Why nerf a spec that does not exist in PVE?

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

23 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

You take the time to clarify that everyone is playing FB and Scourge but call out rev when its really just Renegade. Don't lump those things in with the rest of the revenant playerbase, not all of us like it. And the nerfs keep hitting core and herald because people aren't clarifying that renegade is the culprit.

i think the most problem with arguments like this is simply.. Most players have every class at max level and generally just play whatever does well or is considered meta patch to patch. Mesmer Multiplied MASSIVELY when the changes came in on the 11th.

It isnt the fact everyone is FB Or scourged.. its a Case of Most people can fill every class in a Raid depending on what is needed.. theres a Reason that the playtime on classes is almost identical across the board Excluding Rev and Engineer.

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

23 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Yeah but that's false.

There is no reaction about elementalist's benchmark. Not here on this sub-forum, not on Group content sub-forum, not on reddi, not in game. No one cares.

Plus this isn't new. Elementalist has repeateadly been top tier since tempest. So there is no surprise, there is no reason to nerf elementalist today rather than next balance patch, the last one ...

Even newbies, if they do the effort to go on SC website, look at benchmarks, I suppose theuy also do the effort to read guides and they see no one is recommanding weaver or tempest.

We're not talking about staff mirage or pistol deadeye where people try it for real, and people reacts because of actual game footage, actual dps log, actual situations. Because they see it's overtuned, themself or they see* others players.
Same for FB no matter the benchmark, because they see* FB everywhere doing great, people asking for FB.

but its not.

Teapot on his stream about this patch Litterally Said the nerfs fine COndi Weaver is Strong.... I mean im giving u hard evidence that People are saying otherwise...

and no your Correct. there arent that much footage surrounding Fire weaver. but u do get people who talk about Elementalist you do have it Under top tier meta on Discenize aswell. its Also in Meta brackets on metabattle and Gods of PvP.

to the second point.

No. because Everyone openly says Elementalist is too difficult to play for Newbies.. i just happened to not bother checking that out prior rollnig my character.. but the concept that u honestly beleive New Players know about SC before booting the game on a majority. is Unrealistic.

if u just started a brand new game. ur in a honeymoon phase.. ur playing whats "cool". Because as far as ur concerned.. u either will like it or not like it.. u dont research things u potientally will never see. not to mention.. most posts surrounding this people say "roll everything.. gw2 very alt friendly"

Every site surrounding. Calls Elementalist Meta. Weather outdated or not. they do state this. Like this class looks like a top choice.. on everything outside the forums on this class. and how many people take Forum posts seriously.. when u have people calling Everything weak...

Edited June 8, 2021 by Daddy.8125

Infusion.7149 · June 8, 2021

20 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No. That's not what I said.

They nerfed classes based on player reaction. If the playerbase United in a push balance wise it would actually happen.

My post is basically saying their encouraging players to not role a elementalist, because a easier class will give them a better player experience in most cases.

And there is proof of this being a problem.

I play elementalist. I'm a new player, in 80 and have half ascended and half exotic gear but of the right stats etc etc.

I'm Gold 2 in PvP which I actively play. And I'm too scared to play in PvE because the likelyhood imma suck is sooo much higher because of eles difficulty.

I'm not raiding/ doing fractals. Due to a anxiety the class I chose with 0 information gives me. Is this a good player experience? Most likely not. And there are far more players like me then there are who can play weaver to a decent level.

I'm considering changing class, not because of nerfs, not because of the classes DPS, or meta. But because the stress caused by my anxiety is actively gatekeeping my ability to enjoy other parts of the game.

And it's not even built on being bad, or sucking because I'ce not even gotten to the point to see how bad I'd be at it. Because I'm too anxious to join the group in the first place to even get better at it to begin with.

At the end of the day, I'm a average player. And I'm pretty certain there are tons like me you have plenty in streams who just instantly decide they could never learn it. Or too worried to try it.

The weight of "good performance" is felt by alot far more then some. And in my case and people like me u could consider elementalist to be a "trap". Because it effectively has damaged my first impression of the game.

Now ofcourse this isnt because weaver exists. It's because things such as core ele don't exist.

It feels like a massive leap a overwhelming leap jumping from playing the class as a core elementalist and then trying to learn condi weaver.

