Is Condition Damage useless in WvW?

[Zikory.6871]

How many people here have actually been in a zerg or blob that was condi in the last 6 months? 

I'd bet most have tested condition builds in a blob of power classes and assume its bad because it isn't well represented on arc. Or the conditions don't stick long enough because of cleanse or people downing to power spikes so damage looks low. 

Conditions aren't common because you'll never get enough pugs or casuals to gear and learn how to play it after 2-3 years of basically the same power meta. A competent guild group would probably kill a lot of groups running condi. Question would be how it stacks up against a equal power comp and afaik, there is only one guild NA that would be qualified to actually answer that. 

[Aeolus.3615]

29 minutes ago, Zikory.6871 said:

How many people here have actually been in a zerg or blob that was condi in the last 6 months? 

I'd bet most have tested condition builds in a blob of power classes and assume its bad because it isn't well represented on arc. Or the conditions don't stick long enough because of cleanse or people downing to power spikes so damage looks low. 

Conditions aren't common because you'll never get enough pugs or casuals to gear and learn how to play it after 2-3 years of basically the same power meta. A competent guild group would probably kill a lot of groups running condi. Question would be how it stacks up against a equal power comp and afaik, there is only one guild NA that would be qualified to actually answer that. 

 

Well mellee is mostrly Reapers with lots of chill and damage, scourges and deamon revs backed up by quite som eFB's and scrappers.

Still they have quite some portion scourges due barriers and permanent boons due the number of boon aplyers... basicly evenry one.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Dawdler.8521]

8 hours ago, lordmeowalot.8135 said:

If the burn guard is consistently out dps-ing the revenant, does it matter?

 

I'm trying to answer the question, "is condition damage useless in wvw?". If some condition builds consistently (or are able to) match or out-dps many other builds/players, regardless of how much effort it takes, how can the statement that it's cleansed too often/instantly be true?

 

It's probably true though that because of the ramp-up, condition damage is less consistent than power so it's not as reliable.

You already have the answer. You literally state it in the last paragraph.

 

No, but actually yes.

[pcgamefreak.5208]

I've been saying it forever now....  The "devs" messed up conditional damage by having so much cleansing and reduction boons.  I have a meta build core Necro that has high conditional damage and players on average receive less than 500 per tick in damage (while they're dropping thousands in power).  You're not going to take down anyone like that.  Condi builds only do high damage in PvE because enemies in PvE don't have all the excessive abilities that make conditions useless.  This is why GW2 is the worst PvP game ever made.  Right now, I'm only legendary farming in WvW, which is why I haven't changed my build but I will eventually move on from pure condi to something else, obviously the something else has to be based on power, that's how one-way-tracked the game is as far as builds and attributes go in player vs player.

 

The question is, how do a core Necro build with power?  Reaper is the best power option....again, you can see how bad the "Devs" are with game design concepts.  I don't like Reaper because it has poor sustain!  Am I forced to play it because pure condi builds don't work?  That's how you drop "fun factor" down to zero.

 

The fastest fix would be to just simply respect the condition attribute.  If a player is stacking all conditional damage and achieve 1600 + on their attribute, there's no reason why the damage per tick can't average 3k.  You can't stack high power if you're stacking high conditions so if somebody's condition attribute is like 1400 and less, then treat it the same way it's treated now...useless.  Power players will argue against this because they wanna continue to rule but there's no argument because you can still cleanse conditions....you can't cleanse power damage.

 

It's a ridiculous design flaw...  Even in PvE, if I'm in Drizzlewood fight a mob and doing a total of 8k damage per second, it will take me a few seconds to take down the mob (20 secs give or take).  A power player can fight the same mob and take them down in less than 5 seconds, sometimes one-hit-killing.  Were's the balance in that?

 

"Gawd"....will the world ever get a Company that will do it right....

 

 

It sucks.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Horace.3184

[pcgamefreak.5208]

Is Condi Builds useless?

 

Depends on what you're trying to achieve.  If you're trying to roam and wanna take out another player, then yes, Condi Builds are useless because GW2 is sadly, all about power, which leaves no room for identity combat.

