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Longbow could use an update/revision.


Panncakez.1290

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This might be a hot take, but feel free to disagree.

 

Longbow, a damage weapon that has one proper damaging skill - "Rapid Fire." Two, if you're facing an stacked/immobile pve targets - "Barrage."

"Hunter's Shot" is pure utility with ticklish damage.

"Point-Blank Shot" is a cc that deals a damage of a "Long Range Shot" and has no damage in pvp/wvw.

"Barrage" deals strong damage in pve situations. In both pvp/wvw it has it's uses for zoning and covering chokepoints, but the issue is that a full cast takes a while and leaves you open and stationary, plus the gap between animation start and first damage tick is annoying as heck. 

 

My ideas were:

"Hunter's Shot" - replace it with a flip-ability like that of a Mordrem Guard Sniper: first use puts you in stealth, while in stealth the ability becomes a "Charged Shot" - 1s cast that fires a projectile at the enemy and leaves a ticking linear aoe for a couple of seconds. Ofcourse, unlike the pve monster's skill, it shouldn't down players in 2 hits, but still has to deal proper damage.

"Barrage" - just tweak it, really, shorten the cast time drastically, reduce the recharge timer and amount of hits (damage)/duration. Premise being a safer and more frequent usage, with less damage wasted from "Barrage" lingering over empty spaces.

Edited by Panncakez.1290
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19 minutes ago, Panncakez.1290 said:

This might be a hot take, but feel free to disagree.

 

Longbow, a damage weapon that has one proper damaging skill - "Rapid Fire." Two, if you're facing an stacked/immobile pve targets - "Barrage."

"Hunter's Shot" is pure utility with ticklish damage.

"Point-Blank Shot" is a cc that deals a damage of a "Long Range Shot" and has no damage in pvp/wvw.

"Barrage" deals strong damage in pve situations. In both pvp/wvw it has it's uses for zoning and covering chokepoints, but the issue is that a full cast takes a while and leaves you open and stationary, plus the gap between animation start and first damage tick is annoying as heck. 

 

My ideas were:

"Hunter's Shot" - replace it with a flip-ability like that of a Mordrem Guard Sniper: first use puts you in stealth, while in stealth the ability becomes a "Charged Shot" - 1s cast that fires a projectile at the enemy and leaves a ticking linear aoe for a couple of seconds. Ofcourse, unlike the pve monster's skill, it shouldn't down players in 2 hits, but still has to deal proper damage.

"Barrage" - just tweak it, really, shorten the cast time drastically, reduce the recharge timer and amount of hits (damage)/duration. Premise being a safer and more frequent usage, with less damage wasted from "Barrage" lingering over empty spaces.

Infusion.7149

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  6 hours ago, xDuckYx.4920 said:

 

Wtf? Maybe the "Ranger" would be ok if they would reduce the cd of the awesome 2 attack skills the ranger has with longbow by half because the 2 other skills do no dmg at all

Point-blank shot actually does more damage than Rapid Fire per second, see iDPS chart at

https://discretize.eu/builds/ranger/power-soulbeast

  • Frost Trap    7001
  • Hunter's Call    5282
  • Barrage    3785
  • Worldly Impact    3373
  • Path of Scars    3201
  • Whirling Defense    3176
  • Frenzied Attack    3134
  • Maul    2828
  • Winter's Bite    2679
  • Point-Blank Shot    2497
  • Kick    2348
  • Rapid Fire    2220
  • Charge    2050
  • Hilt Bash + Maul    2029


Rapid Fire does not need a cooldown reduction because the cast time would be half your rotation if it were spammable. Barrage has a high coefficient so if it received a cooldown reduction the damage would be lowered by a similar amount , which reduces burst making it not attractive over Greatsword.

Edited 6 hours ago by Infusion.7149

 

So Point blank shot is better dps skill than rapid fire look at the charts that an über pro made

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6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see the reason for these changes. Just because or ... ?

 

tbh.. Ranger longbow is pretty bland... i wouldnt call it bad, its among rangers strongest weapons in both PvP and PvE.. but its boring as hell.

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3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

tbh.. Ranger longbow is pretty bland... i wouldnt call it bad, its among rangers strongest weapons in both PvP and PvE.. but its boring as hell.

Sure ... but the OP's suggestions seem to target DPS so ... maybe he can provide more insight to why he is making these suggestions to they can be discussed in that context. 

 

I mean, if the objective here is just to DPS creep Lbow, that's a hard sell there. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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Longbow is extremely one dimensional, but I don't think it needs a damage increase.  If barrage is troubling you, equip something that gives you quickness.

