How to Fix Druid

[The Boz.2038]

Any elite spec that was designed for one and only one role (unless that role is "do damage", lol, cause that's what 80% of the roles in the game need to do, pretty much) was a design misfire. Out of all eighteen elites in the game, only Druid falls into this, as it is only ever advantageous to play as a healer with some boons and CCs. 

[Lazze.9870]

On 7/8/2021 at 3:18 PM, The Boz.2038 said:

Any elite spec that was designed for one and only one role (unless that role is "do damage", lol, cause that's what 80% of the roles in the game need to do, pretty much) was a design misfire. Out of all eighteen elites in the game, only Druid falls into this, as it is only ever advantageous to play as a healer with some boons and CCs. 

 

Allright. You're hopeless. 

 

There are entire builds in wvw that are designed to do nothing else, and you're crying about druid, which belongs to a class that arguably has TOO FEW supportive options as a core class, having an elite spec that is mainly about filling that hole.

 

It's like crying about revenant's Salvation line is all about healing and support. The difference is that revenant get this as a core class spec. Ranger got it with an elite spec. Which is your best bet when the core class can barely do any of it and you want to fill out that niche. That's one of the possible purposes of an elite spec.

 

Regardless, it is one out of 3 traitlines and it doesn't force you to pick "healer stats". Like I said, one of the most engaging and fun way to play ranger in pvp atm is Remorseless GS/Staff, taking advantage of the dazes. Nothing to do with healing, everything to do with the staff and the CCs. That's why you'd play it over a core Remorsless build. And those are aspects that would still remain if they focused on what it does now.

 

1. You clearly not interesting in playing support. Don't play druid.

2. You want it to do everything else. The end result is that it will be good at nothing or nerfed to hell. And you know it. You should know it.

3. Refining what druid does now is more likely than them overhauling it, especially overhauling its theme as well.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Soilder.3607]

Druid doesn't need fixing. From a PvE perspective, it's one of, if not, the best support healers in the game. It's been the staple raid healer ever since raids were released, and even outside of that content it offers strong group support with healing, might stacking, and CC as well as straight buffs to damage for both power and condi users.

 

True, Druid is lacking in sPvP, but it still has uses in WvW from the ever annoying stealth trapper to a an immob oriented healer suited for organized play.

 

That doesn't mean there isn't room for improving the spec. There are indeed changes I would like to see made, but it's far from broken, and further still from being unusable. 

[Arheundel.6451]

9 hours ago, Soilder.3607 said:

Druid doesn't need fixing. From a PvE perspective, it's one of, if not, the best support healers in the game. It's been the staple raid healer ever since raids were released, and even outside of that content it offers strong group support with healing, might stacking, and CC as well as straight buffs to damage for both power and condi users.

 

True, Druid is lacking in sPvP, but it still has uses in WvW from the ever annoying stealth trapper to a an immob oriented healer suited for organized play.

 

That doesn't mean there isn't room for improving the spec. There are indeed changes I would like to see made, but it's far from broken, and further still from being unusable. 

Immob druid is the reason why druid was nerfed in the first place! I have been saying it for years and my original thread where I suggested to remove that kitten trait was met by huge numbers of angry rants, now everybody almost agree that Ancient Seeds must go , that's the first step in saving druid

[Lazze.9870]

18 hours ago, Soilder.3607 said:

Druid doesn't need fixing. From a PvE perspective, it's one of, if not, the best support healers in the game. It's been the staple raid healer ever since raids were released, and even outside of that content it offers strong group support with healing, might stacking, and CC as well as straight buffs to damage for both power and condi users.

 

True, Druid is lacking in sPvP, but it still has uses in WvW from the ever annoying stealth trapper to a an immob oriented healer suited for organized play.

 

That doesn't mean there isn't room for improving the spec. There are indeed changes I would like to see made, but it's far from broken, and further still from being unusable. 

 Except it does. It's been a staple in PvE because of core ranger spirits, not because it is a particularly good healer. It speaks for itself when part of your argument is to link two core spirits that have always been staple ranger spirits for PvE content to argue that druid is good.

 

People seriously need to stop thinking being an efficient spirit slave makes druid a good elite spec. That's setting the bar incredibly low.

