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DH longbow 5 warding counts at CC or no.

because it's kinda big damage and it's Crowd Control.

 

yet dragon's maw doesnt do damage? which is basically the same effect?

head scratching

Edited by felix.2386
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3 minutes ago, KrHome.1920 said:

The initial damage of hunters ward follows the same rules as other cc skills (0,1 multiplier). The final damage has a big tell and is mechanically like remaining in an AOE field.

why tho, isnt the final hit that forms the trap?

so CC is fine to do damage as long as you do filler hits before in the same skill?

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The wards don't cc you unless you walk into them, and they don't do damage while knocking a target down so the damage and cc components are split. For instance you can't use longbow 5 to interrupt res because the final impact doesn't technically cc. Regardless,  cc doing negligible damage across the board is still a dumb decision and should have never been implemented or at least reverted a long time ago.

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For some reasons there are exceptions. Last week I was memeing with full glass SB and hit 7.3 k with Kick - the follow attack of the GS 4 block (wvw tho). Is that intended? The 0.1 coefficient doesn't apply here )))) 

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2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Stop trying to nerf DH. Stop it.

 

DH needs sustain buffs. Rune Of Stealth God needs review.

 

Get it right.

 

I dislike parroting but this is important. Let's not lose focus here. There's no issue with damage output on DH. The issue is stealth access. If they need sustain to remain viable they should get that. 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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13 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

DH longbow 5 warding counts at CC or no.

because it's kinda big damage and it's Crowd Control.

 

yet dragon's maw doesnt do damage? which is basically the same effect?

head scratching

Dragon's Maw is not the same effect.

 

It CC's on hit.

 

LB5 does not CC on hit. It only CC's if you subsequently walk into the barriers, and guess what, those subsequent hits do no damage.

 

The damage strike and the CC strike are not the same strike. This is like complaining that pistol-whip is a CC that does damage. No, the CC doesn't do damage, only the followup strikes do.

 

The rule is that no single strike should both hard-CC and damage. LB5 does not break this rule.

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11 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

I dislike parroting but this is important. Let's not lose focus here. There's no issue with damage output on DH. The issue is stealth access. If they need sustain to remain viable they should get that. 

Totally agree with this point. I understand Anet's point of "DH is a Glass Cannon high damage" but a bit more of self sustain would do a lot of good to the build variety. 

Still trapper runes needs not to interact with DH, maybe changing the traps to Ward, DH already have a couple of those in the skillset anyway. 

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16 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

The initial damage of hunters ward follows the same rules as other cc skills (0,1 multiplier). The final damage has a big tell and is mechanically like remaining in an AOE field.

Bulls charge. Shield bash, rampage 4, 5, all have huge tells~

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17 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Just give us dmg on cc back. 

 

 

I think they should in part do that, such as adding it back to abilities with long windups and BIG tells or abilities that require getting in close such as a fat chunk of the warriors toolkit, warrior has to get deep in melee and expose himself to do everything and then half his kit is interrupts/CCs which do poopoo damage.

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as Dan said above they should just give CCs back their damage and balance it on a case by case basis.

the abomination patch of feb 2020 was the worst thing to ever happen to this game.

it killed off so many builds, most of which weren't played by very many people anyway.

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If people insist so much for CC to have damage, I want damage to be nullify if Stability is in effect. Getting crit for 5k by something I am meant to counter is stupid.

 

Otherwise nah, I keep seeing it and it's a ridiculous idea to think that giving damage back to CC will solve anything. That's just encouraging the so called spam even more, as a notice people play relatively the same builds and achieve the same results under higher effort.

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Giving dmg back to CCs does not have to be the same implementation as before. Give dmg back, but lower the coefficients in CCs with the least visual "tell". On top of that, make all CCs Unable to Critically Hit which is a common theme for several other skills that exist in many professions. That way,  CC dmg can be accounted as part of a burst and affected by dmg modifiers like might, but it will never critically hit and burst someone as hard as actual skills would. 

 

Hell, even half the dmg of the original CC without crit would be good to be part of a rotation. But that requires a visit to all CC in the game, as well as tweaking them and making them unable to crit, work that I doubt the devs want to commit to.

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(a bit off topic like most answers)

Looking at the current builds and how you can play them I really do not thing damage on cc is as good or necessary as some people think. Anyone should be able to just see how cc is dangerous / impactful as it is.

Edited by aymnad.9023
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Removal of dmg on cc pretty much killed warrior weapon diversity as mace and hammer are now extremely weak. It would be one thing to lower the dmg, but making it deal no dmg at all when entire weapon sets apply cc with almost all their skills feels like a cheap fix.