Now imho that's the real fix. Buff DPS tempest and core ele. Don't nerf weaver. Give the class more options so you can go in on a easier build before going into the higher difficulty.

If this is actually true I would suggest just playing power tempest with marauder trinkets because in general being able to overload air means a great deal of cleave and high protection uptime as well. If you need even more sustain than that just run water traitline instead of fire traitline (discretize removed power tempest but their build was mid , bottom , mid like http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgEsEWGBTkRxuYnYZN522A-zRRYBRDTM4yIiEoiCw2ZR+lN-e). Test in Lion's Arch aerodrome to get a feel for how much damage you actually do. If you don't overload often then just run dagger which has near double the range of sword on weaver, since scepter autoattack is generally not great.

Condi weaver is mostly irrelevant unless you're raiding or doing instanced content such as strikes really as in openworld the burst of power builds is generally more useful. Similarly benchmark DPS is also irrelevant if the ease of the damage is extremely hard for most players. Power weaver with bolt to the heart has something like 19K autoattack with boons which is in line with power soulbeast / power holo in photon forge / power reaper if you average greatsword + death shroud.

In the grand scope of things, even on the site one elementalist player linked before in this subforum shows that the average weaver is not doing that poorly on the older wings (only Matthias could be considered a true condi fight) but it may be skewed because players that still play weaver are probably going to be more confident in their abilities before raiding with it:

Spoiler

As far as team comp goes, LN had weaver recommended on the following:
https://lucky-noobs.com/teamcompositions
* Slothasor (larger hitbox) - power weaver Bolt to the heart
* Matthias - condi weaver

Sobx.1758 · June 8, 2021

10 sec burning instead of 6 with a small overal dmg nerf on the same skill. ABSOLUTELY UNPLAYABLE 😱

Zhaid Zhem.6508 · June 8, 2021

Teapot isn't god, teapot isn't Anet developer. Not everything he say is 100% accurate.

1) I didn't say the nerf isn't hard. It is.

I say you're wrong when you write people will chose elementalist because of benchmark or reaction about benchmark and so anet will nerf for that reason.

2) I didn't say elementalist is easy. On contrary I repeatedly say no one recommand weaver, and that's the reason why.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

9 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Test in Lion's Arch aerodrome to get a feel for how much damage you actually do.

i did try this.. i got to 28k DPS on Condi Weaver on the Golem.. but as Far as im aware thats actually a Mile behind where it Should be benching.. so my DPS Will be lower in a live raid by default.

i heard hybrid Weaver is also abit easier to play also isnt it? Apprantly less boon requiring too.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Daddy.8125

Zhaid Zhem.6508 · June 8, 2021

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

10 sec burning instead of 6 with a small overal dmg nerf on the same skill. ABSOLUTELY UNPLAYABLE 😱

We don't care about the % of nerf, the skill, the e-spec. The skill isn't the issue.

The day, the class, are the issue.

Why nerf elementalist today, one month after balance patch where we had almost nothing ?

Anfd why a nerf ? No one is playing elementalist in pve group content. And even in PvP Fireweaver is just so easy to counter, there is no reason to nerf this skill, no more than an other.

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

6 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Teapot isn't god, teapot isn't Anet developer. Not everything he say is 100% accurate.

1) I didn't say the nerf isn't hard. It is.

I say you're wrong when you write people will chose elementalist because of benchmark or reaction about benchmark.

2) I didn't say elementalist is easy. On contrary I repeatedly say no one recommand weaver, and that's the reason why.

ur right.. hes just a guy who Anet follow closely..

They arte in his streams.. Anetben darkbringergw2 and Another i cant remember All actively are in his Streams.. and they retweet his content.

They arer in his chat 100x More then any other streamer i watch... i wonder if they watch him more then they read these forums in all honesty.

I never called Elementalist easy either, Most people dont recommend Weaver due to difficulty tho not because its "bad". Thats what posts say.. but they also do say its Good and they can choose it if they really will be.. just prepare for a bumpier entrance to the game which isnt "not recommending it" Just saying "u may wanna practice beforehand"

3 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Why nerf elementalist today, one month after balance patch where we had almost nothing ?

