What are these crazy auto attack Staff damage numbers?

[Sifu.9745]

I am new to Ranger and i have just tried out Druid in PvP training grounds where i was testing how good Staff is as a healing weapon. But when i auto attacked a Target Golem with Solar Beam i noticed that the dmg rises up as long as i stay in the combat and don't get interrupted/blocked/dodge or using any other non AA skill. The first Solar Beam hit is around 150 dmg and then the dmg increases with every hit/pulse to 300 dmg, 500 dmg, 1200 dmg, 5000 dmg, up to 30 000 per hit/pulse etc. I guess the numbers can rise up endlessly? Are these numbers real or this is just a bug? Why doesn't the tooltip says anything about the dmg increase and are these numbers only shown in PvP or i can expect them in pve as well?

Sorry for English ...

Edited July 17, 2021 by Sifu.9745

[Zyreva.1078]

The dmg number you see is the total dmg dealt, not the dmg per tick. Dmg per tick does not increase over time. You can check the combat log to see how much dmg you are actually dealing.

[Sifu.9745]

Thx UmbraNoctis, that makes a lot more sense. It's still weird though, that the total dmg dealt is shown in combat for the Staff auto attack ...

[starlinvf.1358]

4 hours ago, Sifu.9745 said:

Thx UmbraNoctis, that makes a lot more sense. It's still weird though, that the total dmg dealt is shown in combat for the Staff auto attack ...

 

Its an old quirk of the UI design, as a way to make damage floaters less messy.    One problem I have with pretty much every game other GW2 where damage floaters are present, is that as combat ramps up in late game, the number of damage sources is borderline spastic.....   Even looking at WoW, its dozens of damage ticks on the screen going off between the various individual skills ticking away.  

 

What GW2 does is consolidate whats normally combo or multi-hit attacks from a single source add up to give you the total.  This runs alongside how the tool tips have condensed damage totals for multi hit skills, expressed as "(4x): 1,000", and means 1,000 damage across 4 strikes. 

 

There was an early version of condi damage ticks which showed each individual tick separately.  With very high bleed stacks (which stack vertically), you can get 25 different red numbers waterfalling out of the target.   

 

You can turn this off in the UI under "Condensed damage floaters" to see the original version of it.  It was satisfying visually, but not helpful in quickly understanding what you're overall damage output was. (Note this was before DPS meters were a thing in this game). 

 

**************

 

However, skills have change radically over time with various class changes, especs, skill reworks, and all the balance changes associated with it.  Across the board, the vast majority of skills execute and chain faster, as well as quickness just being a thing now.   As a result, most skills that have a fairly sustained attack rate or auto chain, more easily fall under the timer threshold for consolidated damage counter. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by starlinvf.1358

[voltaicbore.8012]

There are a few autoattacks that do the same "cumulative damage" display. Mesmer greatsword autoattack works similiarly, as does engineer flamethrower autoattack. I think any autoattack that has a multi-hit but not an autoattack chain does this, but I'm not sure (and don't care enough to find out). Just know that druid staff autos are among the worst in the game, both in terms of damage and utility.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

7 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

There are a few autoattacks that do the same "cumulative damage" display. Mesmer greatsword autoattack works similiarly, as does engineer flamethrower autoattack. I think any autoattack that has a multi-hit but not an autoattack chain does this, but I'm not sure (and don't care enough to find out). Just know that druid staff autos are among the worst in the game, both in terms of damage and utility.

 

Staff auto can be used to build astral force pretty quickly and also apply bleeds at range for a condi setup--it's not all bad imo.

[Lazze.9870]

On 7/22/2021 at 1:27 AM, voltaicbore.8012 said:

Just know that druid staff autos are among the worst in the game, both in terms of damage and utility.

 

It's pretty good imo, but the coef scaling could be better (especially the healing). Good for kiting, good for being a ranged option that isn't a projectile and thus unaffected by reflects.

 

Edit: and this is confusing how..?

Edited July 24, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Sifu.9745]

On 7/22/2021 at 8:59 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Staff auto can be used to build astral force pretty quickly and also apply bleeds at range for a condi setup--it's not all bad imo.

How do you apply Bleeds with Staff auto attack? Can't find anything like that when searching build editor ...

[Zyreva.1078]

6 hours ago, Sifu.9745 said:

How do you apply Bleeds with Staff auto attack? Can't find anything like that when searching build editor ...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharpening_Stone

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharpened_Edges

(the latter is absolute garbage in PvP/WvW, don't bother using it there)

[bigo.9037]

On 7/22/2021 at 6:07 AM, Lazze.9870 said:

 

It's pretty good imo, but the coef scaling could be better (especially the healing). Good for kiting, good for being a ranged option that isn't a projectile and thus unaffected by reflects.

