Shadow Meld: Making stealth mechanics even worse

[Swagger.1459]

Many have asked for years for the devs to take a second look at stealth and counter stealth mechanics, and to find a "balanced" design, yet here we are...

Deadeye with d/p, hidden thief, hide in shadows, shadow refuge... get revealed? No worries because ... shadow meld to remove reveal and restealth.

This is not balanced for spvp and wvw.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

It has a 1/2 sec cast time ie Interruptible, it's an elite, it can't be spammed ie Ammo mechanic and it's 45 sec CD.

[Swagger.1459]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:It has a 1/2 sec cast time ie Interruptible, it's an elite, it can't be spammed ie Ammo mechanic and it's 45 sec CD.

Sorry, but we are not going to underplay the strength of reveal removal. I have Thief, not ignorant to these things. Big picture.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Big picture Multiple classes keep getting more and more reveal every balance patch(which has been happening any tether effect, Targeted reveals, aoe reveals etc..) if almost every class can remove a mechanic/defensive option like stealth then classes should be able to remove any Invuln/pseudo Invulns (ie stone skin, endure pain, distortion, Mistform etc..) from classes with those . Gotta look at the big picture.

[Swagger.1459]

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:Big picture Multiple classes keep getting more and more reveal every balance patch(which has been happening any tether effect, Targeted reveals, aoe reveals etc..) if almost every class can remove a mechanic/defensive option like stealth then classes should be able to remove any Invuln/pseudo Invulns (ie stone skin, endure pain, distortion, Mistform etc..) from classes with those . Gotta look at the big picture.

Bigger picture... you are not going to paint this as balanced when it's not. Nobody here is an idiot to the strength of stealth mechanics in wvw and spvp.

[Zacchary.6183]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:Big picture Multiple classes keep getting more and more reveal every balance patch(which has been happening any tether effect, Targeted reveals, aoe reveals etc..) if almost every class can remove a mechanic/defensive option like stealth then classes should be able to remove any Invuln/pseudo Invulns (ie stone skin, endure pain, distortion, Mistform etc..) from classes with those . Gotta look at the big picture.

Bigger picture... you are not going to paint this as balanced when it's not. Nobody here is an idiot to the strength of stealth mechanics in wvw and spvp.

There isn't much strength in the stealth mechanic if you know what you are doing against stealth.

[LazerusKI.7485]

and meanwhile i think that the Spellbreakers Elite is by far the most broken one in WvW. Boon Removal and Projectile Defense as a dome around the caster for 10s. With some coordination this could make ranged combat completely useless.sure stealth is strong, but is it broken? nah. You can still go down in the AoE when you run around in a zerg.

[saerni.2584]

Shadow Meld will fix the problem non-evade thieves have with reveal spam.

It's getting quite noticeable. After the beta weekend I get into situations where I'm like, wow I need SM right now. There's quite a few counter stealth abilities, which has made power creep necessary (a counter to the counter).

[alchemyst.2165]

Considering the abundance of easy reveal in this game, a telegraphed 45 second CD elite that removes it and gives a couple seconds of stealth is kind of warranted.

Not to mention you can just reveal them again after they stealth.

[AikijinX.6258]

Nobody will use this in spvp ranked unless they're braindead. In WvW that's a L2P issue. Anet has given so much counterstealth ability to classes it's not even worth taking in WvW Quite frankly.

[Kallist.5917]

Ok, So you say it's unbalanced. How would you say it compares to something like Magebane Tether. In-fact, Im looking at the Spellbreaker, and I'm willing to bet that a skilled player with this would roll you every time, Shadow meld or not. Dont look at these new skills and compare them to the current meta, Compare them to what we will have. And what we are about to get is going to be nuts for a while. Give it all time to settle in to place then worry about what is and isnt balanced. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magebane_Tether_(trait_skill).

[Swagger.1459]

@alchemyst.2165 said:Considering the abundance of easy reveal in this game, a telegraphed 45 second CD elite that removes it and gives a couple seconds of stealth is kind of warranted.

Not to mention you can just reveal them again after they stealth.

you didn't mention running deadeye d/p, sb, hide in shadows, hidden thief, shadow refuge, shadow meld.. and using shadow shot and shadow step to completely disengage in any emergency... to either run or to wait out and reengage.

Nobody is a fool to how Thief performs and the build potentials... We've been though these rodeos since launch. Anet did not create healthy or balance stealth and counter stealth systems, and by looking at profession development, all they do is make issues worse. Lack of foresight yet again.

[Kallist.5917]

I get what you are saying, Stealth HAS been a bit of a black and white situation in regard to balance even since launch, Hell it's been this way since beta. But With so much access to Reveal, I dont think it will be nearly as bad as you believe.

[Sootser.9541]

The only build that can truly benefit from this are main hand dagger builds. 3 backstabs in a few seconds is pretty darn good.

[kash.9213]

@Swagger.1459 said:you didn't mention running deadeye d/p, sb, hide in shadows, hidden thief, shadow refuge, shadow meld.. and using shadow shot and shadow step to completely disengage in any emergency... to either run or to wait out and reengage.

Nobody is a fool to how Thief performs and the build potentials... We've been though these rodeos since launch. Anet did not create healthy or balance stealth and counter stealth systems, and by looking at profession development, all they do is make issues worse. Lack of foresight yet again.

I wish more spvp thieves would post their Hide in Shadows, Hidden thief, Shadow Refuge builds. I feel like I've been missing out.

[omgdracula.6345]

I honestly don't see D/P thieves giving up daredevil in exchange for deadeye.

EDIT: Also why the hell would any thief in their right mind burn a slot on Shadow Refuge and waste the elite on shadow meld for the slim chance of landing multiple backstabs?

[Zacchary.6183]

Not everyone is a d/p thief.

[Wargameur.6950]

I really don't see where is the problem with shadow meld. It is a balanced elite skill with ammo mechanic.

You have to remember that DE has a reduced mobility compared to DD. He can't escape really far without blowing high CD utility or switching to SB which make him lose the initiative. BTW stealth doesn't make the guy invincible....

I find it good, a bit under guard's Renewed focus for exemple. But the DE elite is fine as it is.

[Shirlias.8104]

@saerni.2584 said:Shadow Meld will fix the problem non-evade thieves have with reveal spam.

Though we didn't have had enough time to play, i totally agree with you.Also we should remember that without DASH thieves would be more easy to catch.