For the love of thief. Nerf daredevil!

[Myror.7521]

@Caedmon.6798 a yea the typical i dont even read the whole text answer lovely guy 🙂

[Myror.7521]

@Dan.2940 No i don't playing this class on a "pro" lvl if you mean that. But as I said before if you don't want to get it nerfed in mobility ways you also shouldn't cry for a damage buff. Simply cause that will never happen .... not before it get some decent nerfs in ways of mobiliy or something like that.

[Puck.3697]

On 6/26/2021 at 5:35 AM, felix.2386 said:

 

daredevil is not only the most op class in high end organized tournament, but also in ranked carry

last season NA finishes with 4 thief in top 10.

 

just because you suck with daredevil, doesnt mean daredevil suck

 

 

didnt a bot also get into the top 10 on NA Lol? i remember Ajaxx tracking them. really aint standing for much there im afraid, Rangers number 1 on EU 😄

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Crab Fear.1624]

Who is daredevil broke against?

 

Like the power d/p daredevil?

 

I'll tell you who: unguarded nodes

 

 

[Puck.3697]

Just give thief a Elite specc which does More damage then Daredevil.. its a Easy fix.. u dont need to nerf Daredevil to give thief higher damage.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

5 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Just give thief a Elite specc which does More damage then Daredevil.. its a Easy fix.. u dont need to nerf Daredevil to give thief higher damage.

why ? so itll get watered down when all the forum plebs and thief haters ask for it to be nerfed because its too "op?" no thank you. people do enough whining on these forums, support spec or gtfo.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230
language

[Keitaro Dragonheart.9047]

6 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

why ? so itll get watered down when all the forum plebs and thief haters ask for it to be nerfed because its too "op?" no thank you. people do enough whining on these forums, support spec or gtfo.

Bold of you to assume those same care bears won't cry for nerfs to a support spec, too. Regardless of what we get, those same cry babies will kick, and scream, and cry, no matter what kind of Spec Anet gives us. Honestly, the only surprising part is that they're not already up in arms demanding nerfs to the as-of-yet unreleased EoD Spec.

[Sindrener.1592]

buff daredevil x2

Edited June 28, 2021 by bluri.2653
2x post

[Sindrener.1592]

On 6/26/2021 at 6:35 AM, felix.2386 said:

its not daredevil is not op, u just suck sry.

 

daredevil is literally the most broken spec right now in pvp.

if you ask bluri the most thief bias top player in the game seriously, he might even tell you that daredevil is op at this point.

while 90% of the mAT winners in both region think that daredevil is broken.

 

daredevil is not only the most op class in high end organized tournament, but also in ranked carry

last season NA finishes with 4 thief in top 10.

 

just because you suck with daredevil, doesnt mean daredevil suck

 

 

ur as delusional as trevor its pretty fun to watch

[Puck.3697]

54 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

why ? so itll get watered down when all the forum plebs and thief haters ask for it to be nerfed because its too "op?" no thank you. people do enough whining on these forums, support spec or gtfo.

 

aye, "Support specc" Really did Mesmer well?.. oh wait, it got nerfed into the ground and Remade eventually lol. heres a Newsflash. thief is a High mobility proffession with invisiability and ports.. its going to get Watered down via Crying forum plebs regardless of what thief gets.

 

but the point is. if u want Thief to actually do something other then decap and +1 Fights... it needs to be through a Elite so it can trade off the other things for it without nerfing daredevil.

 

u get a Support specc its gonna be chrono 2.0. thief will get hard nerfed repeatively by the end of it and you'll be reverting to Daredevil like im sorry, but it'll happen.

 

Also DPS / Utility hybrid exists..

 

Mirage is a DPS / Utility, Soulbeast is a DPS / Utility, Scourge is a DPS / utility. they still do more damage then daredevil.

 

i aint saying dont give thief a Supportive nature, been proven by Firebrand and more.. you can be a Quickness / Boon generator and Still be a 40k DPS Specc and its gonna be equal to these other options.

 

a new elite would mean Back down to base 2 Dodges, Loss of Dodge Damage Which results in Less Evades, it also loses Swipe. they can easily make thief lose enough to justify the changes.

 

Support builds and options are done through trait options.. not by pushing the entire specc into One pidgeon hole and forcing it upon the specc.. thats bad game design.. no one wants a "Pure support" in GW2. roles dont exist. and builds forced into this are considered "Jail" for a reason. Give us a hybrid Specc. Something capable of Multiple builds. so we can create DPS builds / utility builds From it.

