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Since the legendary is derived from the demon prince Ipos in the real Ars Goetia (or at least as real of demonology can get),

I think it's supposed to have Latin pronunciation.

 

I pronounce the i like the ea in eat and the pos like in imposter.

I don't know a lot about Latin, but my pronunciation should be closer to it than "eye pose"

 

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28 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Since the legendary is derived from the demon prince Ipos in the real Ars Goetia (or at least as real of demonology can get), I think it's supposed to have Latin pronunciation.

 

It's Greek, not Latin.

  

57 minutes ago, Parasite.5389 said:

EE-pos

 

This. 👍

 

Edited by Ashantara.8731
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19 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I pronounce the i like the ea in eat and the pos like in imposter.

I don't know a lot about Latin, but my pronunciation should be closer to it than "eye pose"

 

 

If it has a latin pronunciation, than your pronunciation is correct.

The "i" would then be pronounced like the german "i", which sounds pretty much like the "ee" in "see" or the "ea" in "sea".

 

On the other hand the english wikipedia has other examples of the name, which implify you could also pronounce it "Eye-pos".

Ipos - Wikipedia

Other spellings: Aiperos, Ayperos, Ayporos, Ipes.

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I've been saying it "I poss", but I'm dyslexic and for a long time I thought subtle was two different words, one said 'suttle' and with the accurate meaning and one 'sub-tell' and meaning ethereal or super-natural so I'm probably not a good source. 😆

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1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Aiperos = eye-perross

Ipos = Ee-poss

 

Told you it's Greek.

 

As for English pronunciations: they (especially Americans) always pronounce foreign names incorrectly as if they were English names. It's terrible. Be it Polish, German, Latin, Greek, [...], even Spanish (with so many Hispanics and Latinos present in their country, it is quite an embarrassment that they are not even willing to try to pronounce their names correctly - not even close). It's also a scandal in my eyes how Norn (i.e., Norse, Skandinavian and German) names are mispronounced in Guild Wars (every single one of them - quite ignorant).

 

That stuff always bothers me. If you're gonna borrow from other cultures, take the time to do it properly. Otherwise your vast array of ethnicities or cultures or races or whatever just boils down to the usual, where they're all slightly different flavours of American.

 

The thing that grates most is how (especially Americans) somehow turn the plosive G into a fricative J with Greek words: hearing Americans shout ay-jis in DotA used to hurt me inside.

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1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Told you it's Greek.

 

No you didn't, your posting went online literally the same moment mine did.

 

Quote

foreign names [...] ignorant

 

My name (my real name, not the nickname here) is greek in its origin, but has like a dozen different pronunciations across several languages. I wouldn't call that ignorant.

 

Edited by KrHome.1920
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5 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Aiperos = eye-perross

Ipos = Ee-poss

 

Told you it's Greek.

 

As for English pronunciations: they (especially Americans) always pronounce foreign names incorrectly as if they were English names. It's terrible. Be it Polish, German, Latin, Greek, [...], even Spanish (with so many Hispanics and Latinos present in their country, it is quite an embarrassment that they are not even willing to try to pronounce their names correctly - not even close). It's also a scandal in my eyes how Norn (i.e., Norse, Skandinavian and German) names are mispronounced in Guild Wars (every single one of them - quite ignorant).

 

Oh yes, it's totally a uniquely American thing to mispronounce words from other languages.  What is it with people posting rants about their irl hang ups on a video game forum?

Edited by The Greyhawk.9107
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4 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Oh yes, it's totally a uniquely American thing to mispronounce words from other languages.  What is it with people posting rants about their irl hang ups on a video game forum?

They said especially Americans, not uniquely.

 

That probably comes from the fact that U.S.A. media has a much higher exposure all around the world compared to media from most other countries. Due to that, the mispronunciations in said U.S.A. media becomes more publicly known across the globe as well. With that exposure to mispronunciation, it's no wonder that people in other countries think people in the U.S.A. have a significantly higher tendency to mispronouncing words.

Edited by Fueki.4753
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11 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

They said especially Americans, not uniquely.

