New to GW2, playing DD and get blamed for losing all the time. Am I missing something?

[ACGOG.9572]

Howdy,

So I'm relatively new to GW2. I rolled a Revenant because they looked fun but they're not quite the class I thought they were, which is fine. I then decided to roll a Thief and boy-oh-boy are the mechanics fun, challenging, and over time seem to be very rewarding - when played right. I want to get better at it as it's listed as a meta-spec due to the fact that it can help swing games.

I went with the DD D/P spec because of the mobility and have been practicing in order to get better for when I can do ranked. I've watched a bunch of streamers (I've been trying to play like a gentleman by the name of Sindrener), how-to guides, etc., and in Conquest Practice focus on ninjaing points and killing stragglers in between. I also jump into team fights where I can, but if it's 1v3 or 2v4, while I do my best to help out, if it looks like it's a losing battle I'll skip out and head to the objective instead of dying.

However, I get blamed for the team losing - a lot. Like, a lot a lot. That I'm not doing my job right, or I have a PvE spec (I don't), or I'm bad at what I'm doing, that I should be helping more somehow. This never happens on my Rev, or my Ranger, or my Necro - only on my DD.

Am I doing something wrong? Is there something that I missed? Should I be team fighting more? I thought I was doing a good job as I almost always get the Offense icon (for whatever it's worth) but if I need to change something up I'm glad to.

Appreciate it, and any advice would be great.

[Allarius.5670]

Blame the thief is an accurate meme, but it is still just a meme. It sounds like you are working hard at improving and taking many good steps, keep doing that. Reflect on your decisions and see if there isn't something you can learn, but many of these comments aren't likely worth a grain of salt. Keep doing you.

[shadowpass.4236]

From what I just read, it seems like you're rotating fine and have the right mindset for playing thief in conquest.  I'd suggest googling "gw2 welcome to pvp discord" and joining it so you can ask people there for additional help.  There, you could even upload gameplay to youtube or send it to one of the coaches to go over if they have the time.

 

I also agree with Allarius, just keep practicing and you'll be fine. 👍

[RedAvenged.5217]

Too much of the quick fixes you find from guides or streamers can actually be bad for your gameplay.

Thief especially isn’t something you will learn very fast from these sources.

 

You have to remember that the best play is always what wins the game. In random yolo q it’s also often the “most efficient thing”- which is actually the only reason thief’s are “supposed to decap”- becuz that’s the fastest thing to do in the spare time on the class.

 

keep working on it but don’t take too much at face value.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

I find there are a lot of people who only look at the map after they die. They will often use hindsight to blame the thief for wasting time in a fight instead of decapping, or blame you for decapping instead of peeling, etc. Your effectiveness as thief is very dependent on how good you are at rotating and reading the current state of the map. Since thief has the tools and mobility to be very impactful in all kinds of situations, people will point blame onto you for making mistakes even if it wasnt entirely your fault. Being critical of yourself will help you improve, but listening to people who call you trash will usually make you perform worse. You will very rarely play perfectly so its important to consider how much value you get from the decisions you make in a game.

[Tycura.1982]

Don't commit to 1v1s unless you know you can secure a kill or are delaying a cap. Thief isn't meant to be a duelist.

 

Be aware of your rotations and go to where you're most needed. Your side noder stalled out on a 1v1 with it being his cap is less important than helping out in a team fight or decapping. If you find a duo it really helps to have them tell you when they want a +1.

 

Know when to leave as well. If a +1 becomes a 2v2 because something like a support rotated into you then it's often better to push where the support left. Your side noder should be built to be able to survive 1v2.

 

Work with your team to burst targets and know which ones are really weak to you. D/P DD can almost 100 to 0 zerker DH instantly.

 

Stealth your team before team fights it really helps get the drop on unsuspecting players. Pistol 5 + Blinding Powder + SB2.

 

Share basilisk venom and be sure to wait until your team uses it before you do as typically they won't notice that you have given it to them mid fight. It can really swing kills very quickly by locking down a target.

 

Shortbow wrecks in teamfights and don't feel like spamming SB1 isn't a good idea. Use SB 4 on downs when people try and res.

 

Sometimes it's your job to headhunt the other thief if there is one. Especially if it's a DE. It relieves pressure from your team fighters and supports. This is also applicable to other glass cannons like Pew Pew, GS Mes and so on.

 

Just because Heartseeker is easy doesn't mean it's always the best option. If they're not less than 50%  you're probably better off with Dag autos or Dag 3.

