the way of hearts or events just because they're also completing them too. In the city, as I just said before, you can designate one of the commonly empty areas of each city as a duel zone and duels can only take place there.

 

As to the rest of the ways to PvP, I will break them down:

 

Guild Halls: Was promising at first, but it soon became a massive let-down when everyone realized the guild halls are designated as a PvE zone for some weird reason, and thus, you're stuck with the PvE gear you have for any duels. Oh, it's not maxed out? Too bad.

 

PvP Maps: You gotta queue into a match with other players. Or you can look for an empty custom arena. Which is pretty annoying and clunky. Or you can have your own custom arena to speed up the process a little, but then you have to pay ANet for the privilege.

 

Heart of the Mists FFA Arena: This is probably the best option for dueling in the game currently. But again, you gotta group up with whoever you're gonna duel with, go to the HotM, waypoint to the FFA arena, and then pray that no one else is there so you can both duel uninterrupted. (Very unlikely.) So it's still kinda clunky and doesn't always work.

 

WvW Maps: You can't fight others who have the same home server as you. Chance to be interrupted. Takes a long time just getting out to a good place. You gotta travel again every time you die. Probably the worst option on this list.

 

This whole argument reminds me of Don Mattrick's infamous statement. "Fortunately, we have a product for people who aren’t able to get some form of connectivity, it’s called Xbox 360."

 

"Fortunately, we have a product for people who want to duel, it’s called the PvP areas."

 

10 hours ago, Blude.6812 said:

Give it up on the same old request about adding dueling in PvE.  Not wanted or needed. and has nothing to do with mounts.

 

No, because you guys keep putting up the same spurious arguments against it time and time again. Nothing that ANet adds is "needed", and wanted, there have been a fair few people in this topic already who have talked in favor of getting it or at least don't really care if it's added or not. And even putting that aside, I wonder how many people have left GW2 because of ANet constantly treating PvP players like second-class citizens.

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ANet laughed at you lot, then introduced mounts anyway. Now all of you are buying the newest mount skins on release.   So hopefully for the newest expansion, dueling will make an appearance.

"Remember when no one wanted mounts?" Not really.

The reaction from others to your post is largely a function of the tone you have used in your OP and in your other responses in this thread. You started with an aggressive tone ("remember how totall

10 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

In PvE zones, dueling wouldn't get in the way of other activities any more than players get in the way of hearts or events just because they're also completing them too.

 

How can you know that?

 

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

How can you know that?

 

 

Because people are moving and popping off skills and attacks and summoning mounts in PvE areas constantly already? Like they're supposed to? Why is it bad when people are popping skills in a dueling context instead of a PvE context? That makes no sense at all.

 

  

1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

In my opinion, dueling doesn't belong in this game. I'd rather never see it here. I felt the same about raids and I still feel that way.

 

Fractals are essentially raids... So are dungeons... Strike missions...

Edited by Arnox.5128
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

In PvE zones, dueling wouldn't get in the way of other activities any more than players get in the way of hearts or events just because they're also completing them too.

Maybe, but is that really relevant? The question isn't if it gets 'in the way'. The question is if we need dueling in PVE areas. I can't think of a single reason. 

 

To be fair, I can remember when people didn't want mounts. I was one of them. Even though we have them, concerns people had at that time that mounts trivialize some PVE content are still very relevant and true. That would be no different for enabling dueling in PVE areas. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The question is if we need dueling in PVE areas.

 

We don't NEED anything. It's just nice to have and makes the world a little more alive and interactive.

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4 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

We don't NEED anything. It's just nice to have and makes the world a little more alive and interactive.

True, it's only a luxury (since we already have places people can duel) ... for a very small number of people for a very small benefit TO THEM. Based on that, I would say it's a low value feature and there are better things for Anet to concentrate on. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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5 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

We don't NEED anything. It's just nice to have and makes the world a little more alive and interactive.

