New path to legendary armor?

[Flapjackson.1596]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, I didn't say Anet should move rewards OUT of unpopular modes in this thread; I certainly don't believe the current paths to Leg. armor need to be removed or changed. We are talking about adding paths and my point is that Anet is missing an opportunity to involve more players in getting legendary armor with the current paths available.  

I agree with that last point and Anet should remedy that by making the current paths more accessible with an actual learning curve to content. If the current paths become more appealing then that will increase access to legendary armor. I've already seen plenty of people who got into raiding recently because armory inspired them to go for armor. A more casual path for a basic boring legendary armor set is also worth discussing but I consider that a lower priority given that the audience for that has less need for build flexibility, equipment templates & stat-swappable exotics already make for easy swapping between only 2-3 sets, and I'm not certain that audience is fully aware of the insane time investment Anet would slap on it given that there isn't a high skill requirement for most Open World content.

[ArchonWing.9480]

10 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

I agree with that last point and Anet should remedy that by making the current paths more accessible with an actual learning curve to content. If the current paths become more appealing then that will increase access to legendary armor. I've already seen plenty of people who got into raiding recently because armory inspired them to go for armor. A more casual path for a basic boring legendary armor set is also worth discussing but I consider that a lower priority given that the audience for that has less need for build flexibility, equipment templates & stat-swappable exotics already make for easy swapping between only 2-3 sets, and I'm not certain that audience is fully aware of the insane time investment Anet would slap on it given that there isn't a high skill requirement for most Open World content.

Well, they were trying with strike missions but not really sure how that turned out. It just seemed a bit too easy but I never tried much.

 

But then again it's also not just a skill issue, and rather the ambivalance people may have towards organized group content like raids. It can be quite time consuming and then there's your occasional toxic pug or w/e.

 

A lot of this is mitigated if one joins a guild, but the incentive to take advantage of this game's social features is quite lacking. And then there's a lot of players that just treat the game as single player. (Though , the game being to friendly to that has been good in many respects)

 

As a side note, I don't know much about raid legendary armor. How much raiding is necessary? Do you need to clear every raid?

Edited July 21, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Endilbiach.4132]

19 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, they were trying with strike missions but not really sure how that turned out. It just seemed a bit too easy but I never tried much.

 

But then again it's also not just a skill issue, and rather the ambivalance people may have towards organized group content like raids. It can be quite time consuming and then there's your occasional toxic pug or w/e.

 

A lot of this is mitigated if one joins a guild, but the incentive to take advantage of this game's social features is quite lacking. And then there's a lot of players that just treat the game as single player. (Though , the game being to friendly to that has been good in many respects)

 

As a side note, I don't know much about raid legendary armor. How much raiding is necessary? Do you need to clear every raid?

 

Only one I've really qualified to answer (plus my brain is tired and I am tired) is the last one.  In short, no, you don't need to get clear every raid unless you want to do it in the minimum time.  For your first suit of legendary armor you would need 6 weeks where you cleared enough bosses to get 25 Legendary Insight's per week.  Problem: You can only directly get 15 per week, the other 10 you have to get from converting Legendary Divinations to Legendary Insights every week, which actually does meaning clearing every raid if you want to get the 25 per week and doing it in 6 weeks.  Subsequent sets require 12 weeks total each because you then need to craft the precursors for those (you get one free precursor set from achievements).  If you see my previous posts, that's where I get 30 weeks from.  30 Perfect weeks to be clear.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor
 

There's a good source for what's required for each set.

[ArchonWing.9480]

15 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

Only one I've really qualified to answer (plus my brain is tired and I am tired) is the last one.  In short, no, you don't need to get clear every raid unless you want to do it in the minimum time.  For your first suit of legendary armor you would need 6 weeks where you cleared enough bosses to get 25 Legendary Insight's per week.  Problem: You can only directly get 15 per week, the other 10 you have to get from converting Legendary Divinations to Legendary Insights every week, which actually does meaning clearing every raid if you want to get the 25 per week and doing it in 6 weeks.  Subsequent sets require 12 weeks total each because you then need to craft the precursors for those (you get one free precursor set from achievements).  If you see my previous posts, that's where I get 30 weeks from.  30 Perfect weeks to be clear.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_armor
 

There's a good source for what's required for each set.

