Warrior Is a deadhorse murdered by incompetent balance team

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

How do you fix a class where the bulk of its numeric balance is because of the problems existing on other classes, and its simplicity (a good thing) has been so massively phased out by other classes it no longer has the mechanics to content with them?  As soon as it's buffed into usability it becomes OP with a high skill floor like ranger, and otherwise it sucks without reworking a ton of new features or makes another class have the same fate.

This guy gets it. If you don't want to listen to me, then pay attention to this. 

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, wondermuffin.9680 said:

You do understand that it's a rough estimate, right?

What you did there isn't a "rough estimate", it's picking numbers out of thin air (to put it lightly) for the sake of pretending you have any point at all. You understand that, right? 

 

What's funny is that first it was "20 warriors in 20 games, which is 200 players", but in your next post it changed into "20 warriors 200 games" with a claim that "it's not about math and statistics", while at the same time you... keep comparing % of appearance of each class in each game? (while very obviously making up the numbers as you go without even putting much thought into it, hence the constantly changing values the moment someone calls you out on it 🙃)

Edited June 17, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[wondermuffin.9680]

On 6/17/2021 at 5:48 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

What you did there isn't a "rough estimate", it's picking numbers out of thin air (to put it lightly) for the sake of pretending you have any point at all. You understand that, right? 

 

What's funny is that first it was "20 warriors in 20 games, which is 200 players", but in your next post it changed into "20 warriors 200 games" with a claim that "it's not about math and statistics", while at the same time you... keep comparing % of appearance of each class in each game? (while very obviously making up the numbers as you go without even putting much thought into it, hence the constantly changing values the moment someone calls you out on it 🙃)

My original message says: Maybe 20 of those are warriors.

 

MAYBE being the key word here. Don't misquote and then claim people are calling me out. 

[artharon.9276]

Imo this class is fun when you do pve. for pvp, lol. lol. looool. Anyway  I agree with the animations part.

salt = 1

 

I'm giving the list of skill animations that I hate.

 

-Every single spellbreaker skills except WoD and full counter. 

These 4 skills animations are so dmn weak I can't even feel action/reaction sense of these. 

 

-Sight beyond Sight  - spreads ring shaped hair thin yellow effect for 5 ms while the character stand perfectly still.

-Featherfoot Grace  - Absolutely does nothing other then 3 seconds of generic superspeed animation which is already bad.
-Imminent Threat  - Humps the air while absorbing yellow air for taunting enemies.
-Break Enchantments - Humps the air  while absorbing yellow air but quicker this time. LoL?

 

-Bersker

-Is wild blow a joke? this is how anet presented this skill to us. If you look carefully you can see this nice animation for 2 miliseconds. I recorded my screen with high fps recorder. did a frame by frame analysis to see it. This is an insult. 

- Shattering blow: this is another great animation with lackluster duration. another insult to warriors. 

-Sundering Leap. they could have add some cooler ground breaking animation with some visible fractured rocks flying around but nope. just a 1 second visible 128 pixel png overlay to cover the ground. seriously.

-outrage: another insult. I have no words for this really. It doesn't even have an animaton. would it be so hard to give the caracter a simple hero pose with spiraling flames? Why this skill isn't a group skill anyway? 

 

I can say similar things to the thief, but I really love when my daredevil releases its inner Ipman with sweet shadowstep animations and such.

 

salt = 0

Edited June 21, 2021 by artharon.9276

[Blumpf.2518]

Problem with Power Warrior in PVE:

Not enough Critchance. You need all the Bonus Critchance you can get from Fury, Spotter, Banners, Food etc. to reach 100% Critchance. While other Power classes can easily reach 100% Critchance, for Warrior its extremely hard.

And you absolutley have to take the Discpline Traitline because of the improved Banners trait to gain 50 more Precision from Banners and to have enough Adrenaline for your F1 on Cooldown.

And you also need the Strength Traitline because of the high DPS Bonusses there.

So almost every Powerwarrior in PVE looks like

Strenght - Discipline - 3rd Traitline.

 

And in PVP and WvW its all about stuns, interrupts and stunbreaks. This forces the Warrior to play a very defensive build, but with a defensive build its hard to kill stuff, forcing the warrior into the role of a defensive supporter that is annoying but not such a high thread that it has to be dealt with.