For you and those who agree with you. For you it's nice to have. For many of us, apparently, it isn't. Since you don't NEED it, why is this continually being pushed on people who obvious don't WANT it?

 

Honestly, dueling in PVE areas would have me looking for a new game to play.

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48 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

Because people are moving and popping off skills and attacks and summoning mounts in PvE areas constantly already? Like they're supposed to? Why is it bad when people are popping skills in a dueling context instead of a PvE context? That makes no sense at all.

 

  

 

Fractals are essentially raids... So are dungeons... Strike missions...

Two reasons. First, dueling with someone else can scale up events that I'm doing and they're not. If you're not dueling there's at least a chance you're participating.

More importantly, dueling invites people to the game who want to duel. I'm sure most of them are fine, upstanding people but a percentage of them will be trolls. They'll annoy you. Jump up and down in front of you if you don't accept their dueling request or if you're not flagged for dueling. This has happened to me in multiple games.

 

Some kid will follow me around, get in my face, whisper me and when I block him take it to map chat, where you'll only see half the conversation. Go to a PvP room or WvW or the Guild Arena and duel.  Don't bring it into the game, because I don't like some of the people that it attracts.  In the other thread were dueling has mentioned, you'll find I'm not alone in my thoughts on dueling. There are a zillion PvP centric games out there or games with open world PvP. Good place for dueling. Here, PvE is cooperative. Not the right place.

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4 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

More importantly, dueling invites people to the game who want to duel. I'm sure most of them are fine, upstanding people but a percentage of them will be trolls. They'll annoy you. Jump up and down in front of you if you don't accept their dueling request or if you're not flagged for dueling. This has happened to me in multiple games.

 

 

I sort of feel like these pro-dueling threads are a great example of that already. "The game would be better for everyone if I had my way, and the rest of the player base is just wrong about everything. Let's fight about it."

 

No, let's not.

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

(since we already have places people can duel)

 

None that don't suck as already detailed above.

 

51 minutes ago, Danger Ferret.6342 said:

Since you don't NEED it, why is this continually being pushed

 

Because it doesn't affect you if you don't want it. As we've already talked about.

 

44 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Two reasons. First, dueling with someone else can scale up events that I'm doing and they're not. If you're not dueling there's at least a chance you're participating.

 

There probably won't be any duels in event areas. And if there are, it shouldn't make that much of an impact.

 

44 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

More importantly, dueling invites people to the game who want to duel. I'm sure most of them are fine, upstanding people but a percentage of them will be trolls. They'll annoy you. Jump up and down in front of you if you don't accept their dueling request or if you're not flagged for dueling. This has happened to me in multiple games.

 

Let's see how this sounds when I just substitute dueling for mounts here.

 

44 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

More importantly, mounts invites people to the game who want to have mounts. I'm sure most of them are fine, upstanding people but a percentage of them will be trolls. They'll annoy you. Jump up and down in front of you if they don't like you or are just trying to annoy you. This has happened to me in multiple games.

 

You guys have a pathological fear of trolls. For the fiftieth time, THIS IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT. You can use SO MANY FEATURES IN THIS GAME TO TROLL ALREADY. Mounts? You can troll with them. PvP matches? Trolls in them. Bright infusions? Super annoying to look at when stacked. Dungeons? People will sandbag them and harass you

 

Stop with this argument. If we didn't add features based on trolling potential NOTHING WOULD BE ADDED IN THIS GAME.

 

This is an MMO. You gotta take the good with the bad. You can't keep out every annoying person. I get that dueling when improperly implemented could be bad, but no one's asking for a bad implementation of it. And I don't even mind if you don't want it in the game, but I keep seeing the same debunked arguments over and over and over again. In the same thread. People, this is ridiculous.

Edited by Arnox.5128
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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

 And I don't even mind if you don't want it in the game, but I keep seeing the same debunked arguments over and over and over again. In the same thread. People, this is ridiculous.

Continuing to beat people over the head with something they don't want and insisting all their arguments have been debunked is what's ridiculous.

