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Why does Ranger get no Love!?


Eleghost.2098

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2 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Again with this misinformation. 

 

The buff to shared auras and the introduction of FB has increased twice fold the amount of reflections. Buffs as reduced CD  to guardian staff and shield also brought more block/reflections.

 

I'm not sure it actually got 'more' rather than more 'versatile'. Meaning, Guardian already had plenty of projectile hate. FB having some on Tome just means that Guardians drop Wall of Reflection. Plus, Staff doesn't have any projectile hate at all. Not sure, what you mean by that. If I see any offenders, it's Winds of Disenchantments on Warrior and maybe some Magnetic Aura on Elementalist. All other new reflects most likely just substituted older ones.

 

Not saying that projectile hate isn't and issue. But it always has been in WvW zergs. And it's not a Ranger exclusive issue. You can't go pew pew on any classes in large scale. Ranger and Warrior actually got it easier since they at least got some 'Unblockable'.

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14 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

Ranger and Warrior actually got it easier since they at least got some 'Unblockable'.

 

That's a funny way of putting it.

 

Ranger has one unblockable, not some. A 40 seconds cooldown signet that is not worth taking. As opposed to having a billion ground-targeted aoe skills like necro, rev, core guard/dragonhunter have that are not affected by projectile reflects or blocks. It doesn't matter that those classes also have a few projectiles when they got access to stuff like that.

 

Not that any of it matters, longbow was never a great zerg weapon. Soulbeast is making the best out of it, and it is useable. But ranger needs an elite spec with a good weapon and mechanic, and useful utility or just straight up good aoe damage to be carve out a better zerg spot for itself. People that keep banging on about there being too many reflects need to move on with it.

Edited by Lazze.9870
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1 minute ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Ranger has one unblockable, not some. A 40 seconds cooldown signet that is not worth taking.

It's still more than others have and it is several stacks. 😉

 

1 minute ago, Lazze.9870 said:

As opposed to having a billion ground-targeted aoe skills like necro, rev, core guard/dragonhunter have that are not affected by projectile reflects or blocks. It doesn't matter that those classes also have a few projectiles when they got access to stuff like that.

Now you're mixing stuff.

 

First, while Necro Staff and Revenant Hammer are indeed less projectile reliant than Ranger LB, that's about it when looking at weapons. And many non-projectile ranged weapons don't cut it due to other reasons.

 

Second, if it were about area effects in general, that's a totally different topic and not related to LB. Plus, Ranger actually got quite a few area skills. Traps and Glyphs. Sure, they're not range. That's the real issue, I guess? 🙃

 

1 minute ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Not that any of it matters, longbow was never a great zerg weapon.

 

That's what I said. And it is true for any projectile based attack on any class.

 

I often times feel that the biggest issue players have with Ranger in WvW, is the desire for a large scale high DPS Archer with ranged area effects to accompany that. However, this desire not being fulfilled has nothing to do with how well a Ranger can do in large scale fights. They can do well and it most certainly got much better since launch.

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2 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

It's still more than others have and it is several stacks. 😉

 

Yeah, and the rainbow is colorful...

 

2 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

Now you're mixing stuff.

 

I'm talking about what matters. Which is this:

 

2 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

And it is true for any projectile based attack on any class.

 

 

And every single one of those got alternative skills to use or different roles to perform 🙃

 

2 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

First, while Necro Staff and Revenant Hammer are indeed less projectile reliant than Ranger LB, that's about it when looking at weapons. And many non-projectile ranged weapons don't cut it due to other reasons.

 

Second, if it were about area effects in general, that's a totally different topic and not related to LB. Plus, Ranger actually got quite a few area skills. Traps and Glyphs. Sure, they're not range. That's the real issue, I guess? 🙃

 

This is barely worth touching upon. Necros don't even use staff in optimal zerg builds. Guardian use staff and scepter/x on their damage core/DH builds. Staff weaver is a thing. Traps and Glyphs are useless in the context of aoe damage, with the exception of Frost Trap (which still needs a damage buff in competetive modes when compared to guardian traps).

 

Lack of ranged, non-projectile aoe is one issue. It's the combination of lackluster zerg weapon options and little in terms of providing something else unique or just anything wanted really (other than immob spam) that is the real issue. Which is why I'm saying ranger needs an elite spec that offers both a good weapon (to pair with GS, most likely) a mechanic that isn't deadweight like the pet, and either useful utilities (boon removal, etc) or straight up well-like damage skills from an elite spec. No one would be talking about LB then. LB is talked about because it is currently one of the best options, double axes have the same issue.

Edited by Lazze.9870
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3 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

I'm not sure it actually got 'more' rather than more 'versatile'. Meaning, Guardian already had plenty of projectile hate. FB having some on Tome just means that Guardians drop Wall of Reflection. Plus, Staff doesn't have any projectile hate at all. Not sure, what you mean by that. If I see any offenders, it's Winds of Disenchantments on Warrior and maybe some Magnetic Aura on Elementalist. All other new reflects most likely just substituted older ones.

 

Not saying that projectile hate isn't and issue. But it always has been in WvW zergs. And it's not a Ranger exclusive issue. You can't go pew pew on any classes in large scale. Ranger and Warrior actually got it easier since they at least got some 'Unblockable'.

Well actually got more and more versatile.

PoF brought a lot of AoE projectile hate where before you were mostly seeing it with guardian staff. 

Now any elementalist or FB can bring perma party projectile reflection which is clearly a creep over what was being used before. 
 

the massive nerf to unblockable with the stack thing was the last nail. Ranger got further nerfs removing the few unblockable it has access to.