 

if we want healing. Rework the current healing Trait line we have to be better. Dont create a Second one to fall behind Druid and other options, theres already a Healing build to cover basically everything u need between em.. theres 0 Unique options for a Pure Support for thief.. ur gonna be a carbon copy of some other build which will likely be Worse then them. because u can stealth.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[frareanselm.1925]

After seeing the benchmark of snowcrows I'm quite indignated. Pwer weaver aka the pianist should be in top DPS due its complex rotations, and effort should be rewarded, but no, in small hitbow power weaver is in 14th place... pathetic.

And the meme condi daredevil spamming death blossom and dodge is top DPS...

 

It seems Anet want us to play braindead builds. The next meta will be shortbow condi soulbeast.

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

After seeing the benchmark of snowcrows I'm quite indignated. Pwer weaver aka the pianist should be in top DPS due its complex rotations, and effort should be rewarded, but no, in small hitbow power weaver is in 14th place... pathetic.

And the meme condi daredevil spamming death blossom and dodge is top DPS...

 

It seems Anet want us to play braindead builds. The next meta will be shortbow condi soulbeast.

 

i disagree, Difficulty Should never come into the equasion when balancing a MMORPG. U alienate ur playerbase doing this. and the game would bleed Players Like no tomorrow.

 

Did wildstar teach u nothing? Cater to the hardcore and ur game will die, there aint enough players on that sorta Level to realistically fill a game.

 

Weaver needs Buffs. Yes its place isnt acceptable.. but its not about its complexity, u choose a hard to play class becauise u enjoy harder challanges thats just factual. im sorry but no MMORPG balances this way.. not the surviving ones atleast.

 

also Power weaver isnt hard or complicated.. its far easier. Condi weaver is the harder build.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Crab Fear.1624]

whatever changes you make, keep them pve only

pve isn't competitive, but it sure sounds like it is

[Lucinellia.9247]

1 hour ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

i disagree, Difficulty Should never come into the equasion when balancing a MMORPG. U alienate ur playerbase doing this. and the game would bleed Players Like no tomorrow.

 

Did wildstar teach u nothing? Cater to the hardcore and ur game will die, there aint enough players on that sorta Level to realistically fill a game.

 

Weaver needs Buffs. Yes its place isnt acceptable.. but its not about its complexity, u choose a hard to play class becauise u enjoy harder challanges thats just factual. im sorry but no MMORPG balances this way.. not the surviving ones atleast.

 

also Power weaver isnt hard or complicated.. its far easier. Condi weaver is the harder build.

What an odd concept. You should provide some strong reasoning if you want to make a claim as bold as difficulty not impacting balancing in a game with no secondary system or additional power sources. Using Wildstar as an example for why things that are easier should do the highest DPS is really odd given that the issue with that game was not related to balance in the slightest but rather accessibility to the content via deliberate attunement requirements. Wildstar's demise has nothing to do with sensible class design (or otherwise).

 

If the difficult class can barely do much more on a golem, while performing worse in actual encounters while lacking CC and utility, what is the purpose of that class being more difficult? No one is seriously going to play it as something that is challenging needs a reasonable reward. There is evidence for this being an issue too if you look at the Profession distribution on https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/. People are not playing Weaver because it is too difficult for far too little.

There should be rewards for doing something more difficult - that isn't catering to the hardcore when easy and accessible specs remain at DPS levels that are much, much more than viable.

 

 

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

whatever changes you make, keep them pve only

pve isn't competitive, but it sure sounds like it is

 

apart from PvP is considered a Bot fest.. which ironically you can argue would also be a form of PvE.

 

everything in the game is Optionally competitive nothings competitive by nature.. PvP is only competitive.. if u are Competitive in PvP, plenty of people Spam Queues with 0 intention of trying, using realistic builds.. or even winning.

 

stop acting like changes are PvP is the only "competitive" Part of the game.. when half its population are either Bots, AFKs or people running around the middle of the map aimlessly attacking one another.. game lost its "competitiveness" back in like 2012 lol.

[Puck.3697]

11 minutes ago, Lucinellia.9247 said:

What an odd concept. You should provide some strong reasoning if you want to make a claim as bold as difficulty not impacting balancing in a game with no secondary system or additional power sources. Using Wildstar as an example for why things that are easier should do the highest DPS is really odd given that the issue with that game was not related to balance in the slightest but rather accessibility to the content via deliberate attunement requirements. Wildstar's demise has nothing to do with sensible class design (or otherwise).

 

If the difficult class can barely do much more on a golem, while performing worse in actual encounters while lacking CC and utility, what is the purpose of that class being more difficult? No one is seriously going to play it as something that is challenging needs a reasonable reward. There is evidence for this being an issue too if you look at the Profession distribution on https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/. People are not playing Weaver because it is too difficult for far too little.

