EOD Stream on July 27 has to say something about RAIDS.

[Fangoth.4503]

2 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

If the CMs add raid-level difficulty, why is that not enough for you? It sounded like they were trying to appease everyone. I mean mythic WoW raiders don't complain that they get harder versions of the same bosses more casual players do....

because raid are easy and in that case it's reducing the difficulty by a lot. raid have CM, strikes CMs don't have a CM version to it

[yann.1946]

6 minutes ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

strikes is too hard for the average player and too easy for raiders at best gonna be a source of complaint from most players and an afk gold farm on the raider side
They would have been better off doing a dj + a raid to please both sides or to do one but that can be in 2 difficulty rather than an intermediate one that annoy most the player base

You can not really make these claims without knowing how difficult the cms will be.

[Fangoth.4503]

10 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

You can not really make these claims without knowing how difficult the cms will be.

well it's named strikes and not raids for a reason

Edited July 27, 2021 by Fangoth.4503

[Firebeard.1746]

30 minutes ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

because raid are easy and in that case it's reducing the difficulty by a lot. raid have CM, strikes CMs don't have a CM version to it

You haven't seen the system at all -> They could have multiple CMs unlike current raids that to my knowledge only have 1. You haven't seen the system and are already judging it. O well. It just proves other things I've mentioned about the raid community at large. Like no matter what anet does, you won't be happy.

Also you're clearly complaining about raids, so just doing more raids obviously would have been a bad choice XD. Casuals would have been mad about more exclusive content, hardcore raiders would have been mad about more of the same.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Fangoth.4503]

15 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

You haven't seen the system at all -> They could have multiple CMs unlike current raids that to my knowledge only have 1. You haven't seen the system and are already judging it. O well. It just proves other things I've mentioned about the raid community at large. Like no matter what anet does, you won't be happy.

Also you're clearly complaining about raids, so just doing more raids obviously would have been a bad choice XD. Casuals would have been mad about more exclusive content, hardcore raiders would have been mad about more of the same.

Oh the thing we've seen it and so far it goes from shiverpeak to cold war. each of them are dead easy so yeah a downgrade.

why would raider be unhappy if there is a new raid lol? atm they are unhappy because instead of making a raid they waste their time developping a low quality encounter and this time would have been better spent on either a proper raid or some personal story/world boss (if they goal is to please the majority of player).

Edited July 27, 2021 by Fangoth.4503

[Ayrilana.1396]

1 hour ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

strikes is too hard for the average player and too easy for raiders at best gonna be a source of complaint from most players and an afk gold farm on the raider side
They would have been better off doing a dj + a raid to please both sides or to do one but that can be in 2 difficulty rather than an intermediate one that annoy most the player base

Well the rewards would certainly be better. I’d just prefer there content designed specifically for those that want challenging content, such as raids, rather than it be an afterthought through a CM toggle. 

[Linken.6345]

I like that they took suggestions from the forum.

 

We have said take story missions and make them harder for us raiders so you can reuse assets for quite awhile

[mindcircus.1506]

2 hours ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

Oh the thing we've seen it and so far it goes from shiverpeak to cold war. each of them are dead easy so yeah a downgrade.

why would raider be unhappy if there is a new raid lol? atm they are unhappy because instead of making a raid they waste their time developping a low quality encounter and this time would have been better spent on either a proper raid or some personal story/world boss (if they goal is to please the majority of player).

Whisper of Jormag is objectively more difficult than Mursaat Overseer.

On Full CM, Forging Steel is objectively more difficult than Escort.

[Fangoth.4503]

5 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Whisper of Jormag is objectively more difficult than Mursaat Overseer.

On Full CM, Forging Steel is objectively more difficult than Escort.

 

Except it is not, both have no mechs. Same goes for escort/full CM FS which I didn't see any difference between CM and non CM. They are just longer by design not by difficulty

Edited July 28, 2021 by Fangoth.4503

[yann.1946]

9 hours ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

well it's named strikes and not raids for a reason

THis is the same silly reasoning people used to judge raids before having done them.

Im not saying you should assume that they will be a decent difficulty.

But assuming that it will absolutely be a dissapointment without any more context is equally ridicilous.

[yann.1946]

8 hours ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

You haven't seen the system at all -> They could have multiple CMs unlike current raids that to my knowledge only have 1. You haven't seen the system and are already judging it. O well. It just proves other things I've mentioned about the raid community at large. Like no matter what anet does, you won't be happy.

Also you're clearly complaining about raids, so just doing more raids obviously would have been a bad choice XD. Casuals would have been mad about more exclusive content, hardcore raiders would have been mad about more of the same.

One persons reaction does not prove anything about the community at large. (even the few that will be undoubtedly vocal on reddit etc.)

That is just bs reasoning.

[Fangoth.4503]

3 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

THis is the same silly reasoning people used to judge raids before having done them.

Im not saying you should assume that they will be a decent difficulty.

But assuming that it will absolutely be a dissapointment without any more context is equally ridicilous.

nah it's the labelling defined by devs:

5 man content
-Dungeon: barely involve no skill
-Fractal: content that transition fron no skill to actual descent gameplay requirements

10man content:
-strikes: close to no skill requirement and last 2 are skipped as they are just terrible
-raid: close to no skill requirement to actual descent gameplay requirements

Last time I was thinking strike had actual potential they release forging steel followed by cold war and both are skipped by the so called raiders.
I'm not gonna buy an xpac on illusions and the possibility of them doing something good when for the last year it was disapointement after disapointment,they need to make their product selleable first

[Sigmoid.7082]

I'm looking forward to the CMs having some form of unique rewards and then people complaining they are too hard and it's unfair they can't get said reward doing non-CM. 

