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🗫 List your top WvW concerns over the years [comments/feedbacks/solutions] ⚖


Woop S.7851

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14 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Nostalgia is a powerful thing. WvW was a negative reward gold sink back then.

And yet it was way more active than it is now. Just proves my point ...

14 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Give a Skirmish pip for killing another player if they give wxp then. That would incentivize people to not AFK and push them to find fights.

Just incentivises players to zerg down outnumbered ones, not find actual fights (which always involves the risk of losing).

 

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@Josh Davis.7865 If you do implement any new, fun, and/or rewarding 'rewards' you'll have to walk a fine line, and I can guarantee that no matter what you do there will be someone who vehemently QQs about it on the forums. So whatever you decide there will be people who love it and those that hate it. That should not stop you or anyone else at Anet.

In WvW we have two set of opposing views when it comes to 'rewards.'

 

One side that just wants open fields for mass Zerg vs Zerg "Real WvW" combat where the rewards don't matter and feel that any sort of reward system will simultaneously cause AFKers while also causing mass KTrains to happen that then limit their numbers for the ZvZ "Real WvW."

 

The side is mostly people who duel, run havoc, solo/duo roam, small scale fighters, scouts, Dolyak runners, and siege refreshers. Which for people whose PCs enter slideshow mode when a Zerg gets within 2000 range of them, is the real WvW. These people want better rewards in general, of some sort.

There is an issue with the Skirmish Track and its passive nature with the participation timer. It needs a more active component to it to incentivize people, like gaining pips from killing players if they give WXP. But again there is a fine line to walk there as if the 'active' component is too fast then it may cause 'KTraining.'

Edited by Lan Deathrider.5910
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1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The side is mostly people who duel, run havoc, solo/duo roam, small scale fighters, scouts, Dolyak runners, and siege refreshers. Which for people whose PCs enter slideshow mode when a Zerg gets within 2000 range of them, is the real WvW. These people want better rewards in general, of some sort.

I mostly duel, run havoc, solo/duo roam, small scale fight. And i definitely do NOT want "more rewards in general". Don't make up stuff and pretend to speak for others.

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Just now, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

I mostly duel, run havoc, solo/duo roam, small scale fight. And i definitely do NOT want "more rewards in general". Don't make up stuff and pretend to speak for others.

That is why I said "in general" as it was not a blanket statement covering all of such players. Cool your jets Umbra. It's okay for us to have different opinions on the matter. I want more rewards, but I also don't want more AFKers and more KTrains. Just give Josh all the input you can and hope good decisions get made that make most of us happy.

 

That comment to him was to inform him of the dichotomy amongst WvW players in regards to why some people want more rewards, while other people are afraid of getting more rewards. The game mode needs to be more rewarding. What those rewards are and how we get them though is the sticking point. As far as 'stuff that benefits actively playing the mode,' we already have that with the Skirmish Reward chests, that end up getting stockpiled along with Gifts of Battle and Emblems, so clearly that was a failure of a reward system.

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On 7/7/2021 at 6:18 PM, Woop S.7851 said:

*Please list your top WvW concerns over the years
*Will these issues persist after alliances is launched?

*Any constructive solutions that will resolve these long-term?

 

*Be as concise & precise as possible when listing concerns

*Be as creative as possible when listing solutions!
*It is you! The players that shapes the community and future of this game! 👍

 

Examples to start off..

1. Hackers/exploiters roam freely in WvW
Solutions:
- Steam-powered anti-hack
- Player driven dishonor report system (once reported by 'x' players during a match, disable this player from joining the next match-up after 'x' minutes/hours)
 

As someone wrongfully permabanned in another game by an automatic thing due to mass reports. Dear God no. 

 

Also the trolling potential of this one....

Quote

2. Perma-stealth of certain professions makes them overpowered
Solutions:
- Alliance matchup system should prevent 50 thieves on 1 side
- Instead of fully invisible, use a translucent silhouette
- Apply 'Reveal' if first hit misses or is dodged

etc.


Your turn..
 