 

That probably comes from the fact that U.S.A. media has a much higher exposure all around the world compared to media from most other countries. Due to that, the mispronunciations in said U.S.A. media becomes more publicly known across the globe as well. With that exposure to mispronunciation, it's no wonder that people in other countries think people in the U.S.A. have a significantly higher tendency to mispronouncing words.

Perhaps, but it still seems like a weak justification to bash Americans for yet another thing everyone else does with just as much frequency, again on a video game forum.

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11 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

My name (my real name, not the nickname here) is greek in its origin, but has like a dozen different pronunciations across several languages. I wouldn't call that ignorant.

 

My maiden name literally came about due to repeated misspelling and mispronunciation. We think it was French originally but has been changed so many times it's hard to tell now (it's also been mistaken for Welsh, but none of my dads family is from Wales as far as we know). Even among my fairly small family there's 3 different pronunciations and 2 spellings in Britain and 2 or 3 more in South Africa.

 

It probably sounds bad but that was part of why I changed it when I got married. I have enough trouble with my first name being Katy; I have to spell it out each time (because "Katy with a Y sometimes results in Katiey) and assure them that is my full name and it isn't short for anything, no, not even whatever variation of Katherine they think it should be.

 

I've been thinking about it and I think it may not be true that English speakers are more likely to mispronounce words they're unfamiliar with, but I do think maybe they're less likely to see it as a problem if they get it wrong or to make an effort to correct it. Even after the concept of standard spellings was introduced to English it was often ignored and words will change all the time as regional accents and local habits influence it. I'm not sure if English is more variable than other languages but it certainly seems to shift a lot.

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13 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

That stuff always bothers me. If you're gonna borrow from other cultures, take the time to do it properly. Otherwise your vast array of ethnicities or cultures or races or whatever just boils down to the usual, where they're all slightly different flavours of American.

 

The thing that grates most is how (especially Americans) somehow turn the plosive G into a fricative J with Greek words: hearing Americans shout ay-jis in DotA used to hurt me inside.

 

While reading this, I keep thinking of a line by Allan Bloom.  Paraphrasing here:  "We're taught that it's bad to be ethnocentric.  That we should be open-minded to other cultures.  However, upon examining other cultures, one common feature we find without fail is that they are all ethnocentric."  To wit, you just asserted that American culture uniquely does not have a right to its own diction.  Language, transient as it is, is not allowed to evolve inside of the U.S.  It is a special burden placed upon Americans to know the specific dialects of every culture on earth, while also not be permitted to have their own.  It is also a special burden for Americans to be multi-cultural, lest we boil down to just being Americans.  Think of what what a tragedy it is that America is full of Americans.

 

The only reason why we can entertain a notion as silly as multiculturalism is because our forefathers either killed or sequestered all the cannibals for us.  Tribes fight.  It's a fact of the Earth.  We've observed this in wolves and monkeys, as well as humans.  You can't throw people together who have different morals, ideals, customs, expectations, goals, taboos, and even languages and expect them to coexist peacefully.  They will run afoul of each other, and it will end in either outright conflict or "compromise."  By "compromise" I mean the subjugation of one culture via the forced abdication of their values.  Like here, where I must surrender my tongue and learn the etymology of every word in the dictionary, for now and forevermore.  

 

I'm not sure whether to call this egotism or racism.  You think Americans have some special fault to mispronunciation because you hate Americans.  Every culture mispronounces things, because our brains and our mouths get used to saying things in certain ways.  I can provide alternate examples, too.  I've watched subbed anime before, and without fail the Japanese will butcher foreign words.  They make very little attempt to pronounce things correctly in their media.  It's so prevalent that we have a term for the Japanese' unique way of pronouncing foreign words:  Engrish.  Named for their inability to distinguish between "L" and "R", other characteristics include the sing-song way they speak, as well as attaching vowel sounds to all consonants instead of blending those phonemes together.