 

Hmm, from that, I gathered that you have to do the collections and it seems like some of the items can only be gathered by defeating the last boss of certain raids.

[Endilbiach.4132]

6 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

Hmm, from that, I gathered that you have to do the collections and it seems like some of the items can only be gathered by defeating the last boss of certain raids.

 

Oh 100%, not to mention treasure hunts inside the raid instances themselves.

[Astralporing.1957]

4 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Well, they were trying with strike missions but not really sure how that turned out.

Considering they dropped original strike design at some point and moved to DRMs (and then to big squad instances), tells me it probably didn't work out all that well.

 

 

Quote

As a side note, I don't know much about raid legendary armor. How much raiding is necessary? Do you need to clear every raid?

You need to clear first 4 wings for specific collection achieves (with some additional requirements - i.e. one boss you have to clear without dying or getting downed, another you need to clear 5 times). That's the easy part. Then you need to clear 150 bosses for the first set... and 300 bosses for the subsequent ones - so, 750 boss kills for a full complement of armor sets for 3 weights (the initial boss kills for collections do count for that).

 

That's a whole year of full clears (probably more, considering you probably won't start full clearing everything). It's still probably the fastest way of obtaining legendary armor, assuming you can find 9 other people willing to do that for you (pugging everything is almost certainly going to take longer)

 

Edit: forgot we have more wings now - as the poster above mentioned it is "only" 30 weeks of perfect full clears nowadays, not a year. Still, in reality it's going to take longer than that.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Cyninja.2954]

5 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

As a side note, I don't know much about raid legendary armor. How much raiding is necessary? Do you need to clear every raid?

 

The math is simple, you need 150 Legendary Insights for the first armor, and 300 LI for any subsequent one.

 

The absolute maximum attainable Legendary Insights per week per account currently is 25, 15 from the first 4 wings, 10 from converting Legendary Divinations from the later 3 wings. This brings the total required of weeks per raid down to 6 for the first set, or 12 for the following sets.

 

The assumption that any new player will clear all 7 wings from the get go is hilarious and absolutely unrealistc. Unless you are prepared to buy from raid sellers, in which case yes, that is possible.

 

A far more realistic assumption would be:

- assume only wings 1-4 are cleared, they are run the most, many more casual groups run them for fun, they are far easier than the later wings

- assume 1 or 2 raids per week of around 2 hours length

- assume that it takes 1 week to learn/teach a new wing to new players, then add that wing to the total LI gained per week (and even that is generous)

 

Given these assumptions the total time needed to progress to legendary armor via raids would amount to:

Week 1 - 4 LI from Wing 1

Week 2 - 7 LI from Wing 1+2

Week 3 - 11 LI from Wing 1+2+3

Week 4 - 15 LI from Wing 1+2+3+4

Week 5 and beyond - 15 LI

 

That's 37 LI in the first 4 weeks, leaving a total of 113 LI required. That's another 8 (7.5) weeks of raids of wing 1-4 full clear. Which brings the total to around 12 weeks of raiding for the first set. At 15 LI per week, that's 20 weeks of raiding for each subsequent set of armor.

 

This would be using realistic or plausible assumptions for a new raider.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[blp.3489]

13 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

But then again it's also not just a skill issue, and rather the ambivalance people may have towards organized group content like raids. It can be quite time consuming and then there's your occasional toxic pug or w/e.

I think for many people they don't want the pressure of potentially wiping out or setting back the other people in the group if they do something wrong.  Even before anyone curses you out you already feel bad.

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, blp.3489 said:

I think for many people they don't want the pressure of potentially wiping out or setting back the other people in the group if they do something wrong.  Even before anyone curses you out you already feel bad.

 

Yea, that's probably a thing too. I think that relates to the large time block spent as well, as you would be wasting a lot of people's time.

 

And to be fair, I don't pug these things either; usually with mostly friends or guildies.  I suppose pugging requires somewhat more initiative and communication.

 

But like I said before the game does not really encourage you to join a guild.

Edited July 21, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Endilbiach.4132]

36 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

Yea, that's probably a thing too. I think that relates to the large time block spent as well, as you would be wasting a lot of people's time.

 

And to be fair, I don't pug these things either; usually with mostly friends or guildies.  I suppose pugging requires somewhat more initiative and communication.

 

But like I said before the game does not really encourage you to join a guild.

