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Will Anet ever get rid of Downstate permanently?


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No matter on how you feel about the 'balance' of it, I just think it breaks the pace of the mode. 

 

I never feel good getting a kill from a player who's in a downstate and feel cheap when I get one from the downstate. 

 

For me it slows down the mode and hinders more than helps the experience.

 

What do you think? 

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36 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

what breaks the game is actually how many ress traits/skills are in the game right now, plus the fact all dmg got -33% nerf and downstate is still the same.

 

i don't think downstate itself is a problem.

 

I think that's the problem with having a downstate to begin with. I think it's main purpose is really to ease people into the PvP so it isn't as 'Hardcore' but I think this is hurts the mode more than help. I've never really took the time to learn the downstate abilities or anything, because I've never liked it in PvP. Plus being in a downstate isn't fun for anyone.

 

I don't think it's a live or die situation, I just think the mode would benefit more from removing it. Plus this could make the game easier to balance with 'less' to think about. I don't know though, for me it just doesn't feel right being in PvP.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙂

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26 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Downstate fin, its rally that needs adjusted/nerfed and the revive traits removed from pvp modes, one of many stupid inclusions by anet.

 

I think it's to make PvP a more 'forgiving' experience. Which for me takes the point out of PvP

 

I think removing downstate would increase the speed and competitive nature of the mode. I love getting into PvP for a bit of trash talking and competitive spirit. Because sometimes you just gotta be a kitten 😜 

 

Personally I'd love to see a box you can tick in matchmaking to 'Tick' or 'Untick' downstate to see which truly works better. 

 

It's just my opinion from a consumers perspective.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts though pal 🙂

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5 minutes ago, SirRocket.3516 said:

 

I think it's to make PvP a more 'forgiving' experience. Which for me takes the point out of PvP

 

I think removing downstate would increase the speed and competitive nature of the mode. I love getting into PvP for a bit of trash talking and competitive spirit. Because sometimes you just gotta be a kitten 😜 

 

Personally I'd love to see a box you can tick in matchmaking to 'Tick' or 'Untick' downstate to see which truly works better. 

 

It's just my opinion from a consumers perspective.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts though pal 🙂

I personally would remove it, have said as much many times. In wvw no downstate imo is a huge improvement.

 My comment was something of a compromise.

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6 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

I personally would remove it, have said as much many times. In wvw no downstate imo is a huge improvement.

 My comment was something of a compromise.

Interesting. Yeah I see what you mean now. 

 

But yeah It should just be removed instead of trying to compromise or 'balance' it.

As you've stated yourself has not been balanced well thus far.

 

I hope to see Anet be a bit more brutal with chopping their game up a bit. 

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4 minutes ago, lovemghool.7613 said:

a weekend event to test it out would be nice in pvp. WvW already had it so it shouldnt be hard to implement right?

Yeah I saw they did one, but I missed it unfortunately.

It seems to have been received very well.  

The fact that they're experimenting with it via events is very promising. 

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29 minutes ago, SirRocket.3516 said:

I think that's the problem with having a downstate to begin with. I think it's main purpose is really to ease people into the PvP so it isn't as 'Hardcore' but I think this is hurts the mode more than help. I've never really took the time to learn the downstate abilities or anything, because I've never liked it in PvP. Plus being in a downstate isn't fun for anyone.

 

I don't think it's a live or die situation, I just think the mode would benefit more from removing it. Plus this could make the game easier to balance with 'less' to think about. I don't know though, for me it just doesn't feel right being in PvP.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙂

Have you played the game before feb/2020 patch?

 

downstate wasnt a problem, cuz the dmg was high enough you'd never get a ress in front of 2 enemies cleaving, in fact you're most likely be dead if you even attempted to ress.

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7 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

Have you played the game before feb/2020 patch?

 

downstate wasnt a problem, cuz the dmg was high enough you'd never get a ress in front of 2 enemies cleaving, in fact you're most likely be dead if you even attempted to ress.

I did play it then to be fair. 

 

Haven't played PvP for a little while now, just coming back again to GW2 again. 

 

Just been remembering some issues I've had for a while. Downstate has been one of them.

 

I still just wasn't a fan of it. Maybe more palatable, but personally would prefer it to be removed. 

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59 minutes ago, noobfest.2180 said:

I don’t think there is anything wrong with downstate, I think they just need to nerf some preferential classes res speed to be about 50% of what it currently is.

 

I kinda would love downstate to be a hybrid version of the current rez and gw1 rez scheme.

 

- Theres plenty of useless/non usable racials skills like pray to kormir and alikes, make it a rez that roots caster for 6sec to rez ally. (asurans could have a medic golem 😛 to rez ally for them but would be affeted by CC, could be a racial elite skill)

- Disable rub player back to life 🙂 from fully dead (would need skill for that)

- Nerf healthy rubs, very hard call the bulldozer instead a hammer, make harder for players to rez since we have skills now that help that(at current game there are skill that help downed state players).

