Mist Stranger

[Poormany.4507]

Anyone have any theories on who/what the new Mist Stranger in EotN might be?

Edited July 14, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[ugrakarma.9416]

nothing mysterious, just a filler "random guy from the mists".

 

anyway i wish the writers some day explore more mists lore potencial. its still to much simplistic, just a "repository of souls". With departing of Gods, and some realms destroyed by Kralkatorrik, its become even more simplistic.

 

Also Elder Dragons invaded mists(Kralk) wanst a good direction, would be more insteresting if the mists had entities that can play a role in counterbalancing the ED.

 

The Rytlock trip, bringing Balthazar is a example of good direction.

Edited July 14, 2021 by ugrakarma.9416

[Poormany.4507]

1 hour ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

nothing mysterious, just a filler "random guy from the mists".

 

anyway i wish the writers some day explore more mists lore potencial. its still to much simplistic, just a "repository of souls". With departing of Gods, and some realms destroyed by Kralkatorrik, its become even more simplistic.

 

Also Elder Dragons invaded mists(Kralk) wanst a good direction, would be more insteresting if the mists had entities that can play a role in counterbalancing the ED.

 

The Rytlock trip, bringing Balthazar is a example of good direction.

One of the legendary lore additions mentions Lyssa and/or the other Gods being angered by use killing Balthazar. After the elder dragons are out of the picture, I think this could be hinting at a Gods storyline after EoD, which could probably be heavily connected to the Mists and its lore.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

  

10 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

I've seen speculation it could be Lord Odran from GW1 lore, but I could see it being Razah as well. Worth noting that Razah is mentioned in the 'new' bits of lore attached to Exordium.

I was hoping/suspecting to see Razah again. They (if i recall correctly genderless character) are not human, so I would expect them to be alive somewhere. If it's them, I wish it was earlier when we started all the Mist talk...
 

27 minutes ago, Poormany.4507 said:

One of the legendary lore additions mentions Lyssa and/or the other Gods being angered by use killing Balthazar.

 

Let's not forget Balthazar used her mirror to deceive us. The reference was that if she ever learned about this she'll be mad. Was she directly helping him?
I'm wondering... the talk about mortality in the trailer... it might be an actual reference to gods. Cantha was closely tied to Dwayna in the past. I think they will use that.

Also Kormir, said that she was the only one to stay behind... what if the Goddess of Truth has deceived us as well? What if the Gods are still walking among us?

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

2 hours ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

what if the Goddess of Truth has deceived us as well? What if the Gods are still walking among us?

 

what if goddess of truth got deceived by goddes of beauty and illusions? 😉

[Ashantara.8731]

16 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Anyone have any theories on who/what the new Mist Stranger in EotN might be?

 

Where can I find them?

[Poormany.4507]

9 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Where can I find them?

Next to the scrying pool in Eye of the North

[Ashantara.8731]

17 minutes ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Next to the scrying pool in Eye of the North

Ah, yes. Totally missed them! Thanks.

[HotDelirium.7984]

12 hours ago, Poormany.4507 said:

One of the legendary lore additions mentions Lyssa and/or the other Gods being angered by use killing Balthazar. After the elder dragons are out of the picture, I think this could be hinting at a Gods storyline after EoD, which could probably be heavily connected to the Mists and its lore.

"Revenge of the Gods" or something. I think we should have some sort of return from them since they left due to th dragons but if we eliminated that factor then they have no  reason to not come back- for good or for bad.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

"Revenge of the Gods" or something. I think we should have some sort of return from them since they left due to th dragons but if we eliminated that factor then they have no  reason to not come back- for good or for bad.

Except that isn't the reason why the gods left.

 

The gods were leaving long before the Elder Dragons woke because of the war with Abbadon showing them that direct interference with mortal affairs was bad. You know, the whole "Exodus of the gods" thing. The gods themselves even tell us that we have to stand on our own two feet back in Nightfall, and Kormir gives us the same speech in PoF. The dragons being gone isn't going to eliminate that fact, so they have no reason to return even if the dragons were dead.

