New path to legendary armor?

[Dante.1763]

3 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

 They most likely wouldn't even get a special skin, just like wvw and pvp. Just a QOL which is incredibly time consuming and resource intensive, even more so than the skyscale.

 

Legy armor, as introduced, was a raid-only Reward.

Even when pve(whatever this means) one get, i think many will not like what they have to do for it.

It really wouldnt bother me if it was collections, per piece, per set; similiar to gen 1 or 2 weapons, just for an ascended skin that glew blue as long as i could use the benefits it has. I skin over my legendaries 90% of the time anyways and i have 14 or 15 of them now.

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 minute ago, Dante.1763 said:

It really does, and more importantly theyve tried. Repeatedly. To get players to do raids.

 

From a business stand point, making changes to raids so they appealed to the majority of the playerbase would be within my interest.

 

Spending all that time, and money, and then abandoning it because player turnout was so low, instead of making changes doesnt seem like smart business to me.

 

 

 

They abandoned content all the time oO.

[Astralporing.1957]

56 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

This still doesn't change the fact that in the time people spent complaining they could have gotten it. Some of the people asking for it here have been complaining since old version of the forum.

What makes you think that at least some of the people that complain did not already get their sets, and are complaining not for their personal convenience, but because they are genuinely concerned about the game? Is the idea that someone might complain not to get something out of this for themselves, but because they want to improve the game so alien to you?

 

 

20 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Then these casual players who neglet raid/PvP/WvW would equally hate it.

Why would they? I mean, it's not like they don't spend a lot of time in OW anyway.

 

Time required by itself was never an issue here.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

It's like asking developers to spend another 6 month to 1 year's resource for a single cosmetic item that don't look better than gemstore outfits, cost around 4k gold or more for all 6 pieces, a lot of tediusm over collections, for a left over community that never liked the idea of switching builds.

Like it has been mentioned, Anet already spent  way more time on a set meant for very niche playerbase, and you apparently see absolutely no problem with it. But sure, if you think it's a bad idea, they can alternatively, instead of making a new set, just open the Envoy armor skin to more players. In order for it to not be just for , what did you say? Ah, yes, a "leftover community".

 

Also, why suddenly the 4k cost? All other sets are way cheaper than that, and the difficulty in obtaining them doesn'

t seem to impact the price either.

 

 

[Vilin.8056]

1 minute ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

 They most likely wouldn't even get a special skin, just like wvw and pvp. Just a QOL which is incredibly time consuming and resource intensive, even more so than the skyscale.

Which is why people would hate it. 

 

Though I do welcome the idea of encouraging casual players who only farm open world to have the motive to tryout more builds, this approache would only open another floodgate of complaints.

[Sobx.1758]

22 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

 

The kind of reward being discussed here is entirely QoL in which regard even someone who only plays for the story / lore can get as much out of it as everyone else.

Cool, then they can engage with the content that the devs made. If someone intentionally limits themselves to small parts of the game, they're far from being able to reasonably complain about not having every reward available to them.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If you want to talk about engagement with assets, you should swap your interest to talking about underplayed content

I have done that as a matter of fact. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

They abandoned content all the time oO.

I know. Its not good for the game.

 

Dungeons? Abandoned. I can sorta understand this one, due to the spaghetti code they run on, but it still sucks.

 

Raids? Abandoned. Low player counts + money costs = not worth their time.

PVP? Abandoned. Why i dont know.

WvW? Basically abandoned. Why again i dont know.

 

Anet has a history of not supporting content they introduce and in part its because they keep trying new content designs instead of going with what they have, that players enjoy. Ma

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

They abandoned content all the time oO.

Unlike with dungeons, which were so popular Anet had to first nerf rewards in order to push players out in order to be able to stop worrying about that content, Raids (according to what Anet themselves revealed) were abandoned because they simply were not popular enough.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I have done that as a matter of fact. 

I don't know what you did when, in this thread you keep repeating assets engagement in relation to giving out limited number of armor sets as it's meaningful to your claims, but it's not as a matter of fact.

[Dante.1763]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Unlike with dungeons, which were so popular Anet had to first nerf rewards in order to push players out in order to be able to stop worrying about that content, Raids, according to what Anet themselves revealed, were abandoned because they simply were not popular enoug.