 

Don't be predictable with your steal it's your most important tool and you want it to be meaningful. Keep in mind swipe is unblockable. Hunt for heal skills, defensives, or stability stacks.

 

And most important GET THE SWORD BUFF on coliseum. That thing is op and your ganks will be exceptional.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Tycura.1982

[Locuz.2651]

13 hours ago, ACGOG.9572 said:

Am I doing something wrong?

 

Its really hard to say what youre doing wrong when we look at your post.  Your post can be summerized in one sentence: "i prepared well and seem to be doing everything fine, teammates still blame me tho". Youre basicly asking us to scrutinize the teammates while we cant see how you played. 

 

First things first: ditch the victim mentality.  Look at the things you can improve; your own gameplay. 

 

The hardest thing to master as thief is properly balancing decaps, +1's and helping out in the teamfight. Doing too much or too little of any of those can and will lose you games.

 

If i look at my own gameplay as thief. When i dont play well its most often due to not playing aggresive enough.  Settling for decaps instead of snowballing fights with my kills. I see a lot of newer thieves making the same mistake. They barely fight and juyst try to decap which leads to their team losing all fights. Its basicly 4v5. Especially on smaller maps its quite easy to recover decapped points for opposing teams if they win all fights. 

 

So my advice is; only decap when the situation allows it.

 

- After your team won or lost fights.

- If your team has enough sustain to stay alive for short bits.

- If there are no fights to +1 / snowball.  

 

 

[Firebeard.1746]

My suggestion is to get on Metabattle and use any of the meta builds there after reading how to play them. This game is really old. The people who are good at it have years of skill and combat knowledge on you. Just copy them and tweak if you think it will benefit you if necessary. When i came back a couple years ago I thought I was being smart running my own build but starting from metabattle gave me a leg up. Also, it will be your job to carry matches given how bad the matchmaker can be + all the toxicity that can happen in any given match, so being your strongest can't hurt.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Crozame.4098]

16 hours ago, ACGOG.9572 said:

Howdy,

So I'm relatively new to GW2. I rolled a Revenant because they looked fun but they're not quite the class I thought they were, which is fine. I then decided to roll a Thief and boy-oh-boy are the mechanics fun, challenging, and over time seem to be very rewarding - when played right. I want to get better at it as it's listed as a meta-spec due to the fact that it can help swing games.

I went with the DD D/P spec because of the mobility and have been practicing in order to get better for when I can do ranked. I've watched a bunch of streamers (I've been trying to play like a gentleman by the name of Sindrener), how-to guides, etc., and in Conquest Practice focus on ninjaing points and killing stragglers in between. I also jump into team fights where I can, but if it's 1v3 or 2v4, while I do my best to help out, if it looks like it's a losing battle I'll skip out and head to the objective instead of dying.

However, I get blamed for the team losing - a lot. Like, a lot a lot. That I'm not doing my job right, or I have a PvE spec (I don't), or I'm bad at what I'm doing, that I should be helping more somehow. This never happens on my Rev, or my Ranger, or my Necro - only on my DD.

Am I doing something wrong? Is there something that I missed? Should I be team fighting more? I thought I was doing a good job as I almost always get the Offense icon (for whatever it's worth) but if I need to change something up I'm glad to.

Appreciate it, and any advice would be great.

Getting kills is more important than decap, in most of the cases. And the issue is, a lot of players do not understand how thief works.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Crozame.4098

[Seb De Tyra.3421]

In low rating people don't have a clue, they will spam decap far when they don't even have the map awareness to see they have something camping it. This game is like any other PvP game, people just blame the jungler 😜

 

Try maybe playing power soulbeast or mirage for a bit to get a feel for roaming and focusing on killing then go back to the thief and add that to decapping etc. 

[ACGOG.9572]

This is all really great advice, thank you!

I'm glad that this class is a lot more difficult than A+1-Reaper-kill-things and there's a lot that I still have to learn.

 

Decapping nodes after a team fight seems like a no-brainer but it sounds like I need to try and jump in a little more than I probably am to make that happen.

 

When I see a Thief on the other team I do try and go after them, mainly because I want to see if I'm better than them (it's about 50/50 at this point but still fun nonetheless).