Anfd why a nerf ? No one is playing elementalist in pve group content. And even in PvP Fireweaver is just so easy to counter, there is no reason to nerf this skill, no more than an other

tbh if u wait a week or so u will see one.. Melas gonna be doing a 10 Stack Ele raid xD

Edited June 8, 2021 by Daddy.8125

AliamRationem.5172 · June 8, 2021

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

10 sec burning instead of 6 with a small overal dmg nerf on the same skill. ABSOLUTELY UNPLAYABLE 😱

You don't find it even a little frustrating that petty, meaningless nerfs like this somehow make their way into a patch while issues repeatedly discussed on this forum continue to go unaddressed? I've championed this class more than most and have shown other players plenty of good reasons to play it and I find it frustrating. I think many who are expressing similar frustration here are perfectly justified in feeling that this class deserves some love and not just petty nerfs to things like warhorn and fire signet.

Zhaid Zhem.6508 · June 8, 2021

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

ur right.. hes just a guy who Anet follow closely..

They arte in his streams.. Anetben darkbringergw2 and Another i cant remember All actively are in his Streams.. and they retweet his content.

They arer in his chat 100x More then any other streamer i watch... i wonder if they watch him more then they read these forums in all honesty.

I never called Elementalist easy either, Most people dont recommend Weaver due to difficulty tho not because its "bad". Thats what posts say.. but they also do say its Good and they can choose it if they really will be.. just prepare for a bumpier entrance to the game which isnt "not recommending it" Just saying "u may wanna practice beforehand"

No but you say Anet nerf elementalist because of reaction about the benchmark.

There is no reaction.

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

19 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

No but you say Anet nerf elementalist because of reaction about the benchmark.

There is no reaction.

i dont think reactions are really measurable, but i can Say i see Elementalist as a Class i see More often then any other class that New Players have been like WTF this is so bad. calling it a New player Trap and more.

saying theres nothing surrounding Elementalist isnt true either.. Blamathrex, Grimjack and More all play LOADS of elementalist and show it at its highest points really. U have plenty of streamers who if u ask "What class should i begin with" Will say ALL CLASSES ARE GOOD. if u go through the questions on Classes everyone says "all classes are great"

if u talk to people in the mists. they say Every class is broken in a Good players hands.

Im sorry. but no the community do tend to sugarcoat the situation, they tell u all classes are almost equal and that theres no Best choice and nothings better then anything.

This "everythings good" Comments are EXACTLY What a "reaction is"

all these Statements. all indirectly Say "elementalist is broken in a good players hands".

if i go to the General Chat on the forums right now and posted "What class should i start with" on a new account. U will get the odd ones who say "X CLASS OP MAKE THAT" burt overall the notion will be "every class is a good choice".

thief engi and Rev are the classes no one plays by Statistics.

People just dont calculate this as feedback or Something to measure things off because their not specifically saying "elementalist is great". but all those statements Say Ele is a Equal Choice.. its Just as Strong and is among the recommendations..

People dont actively state "just dont roll ele". on anything barring very few cases.

Im not saying specifically a benchmark.. im saying Benchmark is ONE Of the places that state this... i also gave more examples. but u zone into the benchmark.

Discrenize says Ele is meta.

Metabattle says Ele is Meta

Snowcrows has the benchmark itself.

Luckynoobs also has the same benchmarks by the looks of it.

Gods of PVP put fire weaver in meta.

all the sources around (outdated or not which as far as i know most are) it still is there.

P.S

GW2 Efficency Says Elementalist playtime is 12.5%.. its Litterally like 1% Less Playtime then guardian... Just so you know...

GW2 Efficency disagrees with ur statement on "no one plays ele" MASSIVELY...

Revenant is 4.6% For comparison here.

Mesmer, Elementalist, Necromancer, Ranger, Guardian, Warrior are all around the same point in playtime.

im in agreement that the nerfs unwarranted.. theres nothing showing Weaver becoming a FoTM or even the strongest option at all. all i said was a Theory on why Anet persists to nerf the class even though its not the strongest choice. if they didnt know what to do.. t hey wouldnt do anything.. they are doing something which kinda indicates they have a Idea of what they're going for

which are 2 things.

1) Elementalists new Elite is Expected to have a higher Power creep then others.. therefore eles current DPS needs a harder nerf then others before its Arrival.

2) They actively for Some reason want People to roll away from Elementalist.

which side ur on.. depends on how optimistic you are, I'm saying i've seen other games do this.. intentionally Nerf and Keep "more challanging proffessions and speccs Less attractive" I've given examples on where i feel this has happened in other MMORPGS...

