What do alliances mean?

[Dawdler.8521]

34 minutes ago, gloflop.3510 said:

Not much will change for a casual seldom WvW player. You will be able to play WvW as before. The people around you may be changing more rapidly but that will not be a big issue. There will always be nice and not so nice people around. However, if you have a friend or two who you enjoy playing with, this can become tricky.

Tricky... or easier?

 

If the 7+1w transfer system still works as Anet described, imagine just looking at someone play and say "hey what alliance are you on, I wanna join!". Maybe you can join their guild, maybe the alliance has a more open "community guild" you can join. And you can even ask this of enemies. You'll automaticly join them the next shuffle.

 

Isnt that easier than working out which server to transfer to to get all your "friends" in one place?

[gloflop.3510]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Tricky... or easier?

 

If the 7+1w transfer system still works as Anet described, imagine just looking at someone play and say "hey what alliance are you on, I wanna join!". Maybe you can join their guild, maybe the alliance has a more open "community guild" you can join. And you can even ask this of enemies. You'll automaticly join them the next shuffle.

 

Isnt that easier than working out which server to transfer to to get all your "friends" in one place?

I took the following case into consideration: The player is seldom in WvW, the player has no WvW guild and would join as a random a random alliance. If he now finds a nice person on his current alliance who he enjoys and likes to play with, both either join the same WvW guild or they will go separate ways after the next relink. That is what I mean with trickier. I agree with you that there are occasions in the game where playing with friends will become easier but not in the particular case.

[Dawdler.8521]

42 minutes ago, gloflop.3510 said:

I took the following case into consideration: The player is seldom in WvW, the player has no WvW guild and would join as a random a random alliance. If he now finds a nice person on his current alliance who he enjoys and likes to play with, both either join the same WvW guild or they will go separate ways after the next relink. That is what I mean with trickier. I agree with you that there are occasions in the game where playing with friends will become easier but not in the particular case.

If they are in the same alliance, even in different guilds, they join the same world next reshuffle too.

 

I think you are confusing world (ie the dynamically generated server with 2500+ players) and the alliance (a group of guilds with max 500 players that always join the same world).

 

The system do mean you have to put some effort into WvW - join a guild, join an alliance - instead of just coasting along on "your" server, but there really isnt anything tricky about it. It gives players more control over how they group themselves.

 

If people dont want to do that its fine, you land on a random world. That is very easy.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[MedievalThings.5417]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If they are in the same alliance, even in different guilds, they join the same world next reshuffle too.

 

I think you are confusing world (ie the dynamically generated server with 2500+ players) and the alliance (a group of guilds with max 500 players that always join the same world).

 

The system do mean you have to put some effort into WvW - join a guild, join an alliance - instead of just coasting along on "your" server, but there really isnt anything tricky about it. It gives players more control over how they group themselves.

 

If people dont want to do that its fine, you land on a random world. That is very easy.

That's the point though.  Guild size = 500 players.  Alliance size 5 guilds = 2500 players.  Estimated world size was around 2800.  The system will start grouping them on the same world, as the system is designed to do.  It's the reason there are several 2500 member alliances already, and have been since it was announced.  Anet was hoping that this would mean that they could match 2 or 3 2500 member alliances against each other for matchups.  Making it balanced.  But that isn't going to be what happens.  All the blobs avoid each other now or transfer when they face an equal size blob in their playtime.  Alliances aren't going to fix that.  Alliances are just going to change the name of the place you play (server to world) but players are still going to exploit it to fight doors and numbers half their size.

 

Without a reason for players to fight and hold stuff, which used to be server pride, the game is nothing more than "how fast can I get loot (wxp)?".  Giant boonball fighting pugs and doors.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Ubi.4136

[phreeak.1023]

People can react how they want but I will say it again. When alliances work how we think it does. 

 

WvW dies. 

 

We have for sure then 2 big fighting alliances with maybe 2 Meatshield guilds for ppt and the rest is some karma train alliances or smaller fighting Guilds with low numbers. Every small roaming group without an alliance have to deal every 2 month with completely new people. 

 

Alliances of guilds will fail because of toxic or elitists behavior, guilds will kick out of it. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by phreeak.1023

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Ubi.4136 said:

That's the point though.  Guild size = 500 players.  Alliance size 5 guilds = 2500 players.  Estimated world size was around 2800.  The system will start grouping them on the same world, as the system is designed to do.  It's the reason there are several 2500 member alliances already, and have been since it was announced.  Anet was hoping that this would mean that they could match 2 or 3 2500 member alliances against each other for matchups.  Making it balanced.  But that isn't going to be what happens.  All the blobs avoid each other now or transfer when they face an equal size blob in their playtime.  Alliances aren't going to fix that.  Alliances are just going to change the name of the place you play (server to world) but players are still going to exploit it to fight doors and numbers half their size.

 

Without a reason for players to fight and hold stuff, which used to be server pride, the game is nothing more than "how fast can I get loot (wxp)?".  Giant boonball fighting pugs and doors.

You are incorrect. You are confusing them.

 

1 alliance would be 500 players, just like a guild - anet wasnt exactly sure, but its the only sensible size and thats what they proposed. They cant be smaller than guilds (then people just use guilds) and them being larger would go against the principle of doing it for better dividing the numbers. So 500 is the only value that work. An alliance of multiple guilds could be 100+250+50 (3 guilds) as a random example. You wouldnt be able to join this alliance with another 250 man guild. That guild need another/new alliance.

 

The estimated world size was ~2500.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[gloflop.3510]

3 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

If they are in the same alliance, even in different guilds, they join the same world next reshuffle too.