 

Not unless you already know what a guild offers, you're right.

[Infusion.7149]

Guilds advertise what they offer and there's training groups on discord that have no such commitment.
It's only an "issue" if you have no friends , no guild and exclusively PVE (because there exists PVP and WVW legendary armor), which means why play a MMO instead of a single player RPG?

Only 2 reasons to play a MMO over a single player game:
* PvP / competitive modes versus other players (see every MOBA , "autochess", RTS, racing game, or shooter)
* playing with people on the other side of the country or world (cooperative)

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

33 minutes ago, Endilbiach.4132 said:

 

Not unless you already know what a guild offers, you're right.

 

Well, keep in mind for a lot of more casual players need not join a "raiding" guild. A lot of more generalist guilds will have those that have a wider range of skill levels, and stuff like Discord helps a lot.

 

11 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Guilds advertise what they offer and there's training groups on discord that have no such commitment.
It's only an "issue" if you have no friends , no guild and exclusively PVE (because there exists PVP and WVW legendary armor), which means why play a MMO instead of a single player RPG?

Only 2 reasons to play a MMO over a single player game:
* PvP / competitive modes versus other players (see every MOBA , "autochess", RTS, racing game, or shooter)
* playing with people on the other side of the country or world (cooperative)

 

 

Well, Gw2 is pretty unique in that you don't really need to group with anyone long term. Part of this is because open world is easy, but also just because of the open ended nature of progression (despite what people may claim). You can play grouped with people, but basically are a soloer.

 

Granted, I probably would have stuck to open world myself, if I didn't play WvW.

Edited July 21, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Endilbiach.4132]

43 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

 

Well, keep in mind for a lot of more casual players need not join a "raiding" guild. A lot of more generalist guilds will have those that have a wider range of skill levels, and stuff like Discord helps a lot.

 

 

Well, Gw2 is pretty unique in that you don't really need to group with anyone long term. Part of this is because open world is easy, but also just because of the open ended nature of progression (despite what people may claim). You can play grouped with people, but basically are a soloer.

 

Granted, I probably would have stuck to open world myself, if I didn't play WvW.

 

I mean, my two game modes are open world and wvw, neither of which I group for very much.  I'll join a blob as it runs by or run with my spouse anywhere I go but that's basically the limit to my usual grouping.  Oh, and metas I'll join a squad for LFG reasons, and strikes I'll set up a squad, but those don't feel quite the same.  I really enjoy being able to be solo for most of the content in this game, even if I'm actively participating with other players.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Guilds advertise what they offer and there's training groups on discord that have no such commitment.
It's only an "issue" if you have no friends , no guild and exclusively PVE (because there exists PVP and WVW legendary armor), which means why play a MMO instead of a single player RPG?

It's interesting how you treat friends/guildies someone might have that are not interested in raid content as if they did not exist. Only friends that raid and guilds with raid group (or enough of players interested in said content to make one) seems to count.

 

 

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's interesting how you treat friends/guildies someone might have that are not interested in raid content as if they did not exist. Only friends that raid and guilds with raid group (or enough of players interested in said content to make one) seems to count.

 

 

Yea..out of my 5 guilds only one does raids, and thats the whole reason that one guild exists, is to do raids. The other 4 dont really do any kind of instanced content at all, and none of my friends that i still talk to do raids either.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Infusion.7149]

36 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

It's interesting how you treat friends/guildies someone might have that are not interested in raid content as if they did not exist. Only friends that raid and guilds with raid group (or enough of players interested in said content to make one) seems to count.

 

 

There's a difference between people that simply are uninterested (in which case you don't want it enough) and those that are afraid to do the content. Also good thing there's 3 different modes to obtain legendary armor.

It's all about mindset. I started raids with WvW players in WVW gear as a side activity (raids are weekly but WvW is 24 hour/7days 365.25 days a year content) and diviner's gear didn't exist. We wiped many times because the current powercreep we have now didn't exist in the chrono druid meta. As one of the commanders I run with says "if you die ingame you don't die in real life". Most of them went back to WvW after first set of armor, but with the kP you gain after doing things you can just PUG it or join any other people that also know the raid (friends, training discord , any other guild that does raids at all). You're not obligated to get the armor in the minimum time. We are talking about W1-4 here, since it's legendary armor...

