Superspeed(and bunch of other things): do they even play this game at ANet?

[Zychuu.7294]

How does that even makes any sense? 

https://imgur.com/a/uw5LHgT

 

(yes, this does in fact limit you to 10s on cast)

 

Not gonna lie, lately, when I'm reading the patch notes, I have a feeling that no one working on skills actually plays this game, or it is like one person who has no chance of remembering everything alone. They tunnel vision to introduce a change without really understanding what it can cause or how it relates to all the other classes and mechanics in all different kinds of content and mechanics the game is full of. And then absolutely forget to actually implement it properly in all the places it applies to, like with Cardinal Adina hitting you with "resolution", because who cares that you got rid of boon you actually use in boss encounters. 

 

One could probably find more similar small things scattered around the game, and while each one separately is not a big deal obviously, if you play various kinds of content from different 'eras' you quickly realise, how inconsistent the game can be in it's mechanics, names, what can be blocked, on what stability works etc...

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

*Sigh*

You lost 2 seconds of superspeed for the ability to stack it instead of a new instance replacing the old.  It can't be corrupted, stripped, or otherwise and it makes cripple, chill, and such less effective.

[TheDeafGuy.4519]

I absolutely agree 100% with the idea of Anet not thinking about the overall effects of balance changes on every aspect of the game.  They definitely need to work on that better before implementing balance changes as things have been ruined, such as boss encounters, classes, and abilities. 

 

Things that come to mind is: condi herald resistance changes and not being able to survive , retaliation changes on bosses being meaningless or getting kill credit in wvw, swiftness getting capped at 30s for skills that grant more than 30s (recently fixed), cc doing no damage but had intended effects to do damage or more damage  based on a situation (headbutt with stability, or gravity well), 300s skill traitlines not getting touched, and I'm sure many other issues I'm missing.  

 

Onto the topic of superspeed, I 100% understand your frustration, I do think the change will do more good than harm.  I found it a little annoying having to time superspeed (personal opinion), when it comes to min maxing, you either dropped superspeed for a second or less or overlapped it a second or less.  Anyhow, it was inefficient.  Allowing a 10s cap of superspeed that can stack is perfect as most superspeed skills give about 3s to 7s. (rune of zephryte) Meaning it is still possible to overstack and lose superspeed, but I do feel this change is more of a quality of life change.  I think that 12 seconds of superspeed is a little absurd, but I understand it's not consistent with the balance changes.

 

 

[Zychuu.7294]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:01 PM, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

*Sigh*

You lost 2 seconds of superspeed for the ability to stack it instead of a new instance replacing the old.  It can't be corrupted, stripped, or otherwise and it makes cripple, chill, and such less effective.

 

You are completely missing my point.  It's not about what was buffed or nerfed, not really about superspeed in particular. It's about how they don't take their time to properly implement the changes they are coming up with, to be able to apply them in all places they make a difference.  Superspeed was just an example of how they changed a thing without understanding all the places it affects. If they actually did know what they are doing, they would just nerf proper skills/traits so that such thing like "12s capped at 10s" in one tick didn't happen in the first place. 

 

If you have examples showing, that they can't graps the full context what their changes can actually affect in such big the game the gw2 is, you have no reason to trust there is any reasonable plan behind most of the other changes that do seem to have some sense by accident. 

[Infusion.7149]

You're right, quickness on gyros should have been cut in WvW. They even said that WvW scrapper is dominant themselves.

Complaining about 2s of lost superspeed on a utility is kind of petty when there's a larger problem.

June 8, addressed Purity of Purpose:

Quote

With regard to WvW, we are making targeted changes to two pain points: the overperforming engineer trait Purity of Purpose, and the druid skill Glyph of Unity. We’ve long seen Purity of Purpose be the dominating support trait for large group play in WvW, with its ability to quickly and continually stack all boons in an area. In this update, Purity of Purpose has an internal cooldown of 2 seconds per affected target. This means it can be triggered on the same target again every other second, such as on alternating pulses of Cleansing Field, but not in shorter intervals.

May 25 hotfix, nothing to scale it back in WvW but more quickness was added:

Quote

We've loved seeing the scrapper quickness builds that the community has put together so far. In this follow-up tuning update, we're increasing the base quickness applied by Kinetic Accelerators so that aspiring quick scrappers will have more flexibility in their choice of utility skills.

May 2021 PvE update:

Quote

While the Scrapper can be played as an effective healer, it hasn't had access to the offensive boons it needs to be truly valuable as a support role in group PvE content. As a result, we've seen the Scrapper get very little play outside of WvW.

 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Change it to a proper boon so it can be stripped, then increase the limit to 15sec. Make it a potential liability like every other boon to balance it.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Infusion.7149]

48 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Change it to a proper boon so it can be stripped, then increase the limit to 15sec. Make it a potential liability like every other boon to balance it.

Then every duration would need to be cut by half. Alacrity used to not be a boon after all (before 2018).

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Then every duration would need to be cut by half. Alacrity used to not be a boon after all (before 2018).

Alacrity doesn't result in double boon uptime, its more like 133%. A slight shave to all durations would more than account for it in large-scale gameplay.

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Alacrity doesn't result in double boon uptime, its more like 133%. A slight shave to all durations would more than account for it in large-scale gameplay.

No I meant superspeed would need to be cut in half (minstrel scrapper near 100% boon duration). Superspeed on gyros should have been cut already in WvW.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

21 hours ago, Zychuu.7294 said:

 

You are completely missing my point.  It's not about what was buffed or nerfed, not really about superspeed in particular. It's about how they don't take their time to properly implement the changes they are coming up with, to be able to apply them in all places they make a difference.  Superspeed was just an example of how they changed a thing without understanding all the places it affects. If they actually did know what they are doing, they would just nerf proper skills/traits so that such thing like "12s capped at 10s" in one tick didn't happen in the first place. 

 

If you have examples showing, that they can't graps the full context what their changes can actually affect in such big the game the gw2 is, you have no reason to trust there is any reasonable plan behind most of the other changes that do seem to have some sense by accident. 

No, I see your point.  It's  a stupid point.  What's to say that they didn't realize this would reduce the abilities that stack massive amounts of superspeed, but went with the change anyways because it made utilizing skills with superspeed actually fun to use when not constantly over-writing each other or just flat out not working?

You do realize that, before the change to superspeed, you had to juggle abilities just right as to not waste uptime and there were the frequent problems where the following application of superspeed at 9 seconds wouldn't over-write the 1 second duration that still remains.  This change made it actually reasonable to upkeep superspeed across all team members, and you're here crying about what's, at worst, a side-grade.

[XenesisII.1540]

Guilds want super soldiers on the field.

Anet wants to keep these guilds happy.

Next we'll get stability is non strippable effect like superspeed.

Next expansion we'll get a new superspeed that also keeps the speed for when you're backpeddling, strafing left, or strafing right.

Later in the expansion they'll be requested to just give everyone automatic stability in combat.

After that guilds will request help for getting one pushed bombed down on their stealth pushes, so anet will get gyros to also proc damage immunity for 10s with the superspeed, so that all zergs can survive the first aoe hits on each other.

Meanwhile pugs and roamers will sit on the walls eating popcorn watching groups go around in circles doing nothing to each other.

Wvw will finally be balanced.

 

[Jski.6180]

Super speed should be a boon and conversion / corruption boons/condi tables need to be nerfed not just one version of it for one class icd on passive effects never work well or right.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 6/10/2021 at 5:34 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

No I meant superspeed would need to be cut in half (minstrel scrapper near 100% boon duration). Superspeed on gyros should have been cut already in WvW.

I misunderstood your wording since you used Alacrity as an example, which only slightly increases the uptime of boons via its cooldown reduction, not realising you were referring to actual Boon Duration that can be had from gear.

 

That said, its hard to say whether thats neccessary or not, because one of the main complaints about Boon Duration & Condition Duration to begin with is that they're borderline useless in WvW because actual coverage is determined by reapplications due to the presence of strips/corrupts and cleanses etc.

 

Minstrel's is taken over Nomad's not for the Concentration, but because Nomad's has Toughness as its main stat instead of Healing Power.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Gotejjeken.1267]

The answer is no, no anet hasn't played their game for a long time. 

 

Current engineer though may be the single most broken thing in the game in any mode.  I mean just the linked skill alone gives all that by default and it only gets better if you take other traits that medkit scrapper uses.  Add to that the fact you can create an engineer build for pretty much anything and it will be top tier is pretty amazing.  

 

As far as superspeed, it's interesting because they essentially are doubling down on it.  It isn't a boon so is untouchable (not that boon corrupts or strips really even work anymore), and it is stackable so you essentially can pay zero attention and cap it.  There really isn't much explanation for this other than 'quality of life change' when it's much more than that.  