[firedragon.8953]

A mystery. A Mr. E even.

[HotDelirium.7984]

1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The dragons being gone isn't going to eliminate that fact, so they have no reason to return even if the dragons were dead.

But they might have cause to return if they ever find out we killed one of them. Even they just stripped Balth of his power, they didn't kill him and Lyssa allegedly helped him to a degree (or had sympathy).

[Ashantara.8731]

4 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

I think we should have some sort of return from them since they left due to th dragons but if we eliminated that factor then they have no  reason to not come back

 

I'd love that!   I'm a huge fan of the Tyrian Gods. 😊

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

5 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

But they might have cause to return if they ever find out we killed one of them. Even they just stripped Balth of his power, they didn't kill him and Lyssa allegedly helped him to a degree (or had sympathy).

 

Well they kind of encouraged humans to go on and kill the previous rebel god, so I am unsure if the second one would be all that different....

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

23 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Except that isn't the reason why the gods left.

 

The gods were leaving long before the Elder Dragons woke because of the war with Abbadon showing them that direct interference with mortal affairs was bad. You know, the whole "Exodus of the gods" thing. The gods themselves even tell us that we have to stand on our own two feet back in Nightfall, and Kormir gives us the same speech in PoF. The dragons being gone isn't going to eliminate that fact, so they have no reason to return even if the dragons were dead.

They left the planet for the afterlife because of the war with Abaddon and the damage they realized they'd do by active interference. They left the afterlife realms because of the Elder Dragons for the same reasons - the damage they'd do by active interference.

wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden%20of%20the%20Gods

Quote

When the dragons rose, the gods realized a terrible truth: any effort to save the garden would instead destroy it...or them. If humanity was to endure under their guidance, it could not be here.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Facing_the_Truth#In_the_Sanctum
 

Quote

Kormir: We, the gods, saw there could be no victory in our inevitable conflict with the Elder Dragons.

Kormir: Waging war with them could only lead to the destruction of Tyria—and we, the Six, would be the match that would start the blaze.

Kormir: And so, we chose to withdraw from Tyria altogether, and spare this world further calamity... Or rather, most of us chose to.

Unless Kormir is actively lying to us, that is.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

56 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

They left the planet for the afterlife because of the war with Abaddon and the damage they realized they'd do by active interference. They left the afterlife realms because of the Elder Dragons for the same reasons - the damage they'd do by active interference.

wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Garden%20of%20the%20Gods

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Facing_the_Truth#In_the_Sanctum
 

Unless Kormir is actively lying to us, that is.

Except them staying in in the Mists isn't active interference since they, you know, weren't actively interfering with the Dragon fight, and the dragons didn't have the ability to go into the Mists themselves beforehand. You're doing that thing again where you are actively ignoring the full context, and selectively cutting out part of what they say, to manipulate what they say into something other then what they actually meant.

 

Again, going back to the original Guild Wars

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gate_of_Madness

Quote

Kormir: "Gods, we beseech you. Hear our prayers."

<Party leader>: "We have come where living men should not be. We have fought armies, crossed wastelands and conquered demons."

<Party leader>: "Now we are in the heart of Torment. We must destroy Abaddon before he destroys the world. But we cannot battle him alone."

Lyssa's Muse: "You are not alone. The gods are always watching."

Kormir: "Watching? We need your help. We are only mortals, and we challenge a god."

Lyssa's Muse: "There was a time when the gods walked the earth. Every thought and achievement was a gift of the gods."

Lyssa's Muse: "But now you must realize that our gifts are within you. Dwayna lives in your compassion, Balthazar in your strength."

Lyssa's Muse: "Melandru dwells in your harmony, Grenth in your justice."

Lyssa's Muse: "And in your inspiration, Lyssa is there."

Lyssa's Muse: "The divinity is within you. And so, we give you our blessing. That should suffice for the task ahead."