Edited June 8, 2021 by Daddy.8125

Thornwolf.9721 · June 8, 2021

36 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

i think the most problem with arguments like this is simply.. Most players have every class at max level and generally just play whatever does well or is considered meta patch to patch. Mesmer Multiplied MASSIVELY when the changes came in on the 11th.

It isnt the fact everyone is FB Or scourged.. its a Case of Most people can fill every class in a Raid depending on what is needed.. theres a Reason that the playtime on classes is almost identical across the board Excluding Rev and Engineer.

When talking about balance its appropriate to separate an E-spec from the core class, because nerfing core hurts everything but the Spec... at least thats what time has shown us.

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

2 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

When talking about balance its appropriate to separate an E-spec from the core class, because nerfing core hurts everything but the Spec... at least thats what time has shown us.

Yeah i guess its mirage not mesmer haha.

and i havent personally experienced those problems.. but i've read they do exist. my second point was Primarily to playtime.. which is done by proffession and not specc, it just gives a flat Playtime of each proffession.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Daddy.8125

Thornwolf.9721 · June 8, 2021

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Yeah i guess its mirage not mesmer haha.

and i havent personally experienced those problems.. but i've read they do exist. my second point was Primarily to playtime.. which is done by proffession and not specc, it just gives a flat Playtime of each proffession.

I am aware and I get your argument; But it just sucks that core classes will get the nerf before the precious PoF specs. Like some classes/specs aren't even viable in some environments; Id love to see the rationale behind these decisions and what brings about the mindset.

All you do is push people off their class, and as its happened 2 times prior for me if they do it for rev Im out. Im not swapping to a new class and I wont make another character; Twice was two times too many for me. I will admit when something is broken and needs a nerf on my preferred classes, but when you just start gutting stuff to make room for a spec or insidiously do it to spite a portion of that classes playerbase? No thanks.

Zhaid Zhem.6508 · June 8, 2021

May be you can't measure it, but you can see when there is no reaction. Or when this is wrong they nerf because of rection, regarding elementalist.

Plus can you explain why the benchmark after 11 may should make a difference when Weaver were already Top1 on benchmarks ?

Top1 DPS before 11 may : no elementalist in pve, no particular reaction. A little change to elements of rage (Not even ~2% DPS increase for condi weaver)

Still Top1 after 11 may. Still no elementalist in pve. Less elementalist in PvP because of necros everywhere.

But yeah they nerf elementalist because of recent reaction ...

Edited June 8, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

1 minute ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

I am aware and I get your argument; But it just sucks that core classes will get the nerf before the precious PoF specs. Like some classes/specs aren't even viable in some environments; Id love to see the rationale behind these decisions and what brings about the mindset.

All you do is push people off their class, and as its happened 2 times prior for me if they do it for rev Im out. Im not swapping to a new class and I wont make another character; Twice was two times too many for me. I will admit when something is broken and needs a nerf on my preferred classes, but when you just start gutting stuff to make room for a spec or insidiously do it to spite a portion of that classes playerbase? No thanks.

if u want a thoery on it.

I think its just the Flaw of Elite speccs.. when we look at Elite speccs.. they utilise the Core with added Mechanics.... which means.. Everything adding to core by default Adds to the Elite, so without completely deviding the choices by giving each Elite its Own Trait lines to choose from. you cant cut it off.. the closer the Elites are to the core in what they do... the Worse this problem seems to be

for example Core Ranger and Druid are still utilised if u look at necromancer lots still use Core Necro and Reaper If u look at guardian Core guard, DH and Firebrand are all utilised.. however for Elementalist it seems Everyone mainly runs weaver basically.

Sobx.1758 · June 8, 2021

32 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

The day, the class, are the issue.

So if it was any other day, you'd be fine with it? Somehow I doubt that.

32 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Why nerf elementalist today, one month after balance patch where we had almost nothing ?

...day "as good" as any other? I don't know. They decided they want to touch it a little, so they did. Lets not pretend you have a problem with the date of the change lol. And what you wrote at the start of the post is exactly what is funny (or sad) about some of the people in this community -you don't care what and how much, but IT'S A NERF so IT'S UNACCEPTABLE!!111

uh.

32 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Anfd why a nerf ? No one is playing elementalist in pve group content.

