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A rant about the Surveys about the game you sent by mails


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2 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

The point this person was trying to make despite the grammatical issues was that on some level its best to survey the most experienced players because they have done/seen/played the most so their opinions might be a bit more thorough and accurate. What constitutes an experienced player could certainly be another post and debate. I never received a survey but I think it would have been useful if one was sent out to every single player in the entire game or a link to vote on things was. Regardless of the logistics, 40,000 opinions falls in comparison to 800,000.


It depends on what the survey was hoping to achieve. Sending to just experienced players isn’t necessarily better. Surveying every player isn’t necessarily any better than surveying a fraction as well. 

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Along the years I already saw several reddit posts of players speaking about surveys by mail about the future of gw2 and similar topics. Never did I received one nor my brother who is playing GW1 and

Surveys are not some loyalty/veteran thing.    Overall surveys about the game are best done using random sampling otherwise the results may get distorted. Imagine if Anet did a survey about wha

Imagine if Anet did a survey about what GW2 players wanted, but they were only sent to people who post on the forum ...

1 minute ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:


It depends on what the survey was hoping to achieve. Sending to just experienced players isn’t necessarily better. Surveying every player isn’t necessarily any better than surveying a fraction as well. 

That's why getting all bent out of shape is a little silly. WHO is to say my way or your way is the best? So many factors and variables. We all have our opinions and ANET did what it did and it is what it is. Acceptance is a beautiful thing. Next controversy! xD 

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19 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It seems to me that "and that's why..." part should be comming after giving the reasoning for why something should happen, but tbh I didn't see anything other than "I didn't get the invitation despite having tons of AP, but it's not about me! (but it is)". Did I miss something?

What I know is that if they actually want to read through the opinions shared in the survey, then sending out those "invitations" en-masse doesn't make much sense. They probably had their own reasons for certain people to share their input and you or your brother didn't fit. Who cares.

 

And again, who's supposed to read through all of them later? If they'll need more input, they'll send another batch. Why are people so entitled even about something as trivial as surveys that they can literally just not care about if it doesn't fit their vision anyways?

 

See... Above you claimed it's not about you. But it very clearly is. Less entitlement will give you more peace of mind imo.

 

 

 

 

He is 100% right in his entitlement.

Who will give best feedback to Anet, a player who dedicated 8 years playing the game or a casual that plays only in expansions, halloween and christmas?

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16 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

He is 100% right in his entitlement.

Who will give best feedback to Anet, a player who dedicated 8 years playing the game or a casual that plays only in expansions, halloween and christmas?

a veteran might have more nuanced ideas but both sets of feedback are equally valid since we all want the game to be better.

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31 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

He is 100% right in his entitlement.

😆 No, he's not.

 

Quote

Who will give best feedback to Anet, a player who dedicated 8 years playing the game or a casual that plays only in expansions, halloween and christmas?

You literally don't know what they're looking for and what audience they want to target and because of that you clearly have no idea "who will give best feedback" here.

 

And btw even IF they wanted a veteran player that actually consistently farms content, OP still isn't qualifying for that.

 

Edited by Sobx.1758
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The surveys aren't anything special. They're sent out randomly every few months and are usually about the latest release, essentially asking if you played it and what you liked/disliked about it. Who gets it ultimately doesn't matter, but since the goal is to get people playing, specifically targeting dedicated players wouldn't be the best choice.

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46 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

He is 100% right in his entitlement.

Who will give best feedback to Anet, a player who dedicated 8 years playing the game or a casual that plays only in expansions, halloween and christmas?

I don't think that's true. Someone who spends a lot of time in the game on a regular basis may not be able to tell you anything you can't see from their activity: yes they like the game, yes they've played the new release, yes they're aware of what's coming up and are looking forward to it, yes they've tried whatever feature is mentioned in this month's survey....

 

Ok great, so keep doing what you're already doing and had already planned to do and the people who already like it will continue to like it. You don't need a survey to find that out.

