We NEED race change! [Merged]

[Jilora.9524]

On 6/28/2021 at 8:44 PM, Mortifera.6138 said:

You fail to comprehend basic things.

 

The only person who can say what he meant by "need" is OP.

 

Secondly, you used "we" as well, so if the OP is wrong in speaking for everyone, you are too.

 

Goodbye.

Just want to say ty for putting the people that take "need" or "we" so literally in their place. I knew once I saw need in the title prior to reading the thread these certain people would solely focus on that and ruin the thread or try to. In fact I had blocked one but the replys don't go away but I especially enjoyed you owning that dude with that back and forth.

[Balsa.3951]

34 minutes ago, Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

ANet saying that something is difficult and taking years to do it in spite of saying they would like to add it is most definitely an indication that it is hard to do.

the difference between race change and sex change? One involves a change to the personal story, your home instance and what racial armor you can wear and the other does not.

 

Nobody asks for ps change ppl ask cosmetic race change.... which i proofed u on examples anet is capable off 

 

again, ur argument stays must be true bcs anet says so. 

u will not believe it but anets only reason for no race change is there is no money in it to make 

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

34 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Nobody asks for ps change ppl ask cosmetic race change.... which i proofed u on examples anet is capable off 

 

again, ur argument stays must be true bcs anet says so. 
u will not believe it but anets only reason for no race change is there is no money in it to make 

 

Basically what you have seen as a race change in fractals etc and are asking for as the same thing as the change in fractals is on the level of Combat Tonics and yes, that can be done. We do already have Combat Tonics and they could add more. 
_____

“u will not believe it but anets only reason for no race change is there is no money in it to make”

actually I believe there won’t be race changes because of the racial tie to the personal story and the many times they’ve told us that the personal story from level 1 to level 80 can’t be easily changed without breaking it (it’s why the personal story from level 1 to 80 isn’t replayable. They tried to make it replayable and were unable). 

 

as a thing to think about, you keep saying it’s easy in spite of others pointing out why it’s not. There’s a saying that goes “the job is always easy for the person who doesn’t have to do it”.  ANet has repeatedly said race changes won’t be available and said the personal story is a problem. You dismissing what ANet says and saying it’s easy doesn’t make it so. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Just a flesh wound.3589

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

6 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Nobody asks for ps change ppl ask cosmetic race change.... which i proofed u on examples anet is capable off 

 

again, ur argument stays must be true bcs anet says so. 

u will not believe it but anets only reason for no race change is there is no money in it to make 

As long as you are willing to give up the ability to use Mounts, I'm sure that ArenaNet could easily give you a 'Race Change' tonic-type feature. 

(Remember, you can't use Mounts when transformed, as using a Mount is a transformation in itself.)

[Caeledh.5437]

On 6/28/2021 at 5:54 PM, phreeak.1023 said:

Changing your gender, looks or your name is different than changing a race. It's all about personal quests which is different from race to race with 3 different routes and some other details. 

 

An items cant just can't alter the database in this way in GW2. Other mmo maybe offer it but they dont have personal quests and other things you chose in the character creation. 

 

It doesn't make sense to you because obviously u dont know kitten how games are working and u think its just one button clicking. 

 

All false.

 

You obviously don't understand at all how databases work.

 

They're essentially not very different from big excel spreadsheets. All character info - race, question completion etc. - is just data (usually numeric) and can be changed very easily.

 

Changing from asura to charr might be changing from 1 to 2.

 

Personal story would be no problem at all. None.

 

The "difficulty" lies only in business model. For a whole range of reasons ANet would prefer players to just create a new character. Replay everything. And ideally rebuy all of those character bound gem store unlocks.

[Tiilimon.6094]

1 hour ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

All false.

 

You obviously don't understand at all how databases work.

 

They're essentially not very different from big excel spreadsheets. All character info - race, question completion etc. - is just data (usually numeric) and can be changed very easily.

 

Changing from asura to charr might be changing from 1 to 2.

 

Personal story would be no problem at all. None.

 

The "difficulty" lies only in business model. For a whole range of reasons ANet would prefer players to just create a new character. Replay everything. And ideally rebuy all of those character bound gem store unlocks.

 

Changing just the one value for the actual race might be very easy for sure, but changing all the other values might just glitch the character so badly that it leads to all sorts of problems that we have no idea about :)

 

Keep in mind that every time you make a decision during the story line, some values in the database change as well.

 

How these relate to each other and what messing up with them might cause can only be speculated, as we don't have the slightest idea how this game is actually programmed.

 

I know for certain tho, that messing with character database values while running a wow private server breaks em, the whole client just freezes completely.

[Caeledh.5437]

8 minutes ago, Tiilimon.6094 said:

 

Changing just the one value for the actual race might be very easy for sure, but changing all the other values might just glitch the character so badly that it leads to all sorts of problems that we have no idea about 🙂

 

Hahaha. No.

