The Twisted Marionette and Legendary Armory are here!

[Fire Attunement.9835]

Either you’ll get revenge, or the Twisted Marionette will. Good luck!

[Fueki.4753]

Can we have an explanation why this is an instanced version in the Scrying Pool instead of it being put back in the open world as a world boss, where it should belong?

I would also like to know the reason why there is no public option for this.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Spiral.3724]

I'm so confused. I thought it would be back in the open world and I could just go play it. I'm at the Eye of the North and I can't jump in and play and I have no idea where to find the groups in LFG. The tips says to look in the scrying pool but then it says I need a party of 50?? Ugh, what a pain.

[Jilora.9524]

Tried 3 times failed which is fine players need to learn.

Seems tho any player from the squad can enter and the countdown starts before you can set up or explain. You should have some fail safe like circles in each lane and say needing 5 in each circle before the countdown.

Then once i solo the regulator to 10 percent in 20 seconds or something and you gave me another player and left a section empty so you really shouldn't add a 2nd to any area before each has at least one.

I'll try again later.

[Elvirais.5472]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Can we have an explanation why this is an instanced version in the Scrying Pool instead of it being put back in the open world as a world boss, where it should belong?

I would also like to know the reason why there is no public option for this.

 

+1 I would like a public or at the very least casual group up option for this

 

Edit: for one week only, there is a public version of Marionette, on a two hour timer apparently

Edited July 13, 2021 by Elvirais.5472
corrected info

[RoastedBloop.9817]

42 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Can we have an explanation why this is an instanced version in the Scrying Pool instead of it being put back in the open world as a world boss, where it should belong?

I would also like to know the reason why there is no public option for this.

 

If I remember correctly, it's better to be instanced. The original version had the entire lornar's pass map getting wiped if it failed. Which annoyed some that weren't interested doing it at the time. 

[Nate Anabe.6091]

From the patch notes last line in the event description:

 

"During this event, a public version of the Twisted Marionette battle will be available every two hours in the Eye of the North."

[Aly Cat.9415]

There is a public instance, but it is on a two hour timer. 

 

Only the squad leader should be able to start a private instance so it doesn't start too soon. Also, the achievements appear to be bugged. I've defeated regulators but not received credit toward that unless it only counts if you beat the encounter as a whole. Right now there's little room for error so I'm not sure how accessible this was optimized to be. I know it was rescaled at least a little since I think we originally needed 4 or 5 per platform, and now 1 or 2 can manage, but not always. Really frustrating when your platform succeeds but another is empty or had only 1 player who couldn't solo. Public is a little more forgiving at a cap of 70.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Aly Cat.9415

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

The principle issue seems to be you need to have EXACTLY 50 or you end up with some platforms with no one or only 1 person. Also two per platform seems to be insufficient; it's too easy for one platform to have trouble and sink the entire attempt. I think we need to have this adapt to player numbers and needs to to have a higher player cap.

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

I think this would work better as a proper world boss on the actual map. The limitations of squad size to 50 cause this to go badly. Run it like drytop, as a full map meta. There isn't anything in the location it uses right now anyway but a POI.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

The encounter is barely doable with EXACTLY 50 people, all perfectly understanding what is going on. If even 1 person in the entire group has any problem at all, the entire run is over.

[Ayrilana.1396]

4 minutes ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

The encounter is barely doable with EXACTLY 50 people, all perfectly understanding what is going on. If even 1 person in the entire group has any problem at all, the entire run is over.

That wasn’t the case when it first came out and well before the power creep. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Aurora.9347]

Funny, we actually see what the gw 2 community actually trully is, true colors revealed, once marionette got released groups locked it under legendary insights linking means it is not everyone, if u have not raided ull never find a spot in any group... it's suposed to be a reminding of a past nice event that was fun and acessible to everyone, now only vet players get to enjoy it... well glad to see you guys are actually the same as the wow comunity, and i am no new player, am a veteran but disgusting, hate to see gw 2 comunity always say they so open mind whilling to help new players then when something hard comes all doors close in front of new players, arena net should have never brought this event back tbh if things would turn this way....