 

Soulbeast build right now just seems... cheesy. I did make a Mesmer and might give Mirage a go but the whole 2her spin-to-win seems like cheese too. It'd be a good idea to make them just so I know how they work to avoid them in fights. Again, excuse the newness but for example, I noticed that after I made a Rev and a Necro I know how to play against them far better than I did before. It seems people don't pop in and out of Reaper like they should and waste all their Life Force looking for me, and with Rev if I can avoid the Mace E I fare a lot better. I do generally avoid SB and 2H Mesmers though 😋.

 

I'll see if I can record my gameplay to try and get help. I think that's a great idea if someone has the time to take a gander at it. I'm sure there are things that I'm missing or could do better - which is great. I'm always up for learning and I want to get better at the game as I love PvP and always have.

 

I also definitely flex all my builds off of Metabattle. I don't have the skills or the knowledge to make my own build lol.

Edited June 24, 2021 by ACGOG.9572

[frareanselm.1925]

Thief should be able to win every 1v1 except overpowered builds that anet never fix like trap drgonhunter or kancer-scourge...

If you win most of the 1v1 and cap/decap near and far you're playing beatifully, dont listen what others say, and if the team is still losing is because they're just bad.

Edited June 24, 2021 by frareanselm.1925

[Locuz.2651]

1 hour ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

Thief should be able to win every 1v1

 

As thief you shouldnt focus on 1v1s unless you can kill really fast. (within 20ish seconds). 

 

This is a common mistake i see a lot of newer thieves make. They push far and face a common sidernoder like a valk ranger or prot holo. The next two minutes i see them duel the sidenoder. They dont have the node and dont have the abbiltie to kill fast enough.  Even if they win after 2 minutes, its still a waste of their time. 

 

As thief you need to +1 and hunt ppl who are at low HP from teamfights. Thats how you snowball and win games.  

Edited June 24, 2021 by Locuz.2651

[frareanselm.1925]

1 hour ago, Locuz.2651 said:

 

As thief you shouldnt focus on 1v1s unless you can kill really fast. (within 20ish seconds). 

 

This is a common mistake i see a lot of newer thieves make. They push far and face a common sidernoder like a valk ranger or prot holo. The next two minutes i see them duel the sidenoder. They dont have the node and dont have the abbiltie to kill fast enough.  Even if they win after 2 minutes, its still a waste of their time. 

 

As thief you need to +1 and hunt ppl who are at low HP from teamfights. Thats how you snowball and win games.  

What I enjoy doing is capturing far, killing one enemy, and killing him again after he respawns. At the 2nd time they usually dont dare to go near again, and it's fun.

[saerni.2584]

I won't comment on the quality of your team, except to say the people blaming someone else generally aren't playing their best either. Thief gets a lot of misdirected frustration by players who don't want to admit their own role in making the team unsuccessful. Often, the thief gets the hate when the thief is unable to do their job because the other team can afford to fight 3v4 at mid and send a second player to chase the thief around constantly. That isn't really the thief's fault but a player who isn't watching the map carefully only sees the thief not decap'ing and not in any fights. 

I will comment on a general philosophy that may help you:

 

Thief is a roamer so you need to look at what kind of actions you specifically can take in any given moment to maximize your team's win potential. That may be something unconventional to turn around a game and not just running around like a "normal" thief.
 

As an example, I watched a game on Twitch that exemplified this point. The enemy team was down around 100 points for most of the match on Temple. Now, this is a map where awareness is key because Stillness and Tranquility can get a lot of points in a very short time if you aren't paying attention. Towards the late game, the enemy thief managed to draw two players on the team I was watching into an endless fight on Tranquility. Now, the smart play would have been to let him take Tranquility because their team was losing team fights and would have been decapped anyway. Instead, the enemy thief was distracting 2 key players and stopping them from getting Tranquility at the same time. The result was that the enemy team won their 4v3, took Stillness and two nodes and ran away with the win 500-380. 
 

So don't just define your ability as a thief by plus 1 and decap. You can be where your team needs to be faster than anyone in part because of mobility but also because you are the one who is meant to rotate most freely in your team composition. Assess the state of the map, where your team needs you, and then move accordingly. Also, if your team is losing badly, change the dynamic. Most players will just keep doing the same thing (run mid and die) rather than try to change the status quo (targeting a different player, changing the rotation, aiming to capture the important map objective without it costing your team much time/effort).

 

If you are looking to get better that's something you can start with. A lot of it is learning the right judgment calls so you can move quickly and react correctly.