 

well you see the “buff” they gave ranger on the warhorn a 240 range weakness in a weapon with 750 range… I am still amazed how that 240 was being even considered. 
 

somebody at anet clearly hate rangers and should not be involved with the decisions about the profession 
Let’s see what joke of a mess are they bringing with this expansion. 

Edited by anduriell.6280
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2 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

And every single one of those got alternative skills to use or different roles to perform 🙃

Which is not true when it comes to range for many professions. Seeing Ranger as a sole victim here is just not how it actually is ingame. Many classes aren't meta in WvW. And many classes don't have ranged builds that are enjoyable in large scale WvW due to either projectile hate or not properly scaling mechanics. And Ranger happens to be part of that group.

 

Not saying the desire to get something like that isn't valid. But the sentiment why Ranger supposedly is worse off than others or why it deserved more are way off most of the time.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

Which is not true when it comes to range for many professions. Seeing Ranger as a sole victim here is just not how it actually is ingame. Many classes aren't meta in WvW. And many classes don't have ranged builds that are enjoyable in large scale WvW due to either projectile hate or not properly scaling mechanics. And Ranger happens to be part of that group.

 

Not saying the desire to get something like that isn't valid. But the sentiment why Ranger supposedly is worse off than others or why it deserved more are way off most of the time.

 

 

Well you are 90% right there. Most classes do have at least one build which actually have some use in wvw. 
That doesn’t happen with ranger and thief.
And no the meme immob build is not a thing it doesn’t matter how much the usuals want to push that idea. Same goes for the staff DD build for “zergs”.

The rest of the professions got at least one legitimate build to play with. Even engineer got one build for squads/groups. 

 

in the case of ranger (and thief) is not that players are asking for “a ranged Zerg build” they are asking for a “build” period. At the end it won’t matter if it’s ranger or melee, the important thing is to be wanted in squads. 

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On 8/13/2021 at 5:17 PM, Xaylin.1860 said:

Which is not true when it comes to range for many professions. Seeing Ranger as a sole victim here is just not how it actually is ingame. Many classes aren't meta in WvW. And many classes don't have ranged builds that are enjoyable in large scale WvW due to either projectile hate or not properly scaling mechanics. And Ranger happens to be part of that group.

 

Not saying the desire to get something like that isn't valid. But the sentiment why Ranger supposedly is worse off than others or why it deserved more are way off most of the time.

 

Necro, rev, core guard/DH and ele got ranged, non-projectile AoE damage.

 

Warrior has a different role with their bubble, boon removal, CC and complementary support. Engie has the superior support spec with scrapper. Mesmer has great utility, and will get more ranged damage options with virtuoso. Support tempest is decent enough to give eles a second option.

 

That leaves ranger and thief as the only classes that don't either do good aoe ranged damage or otherwise have other meta options to leviate that. 

 

It's pretty clear to me that you have no idea what you're talking about when claiming that "many classes aren't meta in wvw". There are two classes that aren't meta. The rest cover everything from being essential (FB, scrapper, necro, rev) to at the very least having good enough utility to warrant 2-3 of them in a squad (mesmer).

 

Again, LB wouldn't be discussed if ranger had a different role (other than immob builds).

Edited by Lazze.9870
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21 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Well you are 90% right there

 

In a vacuum, because he is hung up with the part about ranged damage. And he clearly doesn't know what the meta is, claiming many classes don't have a role when there in fact only are two that don't.

 

I made it pretty clear from the get-go that LB wouldn't even be discussed if ranger had any other build considered meta for zerging.  The immob builds are good, but they become less effective the larger numbers you fight.

Edited by Lazze.9870
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/14/2021 at 4:48 PM, enkeny.6937 said:

For 1 reason: we are not bad enough.
We are not the top dps, but we are good, both in condition and strike damage. (expect for druid, but no one cares...)
If there is a ranger in the dps group, it is usually in the middle, so it is pretty balanced. (not the top, not the bottom) 
Ranger has spirits (Unique), druid has 10 target long duration might. giving a common boon like might is not op, spirits/spotter can be brought by any ranger (if must, not optimal). So druid is pretty close to fall out of raids. (and for one perspective, it is good. Not from a druid player's but for the purpose of lfg like: need 2 support, 1 control, 4 dps...)

pets: they are bad. But for a druid they are mobil boon/cc platforms. Soulbeast merg with them, so they are some extra skill/stat. So they are not sensable.

sPvP/WvW: hardly play, so don't know how it is.

So after nerfing the op classes, buffing never used skilled, why would they do anything with things that are working good enough. Not making us OP doesn't mean we aren't loved. 🙂 It means we aren't the favourite.  😛

   

PvP and WvW rangers can be really good if you know what you are doing, so they are not bad at all.

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On 8/31/2021 at 5:38 AM, eyelogix.1654 said:

PvP and WvW rangers can be really good if you know what you are doing, so they are not bad at all.

 

The WvW roaming scene is borderline dead and not the major focus of what WvW is about. Relatively to professions that do have a solid meta role in WvW groups, ranger isn't really good at all. It has some niches and a GvG build which is decent, but nothing meta defining.

 

In PvP it has a few B tier builds, some close to A, which is good for variety, but nothing S tier. Good enough, but Druid need some love along with a few changes to core in Nature Magic to allow its support kit to at the very least be worthwhile. If Druid was more than Druidic Clarity, Celestial Shadow and Ancient Seeds, I'd say ranger in general would be in a pretty good place even without any clear S tier builds.

Edited by Lazze.9870
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  • 6 months later...
2 hours ago, medivh.4725 said:

How about a 3rd pet for ranger to call upon. To keep things going.

I wouldn't mind having 2 pets active at the same time even, could be fun and make us a real "Tamer" 

Even if its via an elite or so that the second pet is summoned. 

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