Now that's just a lie.

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

12 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

May be you can't measure it, but you can see when there is no reaction. Or when this is wrong they nerf because of rection, regarding elementalist.

Plus can you explain why the benchmark after 11 may should make a difference when Weaver were already Top1 on benchmarks ?

Top1 DPS before 11 may : no elementalist in pve, no particular reaction. A little change to elements of rage (Not even ~2% DPS increase for condi weaver)

Still Top1 after 11 may. Still no elementalist in pve. Less elementalist in PvP because of necros everywhere.

But yeah they nerf elementalist because of recent reaction .

are u forgetting may 11th Nerfed Power Weaver for no reason at all?... or is the fact it brought life to condi Weaver ment people overlooked this.

There are lots of conspiracies to exactly what anet are doing.. but theres a Motive behind it.. no one Randomly Nerfs for 0 reason. theres always a Reason. weather its a good or bad reason.. theres a Reason.

and Weaver by metrics and statistics is Proven to be very played.. now u have to ask urself. Why is Ele as Popular as necro in Playtime, yet isnt seen Near as much as Necro?.. this is a question Anet will also be asking... this is a player reaction.. a Reaction showing Plenty play this Class yet NO ONE goes any further with the class or remaisn gated at a very low content level with 0 attempt of pushing further.

Now.. my thought isnt "they nerf elementalist because of Reaction".. im saying they "Nerfed Elementalist to Push people OFF PLAYING ELEMENTALIST". i used the benchmark as a Example of Why people could have Rolled the Classed.. it was 1 of 5 Examples i gave to exactly what coulda encouraged someone to roll Elementalist.

12.5% of playtime.. is Dedicated to Elementalist. which is Equal to things such as Ranger, Guardian, necromancer, Mesmer.

how does the class had Equal Statistics in playtime.. yet Litterally not seen.

the idea "well easy. No one lets em join their groups" isnt a realistic answer. as far as im aware.. u can go to the LFG.. click a Group and Just join it.. The game doesnt do alot to expose exactly what your playing.. and I've never seen someone on any stream be booted on entry.. they generally get booted after Poor performance.

how many times does a Player have to be kicked because of performance before they give up on trying t odo the content.

Now. sure that may not be anets motives, but they arent exactly telling us their motives either.. its Just one conclusion u could draw. that anet are Pushing players off of Elementalist. to utilise Easier classes to encourage them to rebuild confidence and Tery content again with these easier classes Potientally having higher success therefore keep doing the content.

Other MMORPGS do this.. it isnt "unknown" behaviour in MMORPGS in a identical way to what theyr'e doing here.

ur saying they are nerfign weaver Without justification. which means we both agree here.. it seems our disagreement is Either.. im wording my point terribly... or U disagree with why i think they are doing it.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Daddy.8125

Touchme.1097 · June 8, 2021

5 hours ago, Euclid.2517 said:

A 20% nerf in terms of total damage; even more in real combat since it affects the burst. Most likely you don't have 20 seconds (with 100% burning duration) to fully roll out that damage.

Do you guys (Anet) only do balance based on Snowcrows benchmark? Do you even play your own game? It is really been a while since I see an elementalist dps spec in pugs. Even in speedclear groups going for record, NO ONE WOULD PLAY ELE as dps.

Right now it is scourge wars 2/firebrand wars 2 in PVE.

Firebrand has 40k+ benchmark too, even by afking for 3 second during rotation. Yes, it is not listed on snowcrows. But I will kindly show it to Anet. https://youtu.be/_FZKHq0YU9A

Radiance is broken. F1 can get reset very often, resulting in even higher damage in real combat. Plus all other tomes/aegis spams. High Self Quickness uptime. Can take elite mantras for group stab, for fast phase situation like fractal.

DPS Scourge is fully ranged. With barrier spam. Epidemic. Give decent group might. It is just so good and tempting to stack scourge atm.

Weaver is fully dps spec. No support. Most squishy. No range (except scepter variant). Requires PERFECT BOON. Yet still not outperforming in terms of damage, which is the only thing it does.