First 2 are just weird

 

Third one sure, already applied to deadeye rifle. Works there

 

Tho that really highlights how range/mobility are much much bigger problems than stealth

Edited by lodjur.1284
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10 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

What's everyone's favorite idea for cool match-up rewards?

There's really great reward that could be used, but was forgotten: WvW Golden Dolyak Finisher!
It's quite difficult to answer though, from one way it would be nice to have a "reason" to get #1 place in MU, on the other hand if it's something shiny/desirable for PvE it may backfire in overall gameplay and making it slugfest of PPT.
I was thinking about giving Memories of Battle and Grandmaster Mark Shard as rewards for placements since they're unique to WvW and will speed-up a bit of obtaining gear for new players, but I'm kinda afraid that Shards may become useless at some point so it would be nice if you could also exchange them for something else like Superior Sieges.
There's a bit of currencies available in WvW, so they can be used as "rewards" IMO.

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Perhaps the reward for match placement doesn't need to be yet another currency or system or pile of gold. What if, instead, the winning team received an account-wide "Major Boon" (on participating accounts - however that's measured - pips gained, etc) that simply increased WXP, reward track gain, and pip gain for the next matchup, while 2nd place got the "Minor" version of that?

This increases overall liquid gold (as players request) and also encourages continued play in WvW to take advantage of the reward.

I'm no BIG WvWer but I dabble from time to time, so perhaps there's some important push-pull element I'm missing here. In my mind, though, this seems like a solid option to keep players invested. And this would still want to be done in conjunction with important tweaks to reward options (namely, as others say, ways to spend Emblems, tickets, etc) and the addition of more content variety (Maps, Siege tweaks/new types, and IMO keep Bonus Events coming) to keep things exciting.

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1 hour ago, DaG.5103 said:

Perhaps the reward for match placement doesn't need to be yet another currency or system or pile of gold. What if, instead, the winning team received an account-wide "Major Boon" (on participating accounts - however that's measured - pips gained, etc) that simply increased WXP, reward track gain, and pip gain for the next matchup, while 2nd place got the "Minor" version of that?

yo this isn't bad. they had something like this before mega servers and it was a decent incentive for pve players to join wvw, not great by any means but it was something. if they can at least design a buff that keeps people playing wvw, and hopefully draws in pve players (increases in magic find, gold drops, karma etc. like in AP account rewards) then i think this could be a great addition.

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18 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

What's everyone's favorite idea for cool match-up rewards?

Can you be a little more clear about match up rewards? Do you mean skirmishes or at the end of a matchup. Either way I would like to see personal achievements be reused for rewards, as rewarding winning servers has caused many issues in the past. I believe many of those same issues would continue with alliances. I like the idea of WvW Seasons, where we can personally complete sets of achievements for rewards, similar to what we currently have with PvE return to Living World. Many games use this concept, so many of us are familiar with it.

 

Personally I would like a way to get the Gift of exploration through WvW, by completing a set of reward tracks for each region. You would only be able to work on one track at a time, and completing it would unlock the next tier. I believe the time investment would be similar to pve. 

 

More legendary trinkets would also be nice.

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I don't really care about rewards that much, but it's annoying get same stuff whole time. Like same warlord armor piece every week. It was cool to get new armor set, but after you own all pieces some exotic doesn't really excite that much. All reward tracks are kind of boring too. Mainly annoying get those boxes whole time. Game is full of stuff and items, but you just can't get anything fun if you play wvw. I have played game like +12.5k hours and my wardrobe is mostly empty.

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Ok well this took a while to write out, I'm sure there's more to change but a first ten to mind seemed fine to go with.

Not even sure it's worth it, but oh well had some time to list stuff....

 

1. Class Balance
Whole list of problems, with some classes given too much for certain situations, some classes overperforming in the meta's, but nothing really can be suggested or done because another expansion is coming with new elite specs, and everything will be tossed up in the air, so there's no point for major changes right now. I'm just really sad that a couple of my favorites classes have been gutted so much, I just don't even want to play right now, I guess I just need to wait until the expansion to see if the spark gets lit again.

