Different Outfits, Gliders & Mounts per Equipment Template [Merged]

[Tiviana.2650]

On 9/27/2021 at 2:32 AM, costepj.5120 said:

That's a very narrow minded view and misses some obvious use cases. I level a character every week and I don't want to stop every ten minutes to check my "look". Using an outfit means I can quickly equip any improved armour pieces I find without having to worry about re-skinning or re-dying them.

I didnt say remove outfits now did I. I said a lot of people want a choice not an all in one outfit. Whats wrong with that? Whats narrow minded is to only sell outfits when there is a large amount of players that would like to buy separate skins instead of all or nothing. 

[costepj.5120]

32 minutes ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

I didnt say remove outfits now did I. I said a lot of people want a choice not an all in one outfit. Whats wrong with that? Whats narrow minded is to only sell outfits when there is a large amount of players that would like to buy separate skins instead of all or nothing. 

No, you said "I hate outfits" and "Outfits say..hey look at me i dont know how to put together a look, so I garanimal it. "

[Tiviana.2650]

Just now, costepj.5120 said:

No, you said "I hate outfits" and "Outfits say..hey look at me i dont know how to put together a look, so I garanimal it. "

yes that my personal opinion, but not saying they shouldnt sell them. Im sure there are things you wouldnt like about my setup and think it looks bad, does that make you narrowminded? I just would like the option to mix it up.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

On 9/26/2021 at 9:10 PM, Tiviana.2650 said:

I hate outfits tbh, if they want to sell stuff then sell armor pieces or mix and match skins. Outfits say..hey look at me i dont know how to put together a look, so I garanimal it. 

that’s imagining a motive from your solitary perspective and not considering other people’s perspectives. 

 

my level 80s have a carefully picked out and dyed set of armor to have a specific look, but I also like to throw on an outfit for a quick change to some other look that’s not available in the armor selection or for a holiday or just because I’m bored and want to look different for a while. 

[kitkat.2745]

Outfits have their uses (I also slap them on when leveling) but I do wish there were more actually armor skin pieces. For example, the Elonian Elementalist outfit is amazing and I would kill to have the open chest piece as an armor piece for my male characters. I do get disappointed when I see something I'd love to experiment with only for it to be part of an outfit. 😞

[Doggie.3184]

a lot of outfits are ruined by large collars and shoulders that can't be removed u.u

(I like the Elonian Elementalist outfit but the collar really annoys me)

and everything is ruined by buttcapes 😛

Need more stuff like the Ice Reaver outfit. All the parts look like total crap cuz they're oversized on Sylvari males but the chest piece, so I only bought the chest piece and am happy with it. I don't even care about the price being higher overall, especially when it's unlikely I'll like every part.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Doggie.3184

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

7 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Okay maybe I didnt make clear what I mean, when I say armor I mean no stat skins. chest legs gloves shoulders boots ect, sold individually so you can mix it up and get what you like. I dont mean armor with stats, that would be pay to win, and earning that kind of stuff ingame makes for a much better game overall. 

ArenaNet recently did just that.  Sure got the forums in a tizzy, though.

Still, it may be something that will be offered again in the future.

[Vayne.8563]

7 hours ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

Okay maybe I didnt make clear what I mean, when I say armor I mean no stat skins. chest legs gloves shoulders boots ect, sold individually so you can mix it up and get what you like. I dont mean armor with stats, that would be pay to win, and earning that kind of stuff ingame makes for a much better game overall. 

No people were talking about complete armor SKIN sets in the gem store and by and large the community doesn't want them. They want armor you can get in the game.

We already have to buy every mount skin, most glider skins and a lot of the new weapon skins look mint. Why would we want to have more to spend on, instead of more to work for.

I get that it's not technically pay to win to put armor in the gem store, but if the entire game just becomes about buying stuff to look good and not playing for any of it, a lot of people are going to see this as nothing more than a cash grab. There's a different line for each person of what this is. Right now your basic look, sans outfits, that mix and match look is predominantly an in game thing.  It should stay that way.

[Vilin.8056]

25 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

No people were talking about complete armor SKIN sets in the gem store and by and large the community doesn't want them. They want armor you can get in the game.

