Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Did Joko look at Zhaitan and thought to himself: "lmao noob"?


Recommended Posts

Joko could resurrect himself, until his magic was devoured. Zhaitan was never capable of that feat. So much for the Elder Dragon of undeath and necromancy. 

If I were Joko, I know I'd be dabbing on Zhaitan and telling him to L2P.. 

 

Thoughts?

  • Haha 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

Joko could resurrect himself, until his magic was devoured. Zhaitan was never capable of that feat. So much for the Elder Dragon of undeath and necromancy. 

If I were Joko, I know I'd be dabbing on Zhaitan and telling him to L2P.. 

 

Thoughts?

Or Zhaitan could have unbound Joko’s magic and become immortal itself.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yes but it wouldn't change the fact that a mere human achieved a better understanding and mastery over Death than the Death dragon himself. Zhaitan is laaaaame. Boooh. Praise Joko.

Edited by Aodlop.1907
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a shame that we never got to learn more about how Joko became the way he is. I think it's presumed that a Djinn granted him his immortality, but it is pretty weird to think that a lowly Djinn could grant a being so much control over versus an elder dragon of death. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

It is a shame that we never got to learn more about how Joko became the way he is. I think it's presumed that a Djinn granted him his immortality, but it is pretty weird to think that a lowly Djinn could grant a being so much control over versus an elder dragon of death. 

Abaddon gifted Joko his powers, Zhaitan doesn't have to be able to resurrect itself in order to be an Elder Dragon of Undeath.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Citation needed.


His imagination, best I can tell.

Unless I missed something we never got any explanation and only had minor hints here pointing toward the Djinn theory.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Citation needed.


Oh, I see. He's referring to the scriptures of Abaddon that Joko had stashed. But one of them is stated to just be a map to a "powerful wish granting Djinn." So, kind of but not really.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bast.7253 said:

Unless I missed something we never got any explanation and only had minor hints here pointing toward the Djinn theory.

In GW1, ascension ghosts tell us that the scriptures of Abaddon were used by Joko as tools to inflict great suffering on them and the people of Elona. The scriptures were something that Joko found (and sealed away) while he was tidying up a corner of the Desolation to build his bone palace. One of these contained location data for an extremely powerful Djinn that supposedly only granted a single wish per century.

 

There is no confirmation that Joko ever looked for the Djinn or wished for anything, but the idea that he did seems like the most solid bet for how he got powers strong enough to override dragon corruption and quite literally cheat death. It'd be nice to know for sure, but I guess I'm comfortable enough assuming that's what happened.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Citation needed.

Sure, I will have a look at all the information gathered from playing all the GW2 LW and expansion stories including the insane number of achievements done and books red. I may be right, who knows. Who else do you think could have given Joko his magic and immortality?

There is no doubt there are a lot of things pointing out on the mysterious Djinn granting Joko a wish, as Joko is also classified as a mummy whish is an Elemental.

The Vizier of Orr became a Lich Lord after using scrolls of Dark Magic and the lore in this case seems to point out to Abaddon and his magic.

Edited by Touchme.1097
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

Sure, I will have a look at all the information gathered from playing all the GW2 LW and expansion stories including the insane number of achievements done and books red. I may be right, who knows. Who else do you think could have given Joko his magic and immortality?

There is no doubt there are a lot of things pointing out on the mysterious Djinn granting Joko a wish, as Joko is also classified as a mummy whish is an Elemental.

The Vizier of Orr became a Lich Lord after using scrolls of Dark Magic and the lore in this case seems to point out to Abaddon and his magic.

Translation: it's a head canon you made up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Translation: it's a head canon you made up.

Being there no official answer from the writers I can only assume by exclusion, the likelihood of my claims being right are acceptably high. This is how I work with lore at the moment.

Consider that there has been a Lich already, Vizier Khilbron became a lich through Abaddon's magic. 

I don't think a Djinn is powerful enough to equal the power of Abaddon by granting a wish.

EoD could offer us some answers to confirm either one or the other theory, who knows?

There has been a discussion on Joko already in the past, here is the link: Who, or what, is Joko? - Lore - Guild Wars 2 Forums

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/10/2021 at 7:06 PM, Touchme.1097 said:

Who else do you think could have given Joko his magic and immortality?

A wish granting djinn.

Dhuum.

Whatever source Zoldark got his lichdom powers from.

Whatever source Mazdak got his lichdom powers from.

Whatever source Fendi Nin got his lidhcom powers from.

 

On 6/10/2021 at 7:06 PM, Touchme.1097 said:

 Joko is also classified as a mummy whish is an Elemental.

I'm going to assume you're referring to the Carven Effigies since they are elementals by mechanics, however, the other awakened are mummies and are not elementals. Joko is an undead, not an elemental.

On 6/10/2021 at 7:06 PM, Touchme.1097 said:

The Vizier of Orr became a Lich Lord after using scrolls of Dark Magic and the lore in this case seems to point out to Abaddon and his magic.

I'd stress that the Lost Scrolls are not Abaddon's magic. They're magical scrolls from before Abaddon spread magic to the world from the Bloodstone. The origin of the Lost Scrolls are, ultimately, unknown. Furthermore, it is unspecified if the Lost Scrolls are what turned Khilbron into a lich - we don't know how he became a lich. It should be noted that a Vizier of Orr with powerful necromancy who turned Fendi Nin into something of a lich, far too similar to Khilbron's story to be a coincidence, was around in 1016 AE - this is 55 years before Khilbron read from the Lost Scrolls and caused the Cataclysm.

 

So technically speaking, Abaddon did not turn Khilbron into a lich. He - via his servants - directed Khilbron to the Lost Scrolls which may or may not have made Khilbron a lich.