 

 

Edited by Danger Ferret.6342
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Just now, Danger Ferret.6342 said:

Continuing to beat people over the head with something they don't want and insisting all their arguments have been debunked is what's ridiculous.

 

Fine. Show me one argument I didn't address yet.

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4 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

Fine. Show me one argument I didn't address yet.

Your entire attitude is the argument you haven't addressed yet, and exactly why I don't want to deal with duelists in PVE. "I'm right! I'm right Prove me wrong. Prove me wrong. You don't know what will make the game better. I do" You're going to insist your arguments are correct no matter what and continue to demand the rest of us acquiesce to your superior logic. It's exactly like someone in WoW dancing around me continuously demanding that I duel, and exactly what I never log in to video games to experience.

 

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4 minutes ago, Danger Ferret.6342 said:

Your entire attitude is the argument you haven't addressed yet, and exactly why I don't want to deal with duelists in PVE. "I'm right! I'm right Prove me wrong. Prove me wrong. You don't know what will make the game better. I do" You're going to insist your arguments are correct no matter what and continue to demand the rest of us acquiesce to your superior logic. It's exactly like someone in WoW dancing around me continuously demanding that I duel, and exactly what I never log in to video games to experience.

 

 

Gee, it's almost like we're in a forum thread discussing the possible merits and problems of adding a feature and I want you to contribute something that hasn't been brought up no less than three times in this thread already. I'm mad not because you disagree with me. I'm mad because people aren't listening. You say that I'm saying, "I want it therefore it should be in the game." But when I ask you to tell me why it shouldn't be and give a reason that hasn't been debunked yet, you start complaining about my attitude and tell me this is what all duelists are gonna be like.

 

Well I certainly hope so, because I am trying to be reasonable here. Some others would just laugh at you and/or leave.

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14 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

There already exists a game mode for dueling.  Seems that is not so popular as open world PvE.  Maybe there aren't as many GW2 players who want to duel which is why the population in PvP struggles?  Maybe Anet realizes this and caters to the group that brings them the most financial return?  Why, then, incorporate yet another dueling mode when it would appear that a sizeable portion of the player base prefers not to duel?

WvW is the mode that is second to open world PvE which is where most duels happen. They do nothing for it out of laziness nothing more; The mode has been left to rot until it eventually expires. Ideally no mode should go without content or if it does, consolidate and remove it to show how you have no intentions of giving it love. Let that part go and focus on what it is you "care about"

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2 hours ago, Conncept.7638 said:

You have a poor memory then, or haven't been here very long.

Once again, check our profiles before making such an opinion. Either way, please don’t speak on other people being cyber-bullies when your own comment leans in that direction.

 

I have nothing else to say on this topic.

Edited by Ardenwolfe.8590
Removed part of the quote with personal attacks
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3 hours ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

In PvE zones, dueling wouldn't get in the way of other activities any more than players get in the way of hearts or events just because they're also completing them too. In the city, as I just said before, you can designate one of the commonly empty areas of each city as a duel zone and duels can only take place there.

 

As to the rest of the ways to PvP, I will break them down:

 

Guild Halls: Was promising at first, but it soon became a massive let-down when everyone realized the guild halls are designated as a PvE zone for some weird reason, and thus, you're stuck with the PvE gear you have for any duels. Oh, it's not maxed out? Too bad.

 

 

If Guild Hall dueling is unsatisfactory because it uses PvE gear, why would Open World dueling be satisfactory?  That would use PvE gear, as well. 

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Another issue with dueling in PvE is if it's allowed out of the city, people will absolutely find out ways to exploit it to either kill world bosses, bug the entire event for everyone, or trick other players into entering PvP so they can then be ganked. Even if those three things are somehow avoided, PvPing at and on world bosses would absolutely become a common trolling mechanic to further obscure the visuals because the trolls would still get all the loot if they tag the boss.