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

2 minutes ago, Hugedeal.5426 said:

Funny, we actually see what the gw 2 community actually trully is, true colors revealed, once marionette got released groups locked it under legendary insights linking means it is not everyone, if u have not raided ull never find a spot in any group... it's suposed to be a reminding of a past nice event that was fun and acessible to everyone, now only vet players get to enjoy it... well glad to see you guys are actually the same as the wow comunity, and i am no new player, am a veteran but disgusting, hate to see gw 2 comunity always say they so open mind whilling to help new players then when something hard comes all doors close in front of new players, arena net should have never brought this event back tbh if things would turn this way....

You've clearly had some bad experiences, but that is not happening in general. What we are having though is a lot of frustration, as the event was not properly redesigned to deal with the lowered player cap, making it very hard to organize and causing a lot of uncontrolled fails. This is creating some frustration, but I have yet to see what you are describing.

[Kilty.4906]

Just saying there is a public version with a cap of 80 but it happens once every two hours just like Dragonstorm and just like any other world boss. The fight is supposed to be a little bit challenging but people want to kill this on their first try which it's not a realistic situation, the players are still learning this fight. As always the devs add just a little bit of challenge and people start complaining in the forums that "It's too hard" and then we get dumb world bosses like Dragonstorm where it's impossible to fail. It's literally sad that people want to auto-attack the boss and win. Also, the instanced fight is the best solution, since this doesn't really fit in the open world anymore and pre-made squads can open them at will without having to worry about randoms on the map.

 

1 minute ago, Hugedeal.5426 said:

Funny, we actually see what the gw 2 community actually trully is, true colors revealed, once marionette got released groups locked it under legendary insights linking means it is not everyone, if u have not raided ull never find a spot in any group... it's suposed to be a reminding of a past nice event that was fun and acessible to everyone, now only vet players get to enjoy it... well glad to see you guys are actually the same as the wow comunity, and i am no new player, am a veteran but disgusting, hate to see gw 2 comunity always say they so open mind whilling to help new players then when something hard comes all doors close in front of new players, arena net should have never brought this event back tbh if things would turn this way....

I got in a pug group just fine and we tried it three times. We will always have groups that have requisitions since they want to optimize their run, if you can't join them you can always start your own.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

The problem is that the encounter was balanced for probably 100 people. That would make each mini boss take 4 people. Under the current set up each boss has to be duoed. If someone go to the wrong lane, a boss will have to be soloed. 

Clearly what the blog post about bringing it up for current standard means nothing was changed but the art of the main boss. No testing and no balancing, but remove the butt, boobs and heels, and it is good to go.

Edit: to fix the encounter would be to deduce it to 4 lanes, this would increase group sizes to 3 people per boss.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Shadowmoon.7986

[Ayo.2316]

Unfortunately, this event has become a poorly balanced disappointment.

[Kilty.4906]

9 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

The problem is that the encounter was balanced for probably 100 people. That would make each mini boss take 4 people. Under the current set up each boss has to be duoed. If someone go to the wrong lane, a boss will have to be soloed. 

Clearly what the blog post about bringing it up for current standard means nothing was changed but the art of the main boss. No testing and no balancing, but remove the butt, boobs and heels, and it is good to go.

Two in each plataforms works perfectly, it's a little challenging but if you use your heal skill, dogde and kite it you can get the kill and also the public version takes 80 people.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Kilty.4906
Less salt

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

9 minutes ago, Kilty.4906 said:

Two in each plataforms works perfectly, it's a little challenging but if you use your heal skill, dogde and kite it you can get the kill and also the public version takes 80 people.

I am all for difficulty, but there is legitimate (where it's about you learning it and being better) and illegitimate difficulty (where there is an inherent systems issue you have to fight or get lucky with to win). At at least 3 people per platform and a safety to prevent empty platforms, this is fine and wouldn't need any changes. As it stands it's too easy for a platform to be empty, or solo (try constantly attacking from behind with only 1 person) and scrub the run through no one's fault.

 

Really they should have put this back on Lornar's Pass as proper world boss with full map player counts. There would have been barely any need to make changes at that point, as it already was hard but worked fine at full map counts. It should just be like Drytop (which is ironic since Drytop is actually made to be just like Marionette in the first place, just with the whole map leading up to it).