 

Edit: and this is confusing how..?

In spvp and wvw it hits like a wet noodle. It barely even tickles. Building CA is done much faster simply by taking small amounts of damage and getting regen from protection or regen boons + other sources passively. A proper druid build doesn’t need to think about building CA cus it always has a full bar when it comes off CD. I’m really hoping this is some kinda open world pve context cus why would you ever use sharpening stones while using staff on a druid in wvw or pvp… that sounds absolutely terrible… 

[Lazze.9870]

1 hour ago, bigo.9037 said:

In spvp and wvw it hits like a wet noodle. It barely even tickles. Building CA is done much faster simply by taking small amounts of damage and getting regen from protection or regen boons + other sources passively. A proper druid build doesn’t need to think about building CA cus it always has a full bar when it comes off CD. I’m really hoping this is some kinda open world pve context cus why would you ever use sharpening stones while using staff on a druid in wvw or pvp… that sounds absolutely terrible… 

 

What part of me pointing out that the stat scaling could be better made you think I'm praising the damage?

 

From a design perspective the autoattack and most of the weapon in general is brilliant for kiting and disenganging. Utility. Nothing to do with building CA.

 

The worst part of the weapon is the number 2 skill, that's the one that needs a rework, and I'd prefer a rework or a buff to any other skill on the staff before touching how the AA works. But as I said, better scaling on both the power and the healing side could be nice.

 

Soulbeast dagger is the opposite. kitten design that they buffed the damage on until it was competetive in the one mode it is used in. 4 chain AA on a dagger. Eww.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Gotejjeken.1267]

15 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

In spvp and wvw it hits like a wet noodle. It barely even tickles. Building CA is done much faster simply by taking small amounts of damage and getting regen from protection or regen boons + other sources passively. A proper druid build doesn’t need to think about building CA cus it always has a full bar when it comes off CD. I’m really hoping this is some kinda open world pve context cus why would you ever use sharpening stones while using staff on a druid in wvw or pvp… that sounds absolutely terrible… 

 

For WvW....

 

You're thinking way too power minded, can already see it.  Spend some time with condi druid and you'll see why you should use sharpening stone with staff.  

 

Also I'd love to see 'always a full bar when it comes off CD' if you are doing something like WvW roaming.  If you are using passive procs to build CA and not using staff to kite I guarantee a good druid is going to eat you alive.

[InsaneQR.7412]

(Wrong thred please ignore)

Edited July 27, 2021 by InsaneQR.7412

[Abyssisis.3971]

4 minutes ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

Hmm yeah nice idea. Could be when you crit while wielding an axe. The duration of the buff could be extended when you hit with an OS.

This way you could juggle it with smart play.

 You added this to the wrong thread.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Abyssisis.3971

Ooops

[bigo.9037]

6 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

For WvW....

 

You're thinking way too power minded, can already see it.  Spend some time with condi druid and you'll see why you should use sharpening stone with staff.  

 

Also I'd love to see 'always a full bar when it comes off CD' if you are doing something like WvW roaming.  If you are using passive procs to build CA and not using staff to kite I guarantee a good druid is going to eat you alive.

In wvw tho??? Sharpening stone is just a bad utility all around. There are much better options out there.. it’s like, you want damage, so you use sharpening stone.. but then you play staff? Which has no damage.. it will only deal dmg while using sharpening stone.. and even then it’s not a lot. Condi in general on ranger is just not even on the same level as power. Hybrid, maybe because of new cele buffs but.. eh..

[Lazze.9870]

3 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

In wvw tho??? Sharpening stone is just a bad utility all around. There are much better options out there.. it’s like, you want damage, so you use sharpening stone.. but then you play staff? Which has no damage.. it will only deal dmg while using sharpening stone.. and even then it’s not a lot. Condi in general on ranger is just not even on the same level as power. Hybrid, maybe because of new cele buffs but.. eh..

 

It's like there is a short circuit somewhere, and that you can't comprehend that damage focused builds can still find value in having staff on swap. Your main source of damage is obviously the other weapon.

 

If all you care about is maximising potential damage, you wouldn't play druid to begin with.

[bigo.9037]

8 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

It's like there is a short circuit somewhere, and that you can't comprehend that damage focused builds can still find value in having staff on swap. Your main source of damage is obviously the other weapon.

 

If all you care about is maximising potential damage, you wouldn't play druid to begin with.