 

You also end up with people sitting in starter zones dueling each other with all the flashy visuals while discouraging/preventing new players from simple PvE. Currently if someone's going around kill stealing mobs and it's clear they're only doing so to harass other players, that is reportable. With PvP, players could do that but now there's plausible deniability because they and their friend just so happened to wind up dueling in a spot that makes it difficult-to-impossible to finish that heart in a remotely timely manner.

 

The only way dueling should be added is if it's in a dedicated place, not in the open world where it gives people another tool to harass others.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

Gee, it's almost like we're in a forum thread discussing the possible merits and problems of adding a feature and I want you to contribute something that hasn't been brought up no less than three times in this thread already. I'm mad not because you disagree with me. I'm mad because people aren't listening. You say that I'm saying, "I want it therefore it should be in the game." But when I ask you to tell me why it shouldn't be and give a reason that hasn't been debunked yet, you start complaining about my attitude and tell me this is what all duelists are gonna be like.

 

Well I certainly hope so, because I am trying to be reasonable here. Some others would just laugh at you and/or leave.

People are listening. You want dueling in PVE. Most of us don't. I don't care whether you believe yourself to be superior in reason, or insist I'm not contributing. The fact is others have chimed in repeatedly with what I consider to be very valid arguments, and you simply dismiss them as invalid or ridiculous. That doesn't seem reasonable to me.

 

Look, if I lived with a group of people and I wanted to put a pool into the backyard to improve the yard experience for everybody, I could bring it up to a house vote. If most people don't want it, then it's probably not going to happen. Attempting to invalidate all the reasons they don't want it as ridiculous or wrong doesn't make those opinions any less their opinions; it just means I've chosen to weigh those opinions as less important than my own.

 

The FACT is: dueling doesn't exist in PVE currently. Everyone talking about what it would or would not be like is talking hypothetically, therefore offering an opinion. Including you. Insisting everyone else needs to abdicate their opinions as "spurious" doesn't actually invalidate them as arguments; it just shows you're unwilling to consider them.

 

If many or even most players feel dueling in PVE will degrade the quality of life for those of us who live in PVE, it doesn't matter whether you agree or not. Just like I think it's kittening stupid to have to do a WvW track to craft legendary weapons. I've mentioned it a couple of times, but it doesn't seem to be something that most players consider a negative, so I'm just not going to be crafting any legendary weapons anytime soon. I could come up with a thousand reasons why I believe changing this would improve the player experience, but maybe others disagree. If I just demand my way, and tell everyone else their arguments are debunked or stupid just because I can come up with a counterargument that is superior in my own mind, it doesn't mean the universe should realign itself around me to suit my needs.

 

You can think you are right and more reasonable all you want, and that the rest of us are all wrong. And be mad at me; don't be mad at me for this or that reason. I honestly don't care as your mood won't affect my day at all. But don't repeatedly insult and dismiss the opinions of everyone discussing something from the other side, and then expect people to be swayed by anything you have to say. You clearly have already thought of everything and decided in your own favor. If ANet agrees and changes to suit you, I'm not going to spend my time going on and on about it endlessly and demanding they change back.

 

When it comes to what people enjoy and don't enjoy, you'll find telling them they're wrong to have the opinions they have because they don't align with your personal perceptions and experiences isn't reasonable, as you have no right or power to determine what I or anyone else finds enjoyable in-world and what I find annoying. Doing so isn't reason, it's stubbornness.

 

Quality of life in game play is a HUGE merit for me. Dueling disturbs that. It doesn't matter whether YOU think it does or not for me to find it so. Insisting that's ridiculous doesn't mean a thing to me. I don't care. And I don't care precisely because you've chosen not to care about any opinions on this matter other than your own. You just don't care really verbosely.