And their attempts to make them more popular have failed. Instead of addressing why they werent popular with the majority of players they tried alternate means first and those didnt work either.

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't know what you did when

Clearly ... yet you speak like you do. Ironically, if memory serves, in the threads where I've spoken my mind about how to make raids more accessible to more people, you were right there opposing it ... and now your accusing me of not doing that thing based on you not remembering at worst or not knowing at best. Awesome stuff. 

 

There isn't anything weird or voodoo about what I'm saying here. It's a big miss that Anet creates things for people to experience in a game ... only to have an absolutely small fraction of people experience them. That would be fine with a skin or a mini. The scale of the 'thing' we are talking about here is a little bigger than that. 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't know what you did when, in this thread you keep repeating assets engagement in relation to giving out limited number of armor sets as it's meaningful to your claims, but it's not as a matter of fact.

Easy mode threads are also a way of doing something about underplayed content, you know. Sure, not the way you'd like it, but then the way you like it is the exact reason why the content is underplayed in the first place, so...

[Fuchslein.8639]

13 minutes ago, Vilin.8056 said:

Which is why people would hate it. 

 

Though I do welcome the idea of encouraging casual players who only farm open world to have the motive to tryout more builds, this approache would only open another floodgate of complaints.

 

Yeah i'm per se not against the idea.

But even after my last hint, no one here has really brought an idea how to implement this so that it does not only appeal to the few forum people here, but is still on the same lvl with wvw/pvp and raids.

 

Because let's be honest. The forum opinion makes only a fraction of the community.

Here in this thread is always only asked that something like this should be introduced, but not how you could introduce it (realistic). And on the one hand I read again and again that people do not even want the few who work on the raid, continue to work there because the raid com is so small. But here they want that anet works on something that will probably only appeal to a fraction of PVE-players.

[Fuchslein.8639]

An easy-mode would be okay, but not like some people here want it, with the same rewards as normal mode ...

[Vilin.8056]

24 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Unlike with dungeons, which were so popular Anet had to first nerf rewards in order to push players out in order to be able to stop worrying about that content, Raids, according to what Anet themselves revealed, were abandoned because they simply were not popular enoug.

Again, Dungeon wasn't nerfed to push player out, this idea is not even logical. The change of reward was made to balance out the lower challenge level post expansions. This is also why we have the repeatable 8 path achievement reward to encourage dedicated players.

 

Given that the majority of recent balance patches are still created around raid benchmarks, it is still at the center of developers attention. In fact, the majority of raid's popularity issue centered only around skill gap among players, not content quality.

 

Recent casual contents like DRM and Dragonstorm othe on other hand...

Edited July 22, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Sobx.1758]

31 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Clearly ...

It would be weird to expect anyone to know and remember about any other user's every post on the forum, so obviously clearly... 

(and even if I quoted your post from 6 days earlier, you'd deny anyting and pretend "it doesn't change what you said" while at the same time completely dropping what you said, which is exactly what already happened in this thread, but shhh... Lets pretend it didn't 😉 )

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yet you speak like you do. Ironically, if memory serves, in the threads where I've spoken my mind about how to make raids more accessible to more people, you were right there opposing it ...

Aww... too bad that's a lie as I've made/supported some ideas about increasing their accessibility through having smoother learning curve which was based on common complaints I saw from other players.

 

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and now your accusing me of not doing that thing based on you not remembering at worst or not knowing at best. Awesome stuff. 

I do that in light of what you're doing and saying in this thread: focusing on repeating single phrase (after you dropped other ""arguments"") of "increasing engagement with assets" while talking about 3 armor sets over the actual underplayed content. I already wrote that, yet here you are, still pretending it's not that.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

32 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Easy mode threads are also a way of doing something about underplayed content, you know. Sure, not the way you'd like it, but then the way you like it is the exact reason why the content is underplayed in the first place, so...

I supported easy mode for raids, probably just not the way you'd want it, because your focus was on easy reward acquisition and not on actual content (all the while pretending it's about saving the content, but it clearly wasn't), so stop making up lies now, thanks 🙂  

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

37 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It would be weird to expect anyone to know and remember about any other user's every post on the forum,

 

True ... so it's VERY unreasonable for someone to make a post that accuses other people of not doing something that would require that knowledge or memory in order for that accusation to be reasonable to begin with ... yet you made it. 🤷‍♂️ Par for the course for someone just looking to have an argument. 