 

2. Combat Balance
Boons, conditions, corruption, conversions, such a mess, it's obvious which is highly effective and has taken over combat as a whole, but again nothing to be done until we see what's up with the new elites, the counters have been nerfed to the ground multiple times, but we'll see how the flow goes from there I guess. It's just not really fun for me right now.

 

3. Currency
For WvW purchasable rewards I feel it's not necessary to have double gated/limited currencies to purchase them, skirmish tickets are the major currency for these rewards and already hard gated per week, but memories of battle should either be made more available or cut in half for cost of items. I'm not bothered with currency not having 100's of items to buy with it like some others, all currency are there to buy certain things and obtaining them are controlled in those certain ways, which I'm fine with, as long as it doesn't turn into years to buy most of the items with it. It seems really terrible to sell items that require so much time to acquire, and it makes it even worse for newer players over time to play catchup. Eventually I would like to see legendary pieces for every slot earnable just in wvw.

 

4. Seasonal Play, Playing for fun
I've been waiting for some celebrations of wvw, such as maybe the return of tournaments. Obviously that hasn't happened because of how badly balanced populations are, there's no real point in trying to give 1st 2nd 3rd place rewards when you know which servers are going to win before the tournament even starts. But who's to say these rewards should only be given during competitive tournaments? Why isn't there seasons? much like games like diablo 3 or path of exile heck even the division, which all run seasons in earning achievements to earn various cosmetics for your account, and so many other games. 

 

Tournament achievements came down to personal play anyways, so why not have those but add in cosmetics for those seasonal achievements? Just like the current living story events they have, which is basically like a seasonal play. It's kinda sad that this game is built for cosmetics but highly lacks it in wvw. Like even add in guild achievements to earn skins for guild claims, like maybe one season your guild does a dozen achievements and it earns Eternal Necropolis(net in dbl) halloween type skin that comes on when you claim a tower. There's a ton of things to put cosmetics on in wvw, from objectives skins, player skins, hell even another variation of the legendary backpiece or armor, a different color(like the sab weapons), different color finishers, different nameplates, siege skins, etc. It can't be that hard to change colors right?

 

Why isn't there at least one week a month of something different? Even something as old as world of warcraft runs bonus weekends for their pvp battlegrounds content every week, I'm currently playing star trek online at the moment and every week they have some bonus event running. The last couple months have been nice having the wxp bonus week, the no down state week, and the wxp bonus week coming up again, then maybe do the no white swords week again, disable tactivator for a week, and sure bring back golem and core skill week if they're actually fixed, maybe a 2x skirmish reward week, or a week of the bloodlust being double power.

 

But it all should be a regular thing like the festivals are in pve, focus players into certain areas of the game for a week and keep it exciting to play and want to earn stuff from it.

 

5. Objectives
They need to be updated, made important. We've seen the different designs, connections, and functions of towers and keeps in core(alpha/ebg) maps, and in the eotm and desert maps. For the most part keeps are important to have for a waypoint to get you around the map or back into fights faster, heck even be a focal point to attack and take it away. Towers in core were used as warning areas for defenders, but also an optional place to forward an attack, such as swt on bay keep, or the north towers on garrison. As the designs have gone along I feel like the connections have been loosened, and a lot of objectives just feel like solo objectives in the middle of no where, places which are harder to reach and at the end of the day less care to defend them, it's just easier to back cap.

 

I've suggested a few ideas over the years. Things I've seen work in other games, like a lattice connection between objectives (as seen in planetside), or capture smaller objectives in order to attack the big one as seen in elder scrolls online or warhammer online, so let's say you need to capture the west camps in order to do siege damage to bay, or if you want to take nwt you need to hold nwc and nc first. Or maybe adding stat bonuses(like blood lust bonus) to holding an objective so like if you held nwt your side on the map would get 25 strength, or hold net and get 25 toughness, as examples. 

 

Planetside also had their objective be specific on item unlocks for that map, so capturing one base would give you access to vehicles, another base would give you access to air vehicles. I guess the way you could work that into wvw is capturing a south tower would give you access to catapults, capturing a keep would give access to trebs and shield gens, although this idea may be restrictive. Another idea was just make every wall and gate one level, no upgrades to them but the usual for the other stuff like more guards or the siege, especially to Smc, which probably should just stay at tier one always.