 

PS - Aside from repeatedly dismissing all other opinions as debunked, spurious and well, all the other insulting terms you've used, you've also claimed ArenaNet treats PVP players like second-class citizens, and that they haven't gotten dueling combat right in any other instance. You've offered an outline for what you think is right. Do you think it's likely that ArenaNet - even if they did add PVE dueling - would do it according to YOUR exact specifications? I don't recall that ever happening in the history of gaming. If ArenaNet disappoints you on PVP four times, why would you think a fifth would do the trick?

 

Maybe a better idea is to convince them to fix what's broken, rather than trying to convince them to break what isn't.

Edited by Danger Ferret.6342
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I'm not sure just saying, "This probably would not happen, and if it does, it should not have an impact" can really be considered 'debunking'. 

 

If it is considered 'debunking', then let's say, "This probably would happen, and when it does it shall have an impact" to debunk the 'debunking'.  😜

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On 6/7/2021 at 7:38 PM, Razor.6392 said:

ANet laughed at you lot, then introduced mounts anyway. Now all of you are buying the newest mount skins on release.

 

So hopefully for the newest expansion, dueling will make an appearance. If it did, people would just accept it over time anyway and the loudest voices would eventually start enjoying it too 🙂

 

BRING DUELING AND GUILD WARS ALREADY ANET, IT'S BEEN TOO kitten LONG

 

Hiding the actual topic behind another one (see subject line) is clever, I give you that. 😉

 

I just don't like how you generalize. "All of us" are not buying the latest mount skins. Most of us only buy what they like, and in my case that's not much. The same goes for dueling: not everyone appreciated the idea. I, for one, see no use for it in this game.

 

Are you that bored with GW2 that you are looking for players to slay? :classic_biggrin:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

None that don't suck as already detailed above.

 

 

Because it doesn't affect you if you don't want it. As we've already talked about.

 

 

There probably won't be any duels in event areas. And if there are, it shouldn't make that much of an impact.

 

 

Let's see how this sounds when I just substitute dueling for mounts here.

 

 

You guys have a pathological fear of trolls. For the fiftieth time, THIS IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT. You can use SO MANY FEATURES IN THIS GAME TO TROLL ALREADY. Mounts? You can troll with them. PvP matches? Trolls in them. Bright infusions? Super annoying to look at when stacked. Dungeons? People will sandbag them and harass you

 

Stop with this argument. If we didn't add features based on trolling potential NOTHING WOULD BE ADDED IN THIS GAME.

 

This is an MMO. You gotta take the good with the bad. You can't keep out every annoying person. I get that dueling when improperly implemented could be bad, but no one's asking for a bad implementation of it. And I don't even mind if you don't want it in the game, but I keep seeing the same debunked arguments over and over and over again. In the same thread. People, this is ridiculous.

You saying it's not a valid argument reinforces everything I say.  The kind of roll over people forceful aggression is a turnoff to me. If the kind of people that want dueling are the kind of people posting about wanting dueling, you're doing more harm to your cause than good.  You're creating a combative environment.

You offhandedly dismiss valid complaints like it would scale up dynamic events, by saying probably not by that much. You don't really know that.  There are plenty of times a couple of people in an area doing something else have scaled up events just enough to make them harder for people who aren't necessarily hard core players. And that's probably most of the population.

My guess is a tiny minority of people would use the dueling anyway which is the best reason not to introduce it. The guys that want it probably don't outnumber the guys that don't in this game and spending dev resources on it is probably not going to happen anyway.

Mounts are different for two reasons. One, they are unique among MMOs out there. No other MMO have mounts like the mounts in this game. And two, they can be monetized, thus support the game. Dueling would just annoy a percentage of the population. 

I'm not dismissive of you wanting dueling. You asked for reasons why not and I provided reasons. Those are sound reasons to a percentage of the player base, but you're here saying this isn't a valid reason.  Well, it's a valid reason to some of us. My guess is enough of us to make it a point.   You may not agree and you're welcome to not agree. But you saying something is not valid doesn't make it so.  

Edited by Vayne.8563
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

If Guild Hall dueling is unsatisfactory because it uses PvE gear, why would Open World dueling be satisfactory?  That would use PvE gear, as well. 