 

[alcopaul.2156]

you can run Pure Berserker armor, trinkets, damage runes Spell Breaker and tank a zerg for about 10 seconds~ alone and that's quite alot if you're with your server's zerg.

[firedragon.8953]

Warrior has problems for sure. I still like it though.

The top three on my list is reworking great sword (mainly Hundred Blades...it should basically be like a non-adrenaline damage adjusted burst skill with longer cooldown), mace (auto attack chain needs like a 15% speed increase or something) and hammer (basically everything). 

It's been discussed to no end, but Fast Hands could just be a passive warrior trait and not part of any specialization, since then people will be more likely to trait in other specialization lines. Replace it with something like "gain swiftness (2 sec.) when swapping weapons" in the traitline as this would also synergize great with Warrior's Sprint (reduce damage boost from 10% to like 3% or something since you can basically have perma-swiftness) and make it so warrior melee has a fighting chance against ranged and quicker classes. Also very much keeps with the speed focused aspect of the traitline.

The first sentence in the description of the class is "warriors are masters of weaponry", so yeah...let's have some more excellent weapon usage and less stationary channeling, slow attack chains, etc. 

[Obtena.7952]

On 6/20/2021 at 4:05 AM, firedragon.8953 said:

Warrior has problems for sure. I still like it though.

The top three on my list is reworking great sword (mainly Hundred Blades...it should basically be like a non-adrenaline damage adjusted burst skill with longer cooldown), mace (auto attack chain needs like a 15% speed increase or something) and hammer (basically everything). 

It's been discussed to no end, but Fast Hands could just be a passive warrior trait and not part of any specialization, since then people will be more likely to trait in other specialization lines. Replace it with something like "gain swiftness (2 sec.) when swapping weapons" in the traitline as this would also synergize great with Warrior's Sprint (reduce damage boost from 10% to like 3% or something since you can basically have perma-swiftness) and make it so warrior melee has a fighting chance against ranged and quicker classes. Also very much keeps with the speed focused aspect of the traitline.

The first sentence in the description of the class is "warriors are masters of weaponry", so yeah...let's have some more excellent weapon usage and less stationary channeling, slow attack chains, etc. 

Speaking of dead horses:

 

It has been discussed to no end and Fast Hands being baseline does NOT make it more likely that people trait into other spec lines. Discipline is no less attractive as a trait line if FH is made baseline. In fact, it might be MORE attractive depending on the trait that replaces Fast Hands in Discipline. This illogical rumor needs to be crushed. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

55 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Speaking of dead horses:

 

It has been discussed to no end and Fast Hands being baseline does NOT make it more likely that people trait into other spec lines. Discipline is no less attractive as a trait line if FH is made baseline. In fact, it might be MORE attractive depending on the trait that replaces Fast Hands in Discipline. This illogical rumor needs to be crushed. 

And every warrior main has disagreed with you.

[cryorion.9532]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Speaking of dead horses:

 

It has been discussed to no end and Fast Hands being baseline does NOT make it more likely that people trait into other spec lines. Discipline is no less attractive as a trait line if FH is made baseline. In fact, it might be MORE attractive depending on the trait that replaces Fast Hands in Discipline. This illogical rumor needs to be crushed. 

The goal is not to make Discipline less attractive but to improve non-Discipline builds and make those more attractive.

If there is anything to be crushed, it is your argument that Discipline would be even more attractive with FH baseline.

With FH baseline:

If people want even better weapon swap with bonuses, they can go Discipline anytime (just like now).

If people want to use non-Discipline build (because in their build they value other traitline's traits more than enhanced weapon swap traits from Discipline), then they can do so and with weaponswap that is consistent accross all warrior builds. This is the main reason for FH baseline.

 

FH baseline is not a joke, as you wrote in other thread. It is valid improvement for warrior class, depending on what Anet wants. And as you wrote in other thread, we don't know 🙂

Edited June 22, 2021 by cryorion.9532

[Obtena.7952]

21 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

The goal is not to make Discipline less attractive but to improve non-Discipline builds and make those more attractive.

Making FH baseline doesn't do that. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[cryorion.9532]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Making FH baseline doesn't do that. 

With FH baseline:

If people want even better weapon swap with bonuses, they can go Discipline anytime (just like now).