 

Bottom line is I feel like this whole ppt game play and objectives could use a refresh update.

 

6. Maps
We all have our favorites, and I think everyone should have access to the maps they enjoy in wvw. Going forward I think they should redesign the home maps to be set up like EBG or EOTM with every side having the same amount of keeps/towers/camps on their sides. This opens up the possibility of adding more maps without having to replace older maps of the two different types. Matches having 1 alpine, 1 desert, 1 ebg, 1 eotm, would be ideal.

 

The easiest way to change this would be to add another tower to the side keeps around the area where north side camps are at, and obviously the camps may need to be adjusted, it's not necessary to have 4 towers like on ebg, but two of each per side in the home maps would be fine. It would also be a good opportunity to just update the maps and maybe even change it's themes a bit.

 

7. Stealth
Sigh. Long argued about, not even sure why I bother mentioning it because it will never change. I just feel like it gives way too much benefits with too little to counter whether it's thieves having an entire trait line dedicated to it, or the mass amounts given too easily on scrappers, or even ranger long bow giving it every 12s, not even mesmers have one that low of a cooldown. I would like to see it function a little more in line with how WoW does it, if you run in front of someone it should give off a hint you're there, it shouldn't be 100% hit button and you can't see me at all. But like I said never going to change so not really much point talking much more about it.

 

8. Skill range
As someone else stated, there is no reason why arrows shots should go beyond their stated range, you can argue because physics, but there's plenty of other examples that don't follow this rule, like most bullet shots in the game. The only exception I think should be made for this rule is balista shots, but every single player class skill/ability should follow it's rules of range, the range limit is where it should finally drop much like any cannon shots and any other projectiles in the game.

 

9. Mini Tournament into Seasonal play
I don't know if alliances will solve the population problem, there's so much up in the air about it, we won't know until it's in action. But if that doesn't work out I don't think we should return to the full 6 weeks of tournament type of play we previously had. The devs have said it had a negative impact on the mode with less people in wvw probably caused by burnout anyways.

 

I've proposed before having mini tournaments that start from Friday reset that runs for 24 hours so that every time zone gets their prime time chances in it. You could do this over a period of like 4 weeks where you take the 1st 2nd 3rd place points and total it up for an overall winner and then I dunno give out the dolyak finishers. Having it down to one day of the week would eliminate burnout, plus it would take place on the weekend when most players are playing anyways.

 

10. Anet
Keep your word about wvw being a cornerstone, talk with us more, and start making some effort into getting players into wvw, and rewarding them for their time. Look at balance a little more on how it affects wvw, not just the pve side. And for the love of holy deities, find a way to return the second dodge back to Mirage.

 

11. Participation

Gaining participation should mostly be from being active, whether that be killing players or capturing objectives. I would like to see repairing walls and damage from siege no longer giving participation. Or at least lower their participation period to 1-2mins instead, or only giving up to level 3 participation. If you want to afk repair or hold 1 on a treb from smc you would only get the minimum rewards for minimum effort out of it. Sorry gift of battle peoples, but gift of exploration is a chore for wvw'ers as well.

 

12. Gift of Battle

Speaking of Gift of Battle, I think it should be changed and taken out as a reward track reward (maybe changed to give more memories of battle as the end reward instead). Exploring the wvw maps use to be part of the gift of exploration achievement, and I think they should put that part back into the game in order to obtain Gift of Battle instead. But instead of having the points of interest to collect inside the objectives, just have them at the gates of the objectives(this was the biggest complaint and hold up on them), so you would only need to run by the gate in order to get credit.

 

This would be beneficial in a few ways, it puts the exploration theme back into the gift for the pve'ers, it would allow them to finish the gift in less than the 6-8 hours required to finish it in the reward track, it would also promote them being active on the map instead of afking for participation.

 

They don't want to be there, and we don't want them in there afking either, so let's stop hard forcing them into it for 8 hours. The same goes for the gift of exploration.... but I know that won't change, so won't bother suggesting anything there.