 

The immob role it has in wvw doesn't warrant being categorized as an OK elite spec. I made that build a long time ago, the immob spam is ridiculous, but you're fine without it. Stealth trapping is something any ranger spec can do, druid just makes it more annoying.

 

It's not good at what it is supposed to do in 2/3 game modes. Those are the hard facts. And the spec itself is riddled with skills and traits that need either buffs, refines or complete reworks.

 

So yes, it needs fixing. When there are that many flaws, you get to a point where it is fine to call it a fix.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I'm just trying to imagine a mosshart transform in PvP or WvW....

 

These changes seem extremely PvE oriented, and open world PvE oriented at that...as I don't raid, but I'm not sure what raiders would think of a giant mosshart runnin' around when they're sweating over their DPS meters.  

 

If we were to entertain a shapeshifter it'd be more suited for a soulbeast overhaul since you merge with the pet there.  

 

Finally, I know DnD set the rules that druids are tree hugging hippies, but the sun is required to grow said trees, so logic concludes they are also celestial.  

[Caeledh.5437]

On 7/8/2021 at 12:06 PM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I don't care much for any of @Caeledh.5437's suggested gameplay changes

 

The upside of my suggestion is you wouldn't experience any change.

 

The defaults would allow existing druids to just keep playing exactly as is.

 

On 7/8/2021 at 12:06 PM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

but I'm not opposed to the idea of giving druids some mechanism to re-skin celestial avatar.

 

A reskin alone would make a huge difference.

 

I know that not everyone is a Sylvari, but seriously, I feel about 3000% less like a druid every time I transform from a gorgeous plant creature to.... a semi-transparent starry thing.

 

On 7/8/2021 at 12:06 PM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I don't care much for any of @Caeledh.5437's suggested gameplay changes, but I'm not opposed to the idea of giving As nice as it sounds to have CA form be of unlimited duration, I feel it would be highly out if line with transformations like shroud, rampage, and tornado (shroud being the closest kin, as Cael already noted).

 

I know that it would be out of line with those abilities, but from my point of view and I'm not alone, shroud is out of line with ranger. 

 

Shroud belongs to necro. People who play that class can at least tolerate that mechanic. Foisting it on other professions is crazy as.

 

If druid's heal spec had been scourge, but plant themed, I might have been able to enjoy that.

 

My suggestion also balanced customisation options like this accordingly. I would happily suffer a nerf to my heal power, eg. bringing it line with scourge who are perma heal mode.

 

On 7/8/2021 at 12:06 PM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

As much as you find proper themes important, I'd say gameplay mechanics take precedence.

 

Nope.

 

It's not an either or question. It's a both.

 

In class based games with varying class mechanics, a class has to appeal both thematically and mechanically to be worth playing seriously.

 

For my tastes, unfortunately GW2 is a hot mess in this department. This is why I've only kept a toe dipped in all these years.

 

On 7/8/2021 at 12:06 PM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

As much as you find proper themes important, I'd say gameplay mechanics take precedence. As such, I'd simply prefer to see ANet revert several nerfs (give pets their stats back, return the evade on staff 3, restore CA generation) rather than add anything new at this point.

 

I know, not imaginative. It's just that I have little faith that ANet could properly give druid such a fundamental overhaul amid their current priorities.

 

I don't have any serious hope of them fixing druid.

 

But they might be aware that their forcing unwanted mechanics from alternate professions into elite specs is unpopular and hurting the game. Their recent rehiring of that previous senior guy and blogpost saying they were putting the focus back on players might be a good sign. And revisiting existing elites might even be a question they've put on the table, internally. To see if anyone can dream up viable solutions.

 

Hence my posting.

[gelnor.9265]

 As others have said, a thematic rework of druid does not make much sense, it would be too much work for too little. And I actually like the celestial theme. Adding more skill choices to it just so that people could switch the theme would make balancing the game even harder than it is, and we already see it's far from trivial.

 

The OP's problem of not having a clearly nature magic themed elite spec can be fixed in a much more efficient way though: give ranger a new elite spec in EoD that's more plant magic oriented, with scepter as a new weapon and cantrips for example as the new utility skill type. The elite spec profession mechanic could also lean into the nature magic theme. Unlike the staff, scepter would not be support oriented, so it could do real damage. Druid could stay in the support role, it could even get a mechanical rework if really needed (I don't have enough experience to have a relevant opinion about whether it's needed).