 

The only thing I'd like to see is hunter's shot give stealth regardless of if the arrow actually hits.  There's too many defenses in the game now to render it useless in most situations (and I don't call hitting ambient creatures nearby a 'fix') . 

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7 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't see the reason for these changes. Just because or ... ?

WvW is my main pov, I thought it was pretty obvious that my gripes come from non-pve encounters. LB is extremely dull, you run at max distance, unload the Rapid Fire and then just autoattack in hopes for crits. Barrage is only useful in zergs and capping camps, nobody stays in it during small-scale/1v1 encounters due to issues described above.

 

It's only reliable damaging ability - Rapid Fire, is frowned upon by community and was constantly getting nerfed (in wvw/pvp), instead of adressing what actually lead to ridiculous damage numbers. 

 

A weapon isn't in a good state when it's a one trick pony for almost 9 years.

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Like i said in other topic every other class that can use a bow specialy longbow is better than the ranger itself because they have more and better skills to use....it would be the same if they give all classes more and better stealth than a thief has

Edited by xDuckYx.4920
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1 hour ago, xDuckYx.4920 said:

Like i said in other topic every other class that can use a bow specialy longbow is better than the ranger itself because they have more and better skills to use....it would be the same if they give all classes more and better stealth than a thief has

Dude, what?

 

Even if I would agree that the other longbow users are using the weapon better than ranger (I don't agree with this, longbow on ranger for a ranged weapon is pretty good), what kind of argument is "rangers are supposed to be the best longbow users"?

 

It's a weapon, no class has a "right" to be the best user of this weapon.

If that would be the case then, oh boy, would we have to rework alot of weapons.

 

  • Rework thief's daggers, since they are supposed to be the best dagger users 
  • Rework rifle and pistol on engineer, since engi should be the best user of these weapons
  • Rework shield on guardian, they should be the best user of it

 

And the list would go on and on.

This is absolute nonsense.

Edited by Kodama.6453
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7 hours ago, Panncakez.1290 said:

WvW is my main pov, I thought it was pretty obvious that my gripes come from non-pve encounters. LB is extremely dull, you run at max distance, unload the Rapid Fire and then just autoattack in hopes for crits. Barrage is only useful in zergs and capping camps, nobody stays in it during small-scale/1v1 encounters due to issues described above.

 

It's only reliable damaging ability - Rapid Fire, is frowned upon by community and was constantly getting nerfed (in wvw/pvp), instead of adressing what actually lead to ridiculous damage numbers. 

 

A weapon isn't in a good state when it's a one trick pony for almost 9 years.

Lbow is obviously intended to be a long range weapon and the hints of it's design (for example, cripple application and knockback) reveal its strength and intent as well. If those things aren't strong for non-PVE encounter weapon, then it's not an indication the weapon should be changed, it's an indication to make a different choice. 

 

I mean, you are complaining that LB is dull because you run max distance with it and it has the tools on it to do what it was intended to do. Think about that for a second. Sure, that's not the exciting way to play ... so why did you make that choice of weapon to begin with? Why aren't you changing to something MORE interesting to you or more effective for non-PVE encounters?

 

To be fair, LBow is one of the best weapon designs out there, like in the whole game, because you know what it is intended for is and everything on it is aimed to that intent. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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Wha

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Lbow is obviously intended to be a long range weapon and the hints of it's design (for example, cripple application and knockback) reveal its strength and intent as well. If those things aren't strong for non-PVE encounter weapon, then it's not an indication the weapon should be changed, it's an indication to make a different choice. 

 

 

What you said has nothing to do what my premise is. You ignored every weakness I named and called it a strenght, I'm having a slight feeling that you don't even read before replying. 

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1 minute ago, Panncakez.1290 said:

Wha

What you said has nothing to do what my premise is. You ignored every weakness I named and called it a strenght, I'm having a slight feeling that you don't even read before replying. 

Nope, that's not true. I didn't ignore anything ... Lbow has an obvious intent and purpose and it fulfills it very well. You're premise is that the LBow is dull and has weakness in the game mode you want to use it. That's not really relevant. What is relevant here is what it's designed to do ... and it does that very well. If it's not good for the purpose you want to use it, then don't use it, or change how you play. 

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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Nope, that's not true. I didn't ignore anything ... Lbow has an obvious intent and purpose and it fulfills it very well. You're premise is that the LBow is dull and has weakness in the game mode you want to use it. That's not really relevant. What is relevant here is what it's designed to do ... and it does that very well. If it's not good for the purpose you want to use it, then don't use it, or change how you play. 

