It's a pretty good time to play Revenant

[Dahkeus.8243]

I know, it's a bit taboo to make a topic that's pointing out a positive aspect of a profession, but the popularity and overall strength of classes will always vary over time and I think it's worth taking a moment to appreciate where the Revenant is now.

 

By being in a good spot, I mean that there are multiple strong builds for every game mode.  Consider:

 

PvE - Raids:

Alacrigade - A staple of the meta for quite a while.  Even with the nerf to Soulcleave Summit, this is still a must for most groups.

Condi Alacrigade - The same, but for condi fights

Condi Ren DPS - Even as it has been toned down, it's still one of the stronger condi DPS builds

Boon Herald - Often overlooked, but it's still a solid build for a lot of groups.  Teapot even made a vid recently highlighting this build.

Power Ren - Might not be worth mentioning here, but a straight Power Ren can actually do some pretty decent DPS that's not far off from other basic power builds.

 

PvE - Fractals:

Alacrigade - A staple of any group.  Arguably, the worst thing about this is getting stuck in alacrigade jail because of how vital this is to groups, but it at least guarantees a spot.

Condi Alacrigade - The same, but for condi fights

Arguably, the rest of the raid builds are viable here, but admittedly they're not as strong as other classes options in most cases.

 

PvP:

Herald Roamer - A long time strong build for PvP.  Despite being nerfed, it's still in a very good spot overall as a good roamer and team fighter.  The biggest downside is likely the high skill floor compared to other PvP builds for other professions.

Shiro Short Bow Renegade - Despite Kalla short bow builds being nerfed, the Shiro build has remained strong as one of the best team fight builds in the meta.

 

WvW:

Herald Hammer - Still one of the main go-to DPS builds for zergs.  They may have nerfed hammer a million times, but it's still one of the best ranged damage weapons in WvW because of it's projectile-less damage and solid cleave.

Herald Roamer - A solid roamer build

Shiro Short Bow Roamer - Another solid roamer option

 

 

There have been builds nerfed out of popular use for sure, such as most condi builds in PvP, so there's surely plenty of rev players salty with the current meta, but we're still in a place where a revenant is desirable if not considered indispensable for every game mode and at the same time, there are multiple build options for those same game modes.  Enjoy it now because when the next round of elite specs gets released, there's no guarantee we'll have the same flexibility.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Dahkeus.8243

[Virdo.1540]

i ,as a herald player, appreciate having an Condi Rene, Power Rene, Heal rene, Condi Alac rene, Power alac rene

and boon herald

[Telgum.6071]

I did a post like this one some weeks ago. Yeah, if you main revenant then you can perform from great to perfect in every single gamemode unlike warrior or ranger. 

 

This subforum is a river of salt with secretly guardian players complaining about renegade.

[Buran.3796]

On 6/22/2021 at 10:02 PM, Virdo.1540 said:

i ,as a herald player, appreciate having an Condi Rene, Power Rene, Heal rene, Condi Alac rene, Power alac rene

and boon herald

  Herald is good outside the hammer, and I sometimes even use the hammer in Conquest PvP because in this meta with no damage a lot of builds have problems trying to kill him.

[Infusion.7149]

On 6/22/2021 at 6:23 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

I did a post like this one some weeks ago. Yeah, if you main revenant then you can perform from great to perfect in every single gamemode unlike warrior or ranger. 

 

This subforum is a river of salt with secretly guardian players complaining about renegade.

Yes it seems some players actually don't play the class because "herald is a 30K spec" when you run Draconic Echo instead of Forceful Persistence (the actual DPS option which is +13% strike damage or +4% per facet). That doesn't even include the +250 power you get if you run Notoriety when there is renegade in your party providing Assassin's Presence.

Teapot recently covered it in depth too.