Edited July 10, 2021 by gelnor.9265

[Caeledh.5437]

18 minutes ago, gelnor.9265 said:

 As others have said, a thematic rework of druid does not make much sense, it would be too much work for too little.

 

You know this is a business right?

 

They rely on people enjoying their product to generate revenue.

 

18 minutes ago, gelnor.9265 said:

The OP's problem of not having a clearly nature magic themed elite spec

 

No not really.

 

As one of the first responses pointed out and I agreed with, Ventari feels way more nature themed than druid.

 

On 7/5/2021 at 9:17 AM, frareanselm.1925 said:

IMO the legendary centaur stance from Revenant feels 10 times more druid, than the actual ranger druid, this is sad.

 

So there is a nature themed spec. It belongs to another prof.

 

I replied to them that I'd play rev except that like ranger and the other profs I might play, ANet keep sucking all of the fun out with their elite specs.

 

18 minutes ago, gelnor.9265 said:

The OP's problem of not having a clearly nature magic themed elite spec can be fixed in a much more efficient way though: give ranger a new elite spec that's more plant magic oriented, with scepter as a new weapon and cantrips for example as the new utility skill type. The elite spec profession mechanic could also lean into the nature magic theme. Unlike the staff, scepter would not be support oriented, so it could do real damage. Druid could stay in the support role, it could even get a mechanical rework if really needed (I don't have enough experience to have a relevant opinion about whether it's needed).

 

Personally I don't hate the idea of a new plant magic type elite spec, but that doesn't actually solve my problem and it creates another.

 

Healing is a role I'm very into. LOATHING ranger's heal spec is a deal breaker. Also their other elite spec is a dud for me. I do not want to give up my pet.

 

And while I'm into magic and plants, not everyone is into either of those, let alone both. Those people might see this as 3 out 3 elite specs not to their tastes. That's potentially very risky.

 

Meanwhile, other elite specs like Scourge can function both for damage and healing.

 

Regardless of how anyone feels about Druid's theme, I think it's inevitable that eventually they're tweaked for similar functional flexibility.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Caeledh.5437

[Lazze.9870]

On 7/10/2021 at 3:25 PM, Caeledh.5437 said:

 

You know this is a business right?

 

They rely on people enjoying their product to generate revenue.

 

Most people that don't like druid don't like it because it is a healer (which is not what they wanted to play when they picked ranger) or because it is mechanically flawed with too many underperforming or unrefined skills/traits.

 

A thematic change is the least worthwhile thing Anet can do. Because most people aren't gonna be that hung up about GW2's version of druid being different from what you'd expect from a druid as long as it plays well and fits within the lore framework we're working with (the latter of which it does).

 

I personally think the celestial aspect is cool. Pretty much any "plant effect" in this game look tacky.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Infusion.7149]

They're not going to rework theme 6 years later when that isn't a gameplay problem unlike engineer scrapper gyros.

There's minor tweaks that can benefit druids such as rebalancing astral force for competitive modes after damage and healing was cut in Feb 2020 and fixing some traits/skills. For WVW specifically being able to stow pet would be valuable.

For PVE , they balance around instanced content and druid is a staple in almost every raid or strike group. In fractals you could easily run condi firebrand , double condi RR , any DPS, and a druid healer for might/spirits. The overall community has just cut it down to firebrand + renegade because you don't need as many classes and prestacking means might is not nearly as much of an issue ; spotter is less useful in fractals due to potions providing precision.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Lazze.9870]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

druid is a staple in almost every raid or strike group

 

*Spirit slave is a staple.

 

Or to flip it around, you wouldn't run druid if not for spirits.

 

 

[Infusion.7149]

3 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

*Spirit slave is a staple.

 

Or to flip it around, you wouldn't run druid if not for spirits.