I remember seeing a guild that plays music in Lions Arch for people do raids and make memes about it. So this concept that people have to be raiders is contrived.

Anyway have you even asked said friends/guildmates if they were interested in doing raids or just assumed they don't want to? Did you find out why? Do those same players do the strike missions that were supposed to be the "ramp" to raids? Do they do fractals? If they don't do fractals then ascended would just be a craft for <2% gain in terms of armor. I remember when ascended armor cost as much as legendary armor does now.

 

One of the things I advocated for in the past is more ascended weapons for living story : the dragonsblood weapons are okay but the Dragon slayer weapons leave a lot to be desired in their acquisition method (i.e. the players with fewer resources are less likely to obtain them). The free weapon chest with Berserker's stats as a part of return to Living Story and Frostsaw are examples of positive changes to the game.

Not to mention the thread is about giving legendary armor essentially to openworld players. There has not been a single legitimate argument for it (also consider the original poster said they have less than 100 gold which is not enough for one piece), whereas there are many arguments for a WvW accessory for example (i.e. effect toggle, people that can't do JPs , an additional emblem sink) which takes minimal developer effort since the requirement could be copy-pasted from Conflux more or less. Given that legendary accessories and precursor weapons are from openworld , weapon collections were discontinued, and funerary incenses are a massive grind, I can't conceive why even more resources should be devoted to openworld collections when so much has already been. If gen 2 legendary weapons , otter, and the skyscale complaints are anything to go by, there should be lower emphasis on collections. Yet plenty of WvW players perservered to get Aurora/Vision even though they hate PVE because there is no WvW accessory.

If the thread was say, making the collection items more flexible in the order of acquisition that would be different. The collection is a one time deal, after that you can do whichever wing or boss you want.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Tails.9372]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Not to mention the thread is about giving legendary armor essentially to openworld players. There has not been a single legitimate argument for it

 

Define "legitimate", it's easy to claim that there are no "legitimate arguments" if someone is overly dismissive of everything that just doesn't match his personal viewpoints which can ultimatly be done for everything on every issue.

 

 

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Yet plenty of WvW players perservered to get Aurora/Vision even though they hate PVE because there is no WvW accessory.

 

Those players also had the luxury to just skip the main part of the PvE related content grind by doing some reward tracks in their preferred game mode. The argument that people should just "get the WvW set" would have a lot more weight behind it if PvE players could buy Legendary War Insights for a commonly acquirable PvE exclusive currency so your example here doesn't really compare.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

Define "legitimate", it's easy to claim that there are no "legitimate arguments" if someone is overly dismissive of everything that just doesn't match his personality viewpoints which can ultimatly be done for everything on every issue.

 

 

 

Those players also had the luxurie to just skip the main part of the PvE related content grind by doing some reward tracks in their preferred game mode. The argument that people should just "get the WvW set" would have a lot more weight behind it if PvE players could buy Legendary War for commonly acquirable PvE exclusive currencies like Unbound / Volatile Magic so your example here doesn't really compare.

What is Legendary War?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Infusion.7149

You are sidestepping the issue.

 

Your original argument was "It's only an "issue" if you have no friends , no guild and exclusively PVE (because there exists PVP and WVW legendary armor), which means why play a MMO instead of a single player RPG?"

 

That argument is valid for first two examples only if you equate "no friends" with "no friends that are interested/skilled enough in doing raids" (and yes, there are people that just aren't skilled enough), and "no guild" with "no guild that has enough players interested in doing raids".

 

Basically, what you said, is "If you don't have enough friends that might want to raid, and aren't in a guild that raids, why are you even playing MMO game? You might as well play solo"

 

Having friends that do not raid, and/or being in a guild that doesn't have enough players interested in raiding to form a squad, for some reason doesn't count to you. Almost as if those people did not exist at all. All because they do not raid/want to raid.

 

And it's all the more terrifying because you are apparently unable to see that there might be something wrong with this.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

What is Legendary War?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_War_Insight

[Infusion.7149]

31 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

@Infusion.7149

You are sidestepping the issue.

 

Your original argument was "It's only an "issue" if you have no friends , no guild and exclusively PVE (because there exists PVP and WVW legendary armor), which means why play a MMO instead of a single player RPG?"

