Ashes of the Just

[MrTJpwnz.4710]

As pointed out on this forum, reddit and some of the bigger community discords the 'fix' to Ashes of the Just didn't work. The ashes stealing obviously needs fixing as since the changes to Ashes having a interval stealing ashes is so much more common, and it was already fairly common (Im talking mid fight procs rn, precasts always has ashes stealing). The fact that heal firebrands can ruin the groups dps by using Ashes (while he thinks that he's helping the group with some extra damage) very easily is terrible game design, and I think its a good thing that it was atleast mentioned in the patch notes, meaning that Anet agrees with this fact, eventho the fix didn't work (or didn't make it into the game yet).

 

But even if this fix comes into the game, Ashes will still be in a terrible spot in my opinion. You will get problems with stacking firebrands, people's damage being delayed because they happen to play with another firebrand in their group, and it gets worse if a heal firebrand throws in their Ashes somewhere inbetween. I don't think playing with the same classes should be punished, nor embraced as we saw for a way too long time with Pchrono's stacking Time Warps in raids for example or Scourge stacking with Epidemic.

 

Another issue is that Ashes damage wise is so busted right now that it is worth it to AFK in tome with 8 pages trait and do alot more damage than a rotation that doesn't stop attacking (5 pages or 8 pages). I think this is flawed, and is something that shouldn't be encouraged. Prepatch you had the option to fill in the gaps with SoJ and mantra recharging, but well that got changed. Don't get me wrong, I think 8 pages trait is fun and should have its place, but I don't think its current implementation is the right way to do this.

 

So Ashes will still be a problem once the fix goes through as mentioned before. A possible solution would be to have separate intervals per caster, which would solve some of the problems. Now I can see that Anet is not really in favor of this change as it might allow for too much burst in condi firebrand stacked fractal groups, might be hard for them to implement, and it would also not solve the other issue with the 8 pages AFK rotation. I would be in favor for a rework of the skill, something that does not involve a buff to allies so you are not punished for playing with other firebrands. The skill should not do as much damage as Ashes does right now or else it'll obviously not solve the issue with the 8 pages rotation (haven't checked numbers but 60k-70k DPiSCT sounds good enough to fix it, for comparison right now its like 115k DPiSCT). In order to compensate this loss in damage other skills should be buffed, like torch 5 which is not too great right now.

 

I think there's alot of problems with firebrand (Too easy quickness access, torch 4 bug, other boon/support access just to name some things), but imo the whole Ashes situation has been feeling the worst to me for a long time.

[Zethrul.5031]

Interesting info!  I'm a casual Condi Firebrand player, and I had no idea about camping the tome Ashes skill for max damage.  That's funny, but I agree a bit silly of a way to play.  Do you know if the damage is calculated from the Ashes caster or from the player with the Ashes buff?  I can't quite tell how that works.

 

Thanks for the informative post! 

[MrTJpwnz.4710]

11 minutes ago, Zethrul.5031 said:

Interesting info!  I'm a casual Condi Firebrand player, and I had no idea about camping the tome Ashes skill for max damage.  That's funny, but I agree a bit silly of a way to play.  Do you know if the damage is calculated from the Ashes caster or from the player with the Ashes buff?  I can't quite tell how that works.

 

Thanks for the informative post! 

It depends, if person A casts ashes on people, then a second person B casts ashes on the group (while the stacks of person A are still on the group), all stacks from person A and B will use the stats from person A (i.e. first to apply). In general ashes use the stats of the firebrand that casts it. But these Ashes can be stolen if someone else uses Ashes before you, so if a heal firebrand uses ashes first, then a condi firebrand, all the ashes will be with the heal firebrands stats. Other way works aswell, if condi firebrand uses it first then heal brand, all the stacks will use the condi firebrands stats.

[WindBlade.8749]

1 minute ago, MrTJpwnz.4710 said:

It depends, if person A casts ashes on people, then a second person B casts ashes on the group (while the stacks of person A are still on the group), all stacks from person A and B will use the stats from person A (i.e. first to apply). In general ashes use the stats of the firebrand that casts it. But these Ashes can be stolen if someone else uses Ashes before you, so if a heal firebrand uses ashes first, then a condi firebrand, all the ashes will be with the heal firebrands stats. Other way works aswell, if condi firebrand uses it first then heal brand, all the stacks will use the condi firebrands stats.

not anymore ash stealing got fixed

[Zethrul.5031]

Oh wow!  That's good to know.  Thanks!

[cat.8975]

2 hours ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

not anymore ash stealing got fixed

They said they fixed it, but it's still broken. The fix either wasn't applied in this update, or is bugged and not working.

[supporthero.4520]

On 6/9/2021 at 4:12 PM, MrTJpwnz.4710 said:

 I think there's alot of problems with firebrand (Too easy quickness access, torch 4 bug, other boon/support access just to name some things), but imo the whole Ashes situation has been feeling the worst to me for a long time.

Very well explained. 

Ashes of the Just deserves attention.

I really hope a rework of the skill could create an interesting rotation for both 5 and 8 pages.

 

It always felt weird to me that the most damage from Tome of Justice should come from giving allies attacks that apply burning. I would love to see a rework of the skill or a nerf and switching the skill 5 spot out with a stronger version of another Tome Skill.

[MrTJpwnz.4710]

10 hours ago, supporthero.4520 said:

Very well explained. 

Ashes of the Just deserves attention.

I really hope a rework of the skill could create an interesting rotation for both 5 and 8 pages.

 

It always felt weird to me that the most damage from Tome of Justice should come from giving allies attacks that apply burning. I would love to see a rework of the skill or a nerf and switching the skill 5 spot out with a stronger version of another Tome Skill.

Yep hope it will still keep 8 pages viable somehow, as the build/idea behind it is fun, the implementation just sucks rn. I don't think they should just nerf Ashes and replace its spot with another tome skill as its essentially still the same problem, just less impactful. They they can make some unique tome skills that are different than the other tome skills.