If people want to use non-Discipline build (because in their build they value other traitline's traits more than enhanced weapon swap traits from Discipline), then they can do so and with weaponswap that is consistent accross all warrior builds. This is the main reason for FH baseline.

 

FH baseline is not a joke, as you wrote in other thread. It is valid improvement for warrior class, depending on what Anet wants. And as you wrote in other thread, we don't know 🙂

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, cryorion.9532 said:

With FH baseline:

If people want even better weapon swap with bonuses, they can go Discipline anytime (just like now).

If people want to use non-Discipline build (because in their build they value other traitline's traits more than enhanced weapon swap traits from Discipline), then they can do so and with weaponswap that is consistent accross all warrior builds. This is the main reason for FH baseline.

Weaponswap 'inconsistency' between Discipline and non-Discipline builds isn't a problem. In fact, choosing traits is an INTENDED way to allow players to make choices so they have variety (the thing you are labelling as  inconsistency) in how their warrior can be played. Variety in choosing traits and the impacts they have on a build is obviously intented and not something that needs to be fixed so the main reason for FH baseline you provide here is absurd. 

 

If FH baseline is a valid improvement ... it's certainly not for the reasons I've seen people give. 

Quote

FH baseline is not a joke, as you wrote in other thread. It is valid improvement for warrior class, depending on what Anet wants. And as you wrote in other thread, we don't know 🙂

Well, actually ... the fact that Anet has made lots of decisions like:

 

1. FH is ALREADY a trait and obviously intended to be so

2. has been for over 8 years with no hint of being a trait 'by error'

3. that traits are intended to provide 'inconsistencies' for players to choose from

 

... perhaps the obvious eludes you but the evidence is pretty strong here that  FH baseline is something that Anet isn't going to consider, especially since it doesn't fix any problem except "players want it"

Edited June 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[cryorion.9532]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Weaponswap 'inconsistency' between Discipline and non-Discipline builds isn't a problem. In fact, choosing traits is an INTENDED way to allow players to make choices so they have variety (the thing you are labelling as  inconsistency) in how their warrior can be played. Variety in choosing traits and the impacts they have on a build is obviously intented and not something that needs to be fixed so the main reason for FH baseline you provide here is absurd. 

 

If FH baseline is a valid improvement ... it's certainly not for the reasons I've seen people give. 

Well, actually ... the fact that Anet has made lots of decisions like:

 

1. FH is ALREADY a trait and obviously intended to be so

2. has been for over 8 years with no hint of being a trait 'by error'

3. that traits are intended to provide 'inconsistencies' for players to choose from

 

... perhaps the obvious eludes you but the evidence is pretty strong here that  FH baseline is something that Anet isn't going to consider, especially since it doesn't fix any problem except "players want it"

I think you underestimate how good FH baseline would be, if you say that weaponswap inconsistency isn't problem. Well, I guess we are done here. If you don't know why, that is exactly why we are done.

Good for you that you know what Anet will do in the future. Let's pretend they have never done anything unexpected or interesting before. Just because something has been trait for XY years doesn't mean it can never become baseline if its to improve less used builds.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

I think you underestimate how good FH baseline would be,

It doesn't matter how good it would be because that has no relevance to why something should be baseline.

 

Again, if your argument here is we can't have 'inconsistency' when something is traited vs. when it's not traited, that's a nonsensical argument because that variation (I'm going to use the proper term here) based on choices a player makes is INTENDED by how trait system is implemented.

 

Again, your lack of recognition of these obvious implementations and intent continually wear away at the thin ruse of these nonsensical arguments for FH baseline, making your constant reference to 'not knowing what Anet does' to be a tired and sad deflection. The reality is that there hasn't been a strong argument presented for changing FH to be baseline. Making something baseline is going to be a VERY hard case to make because there are many more conditions to be met for that than just improving a trait. We are talking about a class-wide change here.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[cryorion.9532]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It doesn't matter how good it would be because that has no relevance to why something should be baseline.

 

Again, if your argument here is we can't have 'inconsistency' when something is traited vs. when it's not traited, that's a nonsensical argument because that variation (I'm going to use the proper term here) based on choices a player makes is INTENDED by how trait system is implemented.