Lyssa's Muse: "And to you, Kormir, a most special gift."

Lyssa's Muse: "This is your world, now. This is your decision. You must make the choice that only a mortal could make."

Kormir: "Our decision? They leave us some words of encouragement and expect us to fight a god?"

<Party leader>: "The gods said we have a choice. A choice that only a mortal could make."

Kormir: "Yes. Yes, there is a choice. We can end this. We don't have to be driven by gods and their avatars. Let us go."

 

And into Guild Wars 2

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Facing_the_Truth

 

Quote

           <Character Name>: You don't have to go. You could stay. Fight with us.

Kormir: You ask for a war between the gods. Do you not know the cost of such a battle?

Kormir: Have you not learned from the last time the gods stood against one of their own—against Abaddon?

Kormir: Thirteen hundred years ago, Abaddon and his army of fanatics waged a war ranging across the shores and islands of the Crystal Sea.

Kormir: The battle was so ferocious that the ocean boiled away, leaving behind the desert you see today.

Kormir: When the gods finally struck down Abaddon, his fall warped and ravaged these lands, creating the Desolation.

Kormir: Abaddon remained a fallen god, imprisoned for a thousand years, until he rose to threaten Tyria one last time...

Kormir: A mortal hero led a mission to stop him, and against all odds, succeeded. But then...

Hero: Abaddon is breaking up!

Kormir: Incredible! All that knowledge!

Hero: It's running wild! It will destroy everything!

Kormir: I can contain the power—

Hero: Kormir! No!

Kormir: I was there to contain the damage, but by then it was too late.

Kormir: The surge of power upended the balance of magic in Tyria, and stirred Primordus from his slumber—triggering this latest cycle of destruction.

Kormir: There is no victory to be found in a war between the gods. Only casualties.

<Character Name>: I understand...but we don't have the choice you have. We have to fight.

<Character Name>: Balthazar doesn't care whether he destroys Tyria. He said so himself.

Lady Kasmeer Meade: Please, Goddess—if there is any way we can convince you to stay—

<Character Name>: No, Kas. This isn't their war—it's ours.

Kormir: Kasmeer my dear child... You never needed our help.

Kormir: You were already on the path. Follow the trail of Vlast.

Kormir: Restore what has been broken.

Kormir: The answers you seek are in the desert. I wish you good fortune, Commander.

Kormir: It's time. I must join the others.

Lady Kasmeer Meade: Goddess Kormir, before you go—

Kormir: Yes?

Lady Kasmeer Meade: Thank you. For everything.

Kormir: You carry with you the blessings of all the gods.

Kormir: Never forget that.

After Kormir departs

Rytlock Brimstone: So we came all this way just to watch her leave?

<Character Name>: Kas, are you all right?

Lady Kasmeer Meade: Just...processing, Commander. What Kormir said... I was angry. Confused.

Lady Kasmeer Meade: But it's time we stand on our own. Tyria is ours to protect. I know that now.

Canach: So what now? Are we to comb the desert for a clue? Because, as you may have noticed...there's a lot of desert.

<Character Name>: If that's what it takes, yes. You heard Kormir—we're on our own from here on out.

 

The gods aren't intervening because it causes issues, yes. I even mentioned that in my original post. But the point is to make humanity realize that the Gods have already given them everything they need to succeed. They don't NEED to interfere, we already got it in the bag. We've killed two fallen gods, and five elder dragons, without them. We don't need them, and they know it. They want us to realize that ourselves.

 

Even if the Elder Dragons all go bye bye, the gods have no reason to come back. they have already given us everything they have to give, and they already told us so back in Nightfall. There is no narrative reason to have them come back unless you want to make them all liars. And Balthazar and Lyssa, or at least half of Lyssa, should be enough of "the gods are full of it!" for one game.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[draxynnic.3719]

The context doesn't say that they will never ever have any reason to come back.