There should be rewards for doing something more difficult - that isn't catering to the hardcore when easy and accessible specs remain at DPS levels that are much, much more than viable.

 

 

 

odd?

 

name a game where the hardest to play classes are the best performing ones?.

 

Because WoW most certainly isnt.. BM Hunter ( a rotation which can be macro'd to the wheel of ur mouse for optimal performance ) Was the best class in the game for 8.3 (1 year of content)

 

Rift, i remember strong Harbinger being stronger then pyro even tho pyro was multiple times harder with harbinger being a Random cleave roll.

 

FFXIV is certainly not either

 

the issues you highlight. have nothing to do with its Difficulty.

 

"performing barely as high as other classes while lacking CC and utility" is the problem the class suffers, as i stated in my post Elementalist needs buffs because its in a bad position currently.. not because of the difficulty that goes into playing the class.

 

are you new to games?

 

Anything but the top 2% of builds are Unviable... we boot people based on this stuff daily, and Gatekeep players from content because of this stuff all the time.. please learn how the players treat things.. either its BiS. or its Bad. thats the player perception of gaming.

 

no in no MMORPG currently on the market does the "hardest classes" Consistently perform the best im afraid. the reason Difficulty is different per proffession is to increase the accessibility, not to base rewards on.

 

your argument screechs to me make Elementalist easier to play  in all honesty. if its above the vast majorities ability to play.. or brings this sorta mentality.. its too hard and needs fundamentally making easier to play.

 

mmorpgs are about accessibility, not skill and PvE is DEFINTLY not about skill but the Social aspect of doing content with friends. Opinons relating to class Difficulty is a opinon not a fact lol, pklenty of people will tell u Weaver is Easy. if u go onto the Forums.. Someones Playing power Weaver BY THEIR NOSE CLICKING THE KEYS LOL.

 

i boosted ele as my very first character, i am a Elementalist.. and i can do 30k DPS With condi weaver within a very short period of time of learning it.. Im sorry.. but its a Repeating rotation, its not difficult. its muscle memory. weaver is just unforgiving to being new to the build.

 

your saying weavers Underpowered.. and your right, it needs buffs. i aint saying weavers Fine. what im saying is the problem with weaver is in the second half of your post and nothing to do with its difficulty lol, no one said Weaver dont need buffing what im saying is.. no MMORPG Dev in their right mind would

 

and Wildstar has nothing to do with it?

 

Wildstar LITTERALLY promoted the mentality your putting forward right now.. it died BECAUSE OF THAT MENTALITY...

Edited June 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lucinellia.9247]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

are you new to games?

your argument screechs

 

Amazing. Enjoy your ad hominems.

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Lucinellia.9247 said:

 

Amazing. Enjoy your ad hominems.

 

well it suprises me when people call things that are traditionally done by every MMORPG Title currently leading the market currently "odd".

 

WoW in its highest Peak fo players and Lowest playerbase. has never done this for any class, no class has ever been balanced based on the difficulty it holds.

 

FFXIV balances based on RDPS + PDPS class difficulty has nothing to do with it, Bard led a entire expansion yet is one of the easiest choices to play realistically.

 

Rift never has either.

 

ESO Defintly doesnt xD, the hardest choices in that game are ironically the Worse its litterally led meta wise by a Class which relys 100% On AI.

 

if u could give some examples of exactly where u beleive this concept of "Balancing based on difficulty" has be used outside of Wildstar in a Western MMORPG before i'd love to hear it. As i said.. no ones saying weavers "balanced" or strong enough it defintly does need buffing. imho. give it Stance sharing so it can provide barrier,. Add quickness to its Kit and give it better access to Might.

 

Im just saying hte reason u beleive it should be buffed is incorrect.. and a method thats never used in the genre.

 

your asking for "strong arguments to diffiiculty not swaying into balance".. yet theres no a Single example of where it has eben lol, WoW? FFXIV? ESO? Give me one example where a dev has Stated they feel the reward of more difficult classes should be higher then Easier options.

 

I presented my argument. I've given clear concise reasoning and examples of Balancing and Difficulty nto being tied.. these MMORPGS Dont lead the market because their "balancing ideas are odd". they lead the market. because they are the games Players wanna play. and u should be pushing ur game in that direction also if u want to see Success.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lucinellia.9247]

If you would like a discussion, I am very happy to do so!