A damage focused roamer build that loses 50% of its potential viable damage output… on a LOW dmg spec… with very little burst because condi ranger has no access to confusion and has very mediocre condi damage skills if it you’re not using skirmishing… yea I sorry, I think you’re the one short circuiting here if you think that’s a legit option. Staff is good for kiting and staying alive, but it has absolutely 0, ZERO counter pressure. You have to use utilities to cc and ancient seed ppl to apply counter pressure. Counter pressure is like half of your defense. If you have 0 counter pressure while kiting, ppl will just save their mobility for when you use staff #3, or interrupt you while you use it, and you can do absolutely nothing to stop them cus you have 0 cc other than staff #4. They can basically free cast on you. 
 

if I was a thief i could literally just steal on you as you cast staff #3 and now you’re completely screwed cus you have 9s cooldown until you can apply counter pressure. You could stall with CA, but thief can stealth more than you. If you land CA#3 and daze them for root, well too bad thief has infinite immob clears Just by dodging. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by bigo.9037

[Lazze.9870]

15 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

yea I sorry, I think you’re the one short circuiting here if you think that’s a legit option.

 

I have played remorseless druid with gs/staff in high tier pvp. Recently, after nerfs. Works fine and is fun.

 

So has rom, boycerino. The latter played it just last night on stream if you're interested in looking at vods.

 

If you were a thief, you'd be dead 🙂

Edited July 27, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[bigo.9037]

16 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

I have played remorseless druid with gs/staff in high tier pvp. Recently, after nerfs. Works fine and is fun.

 

So has rom, boycerino. The latter played it just last night on stream if you're interested in looking at vods.

 

If you were a thief, you'd be dead 🙂

That’s a POWER build…. You were justifying sharpening stones… those two don’t go together. And we were also talking about wvw not spvp, druid is stronger there. Good job moving the goalpost.

[Zyreva.1078]

Doesn't really matter that much what weapons or utilities are used on druid. All that matters is ancient seeds. You can perma immob your enemy? He will die eventually. Can't perma immob? Can't kill. Simple as that.

[Lazze.9870]

16 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

That’s a POWER build…. You were justifying sharpening stones… those two don’t go together. And we were also talking about wvw not spvp, druid is stronger there. Good job moving the goalpost.

 

Gotejjeken was the one that brought up sharpening stones. Which can be potent on staff auto together with sharpened edges on a cele build with krait runes.

 

It's pretty good imo, but the coef scaling could be better (especially the healing). Good for kiting, good for being a ranged option that isn't a projectile and thus unaffected by reflects.

 

This is what I brought up initially, and something you objected to. I never moved any goalpost, you were the one saying staff auto useless in both pvp and wvw.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[bigo.9037]

25 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Gotejjeken was the one that brought up sharpening stones.

 

Good job not paying attention.

Nice try. So if he brought it up, then why did you respond?? You respond to our conversation just to derail it and talk about something completely different. 
 

1, you talk about power, WE were talking about condi.

2, you talk about spvp, WE were talking about wvw. 
 

GOOD JOB not paying attention and derailing the discussion and moving the goal post.

Edited July 27, 2021 by bigo.9037

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Yes, I did bring up sharpening stone as a counter to the 'damage and utility' point above.  As I believe staff auto has great utility with its AF generation and the ability to apply bleeds at range without worrying about reflects, which all other ranged options that ranger has suffer from.  

 

For sharpening stone specifically, it clears two conditions and can stack 10 bleeds instantly if you use axe, or if you use shortbow it can help rack up bleeds insanely fast if you are flanking.  Couple that with skirmishing line, krait runes, and something like trailblazer and you have a formidable target to take out if you don't chain CC it.  

[Lazze.9870]

16 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

Nice try. So if he brought it up, then why did you respond?? You respond to our conversation just to derail it and talk about something completely different. 
 

1, you talk about power, WE were talking about condi.

2, you talk about spvp, WE were talking about wvw. 
 

GOOD JOB not paying attention and derailing the discussion and moving the goal post.

 

I suggest you read the entire thread again, especially the part were you specifically quoted me and mentioned both wvw and spvp and then went on about sharpening stones in that very same comment.

 

If that's too hard for you; "In spvp and wvw it hits like a wet noodle (.........)  I’m really hoping this is some kinda open world pve context cus why would you ever use sharpening stones while using staff on a druid in wvw or pvp… that sounds absolutely terrible… "

 

Don't kittening go on about moving goalposts and not paying attention when you were the one started mixing everything together in your reply to my comment, a comment where I never said anything specific about wvw/spvp or condi/power. I was talking about the utility and kiting potential in competetive modes as a whole. If anyone was moving the goalpost here, it was you.

 

You were justifying sharpening stones…

 

Then I'm telling you I didn't, and you respond with

 

GOOD JOB not paying attention

 

Good stuff, mate.

 

For the record, I agree with Gotejjeken about using staff on a condi build in wvw. I also agree with him that sharpening stones can be potent with staff, but it's not something that I personally run. So in the end, it doesn't really matter. Staff is useful on both types of builds, in both types of content.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Lazze.9870