easy way to make warrior viable in pvp

[RedAvenged.5217]

51 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

lol the recent mAT is a joke, there's barely any team who knows how to play, in fact there's barely any team to play at all, 5 rounds of mAT in EU? even something as casual as daily AT had more rounds in work hour a few months back and the few who knows how to play, more then half of them are teamed and made comp in the last second and most likely just playing w/e they want.

with barely anyone wanting to play the game, i can't tell how it can be taken as the golden standard or be taken seriously at all.

Daily ats don’t go as high as 5 rounds. There were several good teams, just not as many total as Na, it’s also worth noting a lot of Eu teams play on Na while the opposite isn’t true

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

31 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Doesn’t mean warrior isn’t viable at all.

 

Consider you said:

 

Quote

if you take a warrior to a duel server you will find it is one of the best duelist in gw2 atm and therefore is a perfectly viable class

 

If warrior is viable based soley on its ability to perform in 1v1 on duel servers, then you and I have a serious disconnect in what we think "viable" means. 

 

I will ask again:

 

Quote

I'm being doomsday because warrior is being assumed to be viable because occasionally it is good in a duel server instead of where matches actually matter. Why is this the metric being used to determine viability? 

 

Why is warrior the only class that is being evaluated as being good based on its performance 1v1, when:

1. No game mode exists that rewards 1v1 ?
2. It loses hard to a selection of classes 1v1?

Also.

if this is true:

 

Quote

If you wanna ask which class is better overall I’d say ranger by a lot.

 

This is false:

 

Quote

if it wasn’t for giga bunkers it would be great.

 

 

There's only one giga bunker right now, correct? Issues with warrior persisted before scourge rose to prominence. These issues are separate, and nerfing scourge will not make warriors matchups against the other classes, including ranger, any better. 

 

If buffs to core would be too much, then stick to buffing zerker. I do not believe both of those claims at once, though.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[ZDragon.3046]

50 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I don’t know why you seem to think I lack basic skills in playing the game. I have been at the plat3+ level since season 5 and ranger is probably one of my best classes.

 

who cares if ranger longbow is better than warriors. If I wanna play sic em soulbeast against any actually skilled player they can you know just kite you, the end result would be the warrior never dying in the 1v1 and owning the node half the time, which is equal to a loss as far as conquest goes- which is why sic em soulbeast isn’t great in tournaments becuz pretty much anyone can do this to them.

Because the things you are saying dont make sense for someone who is plat 3+ to say.

 

you think rangers ranged options are not better than warriors? why do you even question this? being plat 3+ you straight up know this to be fact regardless if ranger is used or not. 

 

The warrior not dying in 1v1 depends on them knowing if you are going to burst them or not if you catch them off guard they usually just die because the burst goes on for an exceptionally long time and this is even further if there is no way to LoS the ranger.

 

To be blunt i dont care specificly about sic em soul beast you brought up the specific build sic em soul beast i was talking about ranger skills in general the only time i ever called out soulbeast was with the one case example of a skill thats used on almost all soul best builds that use a smoke scale and not all of them are sic em builds.

[RedAvenged.5217]

29 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

Because the things you are saying dont make sense for someone who is plat 3+ to say.

 

you think rangers ranged options are not better than warriors? why do you even question this? being plat 3+ you straight up know this to be fact regardless if ranger is used or not. 

 

The warrior not dying in 1v1 depends on them knowing if you are going to burst them or not if you catch them off guard they usually just die because the burst goes on for an exceptionally long time and this is even further if there is no way to LoS the ranger.

 

To be blunt i dont care specificly about sic em soul beast you brought up the specific build sic em soul beast i was talking about ranger skills in general the only time i ever called out soulbeast was with the one case example of a skill thats used on almost all soul best builds that use a smoke scale and not all of them are sic em builds.

I never said anything you are claiming I did lol.

 

this convo is hilarious 

[RedAvenged.5217]

36 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Consider you said:

 

 

If warrior is viable based soley on its ability to perform in 1v1 on duel servers, then you and I have a serious disconnect in what we think "viable" means. 

 

I will ask again:

 

 

Why is warrior the only class that is being evaluated as being good based on its performance 1v1, when:

1. No game mode exists that rewards 1v1 ?
2. It loses hard to a selection of classes 1v1?

Also.

if this is true:

 

 

This is false:

 

 

 

There's only one giga bunker right now, correct? Issues with warrior persisted before scourge rose to prominence. These issues are separate, and nerfing scourge will not make warriors matchups against the other classes, including ranger, any better. 