 

Should I be offended when the Japanese can't speak the Kow-WEEN-su Een-goo-ris-shu?  Of course not.  That itself is part of Japanese culture, and it can be enjoyed for all of its idiosyncrasies.  To get annoyed over this would be to assert a special claim over certain words while denying forthwith any claim the Japanese have to say those same words out of their own mouths.  Imagine the kind of egotism it takes to take offense over something so trivial, immaterial, and ever-changing.  

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11 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 

While reading this, I keep thinking of a line by Allan Bloom.  Paraphrasing here:  "We're taught that it's bad to be ethnocentric.  That we should be open-minded to other cultures.  However, upon examining other cultures, one common feature we find without fail is that they are all ethnocentric."  To wit, you just asserted that American culture uniquely does not have a right to its own diction.  Language, transient as it is, is not allowed to evolve inside of the U.S.  It is a special burden placed upon Americans to know the specific dialects of every culture on earth, while also not be permitted to have their own.  It is also a special burden for Americans to be multi-cultural, lest we boil down to just being Americans.  Think of what what a tragedy it is that America is full of Americans.

 

The only reason why we can entertain a notion as silly as multiculturalism is because our forefathers either killed or sequestered all the cannibals for us.  Tribes fight.  It's a fact of the Earth.  We've observed this in wolves and monkeys, as well as humans.  You can't throw people together who have different morals, ideals, customs, expectations, goals, taboos, and even languages and expect them to coexist peacefully.  They will run afoul of each other, and it will end in either outright conflict or "compromise."  By "compromise" I mean the subjugation of one culture via the forced abdication of their values.  Like here, where I must surrender my tongue and learn the etymology of every word in the dictionary, for now and forevermore.  

 

I'm not sure whether to call this egotism or racism.  You think Americans have some special fault to mispronunciation because you hate Americans.  Every culture mispronounces things, because our brains and our mouths get used to saying things in certain ways.  I can provide alternate examples, too.  I've watched subbed anime before, and without fail the Japanese will butcher foreign words.  They make very little attempt to pronounce things correctly in their media.  It's so prevalent that we have a term for the Japanese' unique way of pronouncing foreign words:  Engrish.  Named for their inability to distinguish between "L" and "R", other characteristics include the sing-song way they speak, as well as attaching vowel sounds to all consonants instead of blending those phonemes together.

 

Should I be offended when the Japanese can't speak the Kow-WEEN-su Een-goo-ris-shu?  Of course not.  That itself is part of Japanese culture, and it can be enjoyed for all of its idiosyncrasies.  To get annoyed over this would be to assert a special claim over certain words while denying forthwith any claim the Japanese have to say those same words out of their own mouths.  Imagine the kind of egotism it takes to take offense over something so trivial, immaterial, and ever-changing.  

________$$$$_______________
_______$$__$_______________
_______$___$$______________
_______$___$$______________
_______$$___$$_____________
________$____$$____________
________$$____$$$__________
_________$$_____$$_________
_________$$______$$________
__________$_______$$_______
____$$$$$$$________$$______
__$$$_______________$$$$$$
_$$____$$$$____________$$$
_$___$$$__$$$____________$$
_$$________$$$____________$
__$$____$$$$$$____________$
__$$$$$$$____$$___________$
__$$_______$$$$___________$
___$$$$$$$$$__$$_________$$
____$________$$$$_____$$$$
____$$____$$$$$$____$$$$$$
_____$$$$$$____$$__$$
_______$_____$$$_$$$
________$$$$$$$$$$

 

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While I appreciate the OP was looking for the accurate pronunciation - and they got it - there's one thing that's really overlooked in english and in many modern languages and it's sort of come up in the conversation that's followed - it doesn't matter so long as you are understood. The modern english is a mess, and it was a mess fifty years ago, and a hundred, and five hundred and so on. This is very prominently reflected in names since they survive linguistic generations. The rules today are half rules tomorrow and exceptions the day after that. All that is accelerating too. 

 

It was because I tried to be accurate that I learned that, whilst it is laudible to be proficient in language and maintain standards - even our highest standards are heinous failures by the standards of not so long ago. So relax a bit on the gripes and pedantry. 🙂

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17 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Aiperos = eye-perross

Ipos = Ee-poss

 

Told you it's Greek.

 

As for English pronunciations: they (especially Americans) always pronounce foreign names incorrectly as if they were English names. It's terrible. Be it Polish, German, Latin, Greek, [...], even Spanish (with so many Hispanics and Latinos present in their country, it is quite an embarrassment that they are not even willing to try to pronounce their names correctly - not even close). It's also a scandal in my eyes how Norn (i.e., Norse, Skandinavian and German) names are mispronounced in Guild Wars (every single one of them - quite ignorant).

 

You should see some of the dumb things people name their kids over here. 'Dasha' spelled '-a', or even better abcde pronounced 'ab-sea-dee.' I swear if I see a kid named Qwerty...

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4 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

 

While reading this, I keep thinking of a line by Allan Bloom.  Paraphrasing here:  "We're taught that it's bad to be ethnocentric.  That we should be open-minded to other cultures.  However, upon examining other cultures, one common feature we find without fail is that they are all ethnocentric."  To wit, you just asserted that American culture uniquely does not have a right to its own diction.  Language, transient as it is, is not allowed to evolve inside of the U.S.  It is a special burden placed upon Americans to know the specific dialects of every culture on earth, while also not be permitted to have their own.  It is also a special burden for Americans to be multi-cultural, lest we boil down to just being Americans.  Think of what what a tragedy it is that America is full of Americans.

 

The only reason why we can entertain a notion as silly as multiculturalism is because our forefathers either killed or sequestered all the cannibals for us.  Tribes fight.  It's a fact of the Earth.  We've observed this in wolves and monkeys, as well as humans.  You can't throw people together who have different morals, ideals, customs, expectations, goals, taboos, and even languages and expect them to coexist peacefully.  They will run afoul of each other, and it will end in either outright conflict or "compromise."  By "compromise" I mean the subjugation of one culture via the forced abdication of their values.  Like here, where I must surrender my tongue and learn the etymology of every word in the dictionary, for now and forevermore.  

 

I'm not sure whether to call this egotism or racism.  You think Americans have some special fault to mispronunciation because you hate Americans.  Every culture mispronounces things, because our brains and our mouths get used to saying things in certain ways.  I can provide alternate examples, too.  I've watched subbed anime before, and without fail the Japanese will butcher foreign words.  They make very little attempt to pronounce things correctly in their media.  It's so prevalent that we have a term for the Japanese' unique way of pronouncing foreign words:  Engrish.  Named for their inability to distinguish between "L" and "R", other characteristics include the sing-song way they speak, as well as attaching vowel sounds to all consonants instead of blending those phonemes together.

 

Should I be offended when the Japanese can't speak the Kow-WEEN-su Een-goo-ris-shu?  Of course not.  That itself is part of Japanese culture, and it can be enjoyed for all of its idiosyncrasies.  To get annoyed over this would be to assert a special claim over certain words while denying forthwith any claim the Japanese have to say those same words out of their own mouths.  Imagine the kind of egotism it takes to take offense over something so trivial, immaterial, and ever-changing.  

Oh god, we've stepped into the realm of modern populism.

Just how exactly did you manage to turn this into "the problem of multiculturalism"? Believe me, it has all the hallmarks: the loaded rhetoric, the silly simplification ("Tribes fight."), and to top it all off, we've got the talk of forefathers and rights in there.

 

I was talking about fantasy worlds, not modern cultural homogeneity.

 

Look at the "gold standard" for fantasy worlds: Tolkien. He took real cultures, like Anglo-Saxons and Celts, and shaped their history and language into his fantasy. What we see far more of today is to just slap on a generic culturally-appropriate sounding name that an American audience can get behind. McCormick or O'Sullivan works reaaaal gooood for Irish-types. 

You don't end up with anything of any interest. It's just another dull, derivative flavour of what your target audience is already used to.