 

 

10 man might too (because herald is clunky and so is tempest to an extent ,as mirage is only really used at TL+SH+Matt)? spotter as well for raid/strikes.
Also there's a variety of instances that rangers specifically are usually used for mechanics such as on Samarog (push), Soulless Horror (push) , Vale Guardian (push), Gorseval (entangle) , Keep Construct (push orb), etc.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Number_of_Targets/10
 

[Lazze.9870]

23 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

10 man might too (because herald is clunky and so is tempest to an extent ,as mirage is only really used at TL+SH+Matt)? spotter as well for raid/strikes.
Also there's a variety of instances that rangers specifically are usually used for mechanics such as on Samarog (push), Soulless Horror (push) , Vale Guardian (push), Gorseval (entangle) , Keep Construct (push orb), etc.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Number_of_Targets/10
 

 

There is no "too", because spirits are core ranger abilities. Grace of the Land for might and the fact that it can heal at all are the only thing druid brings to the table, other than various CCs which can be useful or easily slot into a build as simple as a spirit slave build.

 

Anet over the years has been treating spirits as if they were THE druid utilities, and basically balanced druid into the most efficient way you could make a spirit slave. They don't care about the spec outside of PvE (when they removed menders amulet from PvP recently, druid was the only designated healer spec that didn't get a small buff to compensate).

 

This is why I keep saying that druid being a staple for 10 man PvE content says very little about the state of druid in general, except that it can heal anything at all. You'd probably take it without Grace of the Land as well, as long as the spirits are there.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Infusion.7149]

18 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Well, duh.

 

Doesn't change the fact that you wouldn't run it if not for spirits. It boils down to this: druid is a useful spirit slave because it has one trait that grants might and because it heals. That doesn't make it a well designed spec, THAT is the bottom line.

 

Soulbeast can run spotter. Condi rangers can run entangle. Anyone can bring CC for niche rolls or mechanics.

Well despite all that it still has its role in the meta partly because people are used to it (10 man tempest/herald are new additions) but also because it is effective. If you recall , earlier in druid history we had glyph of empowerment which also had a 10% boost to outgoing damage.

If you bring a full condi ranger they do less DPS than scourge right now ; entangle means you can't use OWP. The actual condi fights aren't favorable to condi DPS ranger that much either: SH, Matt, TL.

Push is a very specific CC especially when you account for direction. It is different than just generic CC. I remember one time we had a beginner druid for Samarog and I ended up having to use the knockback on mines as a holo, it was quite clunky so I ended up switching to power soulbeast. For VG for example, you want to push outward so Glyph of Tides (druid only) is more effective unless you run a heal firebrand with a shield.

As for the topic , it's clear that existing balance is being eschewed for "flavor" that may not even be fitting for all players given that it has been in this state for ~6 years.

[Lazze.9870]

24 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Well despite all that it still has its role in the meta partly because people are used to it (10 man tempest/herald are new additions) but also because it is effective. If you recall , earlier in druid history we had glyph of empowerment which also had a 10% boost to outgoing damage.

If you bring a full condi ranger they do less DPS than scourge right now ; entangle means you can't use OWP. The actual condi fights aren't favorable to condi DPS ranger that much either: SH, Matt, TL.

Push is a very specific CC especially when you account for direction. It is different than just generic CC. I remember one time we had a beginner druid for Samarog and I ended up having to use the knockback on mines as a holo, it was quite clunky so I ended up switching to power soulbeast. For VG for example, you want to push outward so Glyph of Tides (druid only) is more effective unless you run a heal firebrand with a shield.

As for the topic , it's clear that existing balance is being eschewed for "flavor" that may not even be fitting for all players given that it has been in this state for ~6 years.

 

I played druid in raids for months after HoT, up to the point where Anet re-balanced it into basically what it is now. You don't have to tell me these things. And none of them matters. Druid having room to bring entangle if needed is not an argument for druid being good. It's an argument for ranger having some handy utitilies for certain raid mechanics, and that the spirit build is flexible enought to bring those because no one cares about the damage it does and the healing comes from CA and regen anyways, so there is room to swap in a weapon for whatever reason (longbow knockback etc).

 

Yes, Glyph of Tides is good when you need to push stuff. The same reason decap druid was a thing. That's the entire point of the skill. Which is why it is awful unless you're specifically want to do that one, niche thing. It'd be better to have a skill that provided some useful support instead. Or anything else. Thinking about it makes me wonder if they keep it as is specifically because of raids.