Edited July 13, 2021 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Obtena.7952]

Nice ... an anti-casual boss implementation. Did you guys lose your vision of the game or what? 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Kilty.4906]

2 minutes ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

I am all for difficulty, but there is legitimate (where it's about you learning it and being better) and illegitimate difficulty (where there is an inherent systems issue you have to fight or get lucky with to win). At at least 3 people per platform and a safety to prevent empty platforms, this is fine and wouldn't need any changes. As it stands it's too easy for a platform to be empty, or solo (try constantly attacking from behind with only 1 person) and scrub the run through no one's fault.

Yeah but the solution is either a very organized group or nerf the boss because you can't have more than 50 people on the squad and if they were to increase the people on each plataform they would need to decrease the amount of plataforms and this would nerf the fight. The bosses aren't really that hard, they have low hp and most of them you can kite while the other kills it and if you cc them the shield goes down. Still there is the public version which supports more people allowing a more unorganized fight because of man power.

 

[Kilty.4906]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Nice ... an anti-casual boss implementation. Did you guys lose your vision of the game or what? 

This is the reason why we get bosses like Dragonstorm, where the possibility to fail is none, and content like solo story missions that you can bypass with auto-attacks. This game has amazing combat but it has been nerfed and left unexplored with content far too easy. Also, Guild Wars 2 is not a "casual game", its vision was never to incentivize casual gameplay.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Kilty.4906
I clarified my arguments

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

2 hours ago, Kilty.4906 said:

Yeah but the solution is either a very organized group or nerf the boss because you can't have more than 50 people on the squad and if they were to increase the people on each plataform they would need to decrease the amount of plataforms and this would nerf the fight. The bosses aren't really that hard, they have low hp and most of them you can kite while the other kills it and if you cc them the shield goes down. Still there is the public version which supports more people allowing a more unorganized fight because of man power.

 

No the solution is to not make this based on the squad system, or set up a way for multiple squads in one instance. Or just put it back in Lornar's Pass to remove the squad limit issues. This is an issue of their own creation due to a poor choice of implementation. Either they can fix the content to work with the implementation, or the implementation to work with the content. Blaming the players for the kinds of issues that we are seeing is apologist.

 

The players don't get to pick which platforms they go to. The players can organize into squads but as we are seeing even that is uncertain to work. Even in the more populated public runs (70ish players) empty platforms are still coming up, so there is clearly an underlying issue here. Most of it has to do simply with even designing this to run so close to the exact amount of player needed to actually do it.

 

In all likelihood the original version probably also had similar issues under the hood, they just failed to manifest as during LS1 there were so many more players (125-150 per attempt) that the issues were concealed by weight of statistics.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Fueki.4753]

5 minutes ago, Kilty.4906 said:

See, this is the reason why we get bosses like Dragonstorm and content like solo story missions. A game with amazing combat nerfed and unexplored. Also, Guild Wars 2 is not a "casual game", its philosophy was never to appeal to casual gameplay.

The bigger problem is that Arenanet refuses to add difficulty options.

They could easily keep the current Marionette difficulty while adding a casual difficulty.

It's the same they should have done with raids - which they have refused to do for almost six years now.

 

Having only one difficulty for each piece of content automatically turns away parts of the playerbase.

[Kilty.4906]

2 minutes ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

No the solution is to not make this based on the squad system, or set up a way for multiple squads in one instance. Or just put it back on Lornar's pass to remove the squad limit issues. This is an issue of their own creation due to a poor choice of implementation. Either they can fix the content to work with the implementation, or the implementation to work with the content. Blaming the players for the kinds of issues that we are seeing is apologist.

The way they implemented is great, the problem is people see a champion and they panic because they can't kill it with auto attacks. I understand that soloing it is diffucult but you shouldn't have a big problem with a duo. Also if you are dying you can always move from beserker to something more resilent like marauder.

 

1 minute ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The bigger problem is that Arenanet refuses to add difficulty options.

They could easily keep the current Marionette difficulty while adding a casual difficulty.

It's the same they should have done with raids - which they have refused to do for almost six years now.

 

Having only one difficulty for each piece of content automatically turns away parts of the playerbase.

That is a great solution, they should have difficulty settings for all their contents but it's like ArenaNet doesn't want to go for the extra effort instead they create new content like Strike Missions that doesn't appeal nor to the casuals and nor to the hardcores.

 

And don't get me wrong, I do think this is difficult but this seems to be their intent and as Fueki said this problem could easily be fixed with difficulty settings.