 

That argument is valid for first two examples only if you equate "no friends" with "no friends that are interested/skilled enough in doing raids" (and yes, there are people that just aren't skilled enough), and "no guild" with "no guild that has enough players interested in doing raids".

 

Apparently, you having friends that do not raid, and/or being in a guild that doesn't have enough players interested in raiding to form a squad is the same as playing solo. Because all those people do not count to you for some reason.

 

And it's all the more terrifying because you are apparently unable to see that there might be something wrong with this.

 

If you exclusively PvE and don't do instanced content where the QoL improvement over ascended armor would even be beneficial I don't know what to tell you. Just because other people you know don't want to do raids doesn't stop you from joining a community discord and doing them. Likewise there's nothing stopping people from slowly acquiring WvW/PvP armor. One of my anti-raiding anti-PvP friends is 10K WvW rank.

People that aren't skilled enough or are lazy buy DRM CMs and there are actually more raid sellers than DRM sellers.

 

Just like the above person comparing volatile magic to a timegated currency that takes 22 hours of playtime to max out. Also having done Aurora, there's no skipping the JPs or the collection items (there's actually a WvW player asking about it on the forums). A 8 hour reward track is being compared to some PvE achievements in a living story episodes the PvE playerbase claims to do in a few hours at most and then the all too common "dead game no content" that follows.

 

To put it bluntly, a luxury is not a necessity. That's why more acquisition methods for ascended weapon drops are a positive thing whereas handing out legendaries for doing whatever you want is not.

 

It's like saying best in slot stats is legendary when that is not the case, it's ascended.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Astralporing.1957]

12 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

 

If you exclusively PvE and don't do instanced content where the QoL improvement over ascended armor would even be beneficial

At this point just having a lot of characters make legendary QoL beneficial. Economical? Probably no, but then in the past it really wasn't economical for anyone, even for people doing high-end content.

Legendary armor (or legendaries in general) is practically always a matter of want, not need.

 

Also, fractals (below CM level) and dungeons do exist. There are people that play those but do not raid. And people do change their builds even in OW/LS. And, of course, people pursue legendaries for reasons other than just QoL.

 

Again, you not seeing a need for this does in no way change how other players see it. It just means that you are unable to see any other point of view than your own.

 

Also, again, all of this in no way changes what you said before. That people that do not raid do not count, so playing with them is the same as playing solo. And this, btw, is exactly the kind of attitude that turns a lot of people against raids and raiders.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Infusion.7149]

10 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

At this point just having a lot of characters make legendary QoL beneficial. Economical? Probably no, but then in the past it really wasn't economical for anyone, even for people doing high-end content.

Legendary armor (or legendaries in general) is plactically always a matter of want, not need.

 

Also, fractals (below CM level) and dungeons do exist. There are people that play those but do not raid. And people do change their builds even in OW/LS.

 

Again, you not seeing a need for this does in no way change how other players see it. It just means that you are unable to see any other point of view than your own.

 

Also, again, all of this in no way changes what you said before. That people that do not raid do not count, so playing with them is the same as playing solo. And this, btw, is exactly the kind of attitude that turns a lot of people against raids and raiders.

 

The suggestion is asking for openworld not fractal armor. You can do anything less than T4 in exotic armor, you don't even need ascended.

 

Legendary armor is a one off thing with the armory, if someone needs it they will devote the time and energy to get it via any of the three methods just like any other player. Otherwise they don't need it enough. Players that do openworld content can use exotics and normal ascended just fine. Players that do not raid count as players, not sure what you are talking about.

Your entire argument here is they need to devote resources to making another huge collection with bugfixes and timegates just so people can avoid doing raids in W1-4 which are still PvE , plus avoid WvW or PvP. The argument doesn't hold weight because legendary weapons require WvW as well and so do trinkets and backpieces. In fact the map complete was alleviated for gen1 legendaries because capping every section of EBG was very difficult when we did not have 1 up one down server matchups. Therefore someone that wants legendary armor can acquire it slowly via WvW , which the original poster specifically said was approachable for them.

 

If you watched the interview with Cameron Rich who was a raid designer that moved to Living Story, he stated that raids and CMs are aspirational content. If even luxury QoL items are all openworld content (let's be real here the highest value items are from openworld metas) then might as well make a mobile webshop for legendaries while you're at it like one PvP-only player suggested a year ago (ridiculous). Vial of Aurilium was a gemshop item on GW2 china. That reeks of "GW2 China" style design.