Pretty much talking to wall, aren't I? What bloody purpuse does it have? What does it "do very well"? Allows brain-dead gameplay of  "11111" spam from 1,500 range?

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11 minutes ago, Panncakez.1290 said:

 What bloody purpuse does it have? 

You don't see the intended purpose of the Lbow? ... but you think you are qualified to suggest how it should change? Sounds like you should play a little more. 

 

I mean, I don't think you are being honest here. You're telling me you aren't able to look at LBow and it's skills and understand how it's intended to be used? It's one of the most singularly focused weapons in this game ... it's purpose couldn't be more clear. If you aren't able to look at that weapon and see how it should be used, then you are the last person anyone should listen to on how it should be changed. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Dude, what?

 

Even if I would agree that the other longbow users are using the weapon better than ranger (I don't agree with this, longbow on ranger for a ranged weapon is pretty good), what kind of argument is "rangers are supposed to be the best longbow users"?

 

It's a weapon, no class has a "right" to be the best user of this weapon.

If that would be the case then, oh boy, would we have to rework alot of weapons.

 

  • Rework thief's daggers, since they are supposed to be the best dagger users 
  • Rework rifle and pistol on engineer, since engi should be the best user of these weapons
  • Rework shield on guardian, they should be the best user of it

 

And the list would go on and on.

This is absolute nonsense.

I did not say ranger need to be the best with longbow but in pvp/wvw ranger has only TWO dmg skills with longbow oh well 3 if you count standart shot as a skill while other classes have more and even better skills to use

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Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's what I was thinking.

 

You don't see the intended purpose of the Lbow? ... but you think you are qualified to suggest how it should change? Sounds like you should play a little more. 

I take my words back, talking to a wall is far more fruitful than trying to make you understand the issues I'm describing. In your mind a brain-dead, one-trick weapon - is a good design. Neither of us is going to gain anything from this discussion, have fun.

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5 minutes ago, Panncakez.1290 said:

In your mind a brain-dead, one-trick weapon - is a good design. 

No, in my brain, the LBow has a well-defined purpose intended by it's design. That's not an issue, it's how the weapon works. If that's not a good choice in WvW for you because of how it works, don't use it. It's not a reason to change the weapon. 

 

FYI, I'm also saving up my "Hey, have you noticed the game revolves around PVE?" card as well. You think Anet is going to change the iconic weapon for a ranger because you don't like how it works in WvW? 🤣

Edited by Obtena.7952
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4 minutes ago, xDuckYx.4920 said:

I did not say ranger need to be the best with longbow but in pvp/wvw ranger has only TWO dmg skills with longbow oh well 3 if you count standart shot as a skill while other classes have more and even better skills to use

Great ... so if two damage skills on it aren't enough to make it good in WvW for you, don't use it. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Great ... so if two damage skills on it aren't enough to make it good in WvW for you, don't use it. 

Sure you give me my money back i spend to increase all my inventory on my "archer" class which totaly suck in pvp/wvw because it has only 2 skills and non "archer" class get tons of skills with longbow i change my class and use something else

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4 minutes ago, xDuckYx.4920 said:

Sure you give me my money back i spend to increase all my inventory on my "archer" class which totaly suck in pvp/wvw because it has only 2 skills and non "archer" class get tons of skills with longbow i change my class and use something else

That doesn't make sense. I'm not giving you jack kitten just because you suck at playing Ranger by camping longbow in pvp/WvW. You don't get paid for that. But yeah, you got one part right ... if you are so bad at ranger, you should change class and use something else. That's the point of all the choice we have. 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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4 minutes ago, xDuckYx.4920 said:

its not our fault when YOU dont even know what a "ranger" is and what he is supposed to use and do.

I don't need to know ... That's for Anet to decide what a ranger is and what he is supposed to do ... and obviously they made ranger to work how they see fit, including the LBow.

 

 

Edited by Obtena.7952
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3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I don't need to know ... That's for Anet to decide what a ranger is and what he is supposed to do ... and obviously they made ranger to work how they see fit, including the LBow

As you can see they dont know either.....giving the "archer" class 2 skills to use and non archer classes tons of skills to use with same weapon verry high iq 

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3 minutes ago, xDuckYx.4920 said:

i bet you wouldnt say the same if they would make it with the class you play

OH yeah? and what class(es) do you think I play if that's what you think? Pretty sure you would lose that bet. I mean, you don't think I play Ranger or use LBow on it?

Edited by Obtena.7952
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