Removal of Reflect

[The Boz.2038]

*YOU* devolved it into the ranger memeland!

What a laughable attempt at an argument this makes. Again. For the umpteenth time.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

41 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

*YOU* devolved it into the ranger memeland!

What a laughable attempt at an argument this makes. Again. For the umpteenth time.

Whatever lies you need to tell yourself Boz, but Rangers QQing about reflect is a meme mate.

[Lazze.9870]

It all boils down to the fact that, yes, Signet of the Hunt is an underwhelming skill, BUT longbow has never been an effective zerg weapon to begin with, except back when people ran focus parties. It is carried by barrage, if not for that skill you'd need 100 % uptime of projectile block denial for it even to be worth running with a zerg while staying on tag.

 

I'm still assuming we're talking about zerg play here, because there is no issues with longbow for smallscale and roaming. And there is really no issue too leech from a zerg with your longbow by playing around it as it is now either.

 

If we're talking zerging, as in being a core part of a squad, then it is as simple as this: soulbeast was perfect in every way (almost, stance sharing could be better, but it's good enough) EXCEPT that it didn't get a good zerg weapon. Which means we're back to square one. If ranger is gonna be competetive in zergs (I don't think druid will ever be able to outperform scrapper, so that goes out the window immediately), it needs a good mechanic and/or utility PLUS a good weapon you can run alongside GS which is already good enough as your second option. There is potential with a hammer if that's what we get with the next elite spec, but the rest of the spec needs to be done right as well. Wells or similar for aoe damage or something that gives the profession good boon removal. Otherwise it will remain as an immob spam niche.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Very few actual viable arguments have been made against my proposal. I'd say it's going rather well.

Actually, there are many, including that EVERY class has access to melee weapons. 

 

And to be clear, it's not up to people to assail your suggestion so it doesn't get implemented. It's up to the people suggesting it be changed to make a compelling argument for that to happen. 

[The Boz.2038]

"Problem = Ranged projectile weapons suck in this format entirely, and are thus unused
Solution != Just don't pick them, lol, ezpz, make better builds"
You can't just repeat the problem back to me and pretend it's a solution.

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

"Problem = Ranged projectile weapons suck in this format entirely, and are thus unused
Solution != Just don't pick them, lol, ezpz, make better builds"
You can't just repeat the problem back to me and pretend it's a solution.

I'm not repeating that problem to you at all. The significance or validity of that problem is questionable to begin with. 

 

Regardless, using melee weapons isn't a 'pretend' solution to whatever problem you think exists ... it's intended. If you choose to use ineffective tools in a game mode, that's just a L2P problem. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[The Boz.2038]

Literally talking to circular mud.

[The Boz.2038]

"These weapons see no use, and that is a problem."
-"I don't think so. Just don't use those weapons. See, no problem. Since you disagree, you obviously don't know how the game works."
Your entire argument. Laughable, really.

[Aeolus.3615]

12 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

"These weapons see no use, and that is a problem."
-"I don't think so. Just don't use those weapons. See, no problem. Since you disagree, you obviously don't know how the game works."
Your entire argument. Laughable, really.

Wich weapon are of no use??

It is strange u are having issues with bow gameplay, i still find once in a while good rangers that know how to burst trough all my obsortion skill.... some cough me by surprise even if i abosrb the initial impact they will burst trough block uptime and absortion, like some even expect me to use dome so they can burst and down me, it not easy bit still they can do it, just a few secs, thing is they are tuned for that.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[The Boz.2038]

Basically any ranged weapon that primarily deals with projectile is affected. Those that deal with more projectiles are more heavily affected, unless an alternative exists. Engie rifle and pistol, ranger shortbow and longbow, warrior rifle (longbow to a lesser extent), thief rifle... Those are the worst hit, IMO. 

Where do these good rangers find you to burst you through all your obsortion skill?