 

If buffs to core would be too much, then stick to buffing zerker. I do not believe both of those claims at once, though.

 

 

Winning 1v1s is metric in how good the class is. Idk what world u live in where that’s not true.

 

gigabunkers rn include 2 types of scourge, 2 types of core necro, prot holo bunker guard etc.

 

again idk what you are talking about

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Winning 1v1s is metric in how good the class is. Idk what world u live in where that’s not true.

 

Question. How good is deadeye to you? Just curious. 

 

Quote

gigabunkers rn include 2 types of scourge, 2 types of core necro, prot holo bunker guard etc.

 

We probably agree on balancing direction more closely than I assumed, then. That being said, it would be simpler, quicker, and better for build diversity and the volatility of the meta to just buff core/zerker instead of nerfing every single one of those. 

And condi trapper.

And thief. 

 

Why can't the solution to bunker builds be damage builds for warrior? That kills two birds with one stone and is less prone to being gummed up by any minor changes like... say, an Xpack dropping later. If they overbuff warrior, they have one class to fix, and if they get it right they fix everything else. As opposed to trying to fix several other specs, possibly getting two of them right, and leaving everyone else to languish.

 

Quote

idk what you are talking about

 

Centuries of playing prominently berserker have driven me insane. It is natural that sometimes I will say kitten that makes no sense. I am still, however, sentient enough to realize that when people get hit hard enough they think the thing that hit them is fair (even when it isn't/their class is the favored one in the matchup), and want to make sure that does not happen where I can. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[RedAvenged.5217]

11 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Question. How good is deadeye to you? Just curious. 

 

 

Thief was probably one of my best classes, but I currently don’t enjoy it in this meta, so I’m probably not the best one to ask.

 

deadeye however has always existed in a weird form of the thief meta, at times it has been good at 1v1ing classes like s/d thief, but s/d thief would generally win in a plus 1. Or in the case of condi s/d it would lose the 1v1 but win in a plus 1.

 

even now it’s weird because it can meme a few classes 1v1, but it’ll often be farmed in a 1v1 or a plus 1 from d/p thief. It could however also meme a dp thief with quickness and rifle 2s very well, but I’ve only seen this from god teir deadeyes like hitzer.

 

anyways I’d say it depends overall for inter class match ups, but you can totally get away with some stealth spam shadow arts builds that can 1v1 well enough for ranked- like shadow arts deadeye or the condi p/p build

[ZDragon.3046]

2 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I never said anything you are claiming I did lol.

 

this convo is hilarious 

So you are trolling.. got it k this conversation is over. Good day.

[Unknown.6851]

Guys, please. We all know warrior sucks in PvP why is this even a conversation? Let’s just hope warrior can be returned to a sliver of its former glory - but nothing will happen until they update 40% of the skills to do something useful that are currently wasted space.
 

Instead of leaving entire trait lines riddled with 300 second cds and skills with unreasonable 75 second cool downs. When a 7% of  characters toughness converts to power and this is the best trait available you know there is something wrong.. 

 

let’s stop messing around and help anet to fix a broken class so we can see some variety in the meta. Are you not sick of burn weavers, scourges and holo smiths yet? Hell, even mirage and druids get more play than warrior as an entire class. Lets be real here!

 

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by noobfest.2180

[CutesySylveon.8290]

11 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I know what you said, the only possible explanation for what your saying - it being weak against thief and Mesmer would in a plus 1 because warrior beats them both fairly well in a 1v1.

 

anyways there have been many 1v1 tournaments and testing of match ups at this point and warrior is one of the best- it doesn’t struggle with a 1v1 against thief unless the thief is playing the p/p condi build

I stopped taking you seriously when I read that you think warrior doesn't struggle vs thief. D/p can very easily perma blind warrior through just about every defensive tool it has because blind fields ignore everything from blocks to evades. 

 

Seriously, do Bulls Charge into any blind field and you'll be blinded despite being in evade frames. A thief can literally sit in smoke fields and spin with F2 as a mini Dagger Storm. P/P thief is meme tier counter to warrior on top of being a braindead build in itself. 

[RedAvenged.5217]

20 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

I stopped taking you seriously when I read that you think warrior doesn't struggle vs thief. D/p can very easily perma blind warrior through just about every defensive tool it has because blind fields ignore everything from blocks to evades. 