[Luto.1938]

4 minutes ago, saerni.2584 said:

I won't comment on the quality of your team, except to say the people blaming someone else generally aren't playing their best either. Thief gets a lot of misdirected frustration by players who don't want to admit their own role in making the team unsuccessful. Often, the thief gets the hate when the thief is unable to do their job because the other team can afford to fight 3v4 at mid and send a second player to chase the thief around constantly. That isn't really the thief's fault but a player who isn't watching the map carefully only sees the thief not decap'ing and not in any fights. 

I will comment on a general philosophy that may help you:

 

Thief is a roamer so you need to look at what kind of actions you specifically can take in any given moment to maximize your team's win potential. That may be something unconventional to turn around a game and not just running around like a "normal" thief.
 

As an example, I watched a game on Twitch that exemplified this point. The enemy team was down around 100 points for most of the match on Temple. Now, this is a map where awareness is key because Stillness and Tranquility can get a lot of points in a very short time if you aren't paying attention. Towards the late game, the enemy thief managed to draw two players on the team I was watching into an endless fight on Tranquility. Now, the smart play would have been to let him take Tranquility because their team was losing team fights and would have been decapped anyway. Instead, the enemy thief was distracting 2 key players and stopping them from getting Tranquility at the same time. The result was that the enemy team won their 4v3, took Stillness and two nodes and ran away with the win 500-380. 
 

So don't just define your ability as a thief by plus 1 and decap. You can be where your team needs to be faster than anyone in part because of mobility but also because you are the one who is meant to rotate most freely in your team composition. Assess the state of the map, where your team needs you, and then move accordingly. Also, if your team is losing badly, change the dynamic. Most players will just keep doing the same thing (run mid and die) rather than try to change the status quo (targeting a different player, changing the rotation, aiming to capture the important map objective without it costing your team much time/effort).

 

If you are looking to get better that's something you can start with. A lot of it is learning the right judgment calls so you can move quickly and react correctly.

Hmmm... I think I might know the match you're referring to. You're spot on too. Sometimes the thief only needs to create a distraction or diversion to help win the match. You won't get any badges for doing that but it might just be the thing that turns the tide.

 

To the point of the original post... It sounds to me like you're doing everything in your power to do what needs to be done within your role as a thief, and you're trying to get better at it. Keep your head up, ignore the hate (you'll continue to see a lot of it) and keep on doin what your doin. Thief is the scapegoat of all lost matches. It's nothing new, and it's not going to change. The only thing we can do as thieves is try to fill the job as a roamer as best we can, increase our map awareness, and try not to die. Good luck out there!

[Zeesh.7286]

Great thief players carry matches harder than any other class so the expectations are higher for theif players generally. Unfortunately, too many absolutely crappy decap bots have generally soured the community 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

15 hours ago, Zeesh.7286 said:

Great thief players carry matches harder than any other class so the expectations are higher for theif players generally. Unfortunately, too many absolutely crappy decap bots have generally soured the community 

This guy^ definitely is one of the players who blame thief for their own shortcomings lol.

[Zeesh.7286]

4 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

This guy^ definitely is one of the players who blame thief for their own shortcomings lol.

And this guy plays a decap bot 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

33 minutes ago, Zeesh.7286 said:

And this guy plays a decap bot 

Oh burn lol.

A thief decapping is adding value to the match atleast, what do u add?

Death's to the other team I bet :).

Edited June 25, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Zeesh.7286 said:

And this guy plays a decap bot 

 

Playing a bot? 🤔

[Zeesh.7286]

1 hour ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Oh burn lol.

A thief decapping is adding value to the match atleast, what do u add?

Death's to the other team I bet :).

I add feet pics and misery to the match. 

 

and a thief decapping is adding value. A thief ONLY decapping..... pm me for feet pics

[Zeesh.7286]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Playing a bot? 🤔

If he can insinuate I blame thiefs, why can't I call him a bot :< 

 

and FYI I blame scourge/guard duos and BM the warriors for not playing protection holos hmph smh

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, Zeesh.7286 said:

If he can insinuate I blame thiefs, why can't I call him a bot :< 

 

and FYI I blame scourge/guard duos and BM the warriors for not playing protection holos hmph smh

Lol my comments were all in good fun and to take personally, same as the others bot comment as u can't literally play a bot, it plays itself  :).

Also if used at the most overtuned times a foot pic can indeed turn the tides of battle.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

Turn off team and map chat and focus on your actual performance. Your team will rarely have something worthwhile to say.