Precursor Legendary Armor via Crafting Not Gated to Raid, WVW, or PVP for EoD

[JaconKin.5623]

In the most recent update that introduced Colin and Grouch back to team, it was brought up about the design philosophy of putting players first. GW 2 is one of the few MMOs that exist that I feel has the robust crafting system that allows you to almost craft all top end gear. I say almost since currently Jewelcrafters can't craft ascended and unfortunately, seems that the game has falling victim to what has befallen every other MMO that only certain legendary items can be obtained by playing one of the three game modes, PVP, WVW, or by Raiding. This is the same restrictions that every other MMO has in terms of "vertical" progression that the "best" gear can only be obtained this way. I know that Ascended and Legendary share the same stats so it's not about "more power", yet the convivence of Legendary Armor as well the big game addition of the Legendary Armory where does that leave causal players. 

 

I am currently playing GW 2 and returned to the game primarily due to the fact in other MMOs, you feel like you are being forced into content you don't necessarily want to play or participate in to get anywhere in the game, or for the "vertical" progression. Even though Legendary Armor, Trinkets and other Legendary pieces are horizontal due to no power upgrade, they are a vertical progression in terms of convivence in the ability to change stats at will for the versatility of being able to run more than one build with out having to worry about a second set of gear. Since they are already long term projects to begin with, crafting any legendary in the game, why the restriction behind only 3 forms of game content to get the armor? Since returning after a 7 year break from the game, the addition of being able to craft precursors and legendary weapons was added, a nice addition. So why not armor?  

[Infusion.7149]

Raiding is PvE. If you want to suggest an additional PvE set it would probably involve fractals , strikes, or DRMs. I don't see them ever putting in an open-world legendary armor given that the armor bonus stat over exotic is substantially smaller than that of weapons or trinkets.

Even if you can craft precursors (which is not just crafting there's a whole bunch of collection items) , you still need the legendary gifts which means that there is still PvE (and a bit of WvW) involved for legendary weapons currently at least for all gen 2.

If Jeweler 500 is put in , it is far more likely it would be crafting infused rings for example for people who do not do fractals. It is highly unlikely they will make jeweler an armor craft. See

If you mean that full legendary should be obtainable regardless of which of the three modes you intend to play, you'd have a point for WvW (needs 2 accessories and amulet) and PvE (it could use 1 more ring) and not so much for PvP since PvP uses the amulet system.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Ayrilana.1396]

GW2 is one game; not three or however many people try to split it into. 

[JaconKin.5623]

14 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Raiding is PvE. If you want to suggest an additional PvE set it would probably involve fractals , strikes, or DRMs. I don't see them ever putting in an open-world legendary armor given that the armor bonus stat over exotic is substantially smaller than that of weapons or trinkets.

Even if you can craft precursors (which is not just crafting there's a whole bunch of collection items) , you still need the legendary gifts which means that there is still PvE (and a bit of WvW) involved for legendary weapons currently at least for all gen 2.
 

If I want to RAID I would still be playing WoW or go back to possibly FF 14. I'm tired of these MMO thinking that the only way to get people to do their group content is by putting item only obtainable in that game mode. I don't feel like Raiding even it's PVE content, I don't feel like doing any of the "traditional" group content that is part of the MMO gaming trope.  

[Fenom.9457]

I agree with this.  If there was any one thing I could get added to the game, it would be a legendary armor set with skins that are EXCLUSIVE to the legendary tier (lookin at you, PvP and WvW armors) but can be earned in literally any place besides raids.  Seriously, any other part of the game is infinitely easier to do

[yoni.7015]

I am totally against that. Getting legendary armor only by playing open world and kill some meta bosses? No thanks. 

[hash.8462]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Raiding is PvE. If you want to suggest an additional PvE set it would probably involve fractals , strikes, or DRMs. I don't see them ever putting in an open-world legendary armor given that the armor bonus stat over exotic is substantially smaller than that of weapons or trinkets.

If you think Raid is PvE, I suppose that you are also thinking that PvP and WvW are the same game mode, right?

Gameplay of PvE and Raid are completely different, so that I know many Raid-only Players that are unable to keep themselves alive in the simplest PvE content (I even renamed one of them as "Kenny McCormick" 🙂), of course the opposite is also true; in fact, I would say there is the same difference that WvW and PvP have.

Obviously, it wouldn't make sense to add a new legendary armor without a collection and a complex acquisition of its materials as in the other game modes.