Meanwhile condi renegade is essentially top DPS right now when you can't abuse confusion and can run RR if you need alacrity.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Yes it seems some players actually don't play the class because "herald is a 30K spec" when you run Draconic Echo instead of Forceful Persistence (the actual DPS option which is +13% strike damage or +4% per facet). That doesn't even include the +250 power you get if you run Notoriety when there is renegade in your party providing Assassin's Presence.

Teapot recently covered it in depth too.

Meanwhile condi renegade is essentially top DPS right now when you can't abuse confusion and can run RR if you need alacrity.

 

Out of curiosity, do you know if there is a benchmark for running Noto & FP? Not good enough to bench anything like that so am curious.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

 

Out of curiosity, do you know if there is a benchmark for running Noto & FP? Not good enough to bench anything like that so am curious.

It was just under 31K solo before the changes to affect life steal on May 11

Used in an actual raid:

Same person had power renegade benching 32K (with a larger burst at beginning obviously due to Citadel Bombardment + Icerazor) around January 2021 before lifesteal changes.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[ArthurDent.9538]

12 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It was just under 31K solo before the changes to affect life steal on May 11

Used in an actual raid:

Same person had power renegade benching 32K (with a larger burst at beginning obviously due to Citadel Bombardment + Icerazor) around January 2021 before lifesteal changes.

The devastation nerfs hit this build's dps much harder than the lifesteal damage buffs especially considering herald doesn't run any battle scars traits for max dps so net damage was nerfed about 3.5%. Pre-patch glint shiro was a bit under 32k with max personal damage build and realistic boons (linked vid is all buffs which does matter because herald gets 1% damage per boon and perma all boons is not realistic) post patch max dps herald is sub 31k but someone might be able to do a little better than me. It's pretty much trash as a dps considering low burst, low cleave, low sustained damage and almost full melee. But it has big cc at the expense of a large damage loss and some basic boon support so apparently people are trying to convince the world it's actually good and should never be buffed up to banner warrior levels damage levels even though I've never been in a raid group that really would have cared for herald boon support other than maybe prot which is easily covered by omnipresent stone spirit or renegade or firebrand or tempest, so easily replaceable.

[otto.5684]

Ya, renegade is extremely good in pve nowadays. 

[Scoobaniec.9561]

This posts literally reads like some meme. Its good time to play revenant:

rene

rene

rene

rene

some more rene

 

Anyways thanks for laugh

[Infusion.7149]

3 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

This posts literally reads like some meme. Its good time to play revenant:

rene

rene

rene

rene

some more rene

 

Anyways thanks for laugh

Sounds like someone doesn't play WVW or PVP.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

29 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Sounds like someone doesn't play WVW or PVP.

If you talk about me.. i dont play the game at all. Enjoy

[Infusion.7149]

15 hours ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

The devastation nerfs hit this build's dps much harder than the lifesteal damage buffs especially considering herald doesn't run any battle scars traits for max dps so net damage was nerfed about 3.5%. Pre-patch glint shiro was a bit under 32k with max personal damage build and realistic boons (linked vid is all buffs which does matter because herald gets 1% damage per boon and perma all boons is not realistic) post patch max dps herald is sub 31k but someone might be able to do a little better than me. It's pretty much trash as a dps considering low burst, low cleave, low sustained damage and almost full melee. But it has big cc at the expense of a large damage loss and some basic boon support so apparently people are trying to convince the world it's actually good and should never be buffed up to banner warrior levels damage levels even though I've never been in a raid group that really would have cared for herald boon support other than maybe prot which is easily covered by omnipresent stone spirit or renegade or firebrand or tempest, so easily replaceable.

By that logic spellbreaker should be buffed because it does less damage than berserker or power druid/scourge/mirage needs buffs (lol)... They usually balance based off class, not based on spec exclusively hence balance notes are by profession. If anything berserkers (and with banners) are slightly overperforming in PvE exclusively by a few percent at best with standardized boons, not heralds under-performing. The patch notes stated that the Great Fortitude trait was supposed to scale from vitality not power.