 

You might not have any idea but I've worked in database development. Your claim is silly.

 

As I said, databases are essentially just big excel spreadsheets and with scripts it's literally effortless to change values like this, without risk of "glitches".

 

This isn't chaos magic.

 

It's technology. Very old and basic technology.

 

ANet's motivation is similarly old and basic. Profit.

 

Personally I wouldn't change any of my character's races. So I have no desire for race change. But I know for a fact that "technology" is not a valid reason for the lack of this feature. If that's what they've claimed then it's a brazen lie.

[Tiilimon.6094]

Experience working with databases doesn't mean that you know at all how the program using that data functions, as that's usually where this so called "chaos magic" happens.

 

For example, what would be the result when a character is wearing cultural armor and is changed to another race in the database?

I'd guess a conflict like that would most likely cause a client crash when trying to log into the game.

 

There's plenty more conflicts such as this one for sure, and most likely those are the reason why the developers don't bother working on it.

 

Keep in mind that this game is coded in such a way, that it was possible to teleport before POF came out just by logging to character screen and back if your character stood near enough to a structure... so saying that changing things in the database doesn't cause glitches at least makes you seem amazingly confident in your claims.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

I feel like they could do a race change but if you changed to a new race they would need to make 1 story line for everyone who chooses to change to that race. Maybe make a 1 or 2 minute animation explaining a brief overview of their "new" character story. Could work

[Ratnoon.4251]

On 6/29/2021 at 2:03 PM, Dark Red Killian.3946 said:

They could more easily tie race change to end of dragons and make it tied to story from there on out. It would be just like mounts or gliding, you can’t take it in previous stories, etc. Details on how this would happen, that would be up to Anet. Just throwing that out there that it’s not entitely impossible.

Yeah, my point exactly. To say that it is entirely impossible is just not true. Anything is possible, does it sometimes require unrealistic amounts of work to make a tiny feature possible? Sure, but not impossible. 

[Touchme.1097]

It's so easy to take a character to level 80 nowadays, race change is not possible because of the background story.

The only alternative is to start a new character with the chosen race, choose wisely.

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

All false.

 

You obviously don't understand at all how databases work.

 

They're essentially not very different from big excel spreadsheets. All character info - race, question completion etc. - is just data (usually numeric) and can be changed very easily.

 

Changing from asura to charr might be changing from 1 to 2.

And then something breaks, because you were wearing asura cultural armor. Or had an asura racial skill equipped.

 

7 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

Personal story would be no problem at all. None.

And then something breaks because you were in-between racial story steps. Or because a game remembers somewhere, that Zojja is your Destiny's Edge mentor, and you are in college of Dynamics, even though you are now a Charr. And that's even before a game crashes, because the game just got to some charr-specific dialogs in IBS, and then realized you had no legion selected.

 

All that because you changed a single value without thinking of consequences.

 

And as for excel spreadsheet example...

Simple example:

you have five cells. 1, +, 1, =, 2.

Please, do change one of the 1's to 2. Then wonder why the equation no longer is true.

 

A more complex example:

Imagine that it is a number of cells with a sum in the bottom one. Imagine, that this sum is not automatically generated - rather, it was generated at some point, but now exists as unconnected data. Now, imagine that you just changed one of the cells in the column above it. The sum is suddenly wrong.

In this case there's one sum, and you can just re-generate it after a change.

Now, imagine that this cell is part of a many such formulas, and you'd have to re-generate them all. Except that the results themselves are parts of even more formulas, which would also need to be re-generated. And the datasheet was created by hundreds of users, each adding to it, and now noone really remembers all the interconnections anymore.

 

So, sure, it is easy to change that cell. Except after you do, some parts of that spreadsheet won't make any sense anymore.

 

To sum it up: The one that obviously does not understand at all how databases work is you.

[phreeak.1023]

13 hours ago, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

All false.

 

You obviously don't understand at all how databases work.

 

They're essentially not very different from big excel spreadsheets. All character info - race, question completion etc. - is just data (usually numeric) and can be changed very easily.

 

Changing from asura to charr might be changing from 1 to 2.

 

Personal story would be no problem at all. None.

 

The "difficulty" lies only in business model. For a whole range of reasons ANet would prefer players to just create a new character. Replay everything. And ideally rebuy all of those character bound gem store unlocks.

 

Cute but i have a degree in computer science and databases were a huge part of it. I know a bit how databases are working (not fully, because not working with them) 

 

If anet can't change the race without risking bugs, the race is an important value in the database linked to the character itself and several tables (Quests) 

 

U cant just use 

 

"UPDATE table SET race = XY WHERE username = Caeledh.5437 AND charactername = WhatEver" 

 

It takes a lot more and obviously ANETs thinks, it can cause bugs. Especially when the race value is a key value (secondary key f.e for personal race quests)

 

They know how their db is builded better than everyone here.