 

If you're just going to move with your Zerg and Support, then Condi builds can be greatly useful depending on class/build.  For example, a Condi Core Necro can cause skill interrupts, conditions and boon strip from dropping Marks.  Core Necro also has the better sustain by going into Shroud, where you can further add condition pressure.  This helps power players who are charging on the front lines because enemy players are trying to cast skills but get that interrupt and that's all it takes for your Zerg's front line to get the DPS jump on them.

 

The "Devs" do not respect conditional damage like they do power so as a result, you really won't be killing anyone one on one as a Condi.  Too much cleansing and resistance reduce Condi damage to nothing.  It's to the point, I see players walking right into conditions and ignoring the damage while they land HUGE power base damage.  Seriously...  You can drop the Plaguelands Elite skill as a Necro and you'll see enemy players just stand in the middle of it taking no serious damage at all....  FROM AN ELITE SKILL!

 

The "Devs" have killed the Condi Necro class.  The only heart beat left in the class is being Zerg support for power players.  Other than that, I say get on your Willbender, an "OP" class.  Necro is a joke now....  A class that summon minions but in reality, the Necro is a minion class, a minion to serve power players as support.

 

When I finally say good bye to GW2, it'll be for many things but destroying the Necro class will be the number one thing.  The "Devs" made a mess and are trying to make the mess look legit.

[Bunny.9834]

Burning used to be competitive especially if ur a burn guard. 

But ANET wants this unkillable boonball meta. 

[Dawdler.8521]

8 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

The "Devs" have killed the Condi Necro class.  The only heart beat left in the class is being Zerg support for power players.  Other than that, I say get on your Willbender, an "OP" class.  Necro is a joke now....  A class that summon minions but in reality, the Necro is a minion class, a minion to serve power players as support.

(Ignoring the fact harbinger is insanely strong with condi burst on perma quickness)

[Sandzibar.5134]

its ok for roaming.

terrible for fighting boonballs etc.

power is just a better bet I find on average.

[Doo Lally.8594]

Got dumped on by a condi scourge at a shrine last evening. 

 

Took out 2 of us very quickly.

 

Condi obviously OP (or maybe I'm just awful and the pug with me was clearly a pve weekly achiever - hmm). </s>

 

I actually heard myself in downstate saying "Well done that player, good for you."

 

[Eudaimonia.8695]

23 hours ago, Bunny.9834 said:

Burning used to be competitive especially if ur a burn guard. 

But ANET wants this unkillable boonball meta. 

 

It's actually still a solid build if you're facing a zerg/cloud with a lot of pew pewers. In those cases, you'll be top dps in the zerg rather easily. Against organized zergs, which are becoming increasingly rare these days, this build is obviously pretty bad.

 

There are quite a few sleeper builds that are really strong, yet the community doesn't use them. Most players clinge to the META and don't experiment anymore, which is kinda sad.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Roaming with celestial harbinger is very good, I don't usually do full zerg stuff since it's kinda boring. 

[pcgamefreak.5208]

Is Condition Damage useless in WvW?

 

Yes, yes it is...poor game design makes it that way.  You can "nerf" my account some more, hunt me down in wvw, it's the truth "ArenaNet Babies" and Hackers.  Think about it....  GW2 is the only MMORPG that features a blob mess....  Yeah.  The "Devs" tried something different and it failed and there's nothing wrong with that because sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.  The problem is created when "Devs" try to cover up the failure and force what's broken to work.  You had good encounters in World of Warcraft battlegrounds...even if you went down, you went down swinging.  That doesn't exists in GW2's WvW because everything is either Blob over everything or get Blobbed over.  The only other option is to get "ganked" by more than one player roaming or get played with by an "ArenaNet Baby" or Hacker.  There were changes suggested that would have reshaped WvW but the "Devs" are too proud to try them.

- turn long range DPS to CC and "DOT" only, not high damage because players staying in the distance all day isn't pvp...it might as well be hacking.

- either get rid of 'CC' or limit everyone to just one 'CC', rather direct use or indirect use and place a heavy cooldown on it.  Yes you can get rid of it and just add it to siege weapons instead of players, with the exception of long range players who 'CC/DOT' from range. (best option).