 

Why does it have to use PvE gear?

 

2 hours ago, Zephire.8049 said:

Another issue with dueling in PvE is if it's allowed out of the city, people will absolutely find out ways to exploit it to either kill world bosses

 

Like... You're supposed to?

 

2 hours ago, Zephire.8049 said:

bug the entire event for everyone

 

This is all assuming that dueling can even affect the event, that ANet writes the code for it really terribly, and finally, assumes such a thing can't be patched. The first is unlikely, the second is unlikely, and the last is completely false.

 

2 hours ago, Zephire.8049 said:

or trick other players into entering PvP so they can then be ganked.

 

How do you get "tricked" into dueling? The prompt would say, "Do you want to duel? Yes or no." How dense do you have to be? And even if that happened, so what? At worst, they have to respawn at a WP. And again, that's assuming ANet wrote it really terribly.

 

2 hours ago, Zephire.8049 said:

PvPing at and on world bosses would absolutely become a common trolling mechanic to further obscure the visuals

 

What? Is this a serious argument? Am I getting punked?

 

You know what? You win. I'm out. It's someone else's turn now to argue with you guys.

Edited by Arnox.5128
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2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Hiding the actual topic behind another one (see subject line) is clever, I give you that. 😉

 

I just don't like how you generalize. "All of us" are not buying the latest mount skins. Most of us only buy what they like, and in my case that's not much. The same goes for dueling: not everyone appreciated the idea. I, for one, see no use for it in this game.

 

Are you that bored with GW2 that you are looking for players to slay? :classic_biggrin:

No... but having the option for some casual fun would be nice.

 

Idk what kind of people you guys think pro-duelers are lol.

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2 minutes ago, Arnox.5128 said:

 

Why does it have to use PvE gear?

 

 

Like... You're supposed to?

 

 

This is all assuming that dueling can even affect the event, that ANet writes the code for it really terribly, and finally, assumes such a thing can't be patched. The first is unlikely, the second is unlikely, and the last is completely false.

 

 

How do you get "tricked" into dueling? The prompt would say, "Do you want to duel? Yes or no." How dense do you have to be? And even if that happened, so what? At worst, they have to respawn at a WP. And again, that's assuming ANet wrote it really terribly.

 

 

What? Is this a serious argument? Am I getting punked?

 

You know what? You guys win. I'm out. It's someone else's turn now to argue with you guys.

Just ignore those posts. It's nothing but speculation and what ifs built entirely inside of their minds. 

 

Yes guys, dueling will cause the following:

  1. Disrupt meta events.
  2. Give """trolls""" a fancy new tool.
  3. Provoke harassment.
  4. Bring all the guys from wvw / pvp solely to whisper or duel bomb innocent pveers.
  5. Ruin immersion because everyone in tyria is supposed to be allies. The pact, dragons watch, yadda yadda.
  6. Make every role player quit.
  7. Make random people suddenly stalk you and follow you for hours on end.
  8. Get you griefed because you refused to duel out of nowhere.
  9. No events will ever get completed anymore because everyone's too busy dueling.
  10. Key balance and black lion goods will be at an all time low because dueling also disrupts story instances.
  11. Gem price will go up
  12. Zhaitan comes back from the dead because of the bloodshed between fellow tyrians somehow revived him.
  13. Heart of the mists and eternal battlegrounds are now completely empty. Everyone is in Drizzle trolling each other.
  14. A dueling open world meta will develop. You got to hop on a dueling ready class or get ready to be embarrassed.
  15. This meta isn't world event friendly, now bosses just won't die because everyone's on sustain builds.
  16. People can't finish dailies, events or any type of open world content, there's no other option but quitting.

See? I can play too. The funniest part is that most of these can already be prevented by blocking people. Just disable duel requests, ANet could make it so that dueling is impossible while metas or nearby events are happening, and that's it.

 

 

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