 

Seriously, do Bulls Charge into any blind field and you'll be blinded despite being in evade frames. A thief can literally sit in smoke fields and spin with F2 as a mini Dagger Storm. P/P thief is meme tier counter to warrior on top of being a braindead build in itself. 

Right dp thief the 1v1 god

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Right dp thief the 1v1 god

I mean is it not? Dagger/Pistol Deadly arts or Shadow arts (OK revealed is more of a counter for this variant) Daredevil has been consistently the number 1 go to for thieves for years, has it not? Unblockables blinds, quick stealth access, the highest instant mobility. High evasion as well. 

 

Its hard to think of a single spec and build that can provide as much cover, as much mobility, as much dmg (backstab) and as much quick access to counter condis (weakness, blind) outside of thief. Yes, Mesmers of any spec can probably be as dangerous, but they lack mobility. 

 

Unless if your statement wasn't ironic, in which case just ignore my comment. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[CutesySylveon.8290]

6 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Right dp thief the 1v1 god

You don't need to be a 1v1 God to counter warrior here, stop being disingenuous. D/p thief has pretty much every tool imaginable to counter warrior baring the gimmicky nonsense that nobody is going to bring to a serious match.

A ton of blinds? Check. Shadowshot is unblockable too so you can do it against a blocking warrior for free a 5 second blind.

Tons of mobility? Check.

High evasion uptime? Check.

Weakness? Check.

Interrupts? Check, and Swipe is unblockable.

Stealth? Check.

Immob clears? Check. 

 

If you lose as a Thief in this matchup, it's because you messed up to such a ridiculous degree that it's embarrassing. 

[RedAvenged.5217]

8 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I mean is it not? Dagger/Pistol Deadly arts or Shadow arts (OK revealed is more of a counter for this variant) Daredevil has been consistently the number 1 go to for thieves for years, has it not? Unblockables blinds, quick stealth access, the highest instant mobility. High evasion as well. 

 

Its hard to think of a single spec and build that can provide as much cover, as much mobility, as much dmg (backstab) and as much quick access to counter condis (weakness, blind) outside of thief. Yes, Mesmers of any spec can probably be as dangerous, but they lack mobility. 

 

Unless if your statement wasn't ironic, in which case just ignore my comment. 

Dp thief has not been the go to for years.

 

you lack the basic knowledge of what meta is and how it is played.

 

you guys are making the same comments a bronze player would make literally- stop wasting my time

[RedAvenged.5217]

4 hours ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

You don't need to be a 1v1 God to counter warrior here, stop being disingenuous. D/p thief has pretty much every tool imaginable to counter warrior baring the gimmicky nonsense that nobody is going to bring to a serious match.

A ton of blinds? Check. Shadowshot is unblockable too so you can do it against a blocking warrior for free a 5 second blind.

Tons of mobility? Check.

High evasion uptime? Check.

Weakness? Check.

Interrupts? Check, and Swipe is unblockable.

Stealth? Check.

Immob clears? Check. 

 

If you lose as a Thief in this matchup, it's because you messed up to such a ridiculous degree that it's embarrassing. 

Ok let’s jus ignore that if u cannot win that match as warrior than you are probably in bronze.

 

plz make a video or a montage of warriors losing to dp thief.

 

no one in the world will believe you unless you do, becuz dp thief is the worst 1v1 build in the game rn

[CutesySylveon.8290]

58 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Ok let’s jus ignore that if u cannot win that match as warrior than you are probably in bronze.

 

plz make a video or a montage of warriors losing to dp thief.

 

no one in the world will believe you unless you do, becuz dp thief is the worst 1v1 build in the game rn

Once again, you're too stuck on overall 1v1 and not how the builds or classes compete against each other. Shouting 'bad at 1v1' means all of nothing when you break down how they interact. You're just being willfully ignorant at this point, or maybe you're that deluded, idk. Bronze thief players die to warriors, not the other way around. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Dp thief has not been the go to for years.

 

you lack the basic knowledge of what meta is and how it is played.

 

you guys are making the same comments a bronze player would make literally- stop wasting my time

I waste your precious time oh mighty all knowing guy? 

 

Weren't you the one going around flaming people the other day about NA and EU servers in WvW and how EU sucks? 

 

Enlighten me mate. Outside of DP Daredevil and maybe SD thief tell me what's that meta build thieves play that's successful? 