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Basically any ranged weapon that primarily deals with projectile is affected. Those that deal with more projectiles are more heavily affected, unless an alternative exists. Engie rifle and pistol, ranger shortbow and longbow, warrior rifle (longbow to a lesser extent), thief rifle... Those are the worst hit, IMO. 

Where do these good rangers find you to burst you through all your obsortion skill?

 

i dont think they are really that bad, they have the advange of range usually and plus something else, most i think they have the +crowd control  utilily usage wich is ok since they are usally used with traits and utilities that will alow bypass block mechanics, they have their own usage well... guardian specter imo is the weakest of the range weapons imo even the CC will fail on moving targets...  Reflects per se arent that much and only last 6sec and usually they are on a long'ish CD as well, even so most players wont use reflects besides mesmer and well mesmers lol... could say guardians but its rare to see  guardians nowadays with a WoR since cant be spammed its not meta.

 

As funny it is the worse rangers ive found were in spvp mostly and some on WvW showing off their high rank from spvp and  back in the days some ultra tanky build that does alot of damage ike 15k hits(actually norn skills 😄 i belivve they still work by the standards pre dmage nerf), most even stay inside my dome trying to shoot at me, on spvp this would result in L2p noob coments from that person while they still shooting inside the dome... (that's why i believe theres some certain bias towards rangers players Anet buffed the class long time ago cause most players were horrendous bad).

Imo is still easyer to find a decent ranger in WvW that know when to counter and how, more  than in spvp(where i always get flamed cause no one uses unblockables)

 

 

I dont think many rangers know that unblockables work against more than just blocks,   also works against absortion and reflects as well, i think thats the issue.

 

note: 10 hits over 6seconds every 32 sec doesnt look that bad, its a burst windows that u have to bet, is part of the risk reward gameplay, if there no unblockable use a aoe to keep damaging the enemie some will move out their suposed safe zone duw how squishy they are.

If u stress some player  trough their reflect  ... that players if squshy will panic and mistakes will happen, if cant break LoS  need to burn dodges or some other way to avoid damage wich is good now he has  reflectrion and blocks burned out on heavy CD.

Most times if a ranger times well and baits enemies at the end  all that the ranger needs to do is 1 1 1 2 1 or something like that cause enemy wasted  all defenses(still happens to me  when i get a decent ranger poking me).

 

U need to become a master baiter  :< and bait ur enemies well, or just burst them by surprise when they are relfecting/blocking/absorving, a KD or KB trough that makes wonders  if they dont have stability.

Never use unblocksable uptime vs  a simple block  when in range an auto atack will burn its block.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

"These weapons see no use, and that is a problem."
 

No, that's not a problem ... and you don't know if that's true either. Your narrow perception AND your opinion-pushed-as-facts on the usefulness of different weapons in a game mode isn't a reason to remove reflects, especially when strategies to address those pseudo-problems (that only exist if you need to l2p) already exist. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Aeolus.3615]

39 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, that's not a problem ... and you don't know if that's true either. Your narrow perception AND your opinion-pushed-as-facts on the usefulness of different weapons in a game mode isn't a reason to remove reflects, especially when strategies to address those pseudo-problems (that only exist if you need to l2p) already exist. 

 

Aparentelly reapers are asking for bufs cause their class is weak 🙂 as well, sudently all classes are super weak???

 

 

Asking to removing reflects , its a bit l2p issue or lack of understanding how game actually works, or even better it is more like lack of combat experience than anything else.

 

Now if we all talk about druid 🙂 ???  its staff  actually ignores all that OP is complaining and its 1200 range.

its a nice weapon to moe target down when bow doesnt work

 

and Buff Druid 🙂

Edited July 19, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

*YOU* devolved it into the ranger memeland!

What a laughable attempt at an argument this makes. Again. For the umpteenth time.

You did it right in the opening post despite later claiming it was totally not about rangers, what's with the denial now? 🙃 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[The Boz.2038]

Using an example is a thing, you know. Besides merely mentioning ranger, as an example, in an off-hand remark, with the entire rest of the OP being clearly about the entire weapon profile of "ranged projectile", have you anything else?
Why is this *constantly*, *consistently* the point here? Are you able to accept the fact that you are wrong about this moot point, and move on with it already? I play scepter necro in WvW, for the love of kittens, how thick are you?

Edited July 19, 2021 by The Boz.2038

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Using an example is a thing, you know. Besides merely mentioning ranger, as an example, in an off-hand remark, with the entire rest of the OP being clearly about the entire weapon profile of "ranged projectile", have you anything else?
Why is this *constantly*, *consistently* the point here? Are you able to accept the fact that you are wrong about this moot point, and move on with it already? I play scepter necro in WvW, for the love of kittens, how thich are you?

"I started with a ranger meme (oh wait, example in an off-hand remark), but if someone followed it with ranger memes, it's on them and *THEY* devolved it into the ranger memeland! !"

 

lmao, no. If you didn't want it to be a ranger memeland, then maybe you shouldn't direct it that way right from the opening post, while singling out ranger in a silly manner in the first place 🤔 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Sobx.1758 None of us are going to get thru to him. He's had ample opportunity to save face, and instead chooses to keep the meme alive.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

The most frustrating thing for me is visual clarity in larger fights. Firing into a Firebrand reflect bubble that gets culled is not enjoyable because you just straight up can't see it. IMO the change in icon for auras was a step in the wrong direction as the previous ones were much more visually distinct. Personally I wish they would revert the magnetic aura icon change and perhaps introduce a unique icon for when players are standing in Feedback/FB bubbles.

[Shroud.2307]

2 minutes ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

The most frustrating thing for me is visual clarity

T H I S

Although for myself it's at any scale. At least in 1v1's you know where the reflect is coming from, but even at small scale there are reflects that are difficult to see or that you don't know the source. Enemy and allied Firebrand bubbles are hard to discern from one another and Magnetic Aura looks almost the same as Fire Aura. And although it isn't a reflect, Swirling Winds is another that's very hard to see.

I disagree with the OP in regard to removing them, but many of them do definitely need some clearer visuals. 

[The Boz.2038]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Sobx.1758 None of us are going to get thru to him. He's had ample opportunity to save face, and instead chooses to keep the meme alive.

Okay, at this point, how am I keeping the meme alive? 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

The most frustrating thing for me is visual clarity in larger fights. Firing into a Firebrand reflect bubble that gets culled is not enjoyable because you just straight up can't see it. IMO the change in icon for auras was a step in the wrong direction as the previous ones were much more visually distinct. Personally I wish they would revert the magnetic aura icon change and perhaps introduce a unique icon for when players are standing in Feedback/FB bubbles.

Yeah that is a better direction for the conversation to go. Culling of animations that are a big cue not to use projectiles shouldn't happen.

[Obtena.7952]

50 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah that is a better direction for the conversation to go. Culling of animations that are a big cue not to use projectiles shouldn't happen.

It would be ... except we are on page 9 of a thread that was based on an absurd suggestion that people continue to defend. #newthread

Edited July 19, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It would be ... except we are on page 9 of a thread that was based on an absurd suggestion that people continue to defend. #newthread

Indeed... its time to let this one die guys.

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:36 AM, The Boz.2038 said:

What makes you think the current skills that offer reflect wouldn't get block instead, or that rangers and deadeyes would get perma-unblockable 100% uptime?

 

What makes you think there's then any advantage to running melee if the attacks will then be blocked regardless?  The way I see it then is that the only viable tactic is to only ever run full ranger comps from what would otherwise be overwhelming tactical advantage.

 

Reflects/deflects are an essential part of the game, because if they're removed, there would be no reason to play melee unless it dealt substantially more damage/ranged dealt substantially less.

[Abyssisis.3971]

Now that I’m playing on my guardian again instead of my rangers, reflects need to stay. Lol

 

Tho, I feel that they do need the unblockable treatment and given a stack of projectiles to block, instead of block an unlimited amount of projectiles.