aaron.7850 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 None of the recommended or meta builds for WvW use Condition Damage builds. Sure, you can roam solo or with a few friends with it, but what matters in wvw is zerging and blob fights. 2 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) Because simply put, power damage scales exponentially better above 1v1. Condi damage is competetive 1v1 - even though all classes basicly have as good or better power builds - but as soon as you go 2+ its pretty much all power. Its still possible to run condi in small scale of course. On top of this, AoE condi cleansing also scales exponentially better above 1v1 which further adds to it. This is just the nature of condi no matter how much people cry about it on the forums. Most of the time when a condi build is "strong" its not even because of the condi damage itself, but rather class mechanics that make them able to do extreme sustain (a condi necro being one of the easiest examples). Edited July 19, 2021 by Dawdler.8521 5 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 It's pretty much entirely because AoE cleansing is super easy to stack on what are otherwise very support-heavy builds for important things like AoE stability/protection. If AoE cleansing didn't exist then condi would dominate the ZvZ scene by virtue of how much sustain condition builds can get otherwise. 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God.2708 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 The issue with zerging with condi is that everyone has to commit to it. Since cleanses overlap very easily, a few condi damage dealers are easily overcome by support where everyone dealing condi damage might be overwhelming. I think the other oft understated aspect is that Power builds generally overlap very nicely with PvE gear choices. Run marauders trinkets instead of zerk on your Herald and poof. Condi doesn't have that power because PvE condi and WvW condi are totally different animals. So it's easy to see why one is more popular even if both are roughly the same effectiveness (though power has a small edge). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) Condi was meta multiple times during Hot and it was one of the 3 biggest reason people left this game. Believe me, every second Condi isn't viable is a gods blessing. Edited July 20, 2021 by DanAlcedo.3281 13 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) For people confused about Dawdlers comment, I’ll clear up perhaps what he is saying. When you and 80 other friends apply conditions to an single enemy, those conditions stack on top of each other, and a single cleanse, can undo the work of those 80 players…much like how a block can potentially nullify damage from an infinite number of targets…a condition cleanse can nullify conditions applied from an infinite number of condition applicants. Because there are more condition cleanses available in the game than there are blocks, conditions tend to have more counter play readily available in large scales, than power because of the access to said cleanses. By and large, the correlation between exponential scaling of abilities in a fight is based on the number of targets abilities apply to (and a few other things) but not whether it’s power or condition. Edited July 20, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said: Condi was meta multiple times during Hot and it was one of the 3 biggest reason people left this game. Believe me, every second Condi isn't viable is a gods blessing. Partially true, it became true meta due to one single skill Anet buffed through the roof - deathly chill. Which *technically* again wasnt so much due to condition damage, but the way the reaper shroud and spin to win stacking of bleeds worked. And of course people will be confused with what I said. Because CoNdI oP. Edited July 20, 2021 by Dawdler.8521 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Partially true, it became true meta due to one single skill Anet buffed through the roof - deathly chill. Which *technically* again wasnt so much due to condition damage, but the way the reaper shroud and spin to win stacking of bleeds worked. And of course people will be confused with what I said. Because CoNdI oP. What I meant was that it was meta multiple times because Hot was a constant filpflop between power and condi meta. Also are we forgetting about Condi Guard Cele meta that was so op it was nerfed like 2 weeks after people started playing it? Condi Stealth meta? Anti Dmg reduction meta? (Condi) Epidemic meta.? Condi Shout meta? Edited July 20, 2021 by DanAlcedo.3281 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroud.2307 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said: What I meant was that it was meta multiple times because Hot was a constant filpflop between power and condi meta. Also are we forgetting about Condi Guard Cele meta that was so op it was nerfed like 2 weeks after people started playing it? Condi Stealth meta? Anti Dmg reduction meta? (Condi) Epidemic meta.? Condi Shout meta? Rat Wells pre-HoT was good times, lmao. Venom Share Thief with Well Necro to AOE Stun + Immob/Condi. I remember how many people considered it the lowest of the low if anyone was using that comp. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telgum.6071 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 17 hours ago, aaron.7850 said: but what matters in wvw is zerging and blob fights. Hahahahaahahahahahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) Condi bunker beats > power bunker beats > power burst beats > condi bunker. // rock paper scissors Condi burst is equal to power burst - same strengths and same weaknesses. Cleanses are strong in the blob, but so are also corrupts and condi stacks (where condi transforms from a dot to a burst that ignores armor and protection). A viable condi composition requires more organisation, which automatically makes it unviable for a pug blob as simplicity is key in this scenario. Edited July 20, 2021 by KrHome.1920 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 a few in a zerg can be good to whittle down the enemy when they're pirate shipping, bonus points if you force cds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 There's another thread on this page stating condi is op.... I think we need an Epic Rap Battle, Power vs Condi, to resolve this issue once and for all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 17 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said: There's another thread on this page stating condi is op.... I think we need an Epic Rap Battle, Power vs Condi, to resolve this issue once and for all. Hulk Hogan vs a plague rat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Well..... I would post the epic rap battle with hulk hogan vs kim jong-il, but I'm not sure the "forums" will like that, but can look it up on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said: Well..... I would post the epic rap battle with hulk hogan vs kim jong-il, but I'm not sure the "forums" will like that, but can look it up on youtube. Kim Jong Il doesnt inflict condition damage unless you count starvation as a condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Just now, Dawdler.8521 said: Kim Jong Il doesnt inflict condition damage unless you count starvation as a condition. But he has a license to make you "IL" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 11 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said: But he has a license to make you "IL" Wouldnt that count as an adoption? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 We have an army of condi Scourge! What will you do!? "Points to the single Scrapper over there." Ohh. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said: We have an army of condi Scourge! What will you do!? "Points to the single Scrapper over there." Ohh. So you're admitting scrappers are broken op? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said: So you're admitting scrappers are broken op? YES! Nobody is saying otherwise. I only say I'm thankful that Scrapper is op because I never want to play a condi meta in my life ever again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) On 7/21/2021 at 4:41 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said: YES! Nobody is saying otherwise. I only say I'm thankful that Scrapper is op because I never want to play a condi meta in my life ever again. Scrapers are the extreme oposite of the condi meta(they are part of the condi anti-meta gameplay). OP but balanced at the same time :S due the oposite classes. Edited July 22, 2021 by Aeolus.3615 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Meowalot.3690 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 I don't know if I'm convinced by the argument that conditions are cleansed too often and too instantaneously for them to make a difference just because I can see the occasional burn guardian topping arcdps damage. Yes, burning might get cleansed, but they still dealt damage, right? What is the difference between a 5k spike from a power herald vs a 5k burn tick from a burn guardian? Now if you said that all that burning gets converted to aegis such that the overall damage of your zerg is lowered due to all the blocks, then I'd buy that. Or if all the torment gets converted to might such that the enemy zerg is hitting way harder than they should and that the torment damage isn't worth it, then I'd buy that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 6 hours ago, lordmeowalot.8135 said: What is the difference between a 5k spike from a power herald vs a 5k burn tick from a burn guardian? At 1200 range, how much do you need to do on a burn guard to get ~15 or so burn stacks to do 5k/s compared to autoattacking once on a hammer rev? 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Meowalot.3690 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said: At 1200 range, how much do you need to do on a burn guard to get ~15 or so burn stacks to do 5k/s compared to autoattacking once on a hammer rev? If the burn guard is consistently out dps-ing the revenant, does it matter? I'm trying to answer the question, "is condition damage useless in wvw?". If some condition builds consistently (or are able to) match or out-dps many other builds/players, regardless of how much effort it takes, how can the statement that it's cleansed too often/instantly be true? It's probably true though that because of the ramp-up, condition damage is less consistent than power so it's not as reliable. Edited July 23, 2021 by lordmeowalot.8135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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