[Sobx.1758]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

@Infusion.7149

You are sidestepping the issue.

 

Your original argument was "It's only an "issue" if you have no friends , no guild and exclusively PVE (because there exists PVP and WVW legendary armor), which means why play a MMO instead of a single player RPG?"

 

That argument is valid for first two examples only if you equate "no friends" with "no friends that are interested/skilled enough in doing raids" (and yes, there are people that just aren't skilled enough), and "no guild" with "no guild that has enough players interested in doing raids".

 

Basically, what you said, is "If you don't have enough friends that might want to raid, and aren't in a guild that raids, why are you even playing MMO game? You might as well play solo"

 

Having friends that do not raid, and/or being in a guild that doesn't have enough players interested in raiding to form a squad, for some reason doesn't count to you. Almost as if those people did not exist at all. All because they do not raid/want to raid.

 

And it's all the more terrifying because you are apparently unable to see that there might be something wrong with this.

And you're sidestepping the issue that a lot of people here, just like OP, do or easly could play the content required for armor acquisition (in case of OP it's at least through playing WvW, but hey "it takes too long!"), but just keep grasping at straws to pretend they're somehow locked out of rewards when in reality they just want to get rewards faster and easier, which is far from a reasonable argument.

 

Even moreso when it's about rewards that aren't locking them from playing what they want and how they want. And at least you've started acknowledging this much.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Legendary armor (or legendaries in general) is practically always a matter of want, not need.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The suggestion is asking for openworld not fractal armor. You can do anything less than T4 in exotic armor, you don't even need ascended.

And Dhuum CM has been done in greens. That you can do something doesn't mean you should, or want to.

You being able to do somthing in more difficult way does not mean you should not care about making it easier on you. And similarily, the usefulness of QoL to you is judged by you, not others.

 

 

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Legendary armor is a one off thing with the armory, if someone needs it they will devote the time and energy to get it via any of the three methods just like any other player.

Nobody needs it. Neither casuals, nor raiders. People go for legendary gear for multitude of reasons (some, but not all of them being QoL features), but none of those are necessary. Which is not a reason to not have or want them

 

 

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Players that do openworld content can use exotics and normal ascended just fine.

So can players that raid. In fact, i remember being reminded over and over again that you don't need ascended for raiding. And if you don't need ascended, you definitely don't need legendaries either.

 

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Players that do not raid count as players, not sure what you are talking about.

Well, in the sentence i commented on several times already you clearly said that those that do not have friends/are not in a guild that would enable raiding for them should not play MMOs but rather a solo game. Which means you equated playing with non-raiding friends/in a non-raiding guild to playing solo. As if those people didn't even exist, or weren't worth considering.

 

 

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Your entire argument here is they need to devote resources to making another huge collection with bugfixes and timegates just so people can avoid doing raids in W1-4 which are still PvE , plus avoid WvW or PvP. The argument doesn't hold weight because legendary weapons require WvW as well and so do trinkets and backpieces.

There are very significant differences between shallow requirements and having to dive deeply into the content. I. E if all the raid requirement that was necessary would be the collections, but LIs themselves could be replaced (or bought) with something from outside raids, many of the complains would disappear.

 

There's a world of difference between a relatively short visit into a content you don't like, and having to spend massive amount of time there.

 

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

In fact the map complete was alleviated for gen1 legendaries because capping every section of EBG was very difficult when we did not have 1 up one down server matchups. Therefore someone that wants legendary armor can acquire it slowly via WvW , which the original poster specifically said was approachable for them.

The problem with WvW is not that it's difficult. It doesn't lie in time required either. It lies with the fact that this time would eat away at your PvE activity. If you can play, for example, 2-3 hours per day, it means you would be spending in WvW all your playing time, not having any time left for seeing the content you actually prefer. For months.

 

22 weeks spent playing OW/Ls is not a problem for me, nor would i consider it a "too long" time. 22 weeks playing almost exclusively WvW however would be a massive problem and way too much time required. For me it would be equivalent of dropping GW2 and playing a completely different game (one that i am not even interested in) for half a year.

I mean, seriously, would any dedicated raider decide to drop raids and go play exclusively candy Crush for half a year? Would they even consider it a reasonable suggestion at all? I honestly doubt they would.