EOD Stream on July 27 has to say something about RAIDS.

[Nafets.1238]

It's been more than 2 years. The casuals got more content that they can handle in the past 2 years (DRMs, Strike Missions) that not even they play.

It's literally the deciding factor in buying the expansion. No reason to go get the new elite specs if there's no new content to play.

[Dawdler.8521]

Is the title a statement of fact or a question? It doesnt really has to.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[Flapjackson.1596]

I certainly hope it discusses development of a new wing along with updates to existing content. Harder difficulty tiers for experienced players, easier tiers for new raiders, and new content for everyone to experience together would go a long way for making the mode more popular.

[Raknar.4735]

*Your deciding factor in buying the expansion.

 

I'd rather have ANet spend resources on something else.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Gotejjeken.1267]

8 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

*Your deciding factor in buying the expansion.

 

I'd rather have ANet spend resources on something else.

 

Yeah I'd rather them work on WvW over raids.  

[Raknar.4735]

1 minute ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Yeah I'd rather them work on WvW over raids.  

 

Yep, that'd be cool. Let's hope they really ment it when they called WvW a cornerstone in one of their recent blogs.

[Infusion.7149]

To be realistic I think it is more likely that the technology being tested for Dragonstorm, Forging Steel, and Twisted Marionette is for a reason and that is to make scaling instances that are more mechanic heavy and less dependent on build choices so people can "play how they want" along with public instances to make them more accessible. Notably Forging Steel difficulty scales exponentially if you turn on Powerful Foes and need to stop the tank from being destroyed.
In addition, I believe that future instancing would not be as linear as raids are currently. The 5g instance opener phenomenon surely would be noticed by Arenanet.

Alliances and competitive balance would do far more for this game than raids would , plus if implemented similar to GW1 would bridge the PvE + PVP/WVW gap. WvW is more unique than any PvE content when you compare to similar offerings: PvE content doesn't have the same longevity because there's only so much repeatability before it becomes stale. If PvP matchmaking and balance were better then the action combat system is also more conducive to esports given you don't need to grind PvE to be on an even footing.

In addition, Alliances were promised for longer than the last raid wing (wing 7) which was launched in June 2019. The last time competitive modes overall had a feature overhaul update was 2017 when Skirmish tracks were added with the "Competitive Feature Pack". While the warclaw was added in 2019 and swiss in PvP ATs as well in 2020, the warclaw has had severe issues at its inception and still has problems with regards to people using it to glitch maps. Most recently the change to EoTM arena provided some support for players wishing to GvG rather than fight for or over structures , whereas 15v15 is a projected feature that hasn't been delivered on for PvP yet.

If you look at past dev comments, you would know strikes were supposed to be the bridge to raids. Incidentally that is when they made strikes (after W7). So Strike missions  are not the casual content you claim them to be.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring
Strike missions are a way for us to look back and go, ‘Okay, we have the group that raids, and we have a group that says raids are either stigmatised, too difficult, there’s jerks in there who are elitist.’ There’s all these things, and we’d say, ‘No, no, no, we can show you a path to get to this content.’ We can show you the way that you can get better – that you can experience things that you didn’t necessarily think possible either because of preconceptions, or because of lack of time, availability, those types of things.

See also
 

• Quote

   

  • Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.
  • Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.

   

   

 

and
https://www.pcgamesn.com/mmo-raids
“The core players of the game had spent most of their time in a five-player environments through [in-game content like] Dungeons and Fractals, and we wanted to ensure that the raid experience was uniquely different with a larger group size,” she says. “That definitely worked, but it came with the disadvantage that players suddenly needed to add five more players to their core Fractal group if they wanted to raid. It was an added challenge to players that for some created a barrier to entry.”

Edited July 20, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Firebeard.1746]

46 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

I certainly hope it discusses development of a new wing along with updates to existing content. Harder difficulty tiers for experienced players, easier tiers for new raiders, and new content for everyone to experience together would go a long way for making the mode more popular.

Agreed. Even when i played WoW I would occaisionally step into lower tier raids just to help out. Not everyone wants to play top skill level all the time. Also growing the player base and community in positive ways is exactly what it needs to be a viable game mode.
 

8 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

To be realistic I think it is more likely that the technology being tested for Dragonstorm, Forging Steel, and Twisted Marionette is for a reason and that is to make scaling instances that are more mechanic heavy and less dependent on build choices so people can "play how they want" along with public instances to make them more accessible. Notably Forging Steel difficulty scales exponentially if you turn on Powerful Foes and need to stop the tank from being destroyed.
In addition, I believe that future instancing would not be as linear as raids are currently. The 5g instance opener phenomenon surely would be noticed by Arenanet.

Alliances and competitive balance would do far more for this game than raids would , plus if implemented similar to GW1 would bridge the PvE + PVP/WVW gap. WvW is more unique than any PvE content when you compare to similar offerings: PvE content doesn't have the same longevity because there's only so much repeatability before it becomes stale. If PvP matchmaking and balance were better then the action combat system is also more conducive to esports given you don't need to grind PvE to be on an even footing.