Îmagine "Pray to kormir" woudl take normal casting and CD uppping a downed ally, a fully dead would take more time and would put skil in heavier CD form 40 to 60 for example.

Edited: A finisheld target would force players to use kormir skill or that player would have to  respawn.

 

Imo this should be done even in pve 🙂

But i tend to forget that both pvp and pve players are 7 damage skills  and 1 heal or GTFO build. 😛

 

Edited by Aeolus.3615
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Idk if we are speaking purely of the mini-seasons, or pvp as a whole. For WvW I definitely like no downstate. But for conquest, I feel it’s an important part of the gameplay itself. It forces you to make tactical decisions with your team. That said, the current rez speed, traits, and skills for rezzing are out did hand and make gameplay extremely unfun (I’m looking at you scourge). Maybe look to balance out the downstate to make it more consistent across all classes, but that sounds like more trouble than ANET can handle (pets on ranger is one that comes to mind that’s almost impossible to balance to other classes).

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55 minutes ago, Shrapnel.7249 said:

Idk if we are speaking purely of the mini-seasons, or pvp as a whole. For WvW I definitely like no downstate. But for conquest, I feel it’s an important part of the gameplay itself. It forces you to make tactical decisions with your team. That said, the current rez speed, traits, and skills for rezzing are out did hand and make gameplay extremely unfun (I’m looking at you scourge). Maybe look to balance out the downstate to make it more consistent across all classes, but that sounds like more trouble than ANET can handle (pets on ranger is one that comes to mind that’s almost impossible to balance to other classes).

The Rez speed on blood wells is 1% (The lowest in the game) That’s not whats responsible for their capacity to Rez effectively.

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Removing the downed state would be a mistake, but it still needs adjustment. 

These are the changes that I believe would do the trick:

 

  1. In competitive content, rallies, revives and finishing should always happen one player at a time, unless done by an elite skill with a long recharge. Meaning the limit of players that can revive an ally would be changed from 5 to 1, and all skills that can revive more than 1 player that are not elite should be reduced to 1 player.
  2. Downed skills should never be able to self-heal, and should be more standardized:
    1. Player equipment, traits and other external bonuses would be ignored while downed. Downed players would get a fixed set of attributes adjusted for downed state that would make it faster to finish the enemy than attacking them to death. 
    2. Skill 1 should be able to hit only 1 enemy at a time, and just do damage and non-damage conditions.
    3. Skill 2 should do a damage condition and interrupt up to 5 enemies in melee range.
    4. Skill 3 should allow the downed character to move a short distance. Or be removed and allow the character to crawl while downed, with a speed tied to downed health. The lower the health, the slower the crawl. 
    5. When in combat or in competitive modes, skill 4 should work faster only when an ally is also reviving you instead healing more and more over time. The increased healing over time should only be gained when there's no more enemies nearby or outside competitive modes. NPC allies in all story instances should always try to revive players if they are not busy with a specific story task, at least when the character gets under 33% downed health.
  3. The number of times one can go downed before downed penalty defeats you instantly should be changed from 4 to 3 in competitive modes.  So instead gray, yellow and red downed penalty icons, you'd see just the yellow one and the red one.
  4. Healing power should never increase reviving speed directly or indirectly. It doesn't affect the contextual [Resurrect] skill you do when you revive with F, but there's several healing skills that do affect downed allies that are affected. That should stop happening, and never happen again.
  5. There should be more finisher skills. Core skill sets are missing a bunch of healing and elite skills. Many of those 'missing' elite slots would be perfect for this.  For example:
    • Guardian could get a "Staff of Command" spirit weapon that will finish the target if they are downed.
    • Engineer could get a "Rocket Punch" elite that shoots an unblockable ranged CC to the enemy, with a toolbelt skill that basically works like the fake hand from the Martian leader in marks attacks, crawling to the enemy, and planting a flag on their chest. 
    • Ranger could get a signet that increases damage to barrier for you and your pet as the passive effect, and signals your pet to damage the target for the active, finishing them if the strike downs them.
    • Elementalist could get a powerful arcane elite that builds up for a few seconds before releasing a massive arcane beam that defeats enemies downed by it.
    • Mesmers could get an elite phantasm that delivers a flurry of unarmed melee strikes, and that will finish the enemy with the last strike if they are downed.
    • Necromancers could get an elite well that damages downed enemies and heals downed allies.

 

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10 minutes ago, MithranArkanere.8957 said:

Removing the downed state would be a mistake, but it still needs adjustment. 