 

Peace.

 

P.S Added two more.

Edited by XenesisII.1540
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1.- No use for common WvW loot, as Legendary Spikes, emblems of avenger and conqueror. It would be cool to use them to buy tickets or other WvW utilities like infusions or memories of battle, perhaps even some PvE items like provisioner tokens.

 

2.- Broken physics that allow players to break into structures without siege, as example:

How to jump into every objective of Alpine Borderlands with Warclaw - YouTube

To be honest I find ridiculous that this is not fixed yet, you could just set an invisible wall over gates while you fix the broken Warclaw physics jumps.

 

3.- Lack of novelties. I mean, Alliances is cool and I'm excited about it, but I think WvW would need more, specially if it is really a "cornerstone" of Guild Wars 2. I don't know, new maps? New mounts? Weekly WvW tournaments? Meta events that reward skirmish points? People need new things to do, PvE players have living world, PvP players have tournaments, what do we have?

 

4.- Lack of communication - I hope this will no longer be an issue with the new Anet's direction, specially after seeing a staff showing up here.

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13 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

1.- No use for common WvW loot, as Legendary Spikes, emblems of avenger and conqueror. It would be cool to use them to buy tickets or other WvW utilities like infusions or memories of battle, perhaps even some PvE items like provisioner tokens.

BIG desire right there amongst the WvW player base

13 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

2.- Broken physics that allow players to break into structures without siege, as example:

How to jump into every objective of Alpine Borderlands with Warclaw - YouTube

To be honest I find ridiculous that this is not fixed yet, you could just set an invisible wall over gates while you fix the broken Warclaw physics jumps.

Holy crap those still exists?!

13 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

3.- Lack of novelties. I mean, Alliances is cool and I'm excited about it, but I think WvW would need more, specially if it is really a "cornerstone" of Guild Wars 2. I don't know, new maps? New mounts? Weekly WvW tournaments? Meta events that reward skirmish points? People need new things to do, PvE players have living world, PvP players have tournaments, what do we have?

A once per month WXP bonus for a week would be nice. A once per month permanent Outnumbered would be nice. Some sort of Bonus Achievement week or like community goals in PvE where people turn in some number of tokens, like the Emblems, to get Skirmish Track reward pips would work too.

13 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

4.- Lack of communication - I hope this will no longer be an issue with the new Anet's direction, specially after seeing a staff showing up here.

This. Please keep an open line of communication. And remind the balance team to do the same.

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12 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

5. Objectives
They need to be updated, made important. We've seen the different designs, connections, and functions of towers and keeps in core(alpha/ebg) maps, and in the eotm and desert maps. For the most part keeps are important to have for a waypoint to get you around the map or back into fights faster, heck even be a focal point to attack and take it away. Towers in core were used as warning areas for defenders, but also an optional place to forward an attack, such as swt on bay keep, or the north towers on garrison. As the designs have gone along I feel like the connections have been loosened, and a lot of objectives just feel like solo objectives in the middle of no where, places which are harder to reach and at the end of the day less care to defend them, it's just easier to back cap.

 

I've suggested a few ideas over the years. Things I've seen work in other games, like a lattice connection between objectives (as seen in planetside), or capture smaller objectives in order to attack the big one as seen in elder scrolls online or warhammer online, so let's say you need to capture the west camps in order to do siege damage to bay, or if you want to take nwt you need to hold nwc and nc first. Or maybe adding stat bonuses(like blood lust bonus) to holding an objective so like if you held nwt your side on the map would get 25 strength, or hold net and get 25 toughness, as examples. 

 

Planetside also had their objective be specific on item unlocks for that map, so capturing one base would give you access to vehicles, another base would give you access to air vehicles. I guess the way you could work that into wvw is capturing a south tower would give you access to catapults, capturing a keep would give access to trebs and shield gens, although this idea may be restrictive. Another idea was just make every wall and gate one level, no upgrades to them but the usual for the other stuff like more guards or the siege, especially to Smc, which probably should just stay at tier one always.