 

First, edit your post for the ad hominem attacks and apologise. Until then, all you are doing is attempting to shout people down without addressing their arguments and incorrectly trying to compare balance in a game with no secondary systems, permanent BiS and easy alts to games with gear grind elements and additional power systems.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Lucinellia.9247

[Crab Fear.1624]

41 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

apart from PvP is considered a Bot fest.. which ironically you can argue would also be a form of PvE.

 

everything in the game is Optionally competitive nothings competitive by nature.. PvP is only competitive.. if u are Competitive in PvP, plenty of people Spam Queues with 0 intention of trying, using realistic builds.. or even winning.

 

stop acting like changes are PvP is the only "competitive" Part of the game.. when half its population are either Bots, AFKs or people running around the middle of the map aimlessly attacking one another.. game lost its "competitiveness" back in like 2012 lol.

These type of threads are usually started by pve complaints, specifically performance in raids.

 

Literally the smallest component to the game gets the most attention.

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

Nope, daredevil is fine, this is how it is designed. They can look at repeater, smoke screen, and shadow arts, but daredevil is A-OK.

[Puck.3697]

4 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

These type of threads are usually started by pve complaints, specifically performance in raids.

 

Literally the smallest component to the game gets the most attention.

 

 

 

ngl.. all the games small enough to be considered the "smallest".. if u removed all the bots from PvP im pretty certain it'd be TINY in popularity also.

[Puck.3697]

12 hours ago, Lucinellia.9247 said:

If you would like a discussion, I am very happy to do so!

 

First, edit your post for the ad hominem attacks and apologise. Until then, all you are doing is attempting to shout people down without addressing their arguments and incorrectly trying to compare balance in a game with no secondary systems, permanent BiS and easy alts to games with gear grind elements and additional power systems.

 

Without addressing your argument? 

 

Gw2 doesn't balance in this fashion either which is pretty provable?. I didn't call you any name or shout anything lol. 

 

And no. I strongly believe creating a meta like this alienates the playerbase, you create a meta which becomes even less accessible. Which drives more players out the game.

 

If elementalist is too hard simplify it. Easy answer. 

 

As for and homien attacks.. asking if someone's new isn't a attack nor a insult. I'm not gonna apologise for asking you if your new. 

 

It's not a incorrect comparison there's no discussion to be had.. litterally the game isn't balanced in that fashion. You proved it yourself when you stated Weavers bad compared to easier choices. 

 

It's just a clear definitive answer lol. Game isn't balanced at all in that fashion.. now you if you wanna beleive it should be you can go ahead. 

 

But Anet know this game has far more bad players then good players... And they stand more to lose making the game harder not easier. 

 

Difficulty is opinonated. U can't balance on it on a opinon 

 

I don't think weaver is any harder to.play then renegade or mesmer (excluding the staff meme build) 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lucinellia.9247]

Stating that someone is "new to games" or that their opinion is a "screech" is attacking the person, not the argument being put forward. These are ad hominen attacks.
 

Quote

are you new to games?

please learn how the players treat things

your argument screechs 

Given that your most recent post contains a number of straw arguments and putting words into the mouths of others, you can edit those too if you want a discussion. 
 

Quote

You proved it yourself when you stated Weavers bad compared to easier choices. 

now you if you wanna beleive it should be you can go ahead. 

Im just saying hte reason u beleive it should be buffed is incorrect

Please find where in my post I stated that Weaver is "bad". You'll note that I said no such thing - simply that it performs worse than other easier options and is underplayed as a result. That isn't an opinion. That is a fact which can be seen in the statistics on https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/. Please also note that a request for Weaver to be buffed is not stated anywhere in my post - that is entirely an argument created by yourself.

 

You should consider that you are basing your opinion regarding PvE balance on what happens in other games such as WoW and FFXIV.

 

In those games, the entire balance scenario is different due to the presence of progressively more powerful gear and secondary systems. Comparatively, GW2 has a static (with the caveat of new gear types) and highly accessible best-in-slot and no break points from gearing or additional power systems. Guild Wars 2 also has incredibly easy access to best-in-slot alts. WoW and FFXIV also have progressive raid tiers where the bosses are different, the challenges are different and how the fights are approached is different. In Guild Wars 2, we've been fighting the same bosses for between two and five and a half years. 

 

Contrasting balance in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar or really any other gear progression MMO against GW2 is an apples to porcupines comparison. The systems are so different and the ramifications are also different as a result.

 

Anyway, I am very happy to have a larger discussion but that won't happen until you remove your ad hominen arguments and avoid straw arguments. It is a pity. I am sure we could eventually have quite a few agreements on reducing difficulties, fair distribution of utility and improving accessibility. Have a lovely day.

 

 

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Lucinellia.9247 said:

Stating that someone is "new to games" or that their opinion is a "screech" is attacking the person, not the argument being put forward. These are ad hominen attacks.
 