For example,

• power DH Virtues (inflated by aegis +20%) = 40K otherwise ~ 33K without the aegis
• power rifle deadeye with minimal cleave = 39K , no support aspects
• full DPS Berserker with axes and Greatsword = ~37.6K (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJMk3L9Is0 )
• power holo sword = ~37.5K , no support aspects
• power holo rifle = ~37K , no support aspects
• Weaver = ~37K , no support aspects
• power core guard (inflated by aegis +20%) = ~36.5K otherwise ~ 30K
• Soulbeast with Greatsword ~ 36.5K
• power tempest on large hitbox ~36.5K
• power Chrono with long ramp time = 36K without dangertime
• Soulbeast with longbow = 35-36K depending on which site you look at
• power DH radiance = ~35.5K
• power daredevil = ~35K
• power renegade full DPS = ~35K <--- (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyhxmCXVnzM )
• power reaper = ~34K
• power BS = ~33.5K
• power scrapper = ~32.5K
• power BS spellbreaker ~31K
  power BS tactics ~30K
• celestial meme alac = ~30K with 79% boon duration
• power alac ~28K.5 on large hitbox
• StM chrono ~28K with large ramp time
• Quickness scrapper ~27K

If you're talking about realistic boons by the way, you lose 10% damage on weaver and berserker if you don't have swiftness which is often supplied by druids' warhorn. That won't be reflected in official benchmarks because they use swiftness.

In terms of buffs the only likely change I could see happening is more PvE might stacks on herald.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Telgum.6071]

57 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

If you talk about me.. i dont play the game at all. Enjoy

LMAO. Literally the average forum user crying about the revenant state

[Scoobaniec.9561]

13 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

LMAO. Literally the average forum user crying about the revenant state

Speak to me when you will reach my level during prime when i was active winning duels vs pros back then from teams like Orange Logo. We both know it never gonna happen so 👋

[Telgum.6071]

3 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Speak to me when you will reach my level during prime when i was active winning duels vs pros back then from teams like Orange Logo. We both know it never gonna happen so 👋

What are you even talking about, can't I just laugh about a player who has been crying about revenant state for weeks that doesn't play the game at all? You can be all the good you want, it doesn't matter, your attitude speaks enough about you.

But yeah dude you are so good, revenant literally unplayable.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Just now, Telgum.6071 said:

What are you even talking about, can't I just laugh about a player who has been crying about revenant state for weeks that doesn't play the game at all? You can be all the good you want, it doesn't matter, your attitude speaks enough about you.

But yeah dude you are so good, revenant literally unplayable.

Idc if revenant is good or not when its nothing like it was advertised and sold as these days compared to 2015 (been here since launch). Besides id argue that Mallyx in current state is nowhere close to be playable, i dont have to play the game to see some kitten going on. Besides why play core rev/herald if renerade exists?

[Dahkeus.8243]

6 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

This posts literally reads like some meme. Its good time to play revenant:

rene

rene

rene

rene

some more rene

 

Anyways thanks for laugh

 

Did you read the post?  There's Herald builds that are strong if not ideal for all game modes.  Fractals is the only place where that's a bit more in question, although you could easily clear it all (including challenge modes) as a herald if you really wanted. 

 

For WvW, herald is in general *better* than rene and in PvP, they're both on par depending on enemy team comp.

 

For raids, herald is an S tier when it comes to raid carry:

 

So unless your knowledge of PvE starts and ends at the SnowCrows benchmark page, there's literally no reason to throw a pity party about Herald.  It's one of the strongest elite specs in the game across the board.

[ArthurDent.9538]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

By that logic spellbreaker should be buffed because it does less damage than berserker or power druid/scourge/mirage needs buffs (lol)... They usually balance based off class, not based on spec exclusively hence balance notes are by profession. If anything berserkers (and with banners) are slightly overperforming in PvE exclusively by a few percent at best with standardized boons, not heralds under-performing. The patch notes stated that the Great Fortitude trait was supposed to scale from vitality not power.