 

Whereas someone who only plays the game intermittently might be able to tell you why that is, or at least offer more information that can help you draw conclusions and maybe find a way to make the game more accessible or appealing to a wider range of people.

 

I remember a few year ago when Anet revamped a bunch of stuff related to very low level content one of the changes was to remove environmental weapons and other things which changed your skill bar. Apparently that was because the number 1 reason very new players contacted Customer support was variations on "I've lost all my skills and can't get them back" or "my skills keep disappearing". People who didn't find that confusing and so got beyond that point and played for much longer probably never thought twice about it, so they wouldn't have been able to give any feedback on it, certainly not highlight that it's a major point of confusion for new players. (I know I was surprised to hear it and when I first played GW2 I wasn't even sure how to move my character because I hadn't played a game that used W, A, S, D in a few years.) They could only get that information from people who had barely started the game and then quit, and apparently thought that was valuable feedback which they could use to make the game more welcoming and therefore increase the number of people who became those long-term, dedicated players.

 

(Incidentally I never heard how effective that, and other changes, were and I'd love to find out, but I doubt Anet would tell us.)

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2 hours ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

He is 100% right in his entitlement.

Who will give best feedback to Anet, a player who dedicated 8 years playing the game or a casual that plays only in expansions, halloween and christmas?

The one who isn't playing the game regularly.

Understanding why people arent engaging with the product is of much greater value than understanding the pretend dissatisfaction and faked consumerist outrage of someone who clearly is.

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I don't really care about who gets these surveys other than for them to come here and detail what improvements to the game occurred based on the answers given in the survey.  When I see Anet make changes, I often believe that there is little to no input from the player-base, whether it be from surveys or forum posts.  For me, I feel that these surveys are nothing more than red herrings designed to make players feel that their input and concerns actually matter.

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2 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I don't think that's true. Someone who spends a lot of time in the game on a regular basis may not be able to tell you anything you can't see from their activity: yes they like the game, yes they've played the new release, yes they're aware of what's coming up and are looking forward to it, yes they've tried whatever feature is mentioned in this month's survey....

 

Ok great, so keep doing what you're already doing and had already planned to do and the people who already like it will continue to like it. You don't need a survey to find that out.

 

Whereas someone who only plays the game intermittently might be able to tell you why that is, or at least offer more information that can help you draw conclusions and maybe find a way to make the game more accessible or appealing to a wider range of people.

 

I remember a few year ago when Anet revamped a bunch of stuff related to very low level content one of the changes was to remove environmental weapons and other things which changed your skill bar. Apparently that was because the number 1 reason very new players contacted Customer support was variations on "I've lost all my skills and can't get them back" or "my skills keep disappearing". People who didn't find that confusing and so got beyond that point and played for much longer probably never thought twice about it, so they wouldn't have been able to give any feedback on it, certainly not highlight that it's a major point of confusion for new players. (I know I was surprised to hear it and when I first played GW2 I wasn't even sure how to move my character because I hadn't played a game that used W, A, S, D in a few years.) They could only get that information from people who had barely started the game and then quit, and apparently thought that was valuable feedback which they could use to make the game more welcoming and therefore increase the number of people who became those long-term, dedicated players.

 

(Incidentally I never heard how effective that, and other changes, were and I'd love to find out, but I doubt Anet would tell us.)

This is a great example. It is a great case of selection bias which is very important to see true. 

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There's no reason to be upset over not getting picked.

 

Most surveys are multiple choice, and all they do is get an average for the answers over a mass random amount of players. Anet is certainly not sitting there reading each and every answer, including the last part of the survey which usually asks your written opinion.

 

Also someone who spent 8 years in the game pveing and collecting all those achievements, is not the one and only opinion that needs to be heard always, because on one hand it states you've been happy enough with that part of the game to not completely quit it, on the other hand you did little to no pvp, the other half of the game. I've been with the game since day one and mostly wvw, so is my opinion less important because I only have 16k achievement points? No.