In addition, Alliances were promised for longer than the last raid wing (wing 7) which was launched in June 2019. The last time competitive modes overall had a feature overhaul update was 2017 when Skirmish tracks were added with the "Competitive Feature Pack". While the warclaw was added in 2019 and swiss in PvP ATs as well in 2020, the warclaw has had severe issues at its inception and still has problems with regards to people using it to glitch maps. Most recently the change to EoTM arena provided some support for players wishing to GvG rather than fight for or over structures , whereas 15v15 is a projected feature hasn't been delivered on for PvP yet.

If you look at past dev comments, you would know strikes were supposed to be the bridge to raids. Incidentally that is when they made strikes (after W7). So Strike missions  are not the casual content you claim them to be.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring
Strike missions are a way for us to look back and go, ‘Okay, we have the group that raids, and we have a group that says raids are either stigmatised, too difficult, there’s jerks in there who are elitist.’ There’s all these things, and we’d say, ‘No, no, no, we can show you a path to get to this content.’ We can show you the way that you can get better – that you can experience things that you didn’t necessarily think possible either because of preconceptions, or because of lack of time, availability, those types of things.

Assuming they don't change anything about interactions in raids and/or difficulty level 100% agree with this.

[Telgum.6071]

- New Raids & Fractals (I think this has been confirmed?)

- New elite specializations

- WvW Allainces + balance changes

- EoD exclusive new feature (like glider or mounts)

- Legendary trinkets for every game mode

- Deep explanation about the way forward even beyond the expansion

 

Those are my expectations for the stream, but I will agree with the people above my comment: I really doubt new raids are a deciding factor. They are hard to get started with and become repetitive really fast. IMO fractals or even new and harder strike missions would be more decisive in the long run. 

 

Not to mention WvW and PvP. There are tons of people who primarily main those modes, and I doubt new xpecs are a deciding factor for many of them if those game modes don't start getting attention.

 

PS. "The casuals". That's a mean comment. To me, those who see new raids as a deciding factor are the casuals, forever stuck on that repetitive PvE content where nothing unexpected happens, to the point of even making new accounts to replay the same thing twice a week. Step by WvW any day and prove you are not another "casual".

Edited July 20, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[jwaz.1908]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Yeah I'd rather them work on WvW over raids.  

Alliances have been confirmed to launch before EoD, so it's safe to say that WvW is and will be worked on separately of the expansion... with that in mind I agree with OP that EoD should get at least one new raid wing, even though I personally don't participate in such content.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

"Welcome to our EoD stream. But first a word about our sponsor RAIDShadowle.." 

[radda.8920]

to go back to cantha, without having the return of urgoz and the deep in the form of a raid or an elite mission would be  a disgrace

 

 all the rest of the content will be 90% casual, I don't see why hm players would still be left out.

Edited July 21, 2021 by radda.8920

[Xanadrine.4352]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Yeah I'd rather them work on WvW over raids.  

Why cant we have both? I dont get this mentality. A healthy game has a good amount of content for everyone. I enjoy wvw I enjoy raids, I enjoy open world. To sacrifice any game mode is the sign of an unhealthy game. If your developers are not diverse enough to develop for all game modes then hire ones that are. Say what you want about wow but they had all the player types covered, anything you wanted to do you could, and it was kept updated. Dont stifle game modes thats what chases players off.

 

Variety is the spice of life after all.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Why cant we have both? I dont get this mentality. A healthy game has a good amount of content for everyone. I enjoy wvw I enjoy raids, I enjoy open world. To sacrifice any game mode is the sign of an unhealthy game. If your developers are not diverse enough to develop for all game modes then hire ones that are. Say what you want about wow but they had all the player types covered, anything you wanted to do you could, and it was kept updated. Dont stifle game modes thats what chases players off.

 

Variety is the spice of life after all.

 

Well considering WvW has stagnated for close to 6 years now, I don't think the devs are great at working on multiple content types at once.

[radda.8920]

1 minute ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Well considering WvW has stagnated for close to 6 years now, I don't think the devs are great at working on multiple content types at once.

 

Anyway i don't see the connection, the developers specializing in pvp content do not take part in the creation of the raids..

 

therefore taking care of the WVW will not prevent the creation of new raids.

[Xanadrine.4352]

1 minute ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Well considering WvW has stagnated for close to 6 years now, I don't think the devs are great at working on multiple content types at once.

What a shame, im hopeful at least we get alliances. When i quit in 2019 they announced them as coming soon. Its 2021 and they are not even close to becoming a reality. Honestly this game has the potential to do so much better, but they need to take in the whole playerbase not just the cash shop buyers. I rather pay 5 or 10 dollars a month to get meaningful content drops ingame, regular updates. 