For example,

• power DH Virtues (inflated by aegis +20%) = 40K otherwise ~ 33K without the aegis
• power rifle deadeye with minimal cleave = 39K , no support aspects
• full DPS Berserker with axes and Greatsword = ~37.6K (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJMk3L9Is0 )
• power holo sword = ~37.5K , no support aspects
• power holo rifle = ~37K , no support aspects
• Weaver = ~37K , no support aspects
• power core guard (inflated by aegis +20%) = ~36.5K otherwise ~ 30K
• Soulbeast with Greatsword ~ 36.5K
• power tempest on large hitbox ~36.5K
• power Chrono with long ramp time = 36K without dangertime
• Soulbeast with longbow = 35-36K depending on which site you look at
• power DH radiance = ~35.5K
• power daredevil = ~35K
• power renegade full DPS = ~35K <--- (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyhxmCXVnzM )
• power reaper = ~34K
• power BS = ~33.5K
• power scrapper = ~32.5K
• power BS spellbreaker ~31K
  power BS tactics ~30K
• celestial meme alac = ~30K with 79% boon duration
• power alac ~28K.5 on large hitbox
• StM chrono ~28K with large ramp time
• Quickness scrapper ~27K

If you're talking about realistic boons by the way, you lose 10% damage on weaver and berserker if you don't have swiftness which is often supplied by druids' warhorn. That won't be reflected in official benchmarks because they use swiftness.

In terms of buffs the only likely change I could see happening is more PvE might stacks on herald.

 

By your logic anet should just gut spellbreaker because all warriors should just play berserker. In rev's case we should all just play renegade. Like I don't want herald to be a 40kdps juggernaught especially with dance of death giving so much sustain for minimal dps loss (anet pls buff swift termination or nerf battle scars and buff other damage sources) but right now you can be barely competent and out dps a perfectly played herald because herald is like 15-30% behind the rest of it's competition which is huge. That's 1-3 dps grandmaster traits extra worth of damage you have to make up for and it just doesn't keep up with remotely competent players on good builds.

 

And herald actually has the makings for a dps build, forceful persistence and reinforced potency are good dps traits while burst of strength and elemental blast (chaotic release to a lesser extent) are your big damage legend skills but along with sword power coefficients the overall kit is just tuned too low to do decent damage. For most of its life in pvp + wvw it has filled dps rolls but has just never been given the tuning to be decent for it in pve I guess because anet for some reason thinks being able to supply 5 of the most common boons in the game that can be found on tons of builds makes it a support.

 

It's funny how all of a sudden people like Tpot are coming out and saying herald boon support is great even though it hasn't really changed other than a few net damage nerfs over the past 2 years. Did people all of a sudden forget the dozens of other potential sources of fury, might, swiftness, and prot (boon herald doesn't even upkeep regen and only perma maintains swiftness + a few stacks of might unless hitting personal dps hard with high boon duration + draconic echo or camping facets)? If people actually cared about the facet of nature boon duration why did no one ever run banner of tactics even though it also gives healing power in addition to comparable boon duration while losing just one utility slot on a class that every raid group runs? Herald is only seeing light right now because of it's small niche of being able to mostly replace a druid's boons while bringing a bit more damage and staff 5 cc (the herald equivalent to thief shortbow 5 from pvp) in  yolo no  heal comps for slothasaur + samarog and now people are trying to convince the world it is great in general when it's really just either niche or only good for really bad players because yeah dance of death adds a ton of sustain for very small damage loss though ren is even worse for this because it's way more sustain than herald and dps gain. How dare we be unhappy about being left as a super niche pseudo support build only good for 10 man content and barely good at that while renegade is just better almost everywhere.

[Infusion.7149]

You keep making it out to be unplayable or something when it isn't. Even in the video above the person playing it was like 2nd in DPS.
Also the variant running Draconic Echo (the one on snowcrows) is 10 man boons with no investment in boon duration. In fact you're wrong about the "past two years" since the 10 man boons in PvE without running draconic echo was only as of Dec 2020.