 

Surveys are a good tool to gauge problem areas of a game, it's the same with forums, just a tool to collect data/feedback on problems/reactions. You can just as well just post about your problems like this thread and get a discussion going on whatever area is bothering you, and it probably would have a better chance of being seen by a staff member than on a random survey, which are also usually done by third party.

 

The more important thing to me would be the type of questions they are asking, and are they asking about all parts of the game, I could care less who's answering since it's going to be a large pool anyways, unless they decided to just target a small section of players, in which case the survey would be worthless anyways.

Edited by XenesisII.1540
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1. Samples are taken because they are representative of the population of interest. They eliminate the need to sample the entire population. For the number of players that GW2 has, a sample size of 2000 would give highly accurate results.

2. There are multiple ways for Anet to cut the sample. Time in game is one option. Another option is to sample based on information recorded in their database - for example, achievements. The latest survey that I was sent was about DRMs. I had played all of them, information that is contained in their database. Because there are achievements associated with each strike mission, raid, meta event, and so forth, Anet can cut a sample of players who have used content if they want information on that content.

3. That means, depending on the survey, that some players will never be included in the population for the point of the survey. For example, if Anet did surveys on player experiences in raids (I don't know if they have) then players who have never raided will never be part of the sample.

4. As a sample is used, most players who have accessed the content of interest will not be selected (unless it's content with a very small number of players). Randomness has no memory. It is possible for a player to never be surveyed about anything.

5. Never being sampled is not an insult.

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7 minutes ago, Hesione.9412 said:

For example, if Anet did surveys on player experiences in raids (I don't know if they have) then players who have never raided will never be part of the sample.

 

Focus sampling is fine too, and I wouldn't expect an email to me on questions for most of the pve content.

 

Although they could also learn some stuff from the people who don't play that content either, by diving a bit into why they don't like it or don't even try it in the first place. But that's if they were interested in looking to improve content to include more players or just improve for those that currently do.

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11 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Because there's over 11 million GW2 accounts. No they won't all respond of course, but it could still result in far too much data to reasonably manage, especially if there's open-ended questions where someone has to read and collate the responses.

 

Only if they are asking for a written text. They could just use multiple choice questions or make a follow-up survey aimed at the broader player base to see whether or not the feedback these individuals gave is actually a common sentiment within the playerbase.

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13 hours ago, Oldyoung.6109 said:

a veteran might have more nuanced ideas but both sets of feedback are equally valid since we all want the game to be better.

Let's address the curve from very new player to very experienced player. I do believe there is a correlation from effective feedback to experienced player. Now we could argue the criteria but I think at the bare minimum they should have at least one level 80 character and completed the personal story. 

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I don’t particularly care about the sample size or that I was not selected, but I do have two issues with this survey:

1. Why the sense of secrecy? I have heard what some of the survey content entails and, come on, it’s not NDA territory here! It’s just silly to demand secrecy over these questions.

2. Why was this survey exclusively sent to account emails? Why did it not include an in-game mail, notifying the player that they should check their account email. Surely Anet only sent this to active players, so mail wouldn’t be an issue. Only sending this to account emails (which could have been set up years ago and barely touched) is not maximizing the response rate. Best would be a link in the mail to take you to the survey (which isn’t possible for some odd reason).

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39 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

I don’t particularly care about the sample size or that I was not selected, but I do have two issues with this survey:

1. Why the sense of secrecy? I have heard what some of the survey content entails and, come on, it’s not NDA territory here! It’s just silly to demand secrecy over these questions.

2. Why was this survey exclusively sent to account emails? Why did it not include an in-game mail, notifying the player that they should check their account email. Surely Anet only sent this to active players, so mail wouldn’t be an issue. Only sending this to account emails (which could have been set up years ago and barely touched) is not maximizing the response rate. Best would be a link in the mail to take you to the survey (which isn’t possible for some odd reason).

I'm not sure why you seem to be upset.

1a. Companies do surveys all the time. They don't tell their customers. For example, sometimes I get a survey from my main bank. They're not sending out emails to all banking customers to let them know there is a survey.