 

And for this "eXcEl sprEadSheeTs aRe lIkE dAtAbAses"

 

https://zapier.com/blog/database-vs-spreadsheet/

 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by phreeak.1023

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Gunna bet this one gets locked, considering some of the latest responses.

[Blude.6812]

23 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Gunna bet this one gets locked, considering some of the latest responses.

Yep, should have been locked right away with a note saying this has been discussed before and Anet has already responded with a definitive answer.

[costepj.5120]

But think of all the chuckles it has given database designers everywhere.

[Jilora.9524]

Maybe just add race change but if you use it you get a warning "this will reset story progress 1-80 to the beginning and you will not be able to get rewards like BL keys gear or anything from redoing story of the new race you choose" 

That way nothing can break

Maybe you would have to reset more then just 1-80 story but I can't think of race related story differences after.

[kharmin.7683]

3 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

Maybe just add race change but if you use it you get a warning "this will reset story progress 1-80 to the beginning and you will not be able to get rewards like BL keys gear or anything from redoing story of the new race you choose" 

That way nothing can break

Maybe you would have to reset more then just 1-80 story but I can't think of race related story differences after.

Just create a new character, then.  That amounts to the same thing, no?

[Bristingr.5034]

On 6/28/2021 at 4:02 PM, Mortifera.6138 said:

People also said we didn't need mounts, until we got them.

I still don't think we needed mounts.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

A race change would essentially be a "Rebirth" token that resets all story progress since story is tied to race, and it would likely be costly, at least 800 gems like name changes, maybe more.

 

I don't see why not having such a feature if people want to pay for that, but I also don't see any reason to use it. 

Why paying 800 gems for a race change that resets your story when you could instead pay 800 gems for a new character?

[Jilora.9524]

8 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Just create a new character, then.  That amounts to the same thing, no?

Not really. It would just reset story progress not like map complete. I don't need a race change but some seem to want it and all I could think of was reset story would have to be included to not break as others have said would happen

[Ashen.2907]

On 6/28/2021 at 12:44 AM, Tuen.5641 said:

Seriously. We need to get race change as an option in the gem store.

 

I’m constantly creating new alts because I get tired of races looks and animations. So I’ve got multiples of all the classes I play… And I’m not alone. 
 

I know Anet has said it’s “impossible” because of personal story tied to the characters races. But that seems shallow to me. We’ve got the identity repair kit that lets you change a lot about your character, why is not a race change possible? Is it really just laziness and excuses or did I miss something crucial here? 
 

Would think it would be a great way for the company to make some extra money too, or do they simple make more by not offering it - forcing players to keep buying character slots, investing in new characters? I dunno, but every other MMO seems to be able to offer it. 
 

When people start throwing out accusations of, "laziness," it is a solid indication that they don't know what they are talking about. That said, no we do not, "need" race change. You have already demonstrated that an option exists and works by creating multiples of each profession.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if you're truly accepting of all gw2 races then it shouldn't matter

[Caeledh.5437]

18 hours ago, phreeak.1023 said:

Cute but i have a degree in computer science and databases were a huge part of it. I know a bit how databases are working (not fully, because not working with them) 

 

If anet can't change the race without risking bugs, the race is an important value in the database linked to the character itself and several tables (Quests) 

 

U cant just use 

 

"UPDATE table SET race = XY WHERE username = Caeledh.5437 AND charactername = WhatEver" 

 

I haven't just "studied" databases as a "huge" part of a degree.

 

I've built huge, complex ones for use in commercial applications.

 

18 hours ago, phreeak.1023 said:

If anet can't change the race without risking bugs, the race is an important value in the database linked to the character itself and several tables (Quests) 

 

See, there you demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

Completely irrespective of whatever claims ANet makes about whether race change is technically possible, race is a value in the character database.

 

There's no such thing as "important" and "unimportant" values.

 

Absolutely every detail about your character - name, race, appearance, inventory, quest and map completion, wallet etc. is all values in the database.

 

And all of those values can be changed easily and risk free.

 

In fact every time your inventory, quest, map or wallet changes, the database is updated. Automatically and without glitching constantly. Because under the hood, that's what an online game is.

 

 

18 hours ago, phreeak.1023 said:

"UPDATE table SET race = XY WHERE username = Caeledh.5437 AND charactername = WhatEver" 

 

Pretty much this or something like it.

[Carnifex.3275]

I know.. i guess it's really hard to implement such ticket cuz of personal story line. But nothing is impossible, a man can dream. Worst case scenario just erase our story mode "My Story" part (not the LW/Expansion story parts). As i understand only "My Story" part is somewhat dependable on your race/choices.