We already have to buy every mount skin, most glider skins and a lot of the new weapon skins look mint. Why would we want to have more to spend on, instead of more to work for.

I get that it's not technically pay to win to put armor in the gem store, but if the entire game just becomes about buying stuff to look good and not playing for any of it, a lot of people are going to see this as nothing more than a cash grab. There's a different line for each person of what this is. Right now your basic look, sans outfits, that mix and match look is predominantly an in game thing.  It should stay that way.

If you haven't noticed, for the majority of the population, this game is already about buying stuff to look good.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Then, the majority of the playerbase must be satisfied with Outfits. 

[Vilin.8056]

18 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Then, the majority of the playerbase must be satisfied with Outfits. 

Quite the contrary, threads like this exist because they cannot modify their outfit to their liking. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Rasimir.6239]

1 hour ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Quite the contrary, threads like this exist because they cannot modify their outfit to their liking. 

The problem with this line of thinking is that people don't factor in the amount of work required.

 

One of the main reasons for outfits that ANet gave back then was that they are considerably quicker to make, since the designer doesn't have to worry about matching the seams of the different armor pieces on all armor types.

 

Creating an outfit, especially one that can be worn by characters of any armor class, is considerably faster than creating a set of armor skins. I seriously doubt the majority of the people complaining would be satisfied to get just one set of mix-and-match armor skins instead of 10 or so different-looking outfits to choose from.

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Quite the contrary, threads like this exist because they cannot modify their outfit to their liking. 

Threads like this aren't the majority.

[Vilin.8056]

1 hour ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

The problem with this line of thinking is that people don't factor in the amount of work required.

One of the main reasons for outfits that ANet gave back then was that they are considerably quicker to make, since the designer doesn't have to worry about matching the seams of the different armor pieces on all armor types.

Creating an outfit, especially one that can be worn by characters of any armor class, is considerably faster than creating a set of armor skins. I seriously doubt the majority of the people complaining would be satisfied to get just one set of mix-and-match armor skins instead of 10 or so different-looking outfits to choose from.

I see your point, but even making all 6 pieces of armors across all races is still relatively minimalistic effort in a game development.

In comparism, many of Steam's AAA titles charges merely $15~30 for a full game.

There's no debate that Anet has developed a conflicting skin system just for the effort of cost saving,  which detorated the customer experience.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Vilin.8056]

8 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Threads like this aren't the majority.

If you ask in a casual guild on what they would rather have in their wardrobe system, you'll end up in a different conclusion.

[Rasimir.6239]

19 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

I see your point, but even making all 6 pieces of armors across all races is still relatively minimalistic effort in a game development.

In comparism, many of Steam's AAA titles charges merely $15~30 for a full game.

Sorry, but I don't get what you're trying to say here. We were talking about whether ANet should spend time designing and implementing several one-piece outfits or instead spend that same time designing and implementing one set of armor skins. ANet themselves have said that producing armor skins instead of outfits will significantly slow the output of armor skins in general (which will likely increase the cost to buy them in case of gemstore wares, too, as can be seen by the armor skin pieces we got lately). What exactly are you trying to argue for by comparing this to the price of totally unrelated games?

 

28 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

There's no debate that Anet has developed a conflicting skin system just for the effort of cost saving,  which detorated the customer experience.

The reason ANet gave us for outfits vs. individual armor skins (which as others mentioned was asked for by a lot of players back then) was the ability to produce more cosmetics with the same manpower, which increased the variety on offer as well as lowered the price per outfit. People are used to having a new outfit offered every couple of weeks. Many would not appreciate only having new skins offered two or three times a year instead (on the assumption of manpower available to design and implement armor/outfit cosmetics staying constant).

[Vilin.8056]

4 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

Sorry, but I don't get what you're trying to say here. We were talking about whether ANet should spend time designing and implementing several one-piece outfits or instead spend that same time designing and implementing one set of armor skins. ANet themselves have said that producing armor skins instead of outfits will significantly slow the output of armor skins in general (which will likely increase the cost to buy them in case of gemstore wares, too, as can be seen by the armor skin pieces we got lately). What exactly are you trying to argue for by comparing this to the price of totally unrelated games?

I think it is clear enough. You brought up development cost argument, and I am bringing up in comparative development cost/pricing ratio to prove that this isn't an issue.