 

Like you say, it's generally been portrayed as a 'the gods want humans to stand on their own feet' situation. ArenaNet, in one interview, likened it to parents and children - at some point, parents need to step back and let their children succeed or fail on their own, however much it might sadden them when they see their children hurt along the way. That does not, however, mean that parents have to completely isolate themselves and never visit from that day forth, however.

 

In this case, the reason why the gods cut themselves off completely - as opposed to simply removing themselves from the mortal world as in the Exodus - was because of the threat of the Elder Dragons. If and when that threat is removed, a return is possible. Such a return, however, probably shouldn't be a case of "you killed one of us and now we're going to get revenge" (Kormir pretty much gave us her blessing to do so, and Dwayna, Melandru, and Grenth would probably agree with the necessity even if Lyssa is a bit more difficult to predict) so much as a reunion of parents with adult, independent descendants. Think of the difference between how an 18-year-old relates to their parents and how thirty-plus-year-olds who have established their own careers relate to their parents.

 

Heck, it's even possible that a 'return of the gods' arc might involve a threat where they need allies that have shown their ability to face threats on around the same level of the gods more than they need worshipers.

 

On 7/15/2021 at 5:16 AM, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

what if goddess of truth got deceived by goddess of beauty and illusions? 😉

It is interesting to note that the goddess most reluctant to leave her people in Orr was the one making fun of Kormir for not wanting to leave. One wonders if the lady doth protest too much.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I would love to see the Gods come back after EoD. Heck each of them could be their own LWS worth of content. It may be human centric, but the Gods are pretty important to Tyrian history and lore.

 

That and I want to see them in their full glory like we got to see Balthazar.

[ugrakarma.9416]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I would love to see the Gods come back after EoD. Heck each of them could be their own LWS worth of content. It may be human centric, but the Gods are pretty important to Tyrian history and lore.

 

That and I want to see them in their full glory like we got to see Balthazar.

the contextualizing perception of other races about human gods is also part of fun, i love Rytolock comments in "victory or death" and the Komir instance on Pof. Also the asuran "notes" about gods.

[starhunter.6015]

What if the Mist Stranger is Abbadon just setting us all up for his next stage in his play for power ?

[Tyson.5160]

On 7/14/2021 at 11:34 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Except that isn't the reason why the gods left.

 

The gods were leaving long before the Elder Dragons woke because of the war with Abbadon showing them that direct interference with mortal affairs was bad. You know, the whole "Exodus of the gods" thing. The gods themselves even tell us that we have to stand on our own two feet back in Nightfall, and Kormir gives us the same speech in PoF. The dragons being gone isn't going to eliminate that fact, so they have no reason to return even if the dragons were dead.

If anything the gods plan to take humanity to a new planet or world.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, Tyson.5160 said:

If anything the gods plan to take humanity to a new planet or world.

If the gods planned to take humanity to another world, doing so before the Elder Dragon awoke, ravaged large swaths of the planet, and the major races allied to destroy them, while also finding a way to save the planet in the process, would have been a good idea.

 

At this point... why would humanity want to go to another planet? This one is doing fine. Five Elder dragons are dead, and Aurene is seemingly able to hold the magic cycle together. If the Gods came back and were like "yo dawgs, we found a new world for y'all to live on!" humanity's response would be that famous Pulp Fiction meme of John Travolta's character looking around confused.

 

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I would love to see the Gods come back after EoD. Heck each of them could be their own LWS worth of content. It may be human centric, but the Gods are pretty important to Tyrian history and lore.

 

That and I want to see them in their full glory like we got to see Balthazar.

We never got to see Balthazar in his full glory. We saw him with a hack job of various magics, mostly bloodstone power, jammed into him.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

If the gods planned to take humanity to another world, doing so before the Elder Dragon awoke, ravaged large swaths of the planet, and the major races allied to destroy them, while also finding a way to save the planet in the process, would have been a good idea.