 

All the talk of America is because it's a predominantly American thing: not just talking about recent history, with re-education in schools and the overused "melting pot" idea of homogenisation, but rather with the way things are marketed. It's "safe" and it's simple to just cheaply derive from existing things. How many knock-offs have sprung up since Game of Thrones became the must-watch show? How many games have you played, or films have you seen, where there's a native American guy with a mystical tie to nature and a generic verb-noun name? Yawn.

 

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10 hours ago, LSD.4673 said:

Oh god, we've stepped into the realm of modern populism.

Just how exactly did you manage to turn this into "the problem of multiculturalism"? Believe me, it has all the hallmarks: the loaded rhetoric, the silly simplification ("Tribes fight."), and to top it all off, we've got the talk of forefathers and rights in there.

 

I was talking about fantasy worlds, not modern cultural homogeneity.

 

Look at the "gold standard" for fantasy worlds: Tolkien. He took real cultures, like Anglo-Saxons and Celts, and shaped their history and language into his fantasy. What we see far more of today is to just slap on a generic culturally-appropriate sounding name that an American audience can get behind. McCormick or O'Sullivan works reaaaal gooood for Irish-types. 

You don't end up with anything of any interest. It's just another dull, derivative flavour of what your target audience is already used to.

 

All the talk of America is because it's a predominantly American thing: not just talking about recent history, with re-education in schools and the overused "melting pot" idea of homogenisation, but rather with the way things are marketed. It's "safe" and it's simple to just cheaply derive from existing things. How many knock-offs have sprung up since Game of Thrones became the must-watch show? How many games have you played, or films have you seen, where there's a native American guy with a mystical tie to nature and a generic verb-noun name? Yawn.

 

So you were talking about Americans then.  Nothing in the post of yours I quoted had anything to do with fantasy.  It was "Americans do this bad thing, and they shouldn't do this bad thing or else they're not actually multi-cultural."   Ashantara's post, which you were responding to and agreeing with, also consisted of "Ipos is Greek, and also Americans collectively do this evil thing and don't even try to be better."  I didn't bring the culture war into this.  You and Ashantara did.

 

Nothing you're saying is unique to, or can primarily attributed to, Americans.  Even all of this new stuff about safe marketing (or rather, product design) isn't unique to Americans, either.  The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya ruined anime and light novels for half a decade due to it's cheap nature and runaway success.  Everyone copied it to so much the industry was smothered with Suzumiya clones, which is partly why we pivoted so hard into the modern Isekai trend.  If you want to go more global with, The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Carl Jung proves the existence of a collective subconsciousness.  The Heroes Journey (basically the first Star Wars) is story structure present in every single culture on Earth since time immemorial.  It's like this in every niche, in every place, for every medium of entertainment.  Innovation is hard, and it is neither especially hard or especially easy if you live in the west.  People will chase success, no matter where they live or what they look like.  

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On 7/23/2021 at 7:15 AM, LSD.4673 said:

The thing that grates most is how (especially Americans) somehow turn the plosive G into a fricative J with Greek words: hearing Americans shout ay-jis in DotA used to hurt me inside.

That's a fairly common linguistic drift in general, turning hard consonants into their softer counterparts.

 

In this particular case, "aegis" is a word that came into English from Greek via Latin, and which has come to have a different meaning altogether to the original Greek, being more related to an abstract concept of responsibility, support, or protection rather than a physical object. Nowadays, they're practically different words with common ancestry. I'd personally pronounce it more ae-jis or even ee-jis if I was being lazy rather than ay-jis, but that's the difference between an Australian and American accent.

 

It's also hardly not the only example of a word that was originally classical Greek being pronounced differently in English. Centaur is another example, and pretty much anything starting with "pt" (such as pterodactyl). It's less a matter of the words being mispronounced so much as that having become how the words are pronounced in that language. Might as well complain about how French, Spanish, and Italian words drifted from the original Latin pronunciations.

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7 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Might as well complain about how French, Spanish, and Italian words drifted from the original Latin pronunciations.

That's a good idea. I'd like to start by blaming the Carolingians and, by extension, medieval ecclesiastical Latin for butchering both Latin and Greek at the same time.

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