 

You mean the condi kitten variant? That's obviously not what people refer to in this thread. Hell, I no diff condi thieves as Zerker with reflects. They are not the issue here. Nor is sword dagger. Dagger pistol is. That's the most viable, the most secure and the easiest way a thief can counter warrior. 

 

To claim otherwise is for you to live in your little bubble. 

 

Please don't waste my time 🛀

[RedAvenged.5217]

7 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Once again, you're too stuck on overall 1v1 and not how the builds or classes compete against each other. Shouting 'bad at 1v1' means all of nothing when you break down how they interact. You're just being willfully ignorant at this point, or maybe you're that deluded, idk. Bronze thief players die to warriors, not the other way around. 

Ok so you mean in a plus 1 then? Nothing about your post hinted to that.

 

I mean that is true, but it’s mostly in ats where people just play giga bunkers- so a dps class that’s as nerfed as warrior cannot survive that. 
 

I guess in the end we agree idk

[RedAvenged.5217]

10 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I waste your precious time oh mighty all knowing guy? 

 

Weren't you the one going around flaming people the other day about NA and EU servers in WvW and how EU sucks? 

 

Enlighten me mate. Outside of DP Daredevil and maybe SD thief tell me what's that meta build thieves play that's successful? 

 

You mean the condi kitten variant? That's obviously not what people refer to in this thread. Hell, I no diff condi thieves as Zerker with reflects. They are not the issue here. Nor is sword dagger. Dagger pistol is. That's the most viable, the most secure and the easiest way a thief can counter warrior. 

 

To claim otherwise is for you to live in your little bubble. 

 

Please don't waste my time 🛀

Have u seen thief at all in the past few years? Dp was only relevant recently- first it was sd, then deadeye, then condi sd, then staff then s/p then dd which evolved eventually to the current dp build.

 

and no dp isn’t good against war 1v1, so idk what you are even talking about

[Grand Marshal.4098]

7 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Have u seen thief at all in the past few years? Dp was only relevant recently- first it was sd, then deadeye, then condi sd, then staff then s/p then dd which evolved eventually to the current dp build.

 

and no dp isn’t good against war 1v1, so idk what you are even talking about

SD is strong vs Warr but suffers with no blinds unless Shadow Arts is traited. Even then the output is significantly lower. 

 

Condi thief repeater isn't unblockables so warriors can defend well against it. Revenge Counter can be super strong against it too. 

 

Staff is just evades and dmg. Warriors reply with Endure Pain and Savage Instinct in Berserker or Full Counter. Flat strike dmg is never an issue for a warrior of the same skill lvl tbh. 

 

Deadeye is a tough match, until you slot on my mark and bring over either spellbreaker OH dagger, MH berserker sword or just shield. You sustain their burst and when they are at their weakest with initiative you roll on them melee. Pvp has LoS tactics too, unlike say WvW. 

 

Sword pistol is very unreliable as pistol whip may be an evade but roots you hard with the animation. I've ask guildies who do tournaments and have told me as much. Played it for myself and although I like it I find it very restricting in mobility, despite sword 2.

 

Dual dagger is a meme rn ofc. 

 

Rly it may have boiled down to DP thief rn, but you don't tell me what's the build that truly counters warrior. Or do you suggest warrior counters thief? Maybe in raw dmg output sure. 

[RedAvenged.5217]

3 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

SD is strong vs Warr but suffers with no blinds unless Shadow Arts is traited. Even then the output is significantly lower. 

 

Condi thief repeater isn't unblockables so warriors can defend well against it. Revenge Counter can be super strong against it too. 

 

Staff is just evades and dmg. Warriors reply with Endure Pain and Savage Instinct in Berserker or Full Counter. Flat strike dmg is never an issue for a warrior of the same skill lvl tbh. 

 

Deadeye is a tough match, until you slot on my mark and bring over either spellbreaker OH dagger, MH berserker sword or just shield. You sustain their burst and when they are at their weakest with initiative you roll on them melee. Pvp has LoS tactics too, unlike say WvW. 

 

Sword pistol is very unreliable as pistol whip may be an evade but roots you hard with the animation. I've ask guildies who do tournaments and have told me as much. Played it for myself and although I like it I find it very restricting in mobility, despite sword 2.

 

Dual dagger is a meme rn ofc. 

 

Rly it may have boiled down to DP thief rn, but you don't tell me what's the build that truly counters warrior. Or do you suggest warrior counters thief? Maybe in raw dmg output sure. 