[Xanadrine.4352]

2 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

 

Anyway i don't see the connection, the developers specializing in pvp content do not take part in the creation of the raids..

 

therefore taking care of the WVW will not prevent the creation of new raids.

Umm I think the connection is they are one and the same. And they cant or wont treat the game modes equally 

[radda.8920]

Just now, Zuldari.3940 said:

Umm I think the connection is they are one and the same. And they cant or wont treat the game modes equally 

 

I don't think so, in fact the problem is mainly that the team that took care of the raids totally left arena after POF.

 

So if there is new HM content, they have to hire other qualified people or it won't happen.

[Xanadrine.4352]

Just now, radda.8920 said:

 

I don't think so, in fact the problem is mainly that the team that took care of the raids totally left arena after POF.

 

So if there is new HM content, they have to hire other qualified people or it won't happen.

You have a link for that, because if thats the case I feel an exodus coming on.

[radda.8920]

7 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

You have a link for that, because if thats the case I feel an exodus coming on.

No it goes back so far, I don't know where to look for it but it was an article just after the massive layoffs of a few years ago.

 

it specified who had gone and in the employees concerned, there was the creator of the jumping puzzle and the designers of the raids.Maybe not all but the majority.

At the same time, it is normal, they were qualified for this content. So if arena decides to shut it down, they didn't have much to do....

it's sad, they had done a wonderful job.

I think the source should be found by looking for articles that date from the arena reorganization period

Edited July 21, 2021 by radda.8920

[radda.8920]

I found a list on reddit

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/autnqg/list_of_laid_off_devs_lets_keep_this_updated/

Edited July 21, 2021 by radda.8920

[Xanadrine.4352]

21 minutes ago, radda.8920 said:

I found a list on reddit

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/autnqg/list_of_laid_off_devs_lets_keep_this_updated/

I see. Okay Even though you dont play wow everyone esp game companies should read this. It was from one of the original wow developers he just posted this on the 13th of july. And it holds true for all games. game companies better take note because your playerbase are not that delighted with your products. having no other options to play does not make your game healthy. In this twitter feed mark kern talks about how come FF turned around and wow is sinking. If you are a gamer its worth a read from an old game developer who says that monetization over innovation has ruined AAA gaming for the players. The point is a healthy game needs healthy game modes.

 

 

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1414952816188264460

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[radda.8920]

8 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

I see. Okay Even though you dont play wow everyone esp game companies should read this. It was from one of the original wow developers he just posted this on the 13th of july. And it holds true for all games. game companies better take note because your playerbase are not that delighted with your products. having no other options to play does not make your game healthy. In this twitter feed mark kern talks about how come FF turned around and wow is sinking. If you are a gamer its worth a read from an old game developer who says that monetization over innovation has ruined AAA gaming for the players. 

 

 

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1414952816188264460

 

 

 

 you don't have to convince me, I totally agree with you a quality game is a game that varies the types of content to suit many types of players.

If they just base them on which players give them the most money, they scare away the  other categories and don't attract new players.

This is the reason why gw2 has stagnated and it will never become a masterpiece while it had insane potential.I recall that gw1 was a monumental pvp game and on gw2 pvp has been brain dead for years...

 

basically they made good investments in the short term but catastrophic in the long term.

Edited July 21, 2021 by radda.8920

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

I find it ironic that the OP talks about content no one plays... when the whole reason why Anet stopped making raids was because so few people played them that it wasn't justifiable to keep making them.

 

The whole point of Strikes was to serve as raid primers, content to get the rest of the playerbase into a raid mindset. But the problem with Strikes is that the vast majority of people who don't do raids don't do them not because they don't know how, or couldn't have learned, but rather because they simply don't want to do that kind of content in the first place. Strikes were fundamentally flawed because they assumed the problem was ignorance, when it was really apathy.

 

You can't change player apathy to that kind of content, so most people will never get into raids. So raids will always remain little developed since so few people play them its hard to justify making them except once every 3-4 years.

[Rasimir.6239]

I have to admit I really don't care whether they add new raids or not. I used to be a heavy raider in previous MMOs, but that was a decade and more ago. Today I have neither the luxury nor any interest in devoting a fixed number of hours/nights each and every week to that kind of content, so I rarely participate in raids in this game, and only when friends ask me to join.

 

I know many of us are conditioned to raids being "THE endgame" by other games where raids are your only avenue to top-tier equipment, but I find that GW2 attracts many players like me simply because in this game you can play any content you enjoy without being gated from maximizing your characters.

 

Raids are an important part of the game for people that enjoy that kind of content, but so is WvW, sPvP, storyline, map exploration, achievement hunting, world bosses, map metas, elite specs, and much more. I know I would be severely disappointed if I found out EoD won't bring lots of new, detailed maps to explore, and I can understand people that would be just as disappointed if there were no new instanced group content added, but in the end I think it's the mix of different content that will make or break EoD, and not the omission of any one narrowly focussed kind of content, be it raids or anything else you like.