 

Though if there really isn't a balance team and the new expansion comes, what does that mean for all the new specs? Other than obvious best in slot power creep for at least a year after the expansion.  

[Infusion.7149]

10 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

I misunderstood your wording since you used Alacrity as an example, which only slightly increases the uptime of boons via its cooldown reduction, not realising you were referring to actual Boon Duration that can be had from gear.

 

That said, its hard to say whether thats neccessary or not, because one of the main complaints about Boon Duration & Condition Duration to begin with is that they're borderline useless in WvW because actual coverage is determined by reapplications due to the presence of strips/corrupts and cleanses etc.

 

Minstrel's is taken over Nomad's not for the Concentration, but because Nomad's has Toughness as its main stat instead of Healing Power.

Unless you are running renegades in group play (which lose 33% crit chance after dodging) there really isn't much application of alacrity outside of converting chill.

Superspeed on the other hand is rampant right now , more than alacrity ever was short of when WvW boon chrono was a thing a few years ago. The difference is superspeed is reapplied often and when it matters the most (when you are cleansing/healing/finishing or ressing). Superspeed is fine when applied sparingly (see herald/tempest) but when it is doled out in bulk with skills that already have quite strong effects (i.e. Purge Gyro, Sneak Gyro, Bulwark Gyro , or even Shredder Gyro used on DPS scrapper when paired with fields) it becomes basically game mode breaking. Right now gyros are putting out three effects at once, sometimes four if it combos with a field or finisher.

Consider that the recent application of 2.5s quickness on the gyros due to superspeed also makes healing on heal scrapper far stronger than before May 11 patch when it already was the strongest healer in WVW when boons are up.

"Strips/corrupts" is a moot point because of the amount of boons herald spits out every 3s on top of any conversions or from guardians let alone other classes. In order for boons to be removed there would need to be a heavy boon removal skill such as devouring darkness, break enchantments, winds of disenchantment with enchantment collapse, absorption sigil used on spellbreakers, banish enchantment, or the pulsing ones such as Null Field / Well of Corruption which are rendered far less effective when an enemy is extremely mobile. Boon rip that is one deep is not going to cut it, especially if it corrupts boons since purity of purpose still has a 2s cooldown which means every other pulse. I guess it's also funny that engineer has stronger boon removal in competitive modes if you choose to run throw mine, it's only 1 boon removed in PVE but 3 in WVW/PVP.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Astralporing.1957]

On 6/10/2021 at 9:17 PM, Infusion.7149 said:

Complaining about 2s of lost superspeed on a utility is kind of petty when there's a larger problem

Again, not the point. There should never be a situation where single use of a skill gives more than the cap. In such a case, the skill should just give a cap, without that whole math gymnastics of (get 12 s of effect, but no more than 10s).

Basically, if they've introduced the cap that is lower than what some skills/traits give, then they should adjust those traits to give the right amount. Not doing that shows either laziness or lack of knowledge.

[Kodama.6453]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Again, not the point. There should never be a situation where single use of a skill gives more than the cap. In such a case, the skill should just give a cap, without that whole math gymnastics of (get 12 s of effect, but no more than 10s).

Basically, if they've introduced the cap that is lower than what some skills/traits give, then they should adjust those traits to give the right amount. Not doing that shows either laziness or lack of knowledge.

On the other hand, this would mean to nerf traits "just because".

 

Reducing the superspeed provided from the scrapper minor trait is a nerf for every other healing skill, except med kit, since these can use the on healing skill and on healing toolbelt skill portions seperatedly.

 

They could also adjust this case by upping the limit a bit. Make it 12 seconds instead of 10 and you fixed the interaction while not nerfing all the other healing skills.

[Astralporing.1957]

16 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

On the other hand, this would mean to nerf traits "just because".

 

Reducing the superspeed provided from the scrapper minor trait is a nerf for every other healing skill, except med kit, since these can use the on healing skill and on healing toolbelt skill portions seperatedly.

 

They could also adjust this case by upping the limit a bit. Make it 12 seconds instead of 10 and you fixed the interaction while not nerfing all the other healing skills.

Well, yes, when doing stuff like that you usually should put some thought and effort in it instead of just going with the lowest effort approach.

[Redpawa.4108]

On 6/14/2021 at 12:57 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

On the other hand, this would mean to nerf traits "just because".