Warrior beats a dp thief 1v1. I think the pp condi build that @noobfest.2180plays probably beats it though. That’s a fairly strong 1v1 build that is insanely rare rn though, I think he’s the only person playing it at least at a good level

[ZDragon.3046]

still wondering why 1v1 even matters and why viability is based upon it from someone who claims to be plat 3+

Necro is one of the worst classes to 1v1 on even more so under core and reaper this must mean it needs buffs because it is unviable.

Ranger is also very strong in 1v1 which means it must need some nerfs to tone down its viability. 

 

Knowing full well any decent player is not going to agree to what I just wrote above why why is this conversation even taking place based on 1v1 factors that don't matter. Until anet adds something that allows 1v1 play for a rank or rewards viability shouldn't be based upon it. 

 

The only thing 1v1 shows right now is your personal skill level with a certain class against someone else playing a certain class. 

If warriors are trashing you in 1v1 it does not mean warrior is viable it just means you are not better than that player by yourself. 

You might beat them in a ranked match because their team is not equally matched as yours but you cant beat them in 1v1 because they are just better than you. Thats all it mainly means. There are few exceptions right now where losing in a 1v1 is due to a class being too strong or too bunker and warrior is certainly not one of those classes. 

 

[RedAvenged.5217]

Just now, ZDragon.3046 said:

still wondering why 1v1 even matters and why viability is based upon it from someone who claims to be plat 3+

Necro is one of the worst classes to 1v1 on even more so under core and reaper this must mean it needs buffs because it is unviable.

Ranger is also very strong in 1v1 which means it must need some nerfs to tone down its viability. 

 

Knowing full well any decent player is not going to agree to what I just wrote above why why is this conversation even taking place based on 1v1 factors that don't matter. Until anet adds something that allows 1v1 play for a rank or rewards viability shouldn't be based upon it. 

 

The only thing 1v1 shows right now is your personal skill level with a certain class against someone else playing a certain class. 

If warriors are trashing you in 1v1 it does not mean warrior is viable it just means you are not better than that player by yourself. 

You might beat them in a ranked match because their team is not equally matched as yours but you cant beat them in 1v1 because they are just better than you. Thats all it mainly means. There are few exceptions right now where losing in a 1v1 is due to a class being too strong or too bunker and warrior is certainly not one of those classes. 

 

Minionmancer necro is one of the strongest 1v1 builds in the game rn and it’s also possible to 1v1 on scourge regular condi core and even reaper if you really wanted to and know what you’re doing

[ZDragon.3046]

1 minute ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

Minionmancer necro is one of the strongest 1v1 builds in the game rn and it’s also possible to 1v1 on scourge regular condi core and even reaper if you really wanted to and know what you’re doing

The point > .    /

                          /

                        /

                      /    <Your trajectory 

 

Well of course you can 1v1 on core reaper and scourge i do it all the time but that does not change what i said. Necro is notoriously one of the worst 1v1 classes in the game in comparison to things like thief, mesmer, ranger, warrior, rev, etc there are so manything on the list above necro in terms of 1v1 viability. But you immediately  zoned in on minion master as if its the only thing people play. You must understand that even in 1v1 minon master wont be free for an unskilled player. 

Are you saying that just because minion master is busted due to 1 trait that it means all forms of necro must be viable in 1v1? 

Are you also agreeing that ranger needs nerfs due to how strong it is in 1v1 to tone down its viability?

 

There is no way you are plat 3+ consistently if you really think this.

[RedAvenged.5217]

5 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

The point > .    /

                          /

                        /

                      /    <Your trajectory 

 

Well of course you can 1v1 on core reaper and scourge i do it all the time but that does not change what i said. Necro is notoriously one of the worst 1v1 classes in the game in comparison to things like thief, mesmer, ranger, warrior, rev, etc there are so manything on the list above necro in terms of 1v1 viability. But you immediately  zoned in on minion master as if its the only thing people play. You must understand that even in 1v1 minon master wont be free for an unskilled player. 

Are you saying that just because minion master is busted due to 1 trait that it means all forms of necro must be viable in 1v1? 

Are you also agreeing that ranger needs nerfs due to how strong it is in 1v1 to tone down its viability?

 

There is no way you are plat 3+ consistently if you really think this.

Necro isn’t close to the weakest 1v1 , it’s actually fairly good rn