 

At this point... why would humanity want to go to another planet? This one is doing fine. Five Elder dragons are dead, and Aurene is seemingly able to hold the magic cycle together. If the Gods came back and were like "yo dawgs, we found a new world for y'all to live on!" humanity's response would be that famous Pulp Fiction meme of John Travolta's character looking around confused.

 

We never got to see Balthazar in his full glory. We saw him with a hack job of various magics, mostly bloodstone power, jammed into him.

Would still love to see the goddess whose beauty blinded a sculptor.

[Tyson.5160]

2 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

If the gods planned to take humanity to another world, doing so before the Elder Dragon awoke, ravaged large swaths of the planet, and the major races allied to destroy them, while also finding a way to save the planet in the process, would have been a good idea.

 

At this point... why would humanity want to go to another planet? This one is doing fine. Five Elder dragons are dead, and Aurene is seemingly able to hold the magic cycle together. If the Gods came back and were like "yo dawgs, we found a new world for y'all to live on!" humanity's response would be that famous Pulp Fiction meme of John Travolta's character looking around confused.

 

We never got to see Balthazar in his full glory. We saw him with a hack job of various magics, mostly bloodstone power, jammed into him.

Yeah just stating what the Garden of the God said would happen

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

22 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Except them staying in in the Mists isn't active interference since they, you know, weren't actively interfering with the Dragon fight, and the dragons didn't have the ability to go into the Mists themselves beforehand.

Jormag already showed a heavy interest in the Mists in the PS, the Defend the Mists biography option, and even with the Svanir in GW1 with Svanir's skill called "Retreat to the Spirit Realm". Spirit Realm is another term used by both norn and Canthans in GW1 to refer to the afterlife, aka the gods' current home at the time.

As the Garden of the Gods book which I pointed out establishes, they left further to find a new planet to bring people to, rather than direct interference. With no more reason to take humans / their faithful to another planet, or to even find said other planet safe enough to take them to, the Six Gods may simply return - or they may not. It's ultimately up to the writers on which direction to go.

22 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

But the point is to make humanity realize that the Gods have already given them everything they need to succeed. They don't NEED to interfere, we already got it in the bag. We've killed two fallen gods, and five elder dragons, without them. We don't need them, and they know it. They want us to realize that ourselves.

And I never argued otherwise, so I'm not sure why you're pointing it out to me.

22 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Even if the Elder Dragons all go bye bye, the gods have no reason to come back. they have already given us everything they have to give, and they already told us so back in Nightfall. There is no narrative reason to have them come back unless you want to make them all liars. And Balthazar and Lyssa, or at least half of Lyssa, should be enough of "the gods are full of it!" for one game.

Technically, only Lyssa's Muse and Kormir ever made the speech of "humans have what they need". But the thing is, they didn't only leave because humans can stand on two feet. In fact, humans being able to stand on their own was never the actual reason for them departing - just the reason they claimed for why they slowed-to-a-stop their direct interference.

There are a handful of hints in Nightfall, such as that one "prophecy" from the mad souls of Kormir seeking to destroy the other gods, that there are other things going on with the pantheon, and the fact that Utopia was going to deal with the Six Gods despite it being after Lyssa's Muse's speech of "humans have all they need" shows that there is narrative reason for them to become involved again, if ArenaNet wanted to involve them.

Hell, the entire Balthazar arc itself brings reason for their involvement, and the new lore from Vision with the armory only increases this potential reasoning.

Ultimately, it feels like you're conflating the speech of "humans do not need the gods" with "the gods left because humans no longer need them" - these are two very different statements.

9 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

If the gods planned to take humanity to another world, doing so before the Elder Dragon awoke, ravaged large swaths of the planet, and the major races allied to destroy them, while also finding a way to save the planet in the process, would have been a good idea.

Can't take humans to another world that hasn't been found yet. It's pretty clear to me that humanity cannot survive indefinitely within the Mists, and the Six Gods haven't yet found a planet without an Elder Dragon-level threat.