 

Bottom line is I feel like this whole ppt game play and objectives could use a refresh update.

 

6. Maps
We all have our favorites, and I think everyone should have access to the maps they enjoy in wvw. Going forward I think they should redesign the home maps to be set up like EBG or EOTM with every side having the same amount of keeps/towers/camps on their sides. This opens up the possibility of adding more maps without having to replace older maps of the two different types. Matches having 1 alpine, 1 desert, 1 ebg, 1 eotm, would be ideal.

 

The easiest way to change this would be to add another tower to the side keeps around the area where north side camps are at, and obviously the camps may need to be adjusted, it's not necessary to have 4 towers like on ebg, but two of each per side in the home maps would be fine. It would also be a good opportunity to just update the maps and maybe even change it's themes a bit.

 

Here's a loose sketch I came up with, using the same number of objectives as the current borderland maps, that actually puts the areas in logical positions: https://ibb.co/8x6HZM6

 

Though, I do like the idea of adding an additional tower to each corner in the south, just as long as they adhere to the triangle layout of the towers and keep in the north on that picture.  Though, to be honest, we could probably do with LESS objectives on the map, so that defenders aren't so spread out, and can actually mount meaningful defenses.  The should already be in/around the areas ready to defend, rather than being spread far too thin, then trying to rush in to defend after the wall is down and hoping the first few in can contest the ring long enough for the rest to get there.

 

One other thing I'd like to touch on is that the game SHOULD be focused on PPT, but in order to get that PPT you should have to fight the enemy players at the objectives.  No PvDooring empty areas, no fights in the middle of nowhere.  "Fight at the nodes, not in between" is a staple of PvP in every other game, but for some reason that gets tossed out the window in WvW, and "open field fights" get glorified, because of a cascading number of issues.  Bad map design being one of them.  It should be a siege game.  Set up trebs in a tower, use open field catas/rams to speed the process along, treb another tower/keep, take down the wall, push in and fight the other players in there, capture the area.  While defenders set up defensive siege and use everyone else to fight the attackers under said siege, wipe them and counter attack.

 

Long, slow sieges result in epic battles.  Quick flips result in the areas being cheap, and people not caring about them.  

 

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11 minutes ago, Phantom.8130 said:

One other thing I'd like to touch on is that the game SHOULD be focused on PPT, but in order to get that PPT you should have to fight the enemy players at the objectives.

agree, but the only way to do that is have a corridor map with the only way forward being thru objectives (or something to force people to fight at certain objectives).

Edited by Stand The Wall.6987
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2 minutes ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

agree, but the only way to do that is have a corridor map with the only way forward being thru objectives (or something to force people to fight at certain objectives).

In part, yeah, though that's what the towers should be for.  To act as far exterior gateways to the keeps.  Though, it also needs to be easy for defenders to get to where they need to be quickly, rather than needing to play catch up to the attacking group that has the advantage of mobility and choice.  

 

If each map was designed specifically for each server to hold a third, like how EB is, so that people stop trying to hold their whole borderland map, then there should be a whole lot of fighting over camps and towers, but less overall dramatic shifts in PPT.  And if the thirds are designed Spawn>Keep>Tower, moving towards the center of the map, each server should have an easier time holding their keeps, while most of what's getting flipped are the towers, while creating lines of defense moving backwards.  

 

Let's say each server holds their third, and they have their third fully upgraded, with waypoints in the keeps.  If they have to capture the towers to get to the keeps, then the defenders don't have to worry too much about the keeps, and instead just focus on the towers, which would also put more of the action in the middle of the map.

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23 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

As someone wrongfully permabanned in another game by an automatic thing due to mass reports. Dear God no. 

 

Also the trolling potential of this one....

First 2 are just weird

 

Third one sure, already applied to deadeye rifle. Works there

 

Tho that really highlights how range/mobility are much much bigger problems than stealth

I had a friend who was mass reported by a commander & squad essentially because the commander disliked him, he got temporarily banned too. Automating decisions like this is a big no-no. 

 

Tbh I largely ignored the part about 50 thieves, as for a properly structured blob;

1) fighting 50 thieves ought to be a piece of cake

2) 50 thieves hiding in & flipping objectives objectives makes for a more efficient karma train

....so it's kind of a win win if you think about it. I wouldn't have a problem with evaded/missed attacks revealing the player though, provided it was done game wide and not just for thief. 

 

On Topic; Most of the stuff I would have said has already been said. More rewards, but not in a way that promotes AFK. Less automation of upgrades and scouting, to give players that don't want to be in the main zerg a useful job. You shouldn't be able to just karma train around and have your stuff upgrade and scout for you. 

Edited by Jugglemonkey.8741
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14 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Holy crap those still exists?!

I knew you could do it with daredevil staff in some locations, and presumably other weapon skills like jump shot & warrior sword 2, but I wasn't aware you could do it with warclaw too. It's really dumb that that's not been fixed yet. 

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1 hour ago, Phantom.8130 said:

Let's say each server holds their third, and they have their third fully upgraded, with waypoints in the keeps.  If they have to capture the towers to get to the keeps, then the defenders don't have to worry too much about the keeps, and instead just focus on the towers, which would also put more of the action in the middle of the map.

makes sense.

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14 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

2.- Broken physics that allow players to break into structures without siege, as example:

How to jump into every objective of Alpine Borderlands with Warclaw - YouTube

To be honest I find ridiculous that this is not fixed yet, you could just set an invisible wall over gates while you fix the broken Warclaw physics jumps.

 

dude yes, thank you for bringing this up. i sent ben p. a message over forums YEARS AGO with this link, my god dude the complete lack of kittens given. so so disheartening man, makes you wonder if they actually hate wvw.

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6 hours ago, Phantom.8130 said:

 

Here's a loose sketch I came up with, using the same number of objectives as the current borderland maps, that actually puts the areas in logical positions: https://ibb.co/8x6HZM6

 

Though, I do like the idea of adding an additional tower to each corner in the south, just as long as they adhere to the triangle layout of the towers and keep in the north on that picture.  Though, to be honest, we could probably do with LESS objectives on the map, so that defenders aren't so spread out, and can actually mount meaningful defenses.  The should already be in/around the areas ready to defend, rather than being spread far too thin, then trying to rush in to defend after the wall is down and hoping the first few in can contest the ring long enough for the rest to get there.

 

One other thing I'd like to touch on is that the game SHOULD be focused on PPT, but in order to get that PPT you should have to fight the enemy players at the objectives.  No PvDooring empty areas, no fights in the middle of nowhere.  "Fight at the nodes, not in between" is a staple of PvP in every other game, but for some reason that gets tossed out the window in WvW, and "open field fights" get glorified, because of a cascading number of issues.  Bad map design being one of them.  It should be a siege game.  Set up trebs in a tower, use open field catas/rams to speed the process along, treb another tower/keep, take down the wall, push in and fight the other players in there, capture the area.  While defenders set up defensive siege and use everyone else to fight the attackers under said siege, wipe them and counter attack.

 

Long, slow sieges result in epic battles.  Quick flips result in the areas being cheap, and people not caring about them.  

 

 

And this is where a lattice system would be useful, where it forces players to go through objectives in a certain order thereby constantly creating a tug of war "frontline". You could have maps just made of open fields, but to progress you still have to go through the objectives in order.

 

Now here's the problem, gw2 was developed differently compared to all the other rvr wvw type games out there.

The others were created with objective captures in mind not points per tick. For some of them with the bigger maps like eso and planetside they had to push players into more focused areas of combat, even to the point where they would close maps(planetside and warhammer) for 20 mins to continue to push players into combat in other areas. Warhammer you had to conquer multiple tiers of areas before you were allowed to take a shot at the enemy city to conquer.

 

Gw2 is more open, it was suppose to allow for multiple groups to go around and have multiple battles happening on the map, the opportunity for small fights and sneak captures behind the lines. Unfortunately we already know how this developed over the years where going big is just better. Now because wvw is more reliant on points you also have to allow some leeway in having things flip in a certain amount of time.

 

While 2 hour battles over a base sounds awesome (believe me it really was glorious in planetside), it's not something that would work well for wvw with it's scoring structure of playing for points. Simply because you could stall points gain to just one objective and no real way to go around it, and in the end you would start forcing players to go for more quick stealth or even off hours captures for points. Can you imagine a prime time where nothing can flip in ebg? A lot of other things would obviously need to change to compliment this style of play.

 

But I do think fighting over objectives for points has gotten stale and really no reason to do it in the overall game right now, and the points system really just wasn't suited for big open populations to manipulate, there's a reason why any sports that play for points have even teams. Players are mostly just ppting to help position their server for whatever tier they want to be in, not really winning for "winning it all".

 

I definitely would like to see objectives be more important though.

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Wow! There's alot of great insights and ideas here!! Exciting! Let's keep it constructive :) and our brains churnin'! 😁

 

One question remains, how will "Match-ups" + "Seasons" work going forward?
- A season is 8-weeks as previously mentioned in the world restructuring post, however, what is the duration of a 'match' during the season? Once a 'season' is locked, are matches 'instanced' and happens simultaneously in parallel? (similar to the current Edge of the Mists?)


- The post also mentions locking alliances/guild groups in a 'Season' of 8-weeks, would that create imbalances of skilled/new players on each side?

 

Possible solution:

- Use instanced 4-hour matches within a season of 8-weeks to shuffle group match-ups (GW1 AB and EOTM have this already if I remember correctly)

 

On 7/8/2021 at 10:15 PM, Josh Davis.7865 said:

What's everyone's favorite idea for cool match-up rewards?

 

As others have mentioned, "rewards" might need to be defined/unpacked a bit more (feel free to add/jump in):

 

*Are they...

1. In-game instant rewards: after a match resulting in immediate usage such as chests/tokens/badges/materials for a weapon skin in the armory?

 

2. Intrinsic rewards: the "experience" of holding a control point strategically with 4 other players/guildmates/alliance members against overwhelming enemy numbers before a 4-hour match resets? Again it would depend on how matches + 'seasons' are designed, as well as the duration of a match (1 hour? 4-hours? 1-week?), plus not all current maps/terrains are created equal..

 

3. Incremental Progression + prestige rewards:

Purple star/heart of valor beside the players' name? Indicators like the ones in PvP? 

- If matches are indeed 4-hour matches within 8-week long seasons, the current Commander system tag might need an overhaul in terms of progression + usability to give it more merit on the battlefield. It currently only acts as a tool (like a tonic) bought with gold for WvW & PvE Zergs to follow, and it currently is not linked to a players' progression/prestige

 

Scenarios & Questions:

- After holding a bridge during a 4-hour match against a larger group before a 'season (8-weeks)' resets, will a player feel recognized (rank upgraded to Lieutenant? With a silver star beside their name) Did his team win the season match due to this players' valiant behavior holding a choke/bridge/tower alone/with a buddy? Aside from #1 (reward chests) and #2 (fun experiences) above, were they recognized by the game? the guild? the alliance? 🏆

 

Example Commander 'tag' with progression:

- Did the commander win multiple matches during the season? How many times? Indicators? Recognition? Prestige?

 - Progression towards a Commander "rank"?

(private > 🥉captain > 🥈Lieutenant > 🥇Commander) or (Foot soldier > Legionnaire > Centurion > Commander) etc.

- Once lieutenant is attained as a 'rank', what extra abilities can they have on the battlefield when no commanders are present?

- Will the system auto-assign them as leads when no commanders are present in 4-hour match?

- What happens if 1/2 of the players on 1 side leaves a 4-hour match? (population imbalance)

- Would there be countermeasures by the system when this happens? Double rank rewards/prestige for the acting lieutenants against overwhelming enemy numbers?

- Handicaps when there's imbalance during a 4-hour match? (Examples: Siege Turtle NPC assist? Double rank progression..)

- Even though outnumbered, can the smaller group still win against a Zerg by spreading out & capturing control points? If they do win, will there be double the prestige/progression towards a "Commander Rank"🌟

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