 

I edited my previous comment to make my point more clear.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Infusion.7149]

Anyone with boon table up will complain if the druid doesn't bring Grace of the Land. I've seen it happen myself when people write "druid are you running Grace of the Land, we have no might" to random PUG druids.

Also, saying spirits are easily maintainable as a non-druid is a bit of a misnomer ever since they added the health degeneration.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Lazze.9870]

8 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Anyone with boon table up will complain if the druid doesn't bring Grace of the Land. I've seen it happen myself when people write "druid are you running Grace of the Land, we have no might" to random PUG druids.

Also, saying spirits are easily maintainable as a non-druid is a bit of a misnomer ever since they added the health degeneration.

 

That's irrelevant. They complain because it exist, I suggested that the spirit slave would probably still be a thing even if it didn't exist. The might would be generated somewhere else.

 

Degeneration on spirits is a result of Anet balancing spirit as if THEY were the druid utilities (like I said). They made them worse for core ranger and better for druid (yet another source of astral force regen).

 

Like, you're not arguing my actual point, you're just talking around it. 

 

The spirit build for 10 man PvE content is NOT a good argument for druid being in a good place, despite that build making them a meta staple.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Konrad Curze.5130]

On 7/8/2021 at 3:23 PM, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Allright. You're hopeless. 

 

There are entire builds in wvw that are designed to do nothing else, and you're crying about druid, which belongs to a class that arguably has TOO FEW supportive options as a core class, having an elite spec that is mainly about filling that hole.

 

It's like crying about revenant's Salvation line is all about healing and support. The difference is that revenant get this is a core class spec. Ranger got it with an elite spec. Which is your best bet when the core class can barely do any of it and you want to fill out that niche. That's one of the possible purposes of an elite spec.

 

Regardless, it is one out of 3 traitlines and it doesn't force you to pick "healer stats". Like I said, one of the most engaging and fun way to play ranger in pvp atm is Remorseless GS/Staff, taking advantage of the dazes. Nothing to do with healing, everything to do with the staff and the CCs. That's why you'd play it over a core Remorsless build. And those are aspects that would still remain if they focused on what it does now.

 

1. You clearly not interesting in playing support. Don't play druid.

2. You want it to do everything else. The end result is that it will be good at nothing or nerfed to hell. And you know it. You should know it.

3. Refining what druid does now is more likely than them overhauling it, especially overhauling its theme as well.

He's talking about spec, your talking about builds

 

Scrapper is a support spec, but it also can do decent damage if built for it, it's trait line/kit design allows for it

 

Scourge is a support spec, but it also can do decent damage if built for it, it's trait line/kit design allows for it

 

Tempest is a support spec, but it also can do decent damage if built for it,  it's trait line/kit design allows for it

 

Firebrand  is a support spec, but it also can do ridiculous damage if built for it, it's trait line/kit design allows for it

 

Druid is a support spec, but... No, it does kitten damage and always will, nothing to build but purely healer forever

 

 

Fix that. 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Konrad Curze.5130

[Lazze.9870]

3 hours ago, Konrad Curze.5130 said:

He's talking about spec, your talking about builds

 

Scrapper is a support spec, but it also can do decent damage if built for it, it's trait line/kit design allows for it

 

Scourge is a support spec, but it also can do decent damage if built for it, it's trait line/kit design allows for it

 

Tempest is a support spec, but it also can do decent damage if built for it,  it's trait line/kit design allows for it

 

Firebrand  is a support spec, but it also can do ridiculous damage if built for it, it's trait line/kit design allows for it

 

Druid is a support spec, but... No, it does kitten damage and always will, nothing to build but purely healer forever

 

 

Fix that. 

 

Scrapper isn't a support spec. Most of its support is enabled by core engineer (med kit, condi to boon conversion etc.). It has a cleanse gyro and the ability to give superspeed and quickness.

 

Scourge supports with barrier, but it's barely a "support" spec. Heavily carried by Blood Magic to have functional support builds.

 

Tempest - heavily carried by water and fire/earth to provide proper support with its auras.