1b. I don't think/recall if there was a non-disclosure on the one I did. The only thing I remember is being asked not to forward the survey.

2. Because that's the email associated with the account.

 

They're doing business standard operating procedures.

 

Your issues are your issues. There's nothing suspect or wrong about the surveys.

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1 hour ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

I don’t particularly care about the sample size or that I was not selected, but I do have two issues with this survey:

1. Why the sense of secrecy? I have heard what some of the survey content entails and, come on, it’s not NDA territory here! It’s just silly to demand secrecy over these questions.

2. Why was this survey exclusively sent to account emails? Why did it not include an in-game mail, notifying the player that they should check their account email. Surely Anet only sent this to active players, so mail wouldn’t be an issue. Only sending this to account emails (which could have been set up years ago and barely touched) is not maximizing the response rate. Best would be a link in the mail to take you to the survey (which isn’t possible for some odd reason).

Again, there's no NDA, no secrecy.  Merely the line I posted previously taken directly from the email. 

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On 6/16/2021 at 9:18 PM, hugo.4705 said:

And that's why, by default, all account with a character who received at least a 6 year gift should be automatically written on your list and receive a survey. Plus the players with an amount of AP above 25000 or very high number of episode mastery achievement completed (Have them all apart two from HoT). Or even, if the player have at least crafted one or two legendary!

 

 

Nah, those are noob prerequisites. they should only send them to the TP barons with hundreds of thousands of gold, because thats clearly the metric for someone engaged worthy of hearing his feedback.

 

and then, survey's feedback: everything is too cheap, please increase cost of everything by 50000%

 

 

now seriously, stop. just stop. the last thing this game needs is catering only to people like us. the survey should gather feedback from as many different groups of people with as many different PoVs and experiences as possible, not be heavily biased for a single group of people

Edited by Konrad Curze.5130
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5 hours ago, Hesione.9412 said:

I'm not sure why you seem to be upset.

1a. Companies do surveys all the time. They don't tell their customers. For example, sometimes I get a survey from my main bank. They're not sending out emails to all banking customers to let them know there is a survey.

1b. I don't think/recall if there was a non-disclosure on the one I did. The only thing I remember is being asked not to forward the survey.

2. Because that's the email associated with the account.

 

They're doing business standard operating procedures.

 

Your issues are your issues. There's nothing suspect or wrong about the surveys.

Not telling customers about a survey and insisting that those surveyed don’t tell other people are very different things. Given the content of the survey, insisting that players don’t share the survey questions just comes off as comedic. There’s nothing in the survey worth hiding. Hence my confusion.

 

And, again, players may not frequently check the email associated with their account. A simple mail to any players selected informing them to check their email requires little effort and improves awareness of the survey. 
 

You’re not certain why I’m annoyed because you seem to just be talking past me. Please read what I actually said if you are going to reply.

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"insisting that players don’t share the survey questions just comes off as comedic"

 

Except they aren't insisting on that at all. They just asked recipients not to forward the survey invite. They want to hear from the selected group, not the selected group and all their friends.

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1 hour ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Not telling customers about a survey and insisting that those surveyed don’t tell other people are very different things. Given the content of the survey, insisting that players don’t share the survey questions just comes off as comedic. There’s nothing in the survey worth hiding. Hence my confusion.

What would even be the purpose of sharing this survey anyways? Getting threads like this one?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Not telling customers about a survey and insisting that those surveyed don’t tell other people are very different things. Given the content of the survey, insisting that players don’t share the survey questions just comes off as comedic. There’s nothing in the survey worth hiding. Hence my confusion.

 

And, again, players may not frequently check the email associated with their account. A simple mail to any players selected informing them to check their email requires little effort and improves awareness of the survey. 
 

You’re not certain why I’m annoyed because you seem to just be talking past me. Please read what I actually said if you are going to reply.

Nowhere in the email does it state that the information should not be shared.  Not sure where you are getting that.  It does ask that the invitation (to the survey) not be forwarded.  No mention of sharing (or lack thereof) anywhere. 

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