Edited July 12, 2021 by hash.8462

[Sobx.1758]

27 minutes ago, JaconKin.5623 said:

If I want to RAID I would still be playing WoW or go back to possibly FF 14. I'm tired of these MMO thinking that the only way to get people to do their group content is by putting item only obtainable in that game mode. I don't feel like Raiding even it's PVE content, I don't feel like doing any of the "traditional" group content that is part of the MMO gaming trope.  

Then don't. As you said, it's not adding any power to the player. It's easier to craft multiple ascended sets, so you are free to do just that. Even moreso when as a self-proclaimed "casual player", you're most probably not constantly swapping, experimenting and perfecting your builds.

 

1 minute ago, hash.8462 said:

If you think Raid is PvE, I suppose that you are also thinking that... [irrelevant, baseless strawman]

Raid is pve.

[Obtena.7952]

I don't think 'making GW2 about the players' necessarily means we will have a path to legendaries that excludes game elements we won't want to do. It's not Burger King ... we don't get it 'our way'. 

 

I really see little reason to change any of how legendaries are obtained ... they just aren't that big a deal to most people and have little impact on how most people play the game anyways. If I was Anet and wanted to make GW2 more about the players, I would GIVE players reasons to care more about getting legendaries.  

Edited July 12, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Incar.7358]

I was gutted when I came back to GW2 awhile ago and found out the only way towards legendary armour is through those 3 modes.

I'm not someone who makes friends easily and have little time or patience to play to other's schedules for Raiding or Fractals, or Strikes, or DRMs, nor do I even enjoy that kind of content. Am I capable of running a Raid build? Yes. I have the technology and game knowledge - I've been playing long enough. I simply won't, because it is inherently unfun to be so restricted. Can I pay to have runs done? Sure. Probably. But I shouldn't have to. I should be able to work off my own back towards my own goals or else they feel cheap and unearned.

WvW and PvP I've only ever done in short bursts for reward tracks. Playing against other players is also something I do not enjoy. WvW becomes tiring and repetitive after a short while - join a zerg and go - and PvP is usually the same 3 maps on repeat, facing the same 3 power builds. I could likely earn all the tickets or whatever I need for legendary armour out of them fairly quickly (some weeks or some such according to the wiki I believe), but I'd be so burned out on GW afterwards I'd likely end up taking a long break, so the armour wouldn't get used and the whole endeavour would have been fruitless.

An Open World legendary set would be a welcome sight to me. I enjoyed the collections for my legendary weapons, and even the acquisition of money and materials. I played parts of the Open World I likely never would have to achieve them, found places I didn't know existed, and am genuinely fond of the memories of doing that. The hardest part was suffering through the Gift of Battle tracks.

As for the technicality, and I don't think I'm the only one reading here; Raiding is PvE, but the difference between Open World and Raiding is WvW to PvP. They're worlds apart.

I can imagine there are a lot of players out there who relish all of these games modes, but I'm an introvert and a solo player, I find it personally difficult and often intolerable to group with others unless I have a history with them. I did once try to take charge of an old Guild, but that was short-lived. The anxiety is real.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Incar.7358

[Omega.6801]

44 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

I am totally against that. Getting legendary armor only by playing open world and kill some meta bosses? No thanks. 

I think they could make it grindy enough to make the work/playtime/cost/dedication/whatevermetricisfineforyou on par with other legendary armors. But I doubt the players asking for an open world PvE legendary armor would be ok with that amount of grind. 😉

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

This is something I have been asking for for some time now, granted mostly in the surveys. I have been an advocate for crafting to do more and be a PvE / "Casual" form or at least an alternate form of obtaining ALL gear in the game. It just makes sense for immersion and for the game! I hope  " including Living World™, World vs. World, Player vs. Player, endgame PvE, and more" Including Living World means it will get some "end game" level love too!

 

Not sure how alliances will fair with so many of us casuals in WvW solely for the legendary armor? It's the only reason I'm there! and I'd rather be in PvE

[b k.1648]

At this point, you might be helping keep WvW alive.

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

1 hour ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

GW2 is one game; not three or however many people try to split it into. 

This is true! There is no denying that! However, Arenanet has made the "game mode" distinction along with the original "play as you like" philosophy and here is were things start to break down. Core was perfect for this. But then levels of players, as they always and naturally will, started to split into those wanting and desiring more challenging content. There is nothing wrong with that either! You want challenging then go do the raids, PvP or WvW or Fractals.