Do you really think if they upped herald DPS people would ask specifically for heralds? They don't ask for power renegades either. People don't ask for power DH specifically, power scrapper, power spellbreaker, nor do they ask for power soulbeast specifically. There will always be one spec that is stronger in PVE.

Revenants have it far better than classes such as thieves which aren't even wanted in any PVE mode right now except to pick lock at samarog, do lamp / pylon,  and maybe help out on Matthias if people can't deal with conditions using HB+druid.

It is highly unlikely spellbreaker will be touched as people are more likely to run core warrior than spellbreaker in PVE unless the full counter + boon rip is wanted.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[ArthurDent.9538]

28 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You keep making it out to be unplayable or something when it isn't. Even in the video above the person playing it was like 2nd in DPS.
Also the variant running Draconic Echo (the one on snowcrows) is 10 man boons with no investment in boon duration. In fact you're wrong about the "past two years" since the 10 man boons in PvE without running draconic echo was only as of Dec 2020.

Do you really think if they upped herald DPS people would ask specifically for heralds? They don't ask for power renegades either. People don't ask for power DH specifically, power scrapper, power spellbreaker, nor do they ask for power soulbeast specifically. There will always be one spec that is stronger in PVE.

Revenants have it far better than classes such as thieves which aren't even wanted in any PVE mode right now except to pick lock at samarog, do lamp / pylon,  and maybe help out on Matthias if people can't deal with conditions using HB+druid.

It is highly unlikely spellbreaker will be touched as people are more likely to run core warrior than spellbreaker in PVE unless the full counter + boon rip is wanted.

 

The whole argument of saying something is playable and thus fine is just dumb. Dhuum cm, the hardest raid encounter in the game, has been cleared with a squad of 5 people, there is no way a build can be so bad that taking it would be worse than literally running with only half of the squad, and thus balance doesn't matter because everything can complete all the pve content in this game. With that being said herald has a fairly long history of being as close to unplayable in raids as possible as most groups used to kick anyone who tried.

 

All I want is to be able to play power herald as a dps and not get completely blown away by every other dps build that isn't played by completely incompetent people (yes competence level is a spectrum and people will have different definitions of where the line is to be incompetent). Yes I watched the teapot vid the times he was second top dps there was a holo or berserker doing like 30% more which is a huge margin and I can assure you it isn't because holo/berserker are particularly op, it simply comes down to the rest of the dps players in that group were all significantly subpar to be nice tbh teapot's herald gameplay was also very  unrefined and he could pull much better numbers with cleaner rotations and energy management.

 

I don't expect groups to start specifically requesting dps heralds, in fact I don't expect pug groups to be requesting specific dps builds at all unless Anet has failed at balance and there is only 1 or 2 good dps builds that simply outclass the rest by a wide margin. Right now herald is the opposite, it is an outlier on the low end of the dps spectrum, in fact the second lowest dps of all the elite specs only beating out druid which has almost no synergy with dps builds and is instead an actual support juggernaut unlike herald.

 

What I would think would be a reasonable balance goal would be where average groups to ask for generic dps and there be a variety of specs that can do competitive dps fill that spot. Speed-run statics will always try to minmax the optimal damage builds and I so I wouldn't worry about that much and as I have said I don't expect herald to be absolute top dps as it has some other redeeming qualities which we all know about. However, herald currently doesn't succeed at reaching competitive damage levels, the margin is too wide as it doesn't require people to be good at the other dps builds to out dps herald benchmark numbers currently. For example it took me 1 try on power weaver without even bothering to look up the meta build/rotation and not bothering to use food to out dps my herald benchmark regardless of how much eles like  complaining about how hard their rotation is, imagine if I actually did some research and practiced playing weaver.