Kind of like how Firebrand Mantra are now super weak after the last mantra change that didn't intend to nerd them.

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13 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

Removal of dmg on cc pretty much killed warrior weapon diversity as mace and hammer are now extremely weak. It would be one thing to lower the dmg, but making it deal no dmg at all when entire weapon sets apply cc with almost all their skills feels like a cheap fix.

Kind of like how Firebrand Mantra are now super weak after the last mantra change that didn't intend to nerd them.

Hammer has the ability to completely shutdown players while able to hit up to 8k per Fierce Blow, it's in fact able to share a similar playstyle as Core Revenant does which is extremely tanky with all the Weakness.

 

Mace is more Dagger alternative to Core while offering defense skills and sharing skills alike with Hammer but as one handed.

 

Then again what am I saying, people don't care and are thematically obsessed with GS and anything that doesn't conveniently fits it is bad.

 

It's just to say there's a lot of options glanced over because GS this GS that but ironically Fierce Blow is not adrenaline bound, hits just as hard with a different required for extra damage that fits in with the CC complains of not dealing damage after them, provide sustain, cooldown is similar, hammer burst skill is also an AoE with mobility that is more easily landed and can benefit to Cleansing Ire.

 

Just what exactly do players want? I'm confident that there's a lack of will to actually step out of the comfort zone.

Edited by Shao.7236
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6 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Hammer has the ability to completely shutdown players while able to hit up to 8k per Fierce Blow, it's in fact able to share a similar playstyle as Core Revenant does which is extremely tanky with all the Weakness.

 

Mace is more Dagger alternative to Core while offering defense skills and sharing skills alike with Hammer but as one handed.

 

Then again what am I saying, people don't care and are thematically obsessed with GS and anything that doesn't conveniently fits it is bad.

 

It's just to say there's a lot of options glanced over because GS this GS that but ironically Fierce Blow is not adrenaline bound, hits just as hard with a different required for extra damage that fits in with the CC complains of not dealing damage after them, provide sustain, cooldown is similar, hammer burst skill is also an AoE with mobility that is more easily landed and can benefit to Cleansing Ire.

 

Just what exactly do players want? I'm confident that there's a lack of will to actually step out of the comfort zone.

It's not the players have an irrational obsession with GS.

 

What you say is true, that if you combine around Fierce Blow properly, then hammer damage is actually surprisingly okay.

 

However, hammer has several other problems that GS does not:

1) Any strong weaponset needs to have both some defensive and offensive capability. GS has this with evades, and strong kiting potential, hammer offers absolutely no defensive capability. If you get focused in a teamfight, you're screwed.

2) Actually landing hits. It's trivially easy for any ranged class to just walk around in circles and pewpew you to death (ranged doesn't necessarily have to mean longbow-ranger here, just anything that can pressure from beyond melee range). Again, GS has ways of closing that gap, and has the range on some of its hits to apply pressure beyond immediate melee distance. On top of that, even if you do get close enough, it's not exactly difficult for an opponent to blind/block/daze the key hammer skills.

3) Hammer can be rendered completely impotent by stability, in a way that GS can't.

4) GS burst is not g1mped by SpB 1-bar adrenaline cap, hammer is.

 

All of that said, I don't think giving damage back to hammer CC skills will change much. It doesn't fix any of the issues listed above. Hammer has simply been power-crept out of viability, regardless of CC-damage.

Edited by Ragnar.4257
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21 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Totally agree with this point. I understand Anet's point of "DH is a Glass Cannon high damage" but a bit more of self sustain would do a lot of good to the build variety. 

Still trapper runes needs not to interact with DH, maybe changing the traps to Ward, DH already have a couple of those in the skillset anyway. 

But isn’t it a bit too much to ask for (not a joke)?

if you look at other glass cannon builds/specs in pvp - do they really have any significant sustain?

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8 minutes ago, Mik.3401 said:

But isn’t it a bit too much to ask for (not a joke)?

if you look at other glass cannon builds/specs in pvp - do they really have any significant sustain?

Try playing a zerker soulbeast, or a zerker herald, and then compare that to trying to play zerker DH without trapper runes.

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12 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Try playing a zerker soulbeast, or a zerker herald, and then compare that to trying to play zerker DH without trapper runes.

What about zerker Chrono? I know it’s less powerful but that’a part of my point I suppose 

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if longbow 5 on dh is allowed to do damage while having a cc attached to it, someone make ranger's axe 4 do damage while traveling out since that's not the cc part too

 

jk offhand axe doesn't exist in pvp

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