 

There is also no real player reason for separating the "rewards" they way they have. That is evident. If you are going to make it so different "game modes"  get to earn these items. It's only going to be natural for the "other game modes" to want to get them from that method of gaining those rewards, also because of the "play the way you like". Now IF Guild Wars 2 is leaving those concepts behind then the players should be made aware that now legendary items are ONLY end game & ALL game mode only items. They should each also require every "mode" of the game to get. But they don't. After all we are getting a legendary item LITERALLY for just playing the living world as a bonus event and reward.

 

But yet your right!!! Make every one use crafting station to craft Legendary items as it should be! After all the leets just use the TP to get what I craft and sell to make their legendary's anyway! How is THAT a game mode? You can even just strait up buy one off the trade post! That's not playing ANY mode!

 

"The most important thing in any game should be the player" So lets not forget what other players want and have been asking for for years, for me longer than alliances! But WvW needs some love right now and I'm okay with that! I just hope they let us craft legendary armor, back and trinkets by crafting  so I and others like me don't have to GRIND a mode they don't like. That's all that's being asked Much like WvW asking to HAVE legendary armor! If we are going to have to GRIND for mats for an item at the VERY LEAST let us GRIND in our method of play!!! All rewards in all modes should be the thing OR ALL Rewards from one vendor from ANY mode!

 

Manifesto

[Sobx.1758]

16 hours ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

This is true! There is no denying that! However, Arenanet has made the "game mode" distinction along with the original "play as you like" philosophy and here is were things start to break down. Core was perfect for this. But then levels of players, as they always and naturally will, started to split into those wanting and desiring more challenging content. There is nothing wrong with that either! You want challenging then go do the raids, PvP or WvW or Fractals.

 

There is also no real player reason for separating the "rewards" they way they have. That is evident. If you are going to make it so different "game modes"  get to earn these items. It's only going to be natural for the "other game modes" to want to get them from that method of gaining those rewards, also because of the "play the way you like". Now IF Guild Wars 2 is leaving those concepts behind then the players should be made aware that now legendary items are ONLY end game & ALL game mode only items. They should each also require every "mode" of the game to get. But they don't. After all we are getting a legendary item LITERALLY for just playing the living world as a bonus event and reward.

 

But yet your right!!! Make every one use crafting station to craft Legendary items as it should be! After all the leets just use the TP to get what I craft and sell to make their legendary's anyway! How is THAT a game mode? You can even just strait up buy one off the trade post! That's not playing ANY mode!

 

"The most important thing in any game should be the player" So lets not forget what other players want and have been asking for for years, for me longer than alliances! But WvW needs some love right now and I'm okay with that! I just hope they let us craft legendary armor, back and trinkets by crafting  so I and others like me don't have to GRIND a mode they don't like. That's all that's being asked Much like WvW asking to HAVE legendary armor! If we are going to have to GRIND for mats for an item at the VERY LEAST let us GRIND in our method of play!!! All rewards in all modes should be the thing OR ALL Rewards from one vendor from ANY mode!

 

Manifesto

There is also no reason to pretend everyone should get legendary for logging into the game and chopping the trees. It gives no power -in fact it's pretty safe to say that the more casual someone is, the less it's meaningful for them to get legendary gear, because they simply won't utilize it anyways. You can play how you want and legendary items have nothing to do with it. What you came up with here is a misguided argument for the sake of somehow blaming guilt tripping the devs that "they promised something and didn't do it!" -but they didn't break any promise there. You can craft as many ascended gear as you want and lose absolutely no power, while playing any content in any way you want.

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758
rewording what I said

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

39 minutes ago, Ben K.6238 said:

At this point, you might be helping keep WvW alive.

LOLZ, IRK!? It feels that way some times. But as much as I actually like the setup of charging castles and all it really sucks when my playtime is spent GRINDING for 14 SCT each day by> kill a guard> get killed by player> WP and warclaw back> rinse and repeat. yeah I have a good build not it's not awesome, well it was at one point, but it doesn't come down to the build. We share internet here so we will NEVER be good in PvP or WvW the lagony just frags it!

 

At the rate we get SCT I will be dead before I ever complete my legendary armor! I'm sorry I just don't think game rewards should take years of play to get, a week, a month sure. Multiple moths? yeah NO! That's more like a prison sentence than playing a game for entertainment.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

GW2 is one game; not three or however many people try to split it into. 

Notice, how it's exactly the content-specific rewards, and different requirements that do that splitting. Players just acknowledge what devs themselves already did.

 

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Raid is pve.

In the same way as Albania or Nigeria are the World.