 

Lastly 10 Man boons without draconic echo is new, but it doesn't change much because the dps is still trash tier hence why draconic echo is still the default trait choice for SC/Teapot guide it just comes down to trash dps with more boons vs. a bit better but still trash dps with less boons.

[SeTect.5918]

7 hours ago, Dahkeus.8243 said:

 

Did you read the post?  There's Herald builds that are strong if not ideal for all game modes.  Fractals is the only place where that's a bit more in question, although you could easily clear it all (including challenge modes) as a herald if you really wanted. 

 

For WvW, herald is in general *better* than rene and in PvP, they're both on par depending on enemy team comp.

 

For raids, herald is an S tier when it comes to raid carry:

 

So unless your knowledge of PvE starts and ends at the SnowCrows benchmark page, there's literally no reason to throw a pity party about Herald.  It's one of the strongest elite specs in the game across the board.

You are saying: it is one of the strongest elite specs in the game. 

And then u talk about wvw, pvp And raids. 

 

Imagine a player does not play wvw and pvp. The only thing u can do better than rene is raids with that spec. Not even sure about that due to alac or rene as dps which is also very good in raids. 

Renegade is better in everything in pve than herald if it comes not to raids. 

Power dps - Renegade 

Condi dps - Renegade 

Boon support - Renegade, except in raids, there herald

Sustain - Renegade 

Open world solo - Renegade 

Did I forget something? I dont know but - Renegade 

 

U see the difference? An elite spec should not be made if it is relevant in 1 pve content since anet cares mostly only about PvE. 

In wvw and pvp condi rene is also better than condi Herald. 

 

What you said was: power herald is better in wvw and pvp. Boon support herald is better in raids too. 

 

Whats with the other 10 content? 

And then u say that herald is one of the best elite specs in game. U must be kidding. 

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

 

The whole argument of saying something is playable and thus fine is just dumb. Dhuum cm, the hardest raid encounter in the game, has been cleared with a squad of 5 people, there is no way a build can be so bad that taking it would be worse than literally running with only half of the squad, and thus balance doesn't matter because everything can complete all the pve content in this game. With that being said herald has a fairly long history of being as close to unplayable in raids as possible as most groups used to kick anyone who tried.

 

All I want is to be able to play power herald as a dps and not get completely blown away by every other dps build that isn't played by completely incompetent people (yes competence level is a spectrum and people will have different definitions of where the line is to be incompetent). Yes I watched the teapot vid the times he was second top dps there was a holo or berserker doing like 30% more which is a huge margin and I can assure you it isn't because holo/berserker are particularly op, it simply comes down to the rest of the dps players in that group were all significantly subpar to be nice tbh teapot's herald gameplay was also very  unrefined and he could pull much better numbers with cleaner rotations and energy management.

 

I don't expect groups to start specifically requesting dps heralds, in fact I don't expect pug groups to be requesting specific dps builds at all unless Anet has failed at balance and there is only 1 or 2 good dps builds that simply outclass the rest by a wide margin. Right now herald is the opposite, it is an outlier on the low end of the dps spectrum, in fact the second lowest dps of all the elite specs only beating out druid which has almost no synergy with dps builds and is instead an actual support juggernaut unlike herald.

 

What I would think would be a reasonable balance goal would be where average groups to ask for generic dps and there be a variety of specs that can do competitive dps fill that spot. Speed-run statics will always try to minmax the optimal damage builds and I so I wouldn't worry about that much and as I have said I don't expect herald to be absolute top dps as it has some other redeeming qualities which we all know about. However, herald currently doesn't succeed at reaching competitive damage levels, the margin is too wide as it doesn't require people to be good at the other dps builds to out dps herald benchmark numbers currently. For example it took me 1 try on power weaver without even bothering to look up the meta build/rotation and not bothering to use food to out dps my herald benchmark regardless of how much eles like  complaining about how hard their rotation is, imagine if I actually did some research and practiced playing weaver.