 

So back to the topic here. There isn't anything 'nonsense' about the point that Anet creates assets in the game to entice people to engage them. It's how their business works. Legendary armor is just one of many and I don't think Anet is properly leveraging that asset to most of the people to get maximum value from that asset development. It's a miss. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nobody's preventing other players to speak up for themselves.

 

We should be striving for adding ways we can have fun, instead of wasting a lot of effort into purely preventing others from having fun. It's especially jarring when people that bring those types of "imbalances" and "unfairness" up never actually ask for balancing it towards them.

 

Hint: if some of those players that are so dead set against OW getting its own legendary armor were to start a thread asking for more legendary types of gear for their mode, you'ddefinitely not see me trying to prevent it as if my life depended on it. In fact, i'd most likely be in support of such ideas. Some people however seem to think that the way to go is to flat out prevent others from "getting the cool stuff". Which is a net negative - prevents some changes that might improve the game for some, at absolutely no gain to everyone else.

Agreed.

 

I used to be far more against introducing legendary armor to open world, even before it was added to wvw and spvp (and I still disagree with the implementation to spvp. A legendary skin unique to the mode would have made far more sense). My original complaint has always been the effect it would have on the market (and I was proven right, given the insane shakeup we have had recently, and that is with only a fraction of players even having legendary gear. The long-term effect will be interesting).

 

I will repeat what I have stated earlier in this thread:

Most players seem to assume that open world content access = easier access to legendary armor aka just some time gate. That's very unlikely.

 

For all we know, that has not been the case in the past. The complaints about different open world related legendary items (trinkets),account progression (mastery points) as well as achievement related upgrades (Skyscale for example) has ALWAYS been met with a huge wave of complaints to make things easier.

 

As such here are some issues which might come up:

1. there is an alternative method to acquire legendary armor via only open world means. It is similar cost yet far easier to acquire then raid, spvp or wvw armor -> net result is players taking the approach of least resistance (which defeats the original purpose of encouraging players to try out other game modes, the only reason legendary armor was added to spvp/wvw in the first place. WvW is debatable, but spvp absolutely given there is 0 use of the armor in that mode)

 

2. the armor is more expensive than raid, wvw or spvp armor. In come the complaints, the whining and the demands to make it cheaper (we have seen this time and time again with similar desired items/content in the past) because unfair

 

3. the armor is just as difficult to attain via open world content as it is with wvw, spvp or raid content (either heavily gated, requires an insane amount of collections which might require group or squad content, etc.). Once again, queue the complaint squad on the forums. (and chances are THIS is exactly how this armor would be implemented)

 

4. the biggest issue imo: at what point does this game become a single player game and at which point an MMORPG? There is near 0 community building outside of niche content. I get the simplicity and comfort of playing a single player game with occasionally other players in the same world, but some people should ask themselves: is that really the best approach for this game? How many players are lost on a regular basis because they drop in and out of this game just like any single player game that grows stale?

 

There are tons of valid reasons as to not spend developer resources on a 4th way to acquire legendary armor without just wanting to deny other players access to something. Some of them are even detrimental in the approach as to how to shape and design a MMORPG.

 

Not only that, it might even cause a huge amount of players to be very dissatisfied with this implementation, feeling that they are now required to get this armor given that it has been made available to them. That has certainly been the case with the Skyscale and Griffon. I still recall the tons of threads, even to this day, demanding these mounts be made less grindy.

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Notice, how it's the hardcore players, not casuals, that are massively overrepresented among the vocal crowd.

True, but that also counts towards the "hardcore" only open world players (I hope you weren't seriously assuming that players can't be hardcore but only stick to non open world content? The pure hate towards niche modes on these forums is a dead indicator of a vocal hardcore open world crowd). Which means it is a very skewed view as to necessity to what those players want/need.

 

A good chance that for example: legendary armor might not be needed as option from any future content given the vast majority of more casual players might have no desire to ever craft it. The resources spent here would thus once again only benefit a small niche group of hardcore players from this specific subsection of content, in this case favoring open world content.

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They were not the only ones in this thread though. And sincere talk about balance would require actual talking, instead of immediately going "lolnope", or claiming that if you and your friends don't raid you should not even bother playing MMOs.