Anet, Please check out this video from MightyTeapot. He explains things really well.

https://youtu.be/5-BiK7uyKrA

----------------------------

Unrelated notes: Please buff condi holo too. It is falling behind when all other condi spec is strengthened. Well, I know everyone play fb/rev/scourge etc., but Anet, you said want to buff class that are used less often, didn't you? 🙂

I guess this is another message from Anet to remind us that we have chosen the wrong Scholar profession and we should have picked Mesmer or Necromancer in character creation instead of Elementalist.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Touchme.1097

Zhaid Zhem.6508 · June 8, 2021

14 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So if it was any other day, you'd be fine with it? Somehow I doubt that.

...day "as good" as any other? I don't know. They decided they want to touch it a little, so they did. Lets not pretend you have a problem with the date of the change lol. And what you wrote at the start of the post is exactly what is funny (or sad) about some of the people in this community -you don't care what and how much, but IT'S A NERF so IT'S UNACCEPTABLE!!111

uh.

Now that's just a lie.

Yeah

I would say they have a direction or something. It would have been intended for the balance; buff Elements of Rage, nerf signet to balance. I wouldn't say it would be fair, or balanced, but it would been part of their plan for the big balance update.

There is no more elementalis than before 11 may

There is no condi weaver in raids because it's just trash for most of bosses and too complicated for the others for most of players, and everyone was enjoying staff mesmer, scourge, ren ... you can't say the opposite. "Ah but I have seen weavers in DRM and some in pugs fractal" Yeah yeah, if you wan I lie. What's the ratio compared to FB ? Scourges ? In raids ?

And same for pvp.

So there is no reaction, there is no return on elementalist; there was no reason to* nerf elementalist one month after. It's just 100% free.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

Sobx.1758 · June 8, 2021

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You don't find it even a little frustrating that petty, meaningless nerfs like this somehow make their way into a patch

If it's a mostly meaningless nerf then I don't see the reason to cry about it, which is why I find it hard to treat threads like this one completely seriously. What this change does exactly? Slightly lower dmg and basically more spread-out dmg from a one-button relatively high condi application, so it lowers the condi burst, right? I, personally, just don't have a problem with that.

Quote

while issues repeatedly discussed on this forum continue to go unaddressed?

Yes, I don't like this. But for me these two things are disconnected and if I'll want to complain about something, I'll complain about unresolved issues, NOT about small nerfs while pretending it kills the class or w/e. That's the difference between what you say here and what some of the people reacting to this nerf do.

Quote

I've championed this class more than most and have shown other players plenty of good reasons to play it and I find it frustrating.

I agree that overally you're doing good job with helping people getting to know ele and easing them into the class.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Sobx.1758

Zhaid Zhem.6508 · June 8, 2021

11 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

are u forgetting may 11th Nerfed Power Weaver for no reason at all?... or is the fact it brought life to condi Weaver ment people overlooked this.

There are lots of conspiracies to exactly what anet are doing.. but theres a Motive behind it.. no one Randomly Nerfs for 0 reason. theres always a Reason. weather its a good or bad reason.. theres a Reason.

and Weaver by metrics and statistics is Proven to be very played.. now u have to ask urself. Why is Ele as Popular as necro in Playtime, yet isnt seen Near as much as Necro?.. this is a question Anet will also be asking... this is a player reaction.. a Reaction showing Plenty play this Class yet NO ONE goes any further with the class or remaisn gated at a very low content level with 0 attempt of pushing further.

Now.. my thought isnt "they nerf elementalist because of Reaction".. im saying they "Nerfed Elementalist to Push people OFF PLAYING ELEMENTALIST". i used the benchmark as a Example of Why people could have Rolled the Classed.. it was 1 of 5 Examples i gave to exactly what coulda encouraged someone to roll Elementalist.

12.5% of playtime.. is Dedicated to Elementalist. which is Equal to things such as Ranger, Guardian, necromancer, Mesmer.

how does the class had Equal Statistics in playtime.. yet Litterally not seen.

the idea "well easy. No one lets em join their groups" isnt a realistic answer. as far as im aware.. u can go to the LFG.. click a Group and Just join it.. The game doesnt do alot to expose exactly what your playing.. and I've never seen someone on any stream be booted on entry.. they generally get booted after Poor performance.

how many times does a Player have to be kicked because of performance before they give up on trying t odo the content.

Now. sure that may not be anets motives, but they arent exactly telling us their motives either.. its Just one conclusion u could draw. that anet are Pushing players off of Elementalist. to utilise Easier classes to encourage them to rebuild confidence and Tery content again with these easier classes Potientally having higher success therefore keep doing the content.