- get rid of super speed and "invul" because too many players can just walk away from combat, reset and go attack the Necro again, who can't reset their Life Force (lame).  You want to encourage fighting, not running.

- 'nerf' ranger pets because they can not only heal their pet but they can switch pets, so it's basically having two pets.  On the other hand, Necro minions are too weak and sorry, plus more control over the minions like being able to recall them back would be nice.

- reduce the shared effect of boons greatly, so players can't super blob because of enormous boons.

- along with reducing the shared boon effect, reduce the amount damage siege weapons do as well.  Again, you can always add 'CC' to siege weapons instead of raw damage.

 

Those changes alone (not counting class balancing) would make WvW incredible.  Sadly, that's the stuff the "Devs" are too proud to implement but should have already been a thing.

 

"Typos suck"

Peace

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 minutes ago, Horace.3184 said:

"Typos suck"

Peace

Necro'ing topics sucks too.

But since we're here, outside of straight blob vs blob condi tanks wreck everything in WvW.  People say power burst counters it, but when the condi tanks have just as much engage/disengage and far more sustain...the power dies pretty quick.  

[Dawdler.8521]

 

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

But since we're here, outside of straight blob vs blob condi tanks wreck everything in WvW.  People say power burst counters it, but when the condi tanks have just as much engage/disengage and far more sustain...the power dies pretty quick.  

Except... power burst wreck everything outside of straight 1v1.

And WvWers do love to gank.

2 good power dps can take out a condi tank in seconds - the builds that can hit back against higher numbers almost as fast while being almost as tanky (ie cele) become far more dangerous to the power bursters. Because there is kind of a reason why 9 out of 10 "condi tanks" run cele. Which never is and never have been a real condi tank.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

 

Except... power burst wreck everything outside of straight 1v1.

And WvWers do love to gank.

2 good power dps can take out a condi tank in seconds - the builds that can hit back against higher numbers almost as fast while being almost as tanky (ie cele) become far more dangerous to the power bursters. Because there is kind of a reason why 9 out of 10 "condi tanks" run cele. Which never is and never have been a real condi tank.

I mean can still build a tank with Dire or Trailblazer, doesn't have to be cele.

Maybe it's just the low skill floor of WvW roaming, power doesn't seem to bother me nearly as much as like condi mirage spamming clones, or the burn / slow / random condis from WB (cele or otherwise) or condi zerker.

I'm in T2/T1 NA and I come across a condi build 5x as much as a power one, which annoys me because I also run a condi build so it can lead to some long fights...

[Thomas.2564]

Simple answer, yes. Cause the only condition u can stack some what contiously on almost all classes, is torment. Which is a totally useless conditon now, after nerf a few years back. Which i also stated in a nother post, where I state that full condi harb is total garbage now, do to this specific reason.

Burning is actually the only condition that still dos a fair amoun of dmg. But the classes who can stack an appropiate amount of burning, struggle to provide the additional cover condis, to make it effectiv. Also most cleanses actual focus on burning 1st. 

Prisen, bleed and confusion are basically at this stage, ment to try and keep the already useless torment up for as long as humanly possible. But in order to make this useless condition do any kind of dmg. U would have to able to keep it up 100%. Since even with 20 stacks it still dos significantly less dmg, then just 10 stacks of burning. 

So, if u run into full condi based players. Its safe to assume that they dont really No much about condi specs. And they just hear ignorant ppl crying 'condi builds are so broken' which they are NOT! and havnt been for a looooong time. At least not since they nerfed torment into the ground. 

UNLESS ofc ur playing cele. In which case it has squad to do with ur dps or condi dmg, that u win fights. But to do with the fact ur basically just an unkillable juggernaut, who is just out sustaining his apponent. Instead of actually trying to kill him. 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

36 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I mean can still build a tank with Dire or Trailblazer, doesn't have to be cele.

True but a condi mirage, condi willbender and condi berserker could too.

Do you think most of them do? 

[TheGrimm.5624]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Necro'ing topics sucks too.

 

Agree, this tactic just creates confusion in topics and leads to more misinformation. In WvW it is even worse