 

That's not the claim made, at least by be. The claim I have seen the most is: legendary armor is not as needed in many parts of the game (or needed at all).

 

'Adversity makes strange bedfellows', and if players truly "need" legendary armor, they will find ways to reach their goal especially with the already multiple ways offered to them.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Vilin.8056]

1 hour ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

Yeah i'm per se not against the idea.

But even after my last hint, no one here has really brought an idea how to implement this so that it does not only appeal to the few forum people here, but is still on the same lvl with wvw/pvp and raids.

 

Because let's be honest. The forum opinion makes only a fraction of the community.

Here in this thread is always only asked that something like this should be introduced, but not how you could introduce it (realistic). And on the one hand I read again and again that people do not even want the few who work on the raid, continue to work there because the raid com is so small. But here they want that anet works on something that will probably only appeal to a fraction of PVE-players.

Honestly as far as the current concept of legendary armor goes, I do not believe there is a good concept of implementation for an open world set that would make the majority of players happy.

 

But rather, in my opinion, if Anet indeed wish to make Guildwars 2 a casual centric MMO, they could introduce an even higher tier of ascended armor, to balance out their skill gap with an extra boost of basic stats by making player spend a significant amount of investment.

 

This would transform account value into factor of a player's combat capability instead of pure skill, at the same time reset the economy, at the risk of pushing this game further into the gear score territory. But players who made threads like this probably prefer gearscore anyways...

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Vilin.8056

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

True ... so it's VERY unreasonable for someone to make a post that accuses other people of not doing something that would require that knowledge or memory in order for that accusation to be reasonable to begin with ... yet you made it. 🤷‍♂️

I do that in light of what you're doing and saying in this thread: focusing on repeating single phrase (after you dropped other ""arguments"") of "increasing engagement with assets" while talking about 3 armor sets over the actual underplayed content. I already wrote that, yet here you are, still pretending it's not that.

 

I mean you can pretend you can't see this all you want, but it doesn't change the fact it's clear what I'm talking about, despite you desperately trying to dodge it, lmao.

 

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So back to the topic here. There isn't anything 'nonsense' about the point that Anet creates assets in the game to entice people to engage them. It's how their business works. Legendary armor is just one of many and I don't think Anet is properly leveraging that asset to most of the people in this game to get maximum value from it. It's a miss. 

Yes, Anet "creates assets in the game to entice people to engage them" which isn't the equivalent of saying that unless every player in the game interacts with every single reward item/set in the game, it somehow makes that asset a waste which is what you're constantly trying to imply here and that is indeed nonsense. Maybe you think it's not clear what you're doing here, but it really is.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

 

Quote

 

Yes, Anet "creates assets in the game to entice people to engage them" which isn't the equivalent of saying that unless every player in the game interacts with every single item/set in the game, it somehow makes that asset a waste which is what you're constantly trying to imply here and that is indeed nonsense.

No, that's not what I'm implying ... that's just the thin veneer you are applying to what I said to make it sound absurd. I said nothing about EVERY player and EVERY single items/set in the game. I've been pretty clear about my position, and how you are re-stating it to me just shows you aren't following the conversation, just to argue. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, that's not what I'm implying ... that's just the thin veneer you are applying to what I said to make it sound absurd.

Nope.

 

Whether you'd say "all", "every", "most" or just "a lot" is really irrelevant to what I said as you're still trying to intentionally dodge the main point, but if you once again insist on pretending you didn't say something you did...

On 7/20/2021 at 10:02 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

None. The fact that Anet is missing out because they aren't engaging all players with legendary assets has nothing to do with how I think legendaries should be obtained.

This is very clearly what you've said, so stop lying now. If now you think it sounds absurd then thanks for agreeing, I guess.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[MarkoGold.7126]

I dont know why so many people think that they deserver raid legy armor for just doing pve with no raids but you dont.

if they did as you like it would be a huge middle finger to every raider who put in the effort and time to get that armor.

[Vilin.8056]

5 minutes ago, MarkoGold.7126 said:

I dont know why so many people think that they deserver raid legy armor for just doing pve with no raids but you dont.

if they did as you like it would be a huge middle finger to every raider who put in the effort and time to get that armor.

That's the whole motive.

Some people in the forum just love to give raider middle fingers, and you can see familiar name's been doing that in Raid forum for years.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Vilin.8056