[yann.1946]

1 hour ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

nah it's the labelling defined by devs:

5 man content
-Dungeon: barely involve no skill
-Fractal: content that transition fron no skill to actual descent gameplay requirements

10man content:
-strikes: close to no skill requirement and last 2 are skipped as they are just terrible
-raid: close to no skill requirement to actual descent gameplay requirements

 

Cms can make it extremely difficult. Thats the point your missing.

Quote

Last time I was thinking strike had actual potential they release forging steel followed by cold war and both are skipped by the so called raiders.
I'm not gonna buy an xpac on illusions and the possibility of them doing something good when for the last year it was disapointement after disapointment,they need to make their product selleable first

I'm not saying you have to buy/preorder the expac. Just that you should not assume that the cms will not be difficult. 

[Fangoth.4503]

39 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

Cms can make it extremely difficult. Thats the point your missing.

I'm not saying you have to buy/preorder the expac. Just that you should not assume that the cms will not be difficult. 

 

Can is the key word, you're assuming they'll do a good job about it which is unlikely to happen especially when naming the content to the bad one. If you believe you'll get a dhuum cm out of that or soth alike just be ready to be disapointed, not gonna happen.
Would have been better to do an actual raid with 1 dead easy boss and say hey guys there is a new raid but no worries people there is an easy encounter. or just do the version with no mech nor loot for lore purposes. Also 5 encounter mean barely more than a wing which is ridiculously low quantity-wise
 

[yann.1946]

25 minutes ago, Fangoth.4503 said:

 

Can is the key word, you're assuming they'll do a good job about it which is unlikely to happen especially when naming the content to the bad one. If you believe you'll get a dhuum cm out of that or soth alike just be ready to be disapointed, not gonna happen.
Would have been better to do an actual raid with 1 dead easy boss and say hey guys there is a new raid but no worries people there is an easy encounter. or just do the version with no mech nor loot for lore purposes. Also 5 encounter mean barely more than a wing which is ridiculously low quantity-wise
 

I'm not assuming anything. I'm purposely saying not to assume anything yet. 

 

The only thing we can say for certain after the announcement is that they are still having the raid community in mind that's all

[yukarishura.4790]

On 7/20/2021 at 10:47 PM, Nafets.1238 said:

It's been more than 2 years. The casuals got more content that they can handle in the past 2 years (DRMs, Strike Missions) that not even they play.

It's literally the deciding factor in buying the expansion. No reason to go get the new elite specs if there's no new content to play.

I agree, so far they only mentioned CM strikes, which is a bad replacement for raids. I am not buying the expansion unless they announce a raid.

[Blaeys.3102]

There are better ways to bring difficult content into the game than with raiding.

 

As others have said, Strikes, if they have different difficultly levels (which it sounds like they are doing) seem like the best of both worlds - encounters without trash mobs that do not gate story or content from more casual players or deny others of the challenge - and that reward people who invest time into learning the more difficult fights. 

 

Ive been very vocal from the beginning that raids as they were first introduced are unsustainable in GW2 - a stance I stand behind.  It is time to retire the idea of raiding in the game and focus on game modes that do fit with the GW2 model. That doesnt mean forgoing difficulty, just implementing it in a way that doesnt require as big a developer resources, improving the ROI and justifying a more appealing release schedule. 

[ButterPeanut.9746]

There is huge potential in the Strike CMs, but it's really going to come down to the variety in the difficulty. Not every single CM needs to be like Dhuum CM, but a subset of them should be. If there is a variety in difficultly (i.e. some more like maybe VG/Gor, some more like Largos, some more like a Raid CM level), then IMO they could be really good.

 

Yes the downside of strike CMs is that you miss out on the part of raids that related to environment, encounter to encounter traversal, exploration, etc. But IMO those are what take a raid from like a 95% -> 100%. 

 

But the possible upside of strike CMs (again assuming there is some moderate difficulty and some variety in that difficulty), is that they can actually make them on a reasonable schedule. 5 at LAUNCH of EoD and the possibility of more with every story patch.

 

Additionally, some quality of life things need to come, some of which they already said are coming:

1. Rewards restructure for Strikes (they said this is happening)

2. A new "hub" for strikes, or just put a strike portal in the LA Aerodrome

3. What is the strike CM lockout going to be? Daily? Weekly? 

Edited July 28, 2021 by ButterPeanut.9746

[Raizel.1839]

No it hasn't.

Raids are dead and no new wing will see the light. If months of silence weren't enough to make you understand that simple fact...

[Shadowmoon.7986]

9 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

I'm not assuming anything. I'm purposely saying not to assume anything yet. 

 

The only thing we can say for certain after the announcement is that they are still having the raid community in mind that's all

Under that logic they still had the wvw comunity in mind during the IBS reveal. Sorry this company has a history, and unfortunately it is spinning gold into brass.

[yann.1946]

37 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Under that logic they still had the wvw comunity in mind during the IBS reveal. Sorry this company has a history, and unfortunately it is spinning gold into brass.

Did they mention the WvW community during the IBS reveal?

Because i can not remember that at all.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

Did they mention the WvW community during the IBS reveal?

Because i can not remember that at all.

I think they did mention alliances then.

[Raknar.4735]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I think they did mention alliances then.

 

Yeah, MZ did mention them during the reveal. He just called it World Restructuring.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Icebrood_Saga_announcement

 

In a interview shortly after that, he also mentioned that swiss for PvP had to be done first, before they could continue working on Alliances, as work on the swiss system would be part of World Restructuring.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring