Revenant elite spec for end of dragons

[Raven.8156]

Ritualist / dual-dagger / urns and/or weapon spells. 
 

hard to not do the ritualist, it’s the OG concept that rev is derived from.

 

and a lot of long time players want it, and it’s about time they get some TLC. 

GS would be to blah IMO 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

26 minutes ago, Eric.7813 said:

Ritualist / dual-dagger / urns and/or weapon spells. 
 

hard to not do the ritualist, it’s the OG concept that rev is derived from.

 

and a lot of long time players want it, and it’s about time they get some TLC. 

GS would be to blah IMO 

 

It's actually not. If you could go back to the pre-HoT forums, what people were actually asking for was dervish, but empowered by channelling powerful spirits from the Mists rather than gods so that it could be a religion-neutral profession.

 

That's what revenant is. It's about as much a ritualist as rangers using elemental effects makes them elementalists. 

 

Engineer is the intended "home" of the ritualist playstyle... in fact, more accurately, ritualist was the GW1 home for an engineer playstyle, in a setting which didn't have the technological level to justify a Team Fortress-style engineer. Dervish, however, was the playstyle that was most lacking from the original eight core professions of GW2 outside of pure support (which at the time they were actively trying to avoid, and even now I don't think they want a Dedicated Support Profession).

 

Ritualist just doesn't fit on the revenant chassis, since on the revenant chassis you'd only ever have one legend with five utilities, and the GW1 ritualist was a profession based on having a wide range of playstyle options.

[Touchme.1097]

Reading all your interesting comments it's very likely we will see the Ritualist D/D as the next Elite spec. Too many clues for me

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 8/4/2021 at 4:26 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

That's what revenant is. It's about as much a ritualist as rangers using elemental effects makes them elementalists. 

Eh i think that’s a bit of an unfair assessment.  Rev is definitely a blend of GW1’s Dervish, Ritualist, Monk, and a dash of Assassin plus some of its own unique aspects.  There are nods to and gameplay elements pulled from all of the above classes and Rev definitely pulls from Ritualist as one of its main foundations, especially in terms of themeing.  I mean the devs wouldn’t have given it a GW2 version of the ritualist icon or the “Champion Ritualist” title if they didn’t pull from the class as a foundational inspiration.  It feels a bit disingenuous to me to say “it’s as much a ritualist as a ranger using elemental effects makes them an elementalist.”  In that case rangers have had elemental effects since gw1 and it’s a core aspect of the class.  On the other hand rev has far more in common with Rit.  It is also not only Rit, but more of a mix of classes, just like how Guardian is said to be in lore as “monks + paragons” prior to GW2. 
 

I don’t think we’ll get “Ritualist” though so it’s likely a moot point.  If we do get “Ritualist” I imagine it’ll just be nods to aspects of the class through some sort of “Ritualist” legend.  If the leaks are true, perhaps a Naga Rit. 
 

Also I see the argument a lot “Rev works in very specific ways and has very set loadouts which isn’t Rit,” but Anet has said “they’re breaking core elite spec rules with these specs” so I wouldn’t rule anything out based on any gameplay mechanics alone.  If they want to do something I’m sure they’ll make it work, just like they created dozens of new skills for Weaver to make their “weaving” concept work or completely modified mechanics like Dodge for Mirage, etc.  

Edited August 6, 2021 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[draxynnic.3719]

The leak is absolutely a fake. You can compare the predictions that were made regarding mesmer and necromancer - both were way off.

 

To your first point - I've acknowledged that there's a thematic similarity, in that they both draw from the Mists... but that's the point of my analogy with ranger. Ranger and elementalist both make use of elemental magic, but rangers aren't elementalists. You say that Rev is a mix of GW1 classes, but on that, I'd make two observations - first most GW2 classes, even direct descendents of GW1 classes, are a bit of a mix, and second, Dervish already had a lot of those aspects as well. It's, fundamentally, an agnostic dervish.

 

To your second point: I see the "oh, they're breaking the rules" argument thrown around a lot, but I think there are limits to that. First, with Virtuoso as the precedent, they do seem to be being fairly careful not to break existing traits: in Virtuoso's case, for instance, you can pretty much replace every instance of 'clone' in a trait with 'dagger' and the trait will still continue functioning. Revenant has two entire traitlines based around legend-swapping. Second, trying to make an elite specialisation without legend-swapping would be a pretty complex endeavour requiring rebuilding the mechanics from the ground up that could be avoided simply by taking whatever theme they have in mind and applying it to a different base profession instead. Nothing says that revenant has a monopoly on ritualist themes - instead, in fact, we have several other professions that are either implied or are explicitly stated to have absorbed some ritualist traditions into their own.

 

About the only way I could see such 'rule-breaking' work to break the revenant out of having to fall back on a core legend for half their build is if an elite specialisation brings two legends.

[Raven.8156]

On 8/4/2021 at 3:26 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

It's actually not. If you could go back to the pre-HoT forums, what people were actually asking for was dervish, but empowered by channelling powerful spirits from the Mists rather than gods so that it could be a religion-neutral profession.

 

That's what revenant is. It's about as much a ritualist as rangers using elemental effects makes them elementalists. 

 

Engineer is the intended "home" of the ritualist playstyle... in fact, more accurately, ritualist was the GW1 home for an engineer playstyle, in a setting which didn't have the technological level to justify a Team Fortress-style engineer. Dervish, however, was the playstyle that was most lacking from the original eight core professions of GW2 outside of pure support (which at the time they were actively trying to avoid, and even now I don't think they want a Dedicated Support Profession).

 

Ritualist just doesn't fit on the revenant chassis, since on the revenant chassis you'd only ever have one legend with five utilities, and the GW1 ritualist was a profession based on having a wide range of playstyle options.

No, the community has, since day one.

 

Ritualist is the likely spec/theme. It has plenty of elements that haven’t been implemented in gw2 yet and are thematically in-line for the rev. 
 

EOD rev spec icon is a blatant reference to the old ritualist icon. It’s the most likely at this point and would be the right choice IMO 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Eric.7813

[Thon.3780]

I feel the same as him

 

Rev is like a medium that channel power of GW ( maybe both 1 and 2)

Just my opinion

Glint - Monk ?

Jaris -  Knight ? or warrior ?

Kalla- Ranger+ trap

Shiro- Thief or Assassin ?

Ventari - Heal? ritualist ? priest ?

Mallyx - Necro - Curse ( torment)

 

So just feel the remaining is Warrior , Elementalist, Mesmer and engineer has a chance to pop up in EoD

 

 

[Raven.8156]

On 7/12/2021 at 5:10 PM, Erkki.9145 said:

I'm really hoping for a ritualist-themed elite spec 😕

But feels that I really can't but my hopes up, since Kalla was a thing in PoF xD  

The elite spec could again be totally random that has nothing to do with anything.

Yeah

Kalla was disappointing and not relevant. No one really asked for it.

 

The skill animations of Charr pounding ground did me in. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Eric.7813

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

58 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

To your first point - I've acknowledged that there's a thematic similarity, in that they both draw from the Mists... but that's the point of my analogy with ranger. Ranger and elementalist both make use of elemental magic, but rangers aren't elementalists. You say that Rev is a mix of GW1 classes, but on that, I'd make two observations - first most GW2 classes, even direct descendents of GW1 classes, are a bit of a mix, and second, Dervish already had a lot of those aspects as well. It's, fundamentally, an agnostic dervish.

To reduce it to just an agnostic dervish again is really limiting.  It’s definitely much more Derv/Rit + some monk and assassin. 

What Rev takes from each gw1 class is roughly: 

 

Dervish - “channeling a higher power,” Herald’s Enchantment Teardown type gameplay,  generally a melee focus, some group support, some group healing (much lesser extent) 

 

Ritualist - Utilizing the mists to attack/heal/buff, communing with spirits (legends), Renegade’s offensive spirits, spirit buffs/healing, and ranged gameplay, Group support buffs, Rejuvenation magic (1 of 5 traitlines dedicated to healing for both rev and Rit), blindfold thematic,  icon inspired by Rit, champion Ritualist title pvp 

 

Monk - Upkeeps (biggest user of upkeeps and only spec besides Assassin to use them), Healing & support focuses 

 

Assassin - Legendary Assassin Stance, Swords gameplay, upkeeps (lesser extent) 

 

Revenant Unique - Heavy Armor, generally which weapons they use and how they use them, Legends, being able to swap channeled Legend

 

as a Dervish and Rit main from GW1 I just don’t get the “rev is only an agnostic dervish” feeling. To me it feels like a combination of the above depending on the spec and playstyle while also bringing its own unique things to the table.  However, I never get the feeling of “I’m only playing derv” or “I’m only playing rit;” those two feel extremely intertwined in the class for me. But I also did weird kitten with my rits and dervs most weren’t doing (things like giving a Rit a bow and nuking from afar with Splinter Weapon on mobs, etc) in GW1 so that’s likely why I have a different experience from other gw1 vets in this regard 

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

To your second point: I see the "oh, they're breaking the rules" argument thrown around a lot, but I think there are limits to that. First, with Virtuoso as the precedent, they do seem to be being fairly careful not to break existing traits: in Virtuoso's case, for instance, you can pretty much replace every instance of 'clone' in a trait with 'dagger' and the trait will still continue functioning. Revenant has two entire traitlines based around legend-swapping. Second, trying to make an elite specialisation without legend-swapping would be a pretty complex endeavour requiring rebuilding the mechanics from the ground up that could be avoided simply by taking whatever theme they have in mind and applying it to a different base profession instead. Nothing says that revenant has a monopoly on ritualist themes - instead, in fact, we have several other professions that are either implied or are explicitly stated to have absorbed some ritualist traditions into their own.

 

About the only way I could see such 'rule-breaking' work to break the revenant out of having to fall back on a core legend for half their build is if an elite specialisation brings two legends.

I think if you get creative enough you can easily make a spec work while removing or modifying legend swapping.  The “on legend swap” traits really aren’t a limiting factor the way you say here. A few possibilities immediately spring to mind: 

 

1) Legend swap is completely removed for Elitespec 3 and instead replaced with something else entirely.  Could for example only channel one legend, but you get a new F1 that gives you access to an “empowered legend” with a change of skills. 
 

2) Core legends are channeled differently, perhaps as “urns” or something similar that grant skills (not necessarily the same as core). Could be added as F1/2/3/4 and interact with the main legends skills depending on who is being channeled. 
 

3) Core legends just get different EliteSpec 3 skill variants entirely when specced into it 

 

I’m not a game designer and this took me about 5 minutes to think up; I’m sure Anet can do even better and make it work if they want it to.  All of the above examples would still be able to interact with the “legend swap” traits. 

Also I don’t think Virtuoso is actually the best example for your argument since both Scourge and Soulbeast show that they’ve modified traits as much or even further in the past. Scourge completely changed how “Shroud 1/2/3/4” worked for many traits (buttons are completely different on Scourge for dhuumfire/etc.) and Soulbeast changed a bunch of traits and abilities to apply to the Ranger when merged as they began to count the Ranger as the pet as well.  If they can do these types of changes for all of the above specs they can easily make Song of the Mists et. all work on “whatever F1 becomes” instead of “on legend swap.”

as for the “changing legend swap is too complex” I generally disagree.  They showed they can completely rework how attunements work with Weaver, how shroud works with Scourge, and how virtues work with Firebrand and they added huge amounts of skills to two of those as well. They can absolutely do it if they need/want to. Also considering neither of the past elite specs really interacted with legend swap at all id be veryyy surprised if this one keeps the mechanic entirely the same when every other profession has had a major change of their core profession skills at some point. 

 

also no one is saying they can’t spread (or haven’t already spread) ritualist themes/skills to other professions.  They absolutely can and have!  However, that absolutely shouldn’t preclude Rev from potentially getting more ritualist related skills especially since the mechanics worry isn’t any sort of insurmountable issue. 
 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

12 minutes ago, Eric.7813 said:

No, the community has, since day one.

What do you call day 1?

 

Engineer is the home of the ritualist playstyle. Pre-HoT, what people were asking for was the dervish playstyle, albeit as a 'spirit warrior' that channeled spirits through their own body as an agnostic alternative to god avatars. That's what people were asking for before revenant was announced, and this is pretty much what revenant is.

 

12 minutes ago, Eric.7813 said:

 

Ritualist is the likely spec/theme. It has plenty of elements that haven’t been implemented in gw2 yet and are thematically in-line for the rev. 

And that's probably why Kalla is the way Kalla is. Kalla has the primary gameplay element of ritualist: namely, spirits. It's been done. You guys are just refusing to accept it because it doesn't have the aesthetics you want.

12 minutes ago, Eric.7813 said:

EOD rev spec icon is a blatant reference to the old ritualist icon. It’s the most likely at this point and would be the right choice IMO 

I already addressed the symbol:

On 8/4/2021 at 4:52 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Now that I've got a bit of time, let's break this down.

 

First, the ritualist symbol can be viewed here.

 

It's a fairly simple symbol. The outline of the eye is formed by two crescents, which cross over at the corners of the eye in a manner that's reminiscent of certain makeup styles. The pupil/iris is a circle at the centre. It's all curves, apart from the points of the crescents.

 

Similarly, the core revenant symbol can be viewed here.

 

This symbol is more jagged and complex. The upper part is all straight edges and corners. The pupil is represented by a triangle shape, with a long spike extending downwards from the pupil. The bottom part of the eye is the only significantly curved region, albeit with the bottom of the curve interrupted by the aforementioned spike.

 

In comparison with the elite specialisation symbol, the central eye is pretty clearly closer to the revenant style. The upper portion has an extra bend near each end, the lower curved sections now have bends that appear to fold under the upper section, and instead of the triangular pupil with a spike, there's a single inverted triangle to represent the pupil. It's pretty clearly a modification of the revenant eye symbol, and that's why the general consensus is that it's the revenant elite specialisation.

 

I think it's double dipping to claim that it's an eye, and therefore it's revenant, but also that it's an eye, and therefore it's ritualist. The central eye part bears about as little resemblance to the ritualist eye as two different stylised representations of an eye can.

 

Now, we do have those extra bits on the top and bottom, which some people have likened to insectoid mandibles. Now, if those extra bits had been on the sides, in an equivalent position to the 'makeup lines' on the ritualist icon, then maybe that would be conclusive. But they're not. I guess an argument could be made that if you tipped the ritualist icon on its side, cut off the makeup lines, and placed the revenant eye in the place of the ritualist eye's pupil, you'd get something somewhat close to the elite specialisation symbol... but I think that's a really big stretch. The top and bottom bits appear to be separate elements (even if they have some degree of symmetry) rather than being parts of the same crescent just obscured by the central revenant eye, and the 'makeup lines' formed by the crossover of the crescents - which is one of the main things that distinguishes the ritualist symbol from other depictions of eyes in the Guild Wars universe - are completely missing. If the intent really was to be reminiscent of the GW1 ritualist symbol, then suffice it to say that they could have made it a LOT clearer with fairly minor modifications.

 

And again, revenant is meant to be its own thing, not a refugee camp for ritualist players who don't like the aesthetics of engineer. Path of Fire didn't have any elite specialisations that were bending over backwards trying to revive dervish or paragon, after all. 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

5 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

To reduce it to just an agnostic dervish again is really limiting.  It’s definitely much more Derv/Rit + some monk and assassin. 

What Rev takes from each gw1 class is roughly: 

 

Dervish - “channeling a higher power,” Herald’s Enchantment Teardown type gameplay,  generally a melee focus, some group support, some group healing (much lesser extent) 

 

Ritualist - Utilizing the mists to attack/heal/buff, communing with spirits (legends), Renegade’s offensive spirits, spirit buffs/healing, and ranged gameplay, Group support buffs, Rejuvenation magic (1 of 5 traitlines dedicated to healing for both rev and Rit), blindfold thematic,  icon inspired by Rit, champion Ritualist title pvp 

 

Monk - Upkeeps (biggest user of upkeeps and only spec besides Assassin to use them), Healing & support focuses 

 

Assassin - Legendary Assassin Stance, Swords gameplay, upkeeps (lesser extent) 

 

Revenant Unique - Heavy Armor, generally which weapons they use and how they use them, Legends, being able to swap channeled Legend

 

as a Dervish and Rit main from GW1 I just don’t get the “rev is only an agnostic dervish” feeling. To me it feels like a combination of the above depending on the spec and playstyle while also bringing its own unique things to the table.  However, I never get the feeling of “I’m only playing derv” or “I’m only playing rit;” those two feel extremely intertwined in the class for me. But I also did weird kitten with my rits and dervs most weren’t doing (things like giving a Rit a bow and nuking from afar with Splinter Weapon on mobs, etc) in GW1 so that’s likely why I have a different experience from other gw1 vets in this regard 

I'm not saying it's the only thing, but it is the core concept that people were asking for pre-HoT, and that's pretty much what we've got.

 

By contrast, it's your side here that's trying to restrict rev to be a faux-ritualist rather than allowing it to develop independently and do its own thing. Kalla is already a very ritualist-like elite - it just has different visuals. How many ritualist-like elites will it take before your side is content? Will it even be possible for your side to be content when the ritualist elements are all spread across half a dozen different revenant elite specialisations that can't be played with each other? If you're arguing that the revenant has all these themes that are used, why stick to ritualist over and over again? With a profession that could be drawing from monsters and other entities that would otherwise never be playable, why waste that potential by returning to ritualist multiple times?

 

Revenant should be its own profession, not a refugee camp for disenfranchised ritualist players.

5 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

I think if you get creative enough you can easily make a spec work while removing or modifying legend swapping.  The “on legend swap” traits really aren’t a limiting factor the way you say here. A few possibilities immediately spring to mind: 

 

1) Legend swap is completely removed for Elitespec 3 and instead replaced with something else entirely.  Could for example only channel one legend, but you get a new F1 that gives you access to an “empowered legend” with a change of skills. 
 

2) Core legends are channeled differently, perhaps as “urns” or something similar that grant skills (not necessarily the same as core). Could be added as F1/2/3/4 and interact with the main legends skills depending on who is being channeled. 
 

3) Core legends just get different EliteSpec 3 skill variants entirely when specced into it 

These are effectively all variants of "the elite specialisation brings two (or more) legends".

 

Given that we already have a spirits-themed revenant elite spec, though, I don't think we need another ritualist spec just to appease the people who want teal lightning and wraith graphics over the charr-themed graphics of Kalla.

5 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

Also I don’t think Virtuoso is actually the best example for your argument since both Scourge and Soulbeast show that they’ve modified traits as much or even further in the past. Scourge completely changed how “Shroud 1/2/3/4” worked for many traits (buttons are completely different on Scourge for dhuumfire/etc.) and Soulbeast changed a bunch of traits and abilities to apply to the Ranger when merged as they began to count the Ranger as the pet as well.  If they can do these types of changes for all of the above specs they can easily make Song of the Mists et. all work on “whatever F1 becomes” instead of “on legend swap.”

as for the “changing legend swap is too complex” I generally disagree.  They showed they can completely rework how attunements work with Weaver, how shroud works with Scourge, and how virtues work with Firebrand and they added huge amounts of skills to two of those as well. They can absolutely do it if they need/want to. Also considering neither of the past elite specs really interacted with legend swap at all id be veryyy surprised if this one keeps the mechanic entirely the same when every other profession has had a major change of their core profession skills at some point. 

Except that these all still demonstrate the point: they're all still sticking to have something reasonably close to the core mechanics. Scourge just made it so that the shroud skills were F1-F5 (on a default keybinding) rather than 1-5 while in shroud. Soulbeast just went 'you're merged with your pet, so your pet buffs go to you instead'. Weaver still changes attunements. Firebrand still activates virtues, even if they have different effects. 

 

Legend swap is the core feature of revenant, like attunement swapping for elementalist. It might be modified somewhat, but doing away with it entirely is not something I see happening, because if you're going to have revenant without legend swapping, you might as well base it on another profession.

 

And that's one of the big problems I see with the "revenant=ritualist" argument. Ritualist was a profession based on customisability - you had a wide range of skill types to choose from, with various different synergies between them and roles you can take. Revenant, on the other hand, buys all of its utility skills in two blocks. Similar to elementalist weapon skills, revenant trades being able to pick the exact utility skills you want in exchange for having more of them available on a single build. For all there are some similarities in the fluff, the mechanical design principles of the two are pretty much diametrically opposed. And any effort to bring them together would require such a fundamental redesign of revenant that you might as well just be making a new profession altogether.

5 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

 

also no one is saying they can’t spread (or haven’t already spread) ritualist themes/skills to other professions.  They absolutely can and have!  However, that absolutely shouldn’t preclude Rev from potentially getting more ritualist related skills especially since the mechanics worry isn’t any sort of insurmountable issue. 
 

 

Again, you've had your ritualist-themed elite specialisation. You just don't like that it had a charr aesthetic rather than the GW1 ritualist aesthetic.

 

Revenant's potential to draw from legends gives it the potential to have legends with playstyles very different from anything we've seen before, or anything that any of the other professions have. It'd be a total waste to keep chasing ritualist when it will never get there.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

So after reading some more responses the general consensus for being against ritualist is that A) engineers are the playstyle successor of rit B) renegade is the spirit spammer C) guardians and necros also cover some ground of the ritualist themes and playstyles. 

 

My argument against this is... are any ritualist players actually satisfied with any of these implementations? is the playstyle of ritualist the aspect that draws in players, or is it the themes and lore of the proffesion that the people want?

 

For me personally, I want a spooky ghost boy and nothing currently fits that theme. The reason revenant pulls me in most is due to its ritualist-esque themes of communing with the mists and drawing power from that realm. I never play heavy armor professions or classes in any games, I always play mages, but I have spent more time playing revenant and creating multiple of them because of the theme. Renegade tried to be a spirit spammer, but it doesnt scratch that ritaulist itch, its more so a well caster with artillery than a spooky ghost boy. More military vibes, not enough ghost vibes.

 

Ritualist took powers from the deceased by using urns for different effects, spirits with varying effects, weapon spells with varying effects, etc.. Revenant does it differently by completely embodying those they channel. Instead of just channeling a single spell or effect, they are more focused on who they channel and can get more power out of them. This makes the revenant appear more as warrior-esque profession, like instead of summoning Bloodsong, they become bloodsong. People point and say, hey see they are more like a warriors, look they wear heavy armor and fight with swords. But really theyre even more hardcore ritualists than those in gw1 because the type of channeling they're doing is a little more intense.

 

Ok i'm done with my fan fiction, but thats how I feel about it. I really want razah, and I really want some spirit lightning flying around.

[Dadnir.5038]

@ScottBroChill.3254

Personally I see revenant as a ritualist that have urns swap. GW1's ritualist spirit gameplay would have been inadapted in GW2 and sPvP players would have made sure that such gameplay would be nerfed to uselessness as soon as possible if it even started to show some positive result (That's just how GW2 sPvP community is).

 

Like I said in another thread, the revenant feel more like a successor or an elite spec of the ritualist than a true blue ritualist. But it's the same for most profession, for example, the necromancer in GW2 is totally different from the necromancer in GW1 and the same is true for the mesmer and many other professions.

 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, ScottBroChill.3254 said:

My argument against this is... are any ritualist players actually satisfied with any of these implementations? is the playstyle of ritualist the aspect that draws in players, or is it the themes and lore of the proffesion that the people want?

 

Counterargument: Is it fair to people who like revenant for what it is to get one ritualist wannabe elite spec after another?

 

Spooky ghost boy, in a GW2 context, would actually be better applied to necromancer. As opposed to the GW1 necromancer, which pretty much stuck to curses, blood magic, and the physical aspects of death, the GW2 necromancer does extend to the spectral realm: shroud (and sand shades), spectral skills, the Shadow Fiend, some attack skills, and so on. Bringing in that extra spooky ghost stuff in a necromancer elite specialisation would have precedent in existing necromancer skills, and it would mean that the customisation and mixing and matching between skills that the GW1 ritualist was known for would be possible, including mixing core necromancer skills with the hypothetical elite specialisation.

 

That way, you could get both the theme and lore, and a much closer analogue to the playstyle than you're ever likely to get bolting ritualist onto revenant.

 

Sure, GW1 separated necromancer and ritualist... but GW2 necromancer has clearly encroached on the ritualist's territory. Plus, dual professions was a thing back in GW1, including the spawning power minion bombing build. 

[RabbitUp.8294]

On 8/4/2021 at 11:26 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Ritualist just doesn't fit on the revenant chassis, since on the revenant chassis you'd only ever have one legend with five utilities, and the GW1 ritualist was a profession based on having a wide range of playstyle options.

 

Well, yeah, all gw1 classes had a range of options, it's never going to be possible to translate their whole arsenal in a single elite spec, regardless if it is given to Revenant or any other class.

 

But if you take Renegade and skin it a bit differently, it would make a Ritualist spec that I'm sure would have most gw1 veterans satisfied. Basically, the heal skill becomes Rejuvenation, utilities are Pain, Dissonance, Agony, elite is Vampirism. You could even change the F2-F4, for example the alacrity one becomes Weapon of Quickening, so that you get more than just spirits, even if spirits and heal spells is 99.9% of what Ritualist was known for.

 

But even as it is, it still establishes an elite spec that is all about summoning fallen spirits from the Mists, a purely Ritualist area of expertise. It's just that those spirits are characters with a name and a face, instead of generic spooky ghosts.

 

Anyway, that ship has sailed now, but when it comes to theme, Revenant is very clearly a fusion of Rit and Derv, instead of communing with ancestors, or becoming an avatar of the Six Five, you instead become an avatar of ancestors. Gw2 necromancer doesn't have any mists aspects in their skills. Necromancer both in gw1 and gw2 is about what is left behind after death, while ritualist pierced the veil. Necro is about flesh and bones and even shroud, spectral skills and such are still about the residual life force lingering after death, they don't bring spirits from the mists (at least not in gameplay, the story mode necros can, but then again, so can Norn shamans).

Edited August 6, 2021 by RabbitUp.8294

[Aeolus.3615]

15 hours ago, Thon.3780 said:

I feel the same as him

 

Rev is like a medium that channel power of GW ( maybe both 1 and 2)

Just my opinion

Glint - Monk ?

Jaris -  Knight ? or warrior ?

Kalla- Ranger+ trap

Shiro- Thief or Assassin ?

Ventari - Heal? ritualist ? priest ?

Mallyx - Necro - Curse ( torment)

 

So just feel the remaining is Warrior , Elementalist, Mesmer and engineer has a chance to pop up in EoD

 

 

 

Just a small note:

 

Renegade/Kala utilites have nothing to do with traps o_O, they are a fusion of wards and spirits.

Renegade spirits can be knocked back, sometimes the KB on the utility will stop its effect as well while the animation and its duration continues.

 

Herald alone can be seen more like a paragon buffing alies...

Herald/ventari setup can work like a healing monk with some minor protection

Natural Harmony was initially a aoe version of patient spirit.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[draxynnic.3719]

11 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Anyway, that ship has sailed now, but when it comes to theme, Revenant is very clearly a fusion of Rit and Derv, instead of communing with ancestors, or becoming an avatar of the Six Five, you instead become an avatar of ancestors. Gw2 necromancer doesn't have any mists aspects in their skills. Necromancer both in gw1 and gw2 is about what is left behind after death, while ritualist pierced the veil. Necro is about flesh and bones and even shroud, spectral skills and such are still about the residual life force lingering after death, they don't bring spirits from the mists (at least not in gameplay, the story mode necros can, but then again, so can Norn shamans).

Yeah, you've pretty much repeated the point I was making - Kalla is pretty much a spirit spammer in GW2, just with a different aesthetic. That's about as close to ritualist as I think revenant can ever become, mechanically speaking. I'm pretty sure that the only reason we're even having this conversation now is because they used charr-themed aesthetics rather than saving the ritualist-themed elite spec for Cantha.

 

(Which probably happened because when PoF was made, they didn't know they were going to return to Cantha in GW2, so they made the ritualist-themed elite spec in PoF with aesthetics that made sense at the time just so that it was in the game.)

 

You could call plausible deniability on spectral skills and the like, but Shadow Fiend is pretty much summoning something from the Mists, or at least something that's ghostly to begin with rather than being made of flesh and bones. The Scourge elite is explicitly creating a rift.

 

The potential for a ritualist-themed necromancer elite is definitely there. And with the broader themes of GW2 professions in general, it makes sense for the necromancer to be able to absorb ritualist stuff. After all, if nothing else, necromancer/ritualist and ritualist/necromancer were dual profession combinations that offered a lot of synergy in GW1.

 

(Of course, one could argue that scourge is also ritualist-like, and that might well have been the intent. Kalla is a lot closer than scourge is, though.)

Edited August 7, 2021 by draxynnic.3719
Closed a bracket

[Duke Blackrose.4981]

If Shiro weren't part of the base Rev, I'd say he's a 100% lock. However, because we already have him, I'm of the opinion that the legend, much like Kalla, will have absolutely nothing to do with the setting. 

 

I'd actually consider Balthazar to be the most likely legend, with Trahearne being a troll pick and Rurik being a good darkhorse candidate.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

As someone who never played Factions, I don't have any particular attachment to the Ritualist. At the end of the day I just want an e-spec, weapon, legend that are fun to play and with good visuals. I will continue to hold onto the dream that we'll get legend weaving as our e-spec mechanic. 

[AintGold.5128]

Everyone speculates about a new weapon or a new legend. So I'll come in with an idea for a new profession skill. Using Shiro stance you can hear "I demand that you release me!" or Mallyx's "Unleash me!". So maybe there is an option that the revenant can give up his body  or a legend can take over the body. So what if the new skill of the profession was that the revenant would give up a part of the body or even a whole temporary in exchange for the better skills of the legend? And maybe an improvement in the statistics as well.

[Xhelin.3126]

I had a fever dream last night that the new revenant elite specification revolved around the idea of shapeshifting as their additional mechanic in addition to their new legend. 

 

Something akin to the Necromancers shroud — you’d transform into a bestial form for a period of time, which replaces your weapon skills with an assortment of slashes, bites, and roars. All of which would be augmented by your chosen legend(similarly to how the aquatic weapons change depending on your legend.)

 

Jora would be a good legend to call from, each utility could be a totem of the spirits of the wild — invoking different boons and abilities depending on the totem animal. 

 

The elite spec could be called, the shaman. 

 

The icon people are speculating is the revenant further fuels this fever dream of mine cuz to me… it looks like fangs? Yeah, I’m reaching. Sadly, daggers doesn’t really tie in with Jora or any other significant Norn that I know of. 

[Thon.3780]

After A Net launch 3 Elite I seem that theme for this expansion is eastern martial art. Or anything relate

WB - sw Kungfu

VS - Flying dagger 

HB - pistol + shrouds in barehand kungfu 

 

so theme can be martial art , daoist , Jiangxi, or summon beast

and Rev is heavy armor , so I guess new elite should use close combat weapon . I don’t think ANET will make 2 range weapon in 2 expansion consecutively

 

Daggers, GS , Ax main, mace off  is possible 
unless ANET will modify  weapon to be close range like scepter ( same as hammers to be long range) then. We will see surprise things.

 

 

[Fueki.4753]

2 hours ago, Thon.3780 said:

and Rev is heavy armor , so I guess new elite should use close combat weapon . I don’t think ANET will make 2 range weapon in 2 expansion consecutively

I don't see why they wouldn't give Revenant another ranged weapon.

 

Both Engineer specialisations' weapons are melee ranged.

Guardian got two melee weapons for their specializations in a row as well.

 

Necromancer will have two ranged weapon in a row as well, so it wouldn't be surprising if Revenant gets the same.

Having two melee or ranged weapons in a row is nothing surprising.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[draxynnic.3719]

Revenant is also, unfortunately, in a similar problem to engineer, except reversed. Engineer's lack of a core melee weapon means that any elite specialisation that's expected to be suitable for use in melee pretty much needs to have a melee weapon, unless the elite specialisation is intended to rely on toolkit or bomb kit for melee. Similarly, with hammer basically nerfed to death in every mode except WvW (since they refused to split until it had already been nerfed to death), any elite specialisation for revenant that isn't intended to be pretty much exclusively melee-oriented needs a ranged weapon.

 

This is something that could be fixed by giving revenant and engineer an additional core weapon each, but they seem to be allergic to doing so, thereby propagating the problem to every future elite specialisation.

[Brunnsteinangel.2568]

Ok, my take on an elite spec, and yes I stole a bit here and there from a few ideas here 😛

"The Warmonger"

Legend:

Balthasar

 

Special Mechanic:

CDs get massivly reduced across the board.

No more Legend swaping, instead you have a "prepare for war" mode, which is your usual form and an "unleash war" mode, whichs is like a shroud/special form.

"Unleash war" starts with 100 energy (125 or a 150 if traited for it) and changes your utilies, while also "adding" to you weapon attacks (depending on your legend), like additional boons, healing, buffs, damage etc.

While unleashing war you gain "Exhaust", a debuff like Blight, though it will only trigger once you stop unleashing war and go back to "prepare".

"Exhaust" increases CDs per stack, while lowering movement speed and stamina regen. (let say up to have and doubling CDs when at full stack). So you have a similar "risk reward" like with the harbringer.

 

Traits:

Would work mostly around how to change "Exhaust", gain benefits from it or changing your "unleash war".

More "willbender" then "harbringer".

 

Weapon:

Greatsword with a 600 range, but meele auto chain. Grows to 900 range when unleashing war.

 

Interaction with other Legends:

Ventari could gain a lot of boons or healing, while "unleashing" him, going full medic on the battlefield.

Shiro would work around increased movement speed, unblockable attacks, quickness and might&fury.

Malyx would gain more condition output, while also afflicting yourself more.

Jalis would offer a lot of vigor, protection and damage reduction.