 

Firebrand is busted and core guardian has easy access to support. Any guardian elite spec that isn't straight up damage oriented like DH is gonna lean into being able to support while doing other things.

 

Druid is a support spec for a class with no foundation to play as a proper support build. The more support options you strip away from it, the worse its gonna be as a support. And no, all it does isn't just "heal and heal" forever, it provides some buffs and has great CC access. Anet has to refine these aspects of the class so they all feel better. You can still work those tools into a damage oriented build.

 

If core ranger had better tools to support people without druid, there would have been room to design druid in a similar way to scourge in that it can provide some sort of additional support. But it doesn't. The irony is that even though druid is heavily leaning into being a support, it gets lopsided. You'd like to use several competing traits from druid at once, while core ranger itself doesn't bring all that much to create some synergy.

 

This is why I keep bringing up that Nature Magic needs better tools to provide ranger with some support capabilites. It would help druid in its current state, but it would also allow for Anet to push some more role diversity for druid itself. I personally don't think it needs it, it just needs better scaling for both damage and healing and to refine what it does now and improve and rework the things that never worked.

 

I'm assuming you mainly play PvE. Well, they can rework druid all they want, in PvE you're gonna remain as a spirit slave anyways, so it doesn't make a difference.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Konrad Curze.5130]

4 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Scrapper isn't a support spec. Most of its support is enabled by core engineer (med kit, condi to boon conversion etc.). It has a cleanse gyro and the ability to give superspeed and quickness.

 

Scourge supports with barrier, but it's barely a "support" spec. Heavily carried by Blood Magic to have functional support builds.

 

Tempest - heavily carried by water and fire/earth to provide proper support with its auras.

 

Firebrand is busted and core guardian has easy access to support. Any guardian elite spec that isn't straight up damage oriented like DH is gonna lean into being able to support while doing other things.

 

Druid is a support spec for a class with no foundation to play as a proper support build. The more support options you strip away from it, the worse its gonna be as a support. And no, all it does isn't just "heal and heal" forever, it provides some buffs and has great CC access. Anet has to refine these aspects of the class so they all feel better. You can still work those tools into a damage oriented build.

 

If core ranger had better tools to support people without druid, there would have been room to design druid in a similar way to scourge in that it can provide some sort of additional support. But it doesn't. The irony is that even though druid is heavily leaning into being a support, it gets lopsided. You'd like to use several competing traits from druid at once, while core ranger itself doesn't bring all that much to create some synergy.

 

This is why I keep bringing up that Nature Magic needs better tools to provide ranger with some support capabilites. It would help druid in its current state, but it would also allow for Anet to push some more role diversity for druid itself. I personally don't think it needs it, it just needs better scaling for both damage and healing and to refine what it does now and improve and rework the things that never worked.

 

I'm assuming you mainly play PvE. Well, they can rework druid all they want, in PvE you're gonna remain as a spirit slave anyways, so it doesn't make a difference.

 

I get what you mean, I really do, and you have a good point

 

the thing is, I really dont give a sh.. about the why, why are things like this, only care about the how, how can we fix them...

 

I dont care if they have to overbloat druid like they did to scourge or firebrand. just do it

 

there are 18 elite specs, soon to be 27. Druid cannot be the ONLY ONE that works just for one and only one thing while absolutly every other spec gets to do multiple things when built differently.

 

at the most basic level every single spec should be able to fend for  themselves in PvE doing damage. obviously not everyone can be chart toppers, but at least have some dignity, the discrepancies shouldnt be too extreme.

 

Druid is lagging enormously behind everyone else and probably cant do even half the average dps even if they removed ALL support capabilities from their build and tried for full dps.

 

That has to be fixed ASAP

 

 

 

alternatively, remove ALL, and I do mean ALL, ABSOLUTLY ALL damage from scrapper, firebrand, scourge and tempest. let them be PURE supports and absolutly nothing else.

 

fair is fair

 

 

ps: you also seem to have a really weird concept of what is and what isnt support.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Konrad Curze.5130

[Lazze.9870]

15 hours ago, Konrad Curze.5130 said:

 

ps: you also seem to have a really weird concept of what is and what isnt support.

 

You can't look at tempest, scrapper and scourge all by themselves and proclaim them as "support specs". They have support abilities, but they wouldn't function in their current support roles without the core class to back them up. 