 

Raid is not PvE. It's merely a very, very small part of it. one that is very much not representative of the whole.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

In the same way as Albania or Nigeria are the World.

 

Raid is not PvE. It's merely a very, very small part of it. one that is very much not representative of the whole.

It very clearly is, if you think that raid isn't pve, then you have no idea what you're talking about, that's about it 🙄 

 

But since you want to go with comparisons:

Raids aren't pve the same way cars aren't vehicles.

 

It's even more hilarious since you somehow seem to be ok with people claiming you can't obtain legendary armor in pve because it's not from OW 🙃  (because when they say "PVE", they clearly just mean "OW" -no objection there, eh?)

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Doomfrost.5728]

Legendary Armor will have to be tied to something. It's supposed to denote an achievement, something you've worked towards. Crafting is not an achievement, it's simply a component needed in the process of owning a set. Raid+Craft, WvW+Craft, PvP+Craft. 

 

If you want another legendary set, it has to be tied to something other than just crafting.

[Astralporing.1957]

39 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But since you want to go with comparisons:

Raids aren't pve the same way cars aren't vehicles.

Not cars. Cars are popular and typical vehicles. That is the difference.

 

That's the problem. You are in a room of mostly car users, and try to persuade them that cars and segways are the same, because both are vehicles. And that it's the segway that should represent wheeled vehicles, and not a car. Because cars are not cool enough, and driving them is too easy and mainstream to matter.

 

And then you're suprised that everyone's looking at you weirdly.

 

Quote

It's even more hilarious since you somehow seem to be ok with people claiming you can't obtain legendary armor in pve because it's not from OW 🙃  (because when they say "PVE", they clearly just mean "OW" -no objection there, eh?)

 

Like i said, some parts of PvE are more representative of the whole than others.

 

Similarily, i would never try to claim that "but PvE already have their armor" if that only armor set was purely JP based. Or purely mount race based. Those things are just too small a subset of the whole PvE to be considered representative enough of it.

 

I might consider a set based on, say DRM, because it's generally open to anyone. I might even consider a dungeon one - or even fractal one, it it didn't require more than fractal backpack does (so, no CMs). Raids however are just way too narrow to serve that purpose.

 

Like i said - raids are PvE in about the same way in which Albanian Prime Minister is a PM of Europe. Or even the whole world.

 

Albania is certainly a country in Europe - but it is not the Europe. It's also a part of the world - but it is not the world.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not cars. Cars are popular and typical vehicles. That is the difference.

 

That's the problem. You are in a room of mostly car users, and try to persuade them that cars and segways are the same, because both are vehicles. And that it's the segway that should represent wheeled vehicles, and not a car. Because cars are not cool enough, and driving them is too easy and mainstream to matter.

 

And then you're suprised that everyone's looking at you weirdly.

"Everyone's looking at me weirdly"? lmao, what are you even talking about.

The only problem here is that people quote "play how you want" and pretend they can't "because legendary gear isn't easly obtainable in open world". So maybe for the sake of making sense, lay off silly comparisons and finally start responding to what was written about this issue.

 

Quote

Like i said, some parts of PvE are more representative of the whole than others.

Pve is pve, nothing is "more representative" and nothing about that was mentioned here, no need to move the goalposts now.

 

Quote

Similarily, i would never try to claim that "but PvE already have their armor" if that only armor set was purely JP based. Or purely mount race based. Those things are just too small a subset of the whole PvE to be considered representative enough of it.

Cool, this has still no relevance here, so feel free to start commenting on the actual topic we're talking about instead of setting strawman after strawman.

 

Quote

I might consider a set based on, say DRM, because it's generally open to anyone. I might even consider a dungeon one - or even fractal one, it it didn't require more than fractal backpack does (so, no CMs). Raids however are just way too narrow to serve that purpose.

As open as raids. And it's still just one, limited part of pve, but somehow you might consider it counting as pve. Hilarious how you can't see the double standards you're setting for yourself in the very same post.

 

Quote

Like i said - raids are PvE in about the same way in which Albanian Prime Minister is a PM of Europe. Or even the whole world.

No, raids are pve. And that's a fact whether you like it or not.

It's not "a whole pve" (and nobody ever said it is), but neither is OW,  jps, strikes or mount races. Not to mention all of these singular modes in separation are pve literally "In the same way as Albania or Nigeria are the World." (for that PM one -great you're trying so hard with silly comparison, but you just make less and less sense with every next one you forcefully push out of yourself, so even reusing it here would feel too awful to do). But wait, "might consider drms" because yes, apparently 🙃

 

Quote

Albania is certainly a country in Europe - but it is not the Europe. It's also a part of the world - but it is not the world.