 

Besides, if Abaddon's magic turned Khilbron into a lich, why was Khilbron the one who turned The Hunter into a psuedo-lich and not Abaddon or some other agent of Abaddon? Clearly, since Khilbron can bind The Hunter's soul to its bodies (aka what distinguishes a lich from standard undead), something on par to The Cataclysm isn't strictly necessary, so why didn't Abaddon have an army of liches if he could just make one?

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

A wish granting djinn.

Dhuum.

Whatever source Zoldark got his lichdom powers from.

Whatever source Mazdak got his lichdom powers from.

Whatever source Fendi Nin got his lidhcom powers from.

 

I'm going to assume you're referring to the Carven Effigies since they are elementals by mechanics, however, the other awakened are mummies and are not elementals. Joko is an undead, not an elemental.

I'd stress that the Lost Scrolls are not Abaddon's magic. They're magical scrolls from before Abaddon spread magic to the world from the Bloodstone. The origin of the Lost Scrolls are, ultimately, unknown. Furthermore, it is unspecified if the Lost Scrolls are what turned Khilbron into a lich - we don't know how he became a lich. It should be noted that a Vizier of Orr with powerful necromancy who turned Fendi Nin into something of a lich, far too similar to Khilbron's story to be a coincidence, was around in 1016 AE - this is 55 years before Khilbron read from the Lost Scrolls and caused the Cataclysm.

 

So technically speaking, Abaddon did not turn Khilbron into a lich. He - via his servants - directed Khilbron to the Lost Scrolls which may or may not have made Khilbron a lich.

 

Besides, if Abaddon's magic turned Khilbron into a lich, why was Khilbron the one who turned The Hunter into a psuedo-lich and not Abaddon or some other agent of Abaddon? Clearly, since Khilbron can bind The Hunter's soul to its bodies (aka what distinguishes a lich from standard undead), something on par to The Cataclysm isn't strictly necessary, so why didn't Abaddon have an army of liches if he could just make one?

Hi Konig, you have always been very knowledgeable about Guild Wars lore but I would exclude Dhumm's involvement, because the fallen God was strictly against undeath. Thanks for your thoughts

Dhuum - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

 

The mummy/elemental reference can be found in the GW1 wiki on Joko's page.

Edited by Touchme.1097
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

Hi Konig, you have always been very knowledgeable about Guild Wars lore but I would exclude Dhumm's involvement, because the fallen God was strictly against undeath. Thanks for your thoughts

Dhuum - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

 

The mummy/elemental reference can be found in the GW1 wiki on Joko's page.

Yes, however it should be noted that Aurene can use god powers from fallen gods, where most of the time, when dragons absorb magic they usually drain the essence and not respected ability or properties. The fact that Aurene is immortal, could point to some lost ability that Joko located involving Dhuum, from the time of when the Gods first walked in Tyria.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

Hi Konig, you have always been very knowledgeable about Guild Wars lore but I would exclude Dhumm's involvement, because the fallen God was strictly against undeath. Thanks for your thoughts

Dhuum - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

 

The mummy/elemental reference can be found in the GW1 wiki on Joko's page.

Counter argument:

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skeleton_of_Dhuum

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Minion_of_Dhuum

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Champion_of_Dhuum

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dhuum's_Enforcer

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dhuum's_Messenger

 

It seems that either Dhuum's lightened his code during imprisonment, or has been very hypocritical about the use of undead and cheating death - in a "I can do it but you cannot" kind of forbiddence.

 

As to the reference on Joko's page, I did a search and there is zero use of "elemental" or "element" on Joko's surprisingly highly lacking GW1W article. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Palawa_Joko

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Tyson.5160 said:

Yes, however it should be noted that Aurene can use god powers from fallen gods, where most of the time, when dragons absorb magic they usually drain the essence and not respected ability or properties. The fact that Aurene is immortal, could point to some lost ability that Joko located involving Dhuum, from the time of when the Gods first walked in Tyria.

TBH, Aurene's immortality from Joko's magic is a huge anomaly that can have many possibilities.

For example, it's very plausible that the reason why Aurene was able to use Joko's magic after consuming it was because she had so little other magic that it was enough to make an influence, and over time she would assimulate it like Primordus has done to Mordremoth's and Zhaitan's by the time of IBS (we don't know if she can still keep herself alive using Joko's magic after all).

In the end it was a poorly explained bit that is yet another case in Tom Abernathy's claim of "lore isn't important, characters are" without realizing that you can't have good character development without consistencies and foundations in lore.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Counter argument:

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skeleton_of_Dhuum

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Minion_of_Dhuum

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Champion_of_Dhuum

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dhuum's_Enforcer

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dhuum's_Messenger

 

It seems that either Dhuum's lightened his code during imprisonment, or has been very hypocritical about the use of undead and cheating death - in a "I can do it but you cannot" kind of forbiddence.

 

As to the reference on Joko's page, I did a search and there is zero use of "elemental" or "element" on Joko's surprisingly highly lacking GW1W article. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Palawa_Joko

You are right and I agree on all of that, although your counter argument doesn't imply that Dhuum would have given Joko his powers and immortality, undeath only applies to Dhuum's minions. There is no source claiming that Joko would be a minion of Dhuum, another point against this assumpion would be the limited amount of background story we know about Joko's past.

 

About the reference you are also right, I have done a mistake in there, the lack of elemental on mummies however removes further the likelihood that Joko's immortality could have been granted by a Djinn, in my opinion. Not that it would have been of any relevance anyway.

Edited by Touchme.1097
grammar and wording corrections
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...