 

Especially scrapper. It was never designed to be a support, but Anet has (deliberately, unless it is a freakish accident) tweaked it to make it the perfect support for wvw in combination with core engineer.

 

Keep in mind I'm mainly talking from a PvP/WvW perspective. To me it doesn't matter as far as PvE goes because druid will always be stuck with harrier gear and full spirits unless they demolish the spirits. I don't have an urge to do open world pve on druid, why would I when soulbeast always will kill things quicker.

 

Druid is weird because ranger is the only class that has received a spec that is leaning towards support, but with very few core abilities to back up such a spec. It is arguably the worst class in that regard when you look beyond being carried by spirits in PvE (yes, I'd even rate thief higher, or at least around the same level). The pet mechanic is useless for support (hence the question of whether it should be there to begin with - removing it would also open up possibilities to diversify it because you'd lose the positives of having the pet and focus the spec for team fights) and other than spirits it doesn't really have anything at all. Healing Spring is pretty much the only core ranger ability with great team utility outside of PvE.

 

I'd rather have druid being good as support in all game modes than diversifying it to the point where it will never be competitively viable in a role like that. That doesn't necessarily mean that it should be complete trash damage wise, though. You should be able to go full berserk gear and get some good damage out of staff 1, 2 and 4, CA5 etc.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[tuchi.6973]

The druid in this game, needs a urgent rework, nobody plays it because of how bad it is, and the few people who play it are trappers or things that are definitely not druids, Arena-net should read this forum and take note that players  need a good druid.

 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 7/5/2021 at 12:23 AM, Caeledh.5437 said:

I said pretty much he same thing in another thread recently. And mechanically Ventari is much more to my tastes than Druid.

 

Even revenant's Shiro feels more druidic than GW2's druid. Just for having green glowy effects.

 

If ANet would stop cramming cooldowns and other dinky mechanics into revenant, I'd just play them. Unfortunately with 2 out of 2 elite specs pooping on the promise and fun of the base profession, investing any time or effort in my revenant characters seems insane.

 

But that's a different problem.

 

Even ventari feels more druid than 10x druids 😛

 

Druid could play similiar to ventari actually more support to others than himself, the only thing good on Druid is the Avatar form, besides that its a CC root bot.

 

Avatar form needs to be 10 alies targeted, i assume Grace of the Land it is still 10 alied effected wiki says so.

 

Staff:

Solar beam needs to heal others more than the druid, so...swap heals, would not incerase staff auto damage  since its a beam and cant be abosrved nor reflected, can be only blocked or dodged.

Astral wisp need to be a ammo skill. (note 1 per target). trait that reduce staff skills would improve this as well,  having 3 of these on enemies would also cover for the loss of healing from auto atacks in favout or allies.

Ancestral grace i think its a good skill

Vine Surge, seams a nice skill

Sublime convertion, would increase its size 🙂 like a big shield  wall that also pulses direct small heals to players arround.

 

Pet skills give very small small heals to alies nearby.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 7/12/2021 at 4:44 AM, Lazze.9870 said:

I'd rather have druid being good as support in all game modes than diversifying it to the point where it will never be competitively viable in a role like that. That doesn't necessarily mean that it should be complete trash damage wise, though. You should be able to go full berserk gear and get some good damage out of staff 1, 2 and 4, CA5 etc.

 

The reason you can't is because of the CC access.  From a competitive standpoint staff is the absolute best kiting weapon ranger has--it literally has everything.  Most people have no idea how to use it and thus ignore it, but it's hard to die when properly using a staff unless you get very outnumbered. 

 

Essentially Druid is competitively viable due to how good staff is, how effective CA/personal heals/stealth are, and the CC access it has...they'd have to rework all of that to increase damage potential.  I personally don't see why anyone wants that when we have soulbeast for damage.

 

For me, only rework I'd be fine with is moving ancient seeds to personal CC only, making wisp do something useful, and putting stability on glyph of stars.  Everything else functions fine in terms of actual druid role and current game state.  

 

As at this point, Druid is way more CC oriented than healer oriented, and that kind of seems the direction after PoF when the 'true healers' came on board.