 

Lastly 10 Man boons without draconic echo is new, but it doesn't change much because the dps is still trash tier hence why draconic echo is still the default trait choice for SC/Teapot guide it just comes down to trash dps with more boons vs. a bit better but still trash dps with less boons.

The other video running Forceful Persistence was actually top DPS at times...

You do realize unless they nerf Renegade power damage modifiers as well as Icerazor, renegade will still have superior burst from Citadel Bombardment + Icerazor (6.0 coefficient on 12 cooldown) ? If anything, condi RR at ~37K DPS is sort of broken right now given something like a condi soulbeast is less than that.

Easy math, if a DPS berserker does 37K as a full DPS spec and you lose 10% from not having swiftness, it's around 34K without swiftness played optimally so a power BS is around 30K too without swiftness. That puts a power BS roughly at the power herald level and they perform similar functions as neither provide quickness/alac/healing. In addition, a tactics BS with swiftness is already at that level.

Comparing to holo is also sort of moot since it provides no form of party support compared to herald. It doesn't even generate appreciable fury for itself. Pre 2019 holo was a ~33K spec before explosives rework along with a Laser's Edge buff which was later scaled back in May 11 2021 patch due to Glass Cannon being increased. Pre 2019 herald was 33K on snowcrows at the same period when reaper was ~28K

Spoiler

 

The same goes for power fresh air tempest, if you run Zephyr's Boon to give people fury you drop 10% damage from ferocity loss currently and as it is highly RNG reliant you probably wouldn't run it on anything with a small hitbox anyway. That puts the damage on it around 32-33K tops as you need to run water traitline instead of fire.

There's also been records running herald over druid on Samarog, for example right before May 11 2021 patch (

Spoiler

 

)

You'd bring herald over renegade for 10 man fury, might, and swiftness. Therefore the logical conclusion is any buff would likely be to might generation which is something lacking when you run scrapper/StM chrono alike. The design situation is such that boon output is part of herald, so the only way it would be appreciable DPS any more than ~30-33K is if the boon output is traded off in a trait (i.e. no boons for others in exchange for ~15% more DPS as Forceful Persistence should have been able to attain before the 10 man boon change).

P.S. every profession subforum seems like an echo chamber. It's really getting old to be honest.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

5 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

. Pre 2019 herald was 33K on snowcrows at the same period when reaper was ~28K

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I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous to list a 33k benchmark from Herald that had to abuse a bug with the targeting system of the game to get those numbers.  This was clearly bugged and never intended to be able to be achieved, much like Bell Holo, Bell Rev, etc., just not to as absurd a level as any of those.  Citing it as an example of a time when "Herald was strong and balanced" is absurd

[ArthurDent.9538]

I don't even know why I respond to this still but I don't know why you keep trying to justify herald's performance by bringing up how good renegade is, f**** renegade I've always despised that espec and how all herald's shortfalls are justified by renegade being good and it's worse now because now renegade is even the superior pvp spec now.  I don't know how you can't understand how it is very realistic for a berserker/weaver to have perma swiftness in a raid (herald not required, there are so many  other ways to get swiftness) while a herald having all 12 boons in a raid is not at all realistic. I don't know why you keep bringing up 2+ year old balance situations, hell your class comparisons all support my point, when other specs drop their damage traits for some boon support they still out dps max dps herald and where other classes received 10% buffs over the years herald has received 10% nerfs, thanks for supporting my case. Lastly once more I already have mentioned the samarog record (sloth record too) its a fairly niche situation where damage pressure is low enough they didn't need a healer (I'm curious if the strat is still viable since soulcleave nerf) and a huge amount of cc on a large hitbox is required because of the very frequent large breakbars on large hitbox targets that must be broken. Saying herald is in a good spot because it filledba niche roll in two record runs is disingenuous, it's not remotely close to being meta competitive on pretty much any of the other encounters unless we want to go down the deimos rabbit hole.

Edited June 25, 2021 by ArthurDent.9538