 

While this is 100% a case of improperly implemented changes, I don't get why everyone keeps calling it a nerf?
Prior to stacking you would only get the 7s anyway because only the biggest stack would apply, Even with zephyrite it was ~9.5s.

[Kodama.6453]

8 hours ago, Redpawa.4108 said:

 

While this is 100% a case of improperly implemented changes, I don't get why everyone keeps calling it a nerf?
Prior to stacking you would only get the 7s anyway because only the biggest stack would apply, Even with zephyrite it was ~9.5s.

Nope.

 

When Anet reworked scrapper to get the minor trait with 7 seconds of self superspeed on toolbelt and 5 seconds of AoE superspeed on heal, they coded a special exception for bandage self.

 

These 2 superspeed didn't overwrite each other, they coded it that way that the scrapper gets 12 seconds of self superspeed and grants 5 seconds of AoE superspeed.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Nope.

 

When Anet reworked scrapper to get the minor trait with 7 seconds of self superspeed on toolbelt and 5 seconds of AoE superspeed on heal, they coded a special exception for bandage self.

 

These 2 superspeed didn't overwrite each other, they coded it that way that the scrapper gets 12 seconds of self superspeed and grants 5 seconds of AoE superspeed.

and 12s of superspeed was too much superspeed apparently.

[Kodama.6453]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

and 12s of superspeed was too much superspeed apparently.

Don't know if this is supposed to be sarcastic or not.

 

If not: why is every other healing skill still allowed to apply 12 seconds of superspeed? The other healing skills have their healing skill and toolbelt skill activates seperated, so they can still get the full 12 seconds superspeed in total by just waiting 2 seconds between the activations of these skills.

 

And there really isn't that much opportunity cost to using something like toss elixir h for the superspeed.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Kodama.6453 said:

Don't know if this is supposed to be sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm mostly. I think it was an intended change honestly. 

Just now, Kodama.6453 said:

If not: why is every other healing skill still allowed to apply 12 seconds of superspeed? The other healing skills have their healing skill and toolbelt skill activates seperated, so they can still get the full 12 seconds superspeed in total by just waiting 2 seconds between the activations of these skills.

 

And there really isn't that much opportunity cost to using something like toss elixir h for the superspeed.

That just goes to show why they shouldn't have made it an exception. I don't see a CD for the trait on the wiki, so what they should have done was put an CD on the heal skill portion of the trait so that if you equipped the med kit the superspeed would activate, and if you camped it through the CD and used one of it's skills you would gain superspeed again. 

[Kodama.6453]

6 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Sarcasm mostly. I think it was an intended change honestly. 

That just goes to show why they shouldn't have made it an exception. I don't see a CD for the trait on the wiki, so what they should have done was put an CD on the heal skill portion of the trait so that if you equipped the med kit the superspeed would activate, and if you camped it through the CD and used one of it's skills you would gain superspeed again. 

I saw this already suggested, but balancing this stuff is kinda weird.

 

In my opinion, they put the AoE superspeed on the healing skill because it means a bigger opportunity cost. If you want to grant superspeed to others using this trait, you have to use the healing skill, even if it might not be the best moment to do so.

 

By putting it on the med kit with a CD, you basically don't have any opportunity cost for using the AoE superspeed anymore.

 

As an engi main, I would like this change, since it would make quickness application as a heal scrapper in PvE alot easier and it would allow me to not use bandage self for the quickness, so I can keep it for when I need the burst healing with medical dispersion field. But I can see why Anet might not want to do that.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

46 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I saw this already suggested, but balancing this stuff is kinda weird.

 

In my opinion, they put the AoE superspeed on the healing skill because it means a bigger opportunity cost. If you want to grant superspeed to others using this trait, you have to use the healing skill, even if it might not be the best moment to do so.

 

By putting it on the med kit with a CD, you basically don't have any opportunity cost for using the AoE superspeed anymore.

 

As an engi main, I would like this change, since it would make quickness application as a heal scrapper in PvE alot easier and it would allow me to not use bandage self for the quickness, so I can keep it for when I need the burst healing with medical dispersion field. But I can see why Anet might not want to do that.

I get where you are coming from, but I think such suggestions like mine have more to do with what is easier to code and not break things. The corner case is Med Kit, because there is only a 1s CD between equipping it and stowing it. But if the trait had a CD of 30s on the heal part (or whatever the minimum heal CD is excluding Med Kit), you would still have some of that opportunity cost.