 

40 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

The reason ANet gave us for outfits vs. individual armor skins (which as others mentioned was asked for by a lot of players back then) was the ability to produce more cosmetics with the same manpower, which increased the variety on offer as well as lowered the price per outfit. People are used to having a new outfit offered every couple of weeks. Many would not appreciate only having new skins offered two or three times a year instead (on the assumption of manpower available to design and implement armor/outfit cosmetics staying constant).

Which does not change the point that they are switching to a system that conflicts with its wardrobe system, in order to sell more gems, at the cost of player experience.

[Rasimir.6239]

3 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

You brought up development cost argument, and I am bringing up in comparative development cost/pricing ratio to prove that this isn't an issue.

No. I brought up the question of using one fixed resource on either one set of armor skins or multiple one-piece outfits.

 

You are moving the discussion from what to use specific development resources on to how significant these specific resources are in the context of developing the whole game.

5 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Which does not change the point that they are switching to a system that conflicts with its wardrobe system, in order to sell more gems, at the cost of player experience.

Only the reasoning they gave was offering more variety, which you could argue (and many that advocated for increased output did argue this) improves player experience, as it increases the variety available and thus the chance for each player to find something to their liking.

 

The whole problem with the "we want individual skin pieces instead of outfits" line of argument that regularly comes up on these forums is that people fail to acknowledge the difference in resources needed to produce either.

 

The underlying discussion really is "we want ANet to spend more resources on armor skin design without higher prices", but people rarely say this outright. Instead they argue that ANet is just "lazy" or "greedy" by offering a variety of outfits instead of individual armor skins, and thus try to (knowingly or unknowingly) mask the fact that armor skin and outfit are far from equal in development/design resource required.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

5 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Quite the contrary, threads like this exist because they cannot modify their outfit to their liking. 

Wow, did that ever go over someone's head. 

[kharmin.7683]

3 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

The problem with this line of thinking is that people don't factor in the amount of work required.

 

One of the main reasons for outfits that ANet gave back then was that they are considerably quicker to make, since the designer doesn't have to worry about matching the seams of the different armor pieces on all armor types.

 

Creating an outfit, especially one that can be worn by characters of any armor class, is considerably faster than creating a set of armor skins. I seriously doubt the majority of the people complaining would be satisfied to get just one set of mix-and-match armor skins instead of 10 or so different-looking outfits to choose from.

 

2 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

I see your point, but even making all 6 pieces of armors across all races is still relatively minimalistic effort in a game development.

 

Anet has already told us that it takes at least 9 months to make one armor set.  That's not relatively minimalistic if compared to outfits which take considerably less time for them to make.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

2 hours ago, Vilin.8056 said:

I see your point, but even making all 6 pieces of armors across all races is still relatively minimalistic effort in a game development.

In comparism, many of Steam's AAA titles charges merely $15~30 for a full game.

There's no debate that Anet has developed a conflicting skin system just for the effort of cost saving,  which detorated the customer experience.

Why does this 'relatively minimalistic effort' take 9 months (Dev verified), then?  I mean, if the effort is so minimal, new Armor Sets should be available each week, or, at least, each  month, no? 

 

[Vilin.8056]

56 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

 

Anet has already told us that it takes at least 9 months to make one armor set.  That's not relatively minimalistic if compared to outfits which take considerably less time for them to make.

And the whole game takes 5 years from scratch to release, from 2007 when we were all still on Y2K kits, but we didn't start with just 7 armor skins, all 3 class combined.

Anet isn't being clear on either the developer is also dual tasking other projects during the supposed 9 months period. In which I logically assume they did.

Again, this not a new element specific to this game.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Chelu.2095]

This needs more attention and a official statement. :D

[Chelu.2095]

deleted

Edited September 29, 2021 by Chelu.2095

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

1 hour ago, Vilin.8056 said:

And the whole game takes 5 years from scratch to release, from 2007 when we were all still on Y2K kits, but we didn't start with just 7 armor skins, all 3 class combined.

Anet isn't being clear on either the developer is also dual tasking other projects during the supposed 9 months period. In which I logically assume they did.

Again, this not a new element specific to this game.

they hired other devs in order to develop the game in a timely manner.