Given that your most recent post contains a number of straw arguments and putting words into the mouths of others, you can edit those too if you want a discussion. 
 

Please find where in my post I stated that Weaver is "bad". You'll note that I said no such thing - simply that it performs worse than other easier options and is underplayed as a result. That isn't an opinion. That is a fact which can be seen in the statistics on https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/. Please also note that a request for Weaver to be buffed is not stated anywhere in my post - that is entirely an argument created by yourself.

 

You should consider that you are basing your opinion regarding PvE balance on what happens in other games such as WoW and FFXIV.

 

In those games, the entire balance scenario is different due to the presence of progressively more powerful gear and secondary systems. Comparatively, GW2 has a static (with the caveat of new gear types) and highly accessible best-in-slot and no break points from gearing or additional power systems. Guild Wars 2 also has incredibly easy access to best-in-slot alts. WoW and FFXIV also have progressive raid tiers where the bosses are different, the challenges are different and how the fights are approached is different. In Guild Wars 2, we've been fighting the same bosses for between two and five and a half years. 

 

Contrasting balance in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar or really any other gear progression MMO against GW2 is an apples to porcupines comparison. The systems are so different and the ramifications are also different as a result.

 

Anyway, I am very happy to have a larger discussion but that won't happen until you remove your ad hominen arguments and avoid straw arguments. It is a pity. I am sure we could eventually have quite a few agreements on reducing difficulties, fair distribution of utility and improving accessibility. Have a lovely day.

 

 

 

I think I'm wording my statements badly. Which if so I apologise. 

 

my statement on weaver being in a bad place was more my own opinon as being a problem. I was just using the examples you gave with weaver doing barely anymore DPS then other options while having far less utility and CC 

 

Difficulty will always be a contribution, humans tend to take the path of least resistance. However I would add fractal/raid average DPS. Would show the vast majority of the playerbase is waaay below 50 percentile. Which means, everyone's finding every build hard to play and no build is showing to be "easier" in the vast majority of people's hands. 

 

I feel the reason other classes see success because there are easier components of their kits unlike weaver. 

 

For example. 

 

Elementalist is a super low passive defense proffession with access to lots of active defense. So while a bad player on a other class would be able to tank the hit and at most loses alittle DPS. Weavers will outright die..

 

And while alac ren for example most cannot get remotely close to its DPS averages, it holds alacrity through the use of a single button used on CD.

 

I think Weaver has alot of negative energy around. It's depicted in a very bad state and considered a meme. This means old players are angry at what elementalist has become and discourages new players trying the proffession because of the information on the proffession currently. 

 

I think this is largely because. Core ele is outright bad, Tempest lacks compared to firebrand in what it can offer as a support, and because players by nature struggle hitting damage ceilings with any build of any proffession.. 

 

My ask for stance sharing so it could provide barrier to the group. And 10 man quickness when attuning to air was more my opinons on some ways to implement some easy mechanics into the weaver to increase its benefits at the ground floor as I feel increasing its damage doesn't help the vast majority of who play the proffession. 

 

Statistically. Elementalist is the 5th most popular class in the game by both character count and player hour count. So I disagree with it being unpopular I think it's more the case there's 0 demand for a weaver for any content in the game being the reason we see less of them. 

 

I the other day ended up in a 5 man weaver group by lfg. There's plenty of us around, it's just no one wants us.. 

 

If Anet give weaver some stuff which creates a demand for the build I think naturally we will see more Weavers in content. But atm most players are asked to swap to their scourge or something. 

 

If we even look at players vote such as the one on people's favorite elites. Weaver is in the top 3 of the votes. 

 

I dont wanna see elementalist become easymode. I don't think anyone wants that but I do think there are ways to give elementalist some QoL and tools which would help. 

 

I saw a build on the ele discord which was very easy to play. It was a sceptar build which did 33k DPS. But it's unknown by many. In reality if Ur doing 33k DPS Ur doubling Ur raids DPS effectively. As the averages are so low. But it's unused. 

 

My statements were never susposed to be a attack at you, more that the average GW2 player still keyboard turns and physically clicks abilities.. with balancing the game to make weaver the golden child based on difficulty for higher reward. 

 

It'd passively pressure the playerbase to reroll just as every top choice has done prior. And I think Anet would lose a large chunk of its playerbase with that direction

 

 Imho it will sound mad. But I think if they revert the staff nerfs, and return the 47k DPS staff weaver to the game. It will fix the problems by alot. Weaver back in its staff meta at the start of PoF was multitudes more popular then what it is now. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Daddy.8125