Nobody ever said "raids are entirety of pve", despite you repeatedly trying to push this metaphor so hard as if it's some ingenious take. Your comparison is as irrelevant as it was.

And according to your own logic you keep presenting here, acquisition of legendary armors shouldn't be moved out of raids, but simply should ADD the rest of the available pve content to truly make it "available for pve". No, not "add alternatives", add them all at once as the requirements for the same set. I bet that would make everyone happy, good job. But hey, at least now World would finally mean the whole World just like you wanted it to be 🙃

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The Devs/ArenaNet consider there to be 3 distinct modes in Guild Wars 2:

PvE, PvP and WvW. 

Each has a method to acquire Legendary Armor. 

 

Any separations in any one of the three modes is player-constructed. 

 

Maybe, some day, there will be additional ways to acquire Legendary Armor.

I would not hold my breath on it being any time soon, though. 

[Asum.4960]

8 hours ago, Incar.7358 said:

An Open World legendary set would be a welcome sight to me. 

Envoy Armor and Coalescence are just as much, if not more so, Open World rewards than they are Raid rewards. 

Especially for Coalescence, the actual Raid portion of the collection is miniscule in effort compared to the massive and (imo) boring press W+1 Open World grind attached to it with farming Hearts over, and over, and over.. for things like Funerary Incense, Map completions for all OW Maps, etc. 

 

They are PvE rewards, and as such require a variety of PvE - some people dislike the challenging Raid part of it, others the grindy OW part. They are just as much, if not more so, open wold grind "gated" as they are Raid "gated".

Yet they are optional high effort endgame rewards and no one is forced to go for them - if one does, one has to grit through the parts one doesn't enjoy. 

I in turn certainly had to heavily force myself through mindless Meta Event and Heart repetitions and would have gladly taken actual Raid/Fractal legendary Armor/Trinkets, purely earned through engaging gameplay, too - but per design Anet wants it's players to engage with a breadth of content for those kinds of rewards (at least concerning PvE), and I don't see that design goal changing.

 

If it ever does, please no more "forced" OW grinds!

 

E:

I actually quit on and never completed Coalescence after having already done all the Raid components, since for my mental health's sake I just couldn't force myself through repeating content that challenged or engaged me in absolutely no way other than patience to that extend - in which case I have to be fine with not getting that particular reward for it.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Asum.4960

[hash.8462]

35 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

The Devs/ArenaNet consider there to be 3 distinct modes in Guild Wars 2:

PvE, PvP and WvW. 

Each has a method to acquire Legendary Armor. 

 

Any separations in any one of the three modes is player-constructed. 

 

Maybe, some day, there will be additional ways to acquire Legendary Armor.

I would not hold my breath on it being any time soon, though. 

I agree on the fact that devs are considering only 3 modes...

But this is because raids weren't there at the beginning of the game, indeed at the launch devs did not even plan to create this type of content, players coming from other games like WoW insisted on it so they added it to the existing PvE.

 

In stricktly terms, WvW is also PvP so there should be no difference with them, but there is.

Anyway, many PvE player I know are making their legendary armor in WvW, mainly because the raid player community sucks not because of the content, but also because, strangely enough, PvE gameplay is more similar to the WvW one than the Raid one.

[Fuchslein.8639]

But if you don't play end-content like raids or fraks and you don't play WVW or PVP why do you need Legy Armor at all?

I still think that Legy Amor only really makes sense for WVW and for hardcore players in raids, who master different classes and builds perfectly.

 

Legy Amor is nothing more than a Qol-update which most people want but would probably never use if they had it. And most raiders I know eventransmute the stuff because the majority of the parts (i know, matter of taste) is ugly.

 

And by the way, as an introvert who always gets very nervous in modes like PVP, Wvw and also Raids because of people and the fear to fail, a tip. The group counts, And there is more than one group out there.
I love challenging content and if you want something you sometimes have to kick yourself in the kitten. I had many groups until I found the one that actually appealed to me~ although I was skeptical at the beginning and even rejected the leader because he seemed arrogant.

And if you don't have time, do you really think you have the time to earn a "PVE" armor? Do you think Anet will somehow make it easier for you?

When people here in the Forum already complain about jp's they have to make where they can be ported by a mesmer, which is apparently already too much work for some people  ....

 

Uff and when I read how some make a whole community bad ... yup, wonder who really sucks here.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Fuchslein.8639