 

I think you are confusing world (ie the dynamically generated server with 2500+ players) and the alliance (a group of guilds with max 500 players that always join the same world).

 

The system do mean you have to put some effort into WvW - join a guild, join an alliance - instead of just coasting along on "your" server, but there really isnt anything tricky about it. It gives players more control over how they group themselves.

 

If people dont want to do that its fine, you land on a random world. That is very easy.

Yes, I mixed up alliances and worlds a bit but anyway, we ended up at the same conclusion. It is very easy if one is fine with landing on a random world. It is trickier (but not very tricky) if one wants to play with friends.

[blp.3489]

If you are a member of a large guild with few players that play wvw will you end up heavily outnumbered?  Will we want to look for wvw-specific guilds to maximize the number of allied players on the map?

[Jski.6180]

Over all it means your going to have to make a chose (or make a lot of new accounts) of who you want to wvw with and how that group will chose to wvw with other groups. Even the non chose means your going to be with a "random" group.

[Aeolus.3615]

Best way will be to not overstack in one timezone lol.... i bet some commanders will be mad since they expecto to stack max players at every since timezone lol....so they can win pvd.

 

have a certain  number of players all arround the clock wil be more easy to organize...

i bet some NA guild will move to  EU timezone in expection fitgh empty timezone and EU guild to the same.

meanwhile oceanics guilds... so who pays more for us?? 😄

Edited July 13, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Boh.4568]

So in the end now it doesn't matter which server you're in? No more need to spend 30000 gems for server transfer just to play with someone? Just join the same guild, choose it at the beginning of the reshuffle and done?

This is great!

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

currently, we do know nothing about "how alliances works", since we have no further info if Anet will use the latest given "plan"/preview of "Alliances"

 

if i may remind u, it was said to come some YEARS ago by now. approximately, something wasn't working for Anet within the last known "Alliances"-plan. therefore, the alliances-beta will do something different, likely.

 

therefore, we know as much as jon sno. not so much.

[subversiontwo.7501]

1 hour ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

currently, we do know nothing about "how alliances works", since we have no further info if Anet will use the latest given "plan"/preview of "Alliances"

 

if i may remind u, it was said to come some YEARS ago by now. approximately, something wasn't working for Anet within the last known "Alliances"-plan. therefore, the alliances-beta will do something different, likely.

 

therefore, we know as much as jon sno. not so much.

I'd say it's the other way around. It is possible something has changed on the design side however it is more likely that nothing larger has changed on the design side. Why? Because we know what "wasn't working". We know Ray laid the groundwork connecting design and programming (forum post). We know he had it ready for bulk programming (forum post). We also know that Ray got pulled off the team (WvW stream). We also had that confirmed by Colin in the return article from the other week where he simply stated that WvW as a whole had resources pulled.

 

As a funny aside, that is also what happened to the design process (2016-2019). It had resources first pulled to PvE (prior to the 2018 announcement) and later replacement resources lost in the layoffs. They've been on and off with Alliances to ridiculous degrees but, hey, at least that reflects their attention to WvW as whole 🤣.

Edited July 16, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[Strider Pj.2193]

On 7/13/2021 at 1:14 PM, Aeolus.3615 said:

Best way will be to not overstack in one timezone lol.... i bet some commanders will be mad since they expecto to stack max players at every since timezone lol....so they can win pvd.

 

have a certain  number of players all arround the clock wil be more easy to organize...

i bet some NA guild will move to  EU timezone in expection fitgh empty timezone and EU guild to the same.

meanwhile oceanics guilds... so who pays more for us?? 😄

Stacking one time zone is actually likely one way that an alliance could become formidable (as far as ‘winning’ matchups)

 

An alliance of SEA and/or OCX players could easily be in a spot to be one of the more formidable alliances making whichever world they go to, one of the favorites.  
 

Of course, they would likely face mostly doors and it would be boring AF, but we know ‘winning’ is what some people are about.

 

I don’t think it happens, but it would be one path to fairly unbalanced matchups.

[enkidu.5937]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:42 AM, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

currently, we do know nothing about "how alliances works", since we have no further info if Anet will use the latest given "plan"/preview of "Alliances"

 

if i may remind u, it was said to come some YEARS ago by now. approximately, something wasn't working for Anet within the last known "Alliances"-plan. therefore, the alliances-beta will do something different, likely.

 

therefore, we know as much as jon sno. not so much.

We know Anet’s roadmap:

 

1. All servers will be deleted

2. You can only be part of a community if a guild leader allows you to join

3. Transfers will be restricted

 

. . . what details do you need besides?

[XenesisII.1540]

5 hours ago, enkidu.5937 said:

We know Anet’s roadmap:

1. All servers will be deleted

2. You can only be part of a community if a guild leader allows you to join

3. Transfers will be restricted

 . . what details do you need besides?

 

Your "current community" could make a guild, it would have room for 499 friends.

You could be the one calling the shots too if you made it.

Wouldn't be hard, a community would be happy to want to stick together.

[Gorem.8104]

Alliances means wvw will finally be improved and worked on, it will be better for everyone and give better more balanced matchups for each player. 

[LetoII.3782]

15 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

An alliance of SEA and/or OCX players could easily be in a spot to be one of the more formidable alliances making whichever world they go to, one of the favorites.  
 

Of course, they would likely face mostly doors and it would be boring AF, but we know ‘winning’ is what some people are about.

Considering an alliance is supposed to accommodate 250 players...

And a lot of these groups have ALREADY spent the whole game stacked up...

And most of the players in these timezones could fit into a 250 player alliance....

And not having another large group to fight has never been a consideration......

 

I think the result is fairly predictable

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by LetoII.3782