 

Again, your lack of recognition of these obvious implementations and intent continually wear away at the thin ruse of these nonsensical arguments for FH baseline. The reality is that there hasn't been a strong argument presented for changing FH to be baseline. Making something baseline is going to be a VERY hard case to make because there are many more conditions to be met for that than just improving a trait. We are talking about a class-wide change here.

No matter how good or bad the argument is, you will simply keep repeating yourself without trying to think deeper about this, which is main reason why you haven't seen strong argument yet. That is the reality.

 

You are missing that with FH baseline, there would still be choice needed to be done. There would still be that trait system that enhances your builds... but weapon swap would be unified across all warrior builds. Why is it that Discipline alters warrior weapon rotations and skill availability in combat so drastically? What is nonsensical about wanting other builds to be more equalized thanks to FH baseline? A trait can become baseline anytime, if it benefits the class the way Anet wants. Anet can do whatever they want and just because they haven't done it yet doesn't mean they won't do it.

 

"Making something baseline is going to be a VERY hard case to make because there are many more conditions to be met for that than just improving a trait. We are talking about a class-wide change here."

I was discussing this with you year or two ago. About possible trait combinations, and more specific cases which would benefit Fast Hands baseline the most. You know, in depth. But you were unable to give me examples of situation in which Fast Hands would create an overpwerforming build. I asked you so many times and you kept repeating yourself, just like now. So tell me, if you are unable to think deeply enough about what happens when we make FH baseline, how do you think our discussion will look like? Is your argument just that FH is trait and traits are intended to be locked in specific traitline? Because this "rule" is exactly what we want to break in case of FH... to improve non-Discipline builds. How else could we achieve FH baseline? So your argument is irrelevant.

Alternatively, Anet can improve underperforming weapons/skills/traitlines to improve non-Discipline builds. But this discussion is about FH becoming baseline.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, cryorion.9532 said:

You are missing that with FH baseline, there would still be choice needed to be done.

I'm not missing any of that. If we are going to acknowledge Anet's trait design is intended to make players make meaningful choices giving variation in how to play the class, then the argument YOU made that having to make that choice resulting in that INTENDED variation as a reason to make FH baseline is nonsense. 

 

I recall your 'challenge' for me to show FH would result in OP builds ... and you're right, I avoided it because it's not relevant. I don't have a claim FH shouldn't be baseline because it would be OP ... so I don't need to justify it with whatever hoops you think I should jump through. The only reason you want me to 'think deeply' is so you can lead me down the path of irrelevant discussion.

 

Exposing your faulty reasoning is enough. I mean, if you can tell me why FH shouldn't be a trait and made baseline, I'm all ears. Instead you have walls of text meant to cloud the issue. The truth is that you don't have a valid reason that FH should be baseline, especially if you're coming up with reasoning like "because it works how traits are intended to work". 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Telgum.6071]

I think the problem isn't warrior, but other classes overperforming. 

[cryorion.9532]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm not missing any of that. If we are going to acknowledge Anet's trait design is intended to make players make meaningful choices giving variation in how to play the class, then the argument YOU made that having to make that choice resulting in variation as a reason to make FH baseline is nonsense. 

 

I recall your 'challenge' in showing FH would result in OP builds ... and you're right, I avoided it because it's not relevant. Their is no 'challenge' to justify the status quo because it already is. YOU are the one proposing it change, so it's YOU that needs to justify the change with some logical premise. So far you got "because it's good" and "it shouldn't be a trait". That's pretty poor. 

Alright then:

The thing about Discipline builds and Fast Hands is that it allows more complex weapon rotations and more skills used in set interval (on top of other traits Discipline provides).

Warrior is simple profession which doesn't have as many skills available in-combat as e.g. engineer or elementalist. And so Discipline AND Fast Hands "compensate" for this by allowing faster weapon swap in-combat and to make weapon skills on both weaponsets available sooner on demand. Think about it as hopping between weaponsets for specific skills on demand more frequently, which also brings better adaptability. This is why Discipline is so good, because it allows more flexible gameplay. Other traits than Fast Hands in Discipline enhance this swap even more with adrenaline gain on swap, might gain, etc, which is nice but not as important as Fast Hands trait itself.

 

Now the first thing you notice when you swap to any non-Discipline build is that suddenly, in combat you cannot do complex rotations anymore, you cannot go to other weaponset to use certain skill on demand like before because it just doesn't work like with Discipline. This is the previously mentioned weaponswap consistency issue. You can also think about it as being stuck on one weaponset when you need the other one.

This would be fine if non-Discipline builds already had comparable performance with Discipline builds. But they don't. One way is to simply buff other traitlines directly, including skills and so, which is pretty obvious.

Alternatively, by making Fast Hands baseline, we would equalize non-Discipline builds more with Discipline builds, by allowing non-Discipline builds faster weapon swap -> ability to do more complex rotations like Discipline builds + better adaptability for in-combat situations (aka improving their performance). This way, warrior gains the ability to cycle between weaponsets consistently on all builds. This doesn't necessarily mean that there would be no other changes needed. Fast Hands baseline won't fix bad or underwhelming traitline synergies, interactions, and skills).

 

This is a special case, it is not just some random minor trait that we want baseline. Fast Hands has big influence on gameplay that should no longer be exlcusive to Discipline because of how influential it is on gameplay and how it makes Discipline mandatory in most builds. Reason why was explained above, short version: to make non-Discipline builds play more like Discipline builds, bascially.

Edited June 23, 2021 by cryorion.9532

[Obtena.7952]

12 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Alright then:

The thing about Discipline builds and Fast Hands is that it allows more complex weapon rotations and more skills used in set interval (on top of other traits Discipline provides).

Warrior is simple profession which doesn't have as many skills available in-combat as e.g. engineer or elementalist. And so Discipline AND Fast Hands "compensate" for this by allowing faster weapon swap in-combat and to make weapon skills on both weaponsets available sooner on demand.

Why is there a need to make FH baseline to increase rotation complexity to compensate for the small number of available weapon skills if you can already do that by making meaningful trait choices?

 

I'm not questioning the difference between how non-Discipline and Discipline builds work here. The question I am always going to ask is you is why FH being available as a trait should be changed to a baseline skill.

 

12 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

This is a special case ... to make non-Discipline builds play more like Discipline builds, basically.

That's the whole point of traits being meaningful choices to players; because those traits ARE influential and change how you play the class and are INTENDED to be different. Again, variation in play/feel is an INTENDED result of making different trait choices. Therefore, it CAN'T be a reason to make FH baseline.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[DKRathalos.9625]

Speaking of discipline. I know in competitive making FH into Baseline might can bring more variety as in not locked into disc, but the thing what makes Disc Mandatory now is not entirely FH.

At PvE, can you really let go of Axe Mastery? Because basically that's why we have to pick Discipline, Anet has been pushing Axe/Axe For power weapon, it will be foolish if we not taking it, that's more ferocity, more adrenaline and CDR. Plus Warrior has trouble reaching crit cap so they have to even use that extra 50 precision from banner, kind of sad life but well that's what anet want.
Condi warrior need that Crack Shot trait, welp no other spec provide benefit for condi.

For competitive, You need the warrior's sprint for escaping immob plus warrior's playstyle is revolved around burst and disc spec give some CDR to the burst and improve some burst playstyle like burst mastery.

 

Even if they make FH into base (I will still be grateful if they do it) I will still pick Discipline because the benefit is too much, and there is no reason to abandon disc.
If they make Axe Mastery go to Arms for example I think PvE power player will go Strength-Arms-Berserker.

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

Even if they make FH into base (I will still be grateful if they do it) I will still pick Discipline because the benefit is too much, and there is no reason to abandon disc.
If they make Axe Mastery go to Arms for example I think PvE power player will go Strength-Arms-Berserker.

Yeah exactly ... this is the point I've been making. Lots of people claim that making FH baseline gives people more incentive to not choose Disc ... but it doesn't. Discipline, whether FH is baseline or a trait still makes Discipline at least the same value proposition to a player because at a minimum, it's still the same effects on your character when you choose it. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

11 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And every warrior main has disagreed with you.

...too bad they disagreed with that while ignoring everything that was written, because it was always about "just buff me" and not actual "build diversity". Without disci, fh is pretty much just as strong for other classes that are capable of swapping the weapons in-combat.

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[DKRathalos.9625]

7 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Alright then:

The thing about Discipline builds and Fast Hands is that it allows more complex weapon rotations and more skills used in set interval (on top of other traits Discipline provides).

So uh first thing first if FH become base I will be happy don't get me wrong but....

Let's just talk about PvE shall we since it's anet's favourite mode. What kind of complex weapon rotation we talking about most PvE player camping Axe/Axe at fractal and raid. They carry offhand mace just incase for CC, not for "complex weapon rotation."

And the situation now is... let's say FH is base, do you really think they will leave Disc? They can't. Warrior's role in PvE banner slave and Anet made even more mandatory to take disc to make banner 10 man, also are you sure you want to leave out Axe Mastery? that's a lot of DPS loss.

 

Also now is there is no "impressive" level of pure warrior DPS, if they got 1 warrior as banner then If you are not static people will choose other class than warrior 100% for DPS. Even that your static will allow it because they know you and just play the game together not because warrior got super amazing DPS.

So what I am saying is warrior doesn't have complex weapon rotation in PvE. Let's say Theoritically they redesign Arms to give more reliable crit chance for example Fury give more crit chance or whatever which make warrior can crit cap easier like other class and use scholar rune, Move Axe Mastery to Arms too, maybe give slight more damage boost. Now Even without Fast hand, warrior got a boost on DPS and can be considered into real DPS spec by taking Strength - Arms - Berserker competing with other DPS.

 

Also I don't understand why Banner trait in Disc, a lot of people saying banner trait should be in Tactics Trait and I agree with this.

TL:DR For PVE as long as Banner trait and Axe Mastery in Discipline spec you won't be able to leave Disc.

Edited June 23, 2021 by DKRathalos.9625

[Blumpf.2518]

You have to take Discipline cause of the bonus Adrenaline on Hit trait.

Without it you cant use F1 on cooldown. Spamming Axe F1 as Berserker isnt possible without Discipline.

And even if you dont play with Banners, the Banner trait is also very good cause you get the bonus even if you dont have banners equipped.

 

If they want more versatility, they should give every traitline 1-2 traits that improve weapons and put the bonus adrenaline on hit trait into the weapon trait.

Weapon Traits would look like:

 

Greatsword: +120 Power, 20% less Cooldown, Adrenaline on Hit

Axe: +30 Power and +30 Ferocity for each Axe, 20% less Cooldown, Adrenaline on Hit

Sword: +60 Condition Damage for each Sword, 20% less Cooldown, Adrenaline on Hit

Longbow: +120 Condition Damage, 20% less Cooldown, Adrenaline on Hit, Shots Pierce Enemies

Hammer: +120 Power, 20% less Cooldown, Adrenaline on Hit, Bonusdamage to stunned Enemies

Rifle: +120 Power, 20% less Cooldown, Adrenaline on Hit, Shots Pierce Enemies

Mace: +60 Power for each Mace, 20% less Cooldown, Adrenaline on Hit, Bonusdamage to stunned Enemies

Shield: +60 Toughness, 20% less Cooldown, Adrenaline on Hit, Shield Skills reflect projectiles

Warhorn: +60 Concentration, 20% less Cooldown, Adrenaline on Hit, Warhorn Skills affect 10 Players

 

i'd do it like that:

 

Strength Traitline gets Traits for Greatsword and Axe (Power DPS)

Focus on traits that improve direct DPS

 

Arms Traitline gets Traits for Sword and Longbow (Condi DPS)

Focus on traits that improve condition DPS

 

Defense Traitline gets Traits for Mace and Shield (Defense/Heal Traitline)

Focus on Traits that help yourself stay alive and punish the enemy for attacking you

 

Tactics Traitline gets Traits for Warhorn and improved Banners (Support/Heal Traitline)

Focus on traits that support the whole group and punish the enemy for not attacking you

 

Discpline Traitline gets Traits for Hammer and Rifle and less cooldown on weapon swap (PvP/WvW Traitline)

Focus on traits that are useful in PvP / WvW like Stuns, Stunbreak, interrupts, Condicleanse, dodging etc.

 

 

And to make some traitlines more interesting add some new traits like

Defenders Retaliation: Everytime youre hit, all your Skills gain 1 Second less cooldown and you gain 30 Strength for 10 seconds. Activates only 1 / second. Max 10 Stacks

 

Tacticians Battleplan: You and everyone in your group gain 15 Strength every second for 10 seconds. Max 10 Stacks. If hit, the stacks disappear.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Blumpf.2518