These are the changes that I believe would do the trick:

 

  1. In competitive content, rallies, revives and finishing should always happen one player at a time, unless done by an elite skill with a long recharge. Meaning the limit of players that can revive an ally would be changed from 5 to 1, and all skills that can revive more than 1 player that are not elite should be reduced to 1 player.
  2. Downed skills should never be able to self-heal, and should be more standardized:
    1. Player equipment, traits and other external bonuses would be ignored while downed. Downed players would get a fixed set of attributes adjusted for downed state that would make it faster to finish the enemy than attacking them to death. 
    2. Skill 1 should be able to hit only 1 enemy at a time, and just do damage and non-damage conditions.
    3. Skill 2 should do a damage condition and interrupt up to 5 enemies in melee range.
    4. Skill 3 should allow the downed character to move a short distance. Or be removed and allow the character to crawl while downed, with a speed tied to downed health. The lower the health, the slower the crawl. 
    5. When in combat or in competitive modes, skill 4 should work faster only when an ally is also reviving you instead healing more and more over time. The increased healing over time should only be gained when there's no more enemies nearby or outside competitive modes. NPC allies in all story instances should always try to revive players if they are not busy with a specific story task, at least when the character gets under 33% downed health.
  3. The number of times one can go downed before downed penalty defeats you instantly should be changed from 4 to 3 in competitive modes.  So instead gray, yellow and red downed penalty icons, you'd see just the yellow one and the red one.
  4. Healing power should never increase reviving speed directly or indirectly. It doesn't affect the contextual [Resurrect] skill you do when you revive with F, but there's several healing skills that do affect downed allies that are affected. That should stop happening, and never happen again.
  5. There should be more finisher skills. Core skill sets are missing a bunch of healing and elite skills. Many of those 'missing' elite slots would be perfect for this.  For example:
    • Guardian could get a "Staff of Command" spirit weapon that will finish the target if they are downed.
    • Engineer could get a "Rocket Punch" elite that shoots an unblockable ranged CC to the enemy, with a toolbelt skill that basically works like the fake hand from the Martian leader in marks attacks, crawling to the enemy, and planting a flag on their chest. 
    • Ranger could get a signet that increases damage to barrier for you and your pet as the passive effect, and signals your pet to damage the target for the active, finishing them if the strike downs them.
    • Elementalist could get a powerful arcane elite that builds up for a few seconds before releasing a massive arcane beam that defeats enemies downed by it.
    • Mesmers could get an elite phantasm that delivers a flurry of unarmed melee strikes, and that will finish the enemy with the last strike if they are downed.
    • Necromancers could get an elite well that damages downed enemies and heals downed allies.

 

Yoooo, you've brought your notes haha

 

Those are interesting points. It'd be interesting to see.

I think you're points on competitive should be across the board. Maybe not WvW but SPvP for sure. 

 

When I talk about PvP I should be clear I'm mainly thinking about SPvP the more tightly confined fighting.

 

Thanks for the reply pal 🙂

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5 hours ago, SirRocket.3516 said:

I did play it then to be fair. 

 

Haven't played PvP for a little while now, just coming back again to GW2 again. 

 

Just been remembering some issues I've had for a while. Downstate has been one of them.

 

I still just wasn't a fan of it. Maybe more palatable, but personally would prefer it to be removed. 

I'd certainly give it a try, like no downstate mini season and no duo q mini season, that would gather some valuable community feedback

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Downstate as a concept is good. In principal it introduces some much needed decision making and tactical play.

 

If you're in a 2v2, and both sides have 1 go into down state simultaneously, it takes some good quick-thinking to assess whether you should go for the stomp, try to cleave, or go for the rez, and that can be won or lost by making the right/wrong decision, or even by making the right decision just 0.1s faster/slower than the other guy.

 

The only problem with rezzing at the moment is that it is possible to rez a team-mate in the face of 3+ enemies all trying to cleave it out, which is ridiculous. Even 1 person cleaving should be sufficient to deny a rez. You should only really be able to rez if the enemy has been driven away, put into downstate, CC'd, etc.

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16 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Downstate as a concept is good. In principal it introduces some much needed decision making and tactical play.

 

If you're in a 2v2, and both sides have 1 go into down state simultaneously, it takes some good quick-thinking to assess whether you should go for the stomp, try to cleave, or go for the rez, and that can be won or lost by making the right/wrong decision, or even by making the right decision just 0.1s faster/slower than the other guy.

 

The only problem with rezzing at the moment is that it is possible to rez a team-mate in the face of 3+ enemies all trying to cleave it out, which is ridiculous. Even 1 person cleaving should be sufficient to deny a rez. You should only really be able to rez if the enemy has been driven away, put into downstate, CC'd, etc.

No, downstate is terrible.

 

Even worse having different skills which are stronger than others.

 

It needs to be removed from spvp...

 

Might be ok at best in wvw, but nah....

 

It needs to go.

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I'm ok with them removing downstate permanently in competitive modes.

But only if they add downstate to all humanoid enemies in PvE, just like the Toxic Alliance Sylvari had.
Even if it's a 30% chance to trigger when you fell an enemy.
 
I want to use my finishers and if they go bye bye in competitive modes then let me use them in PvE.

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