It buffs condi weaver by less than 3%.

Other wise it's still the same traits, the same skills, the same rotation, the same (inexistant) support, sustain ...

So no. There is still no reaction.

Still "reaction" are not the reason why they nerfed signet of fire.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

Infusion.7149 · June 8, 2021

34 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

i did try this.. i got to 28k DPS on Condi Weaver on the Golem.. but as Far as im aware thats actually a Mile behind where it Should be benching.. so my DPS Will be lower in a live raid by default.

i heard hybrid Weaver is also abit easier to play also isnt it? Apprantly less boon requiring too.

Neither is something I would I recommend though as they use more than 2 attunements.

The places where condi weaver are used are usually high pressure fights (Twin Largos, SH, Matthias) so it's a lot more stressful to run it than say condi scourge for example.

If you want to simplify things for power builds I would look at the damage log and leave out the bits that are basically less than 2% of the damage , then test that. For condition builds it's more convoluted due to how things are calculated. Power weaver also happens to only use two attunements making it closer to a normal spec with 2 weapons.

My recommendation of marauder pieces til you get the rotation and movement down better stands though. I'm pretty sure people will forgive the ~2K DPS loss if you can actually have a reliable damage uptime. Everywhere you see a build ask for spotter (100 precision) you can slot in marauder pieces to hit crit cap instead. A 14K HP ele is basically on par with staff daredevil or firebrand with quickness and you make small amounts of barrier. For fractals master's fortitude is actually recommended over superior elements. Likewise, because there's not much of a timer on normal fractals, giving up some damage (not everything) is not going to hamper you massively.

Mastery of a class regardless of which spec it is more important than chasing the DPS benchmark especially in fractals, as evidenced by the reapers , soulbeasts, and berserker warriors I met this past week doing far less damage than my alac and sometimes less than harrier healbrand. Especially in low tier fractals (which you seem worried about and shouldn't be), it's more of whether you collectively can actually kill things in a reasonable timeframe (<10 min per fractal with PUG groups) rather than getting top DPS which is why boon supports with damage such as CQB or alac are actually better there.

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

1 minute ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

It buffs condi weaver by less than 3%.

Other wise it's still the same traits, the same skills, the same rotation, the same (inexistant) support, sustain .

u get my point here however.

what im stating is power weaver was nerfed for no reason realistically also.. during a time that ele was Also just as Unpopular in raids/fractal content.

Basically what im stating is. Statistics Say theres almost just as many elementalists being active as Necros.. or People as a whole playing as much elementalist as Necromancer, based on that, theres a Reason why The numbers as u go upwards in content difficulty Lean so far one way.. instead of retaining its base values.

a Idea to why this is. could be difficulty.. whjere necromancer is a Easier choice.. it was Easier to focus on mechanics and not the class gameplay, therefore the person got further into the game thanks to a easier experience.. where the Elementalist hit a brick wall and is Still stuck beneath because they donty have those same conviences.

now if thats true, Anet may take those numbers and statistics. and nerf elementalist, to encourage players to play a Different class, which may then give them those same conviences the first necromancer players had and Get past where there stuck and therefore go upwards.

Puck.3697 · June 8, 2021

5 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Mastery of a class regardless of which spec it is more important than chasing the DPS benchmark especially in fractals, as evidenced by the reapers , soulbeasts, and berserker warriors I met this past week doing far less damage than my alac and sometimes less than harrier healbrand. Especially in low tier fractals (which you seem worried about and shouldn't be), it's more of whether you collectively can actually kill things in a reasonable timeframe (<10 min per fractal with PUG groups) rather than getting top DPS which is why boon supports with damage such as CQB or alac are actually better there.

that is True.. i saw a Reaper do 6k DPS in a Fractal in a Streamers group.

as i say i've done alot of PvP with it.. and im going upwards in it.. so im fairly used to Attunement swapping at a Fast pace and Where exactly my abilities are.

however as far as i've been told... Weavers basically after a time start getting 1 shot if they make mistakes... Certain Mechanics will just outright kill you if u dont react fast enough. it has a Large requirement as far as Alacrity uptime is as Weave Self doesnt work quite at optimal State without alacrity uptime.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Daddy.8125

Why nerf a spec that does not exist in PVE?

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