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How to Fix Warrior for sPVP in 3 Easy Steps


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OK, the title is click-bait; warrior needs a lot of things to really be "fixed," but there are a few "low-hanging fruit" items that could be changed right now to make a sizeable difference.  So here we go:

 

1.) Revert "Shake It Off!" cooldown to 50s.  Or at most 60s.

I get that it is a stun break and a condi clear that has 2 charges, but 75s CD is just punitive.  This is especially the case when you compare to the stunbreaks of other classes.  For instance, "Protect Me!" on ranger breaks stun, grants protection, AND gives 3.3k barrier for 40s CD (and happens to be part of a trait line that is commonly used, so it is very available at 32s for many ranger builds).  Ranger has 2 other quality stun breaks also available for 30-40s untraited.  So why, exactly, does Shake It Off need to be 75s???  Simply put, it doesn't.

 

Changing this would be a major boost to sustain for virtually all warrior builds, as almost everyone takes this.  It would help address some of warrior's biggest weaknesses, namely high condi pressure and CC locks.  Small change, big improvement.

 

2.) Revert Mending cooldown to 15s

This is Warrior's best healing option, and it also serves as mass condi clear.  Reducing the CD obviously improves sustain in these ways. 
Other classes get endless barrier (scourge), blocks (guardian), protection (holo), etc.  Warrior needs a way to keep up with this.  Improving Mending would be an excellent way to do this.  It also makes Mending a more appealing option for those to choose to run a trait line other than Strength (eg.,  a Defense/Discipline/Berserker build) because it is still a useful skill even without being traited.

 

3.) Increase Might Makes Right healing to 100 hp per stack of might

More passive sustain to help keep up with the current bunker meta.  

 

Note that my changes predominantly affected the Strength trait line.  This is deliberate.  Strength is Warrior's best trait line, and it is pretty hard to get any sort of competitive DPS without it.  Thus, buffing the sustain options within Strength allows multiple Warrior builds (including core warrior) to become more viable without sacrificing too much dmg.   It would be really great to see the Defense trait line get some love, too (esp the 300s CD traits), but that would entail a bigger overhaul, and the focus of this post is to offer a few small changes that will yield the biggest impact for the class in sPVP.  

 

Oh, and nerf Scourge.  That will help everyone 🙂

 

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Tbh, rn, Id love any buffs. But at the same time I'd prefer Defense/Arms reworks over tweaks on strength. That plus a way to make healing Signet and to the limit a bit more reliable to use (resolution and resistance on Signet, lesser cast time on to the limit). 

 

 

 

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To this point I think a rework in Defense, Arms and on most weapons is the only solution to pair Warrior with other classes without being a running/dodge spammer.

 

I also would like to see an overhaul for Berserker. Most traits are Berserker mode exclusive and the ones that aren't have very little impact outside BM. So when you enter BM your enemy only needs to wait for it to end, and there you go: you are a core warrior with only two specializations.

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I agree with 1), 75s is too long.

 

Regarding 2), I think mending is fine. It would be more constructive to focus on one of the biggest problems with warrior, which is that by and large, both elite spec's utility skills are subpar/useless in sPVP. Seriously, headbutt is the only non-core utility skill that I ever see anyone run. Among the healing skills, blood reckoning is too gimmicky, and natural mending's cast time is too long. Maybe natural mending should grant a stance-like effect for 8-10 seconds where removing a boon heals for a certain amount or removes conditions.

 

Spellbreaker utilities are closer to being usable than berserker ones. Featherfoot grace used to be decent, but now it needs to also grant resolution or have its cooldown reduced. Imminent threat might be good with a 25s cooldown. Could maybe reduce the taunt by 0.25-0.5 seconds in exchange. Sight beyond sight should ignore blind for 5s instead of making the next attack crit. Traited bull's charge is way better than any of the offensive berserker utilities. Let's face it, everyone considering such a skill is probably already running strength/peak performance anyway, so the 30s base cooldown on bull's usually isn't an issue. I'm sure there are great suggestions for berserker utility skills in the omnibus thread that could be implemented. 

 

Like with mending, MMR is in a decent enough spot to where other priorities should take precedence. Buffing it further simply increases dependence on the strength line. One idea might be to remove the strike damage from loss aversion and replace it with healing for every boon removed. Obviously, this could indirectly increase dependence on the strength line due to the synergy between hammer/boon removal/body blow/aristocracy runes/MMR, but it would also increase sustain options for non-strength warriors and increase the usefulness of spellbreaker utility skills. 

 

Relatedly, one reason it feels so impossible to slot the arms traitline is that it lacks any sustain mechanism. The philosophical considerations of combining sustain and damage/utility in other traitlines (a la strength) aside, sustain mechanisms are necessary for sPVP. Adding them in other places is necessary if warrior is going to have any build diversity.

 

@Lan Deathrider.5910, I kind of disagree with your suggestion to merge MMR and pinnacle of strength into one grandmaster minor trait. Raw damage is only an issue for certain weapon sets, and enabling warriors to take berserker's power in sPVP might ultimately do more harm than good via ensuing QQ. A potential 21% modifier would be great on hammer/mace but excessive on greatsword. It is more important to increase warrior's ability to land hits than the size of them and then add targeted damage buffs to the weapons that need them. My guess is that you want to make merciless hammer a viable option. I agree that would be fantastic but is probably better accomplished by a different rework.

 

At this point my post is getting long/ramble-y, but I want to hit on a few other relatively simple fixes that would improve warrior in pvp.

  • Add an evade to flurry. One-handed weapons lack defensive abilities, making it suboptimal to use two one-handed mains.
  • Increase longbow/rifle projectile speed. Longbow is ok as a power/sustain weapon on core, but it has always needed faster projectiles. 
  • Allow movement with killshot and adjust rifle 4 to evade then fire (increase speed of both actions).
  • Increase hammer/mace auto attack damage by 20%. I don't really like this one that much, but it makes sense given that CC skills do no damage.
  • Add applications of resistance in a targeted way or at least some mechanism for ignoring blind. Soft cc, especially blind, is a bit too effective against warriors. See my sight beyond sight suggestion above. 
  • Add/reduce the cooldown of stability applications. Warrior and stab should go hand-in-hand. Brave stride is a dumb trait because it is too necessary to use movement skills just to keep up with a target, effectively eliminating the ability to strategically save stab for critical moments. The ICD is also too long.  
Edited by Malhavoc.8976
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I totally hear what you guys are saying, and I agree that there are many, MANY things about warrior that are suboptimal and could stand to be improved.  

 

I suspect, though, that Anet is unlikely to completely rework the class (although, with an expansion coming up this would be the perfect time to do so if that's what they intend).  With that in mind, I've constrained myself to suggesting a handful of relatively simple changes that could yield a large return on investment.

 

I think it is also worth noting that, while reworking some trait lines and weapons would definitely improve warrior variety (something I very much approve of!), that wouldn't necessarily fix the fundamental issues that keep warrior out of the current sPVP meta.  Even our most "meta" build, Strength Spellbreaker, falls short consistently.  Why?  Simply put, too little damage, and too little sustain.  With other classes having endless barrier, blocks, evades, stealth, blinds, etc, Warrior needs ways to keep up.  Without completely reworking the class, the simplest way to do that is to buff certain key traits and skills that can address some of deficiencies in sustain.

 

Again, I agree: more variety in warrior would be wonderful and we should definitely keep working toward that.  But what would it take to get even one warrior build, eg, Strength Spellbreaker, back into the meta?  I think the changes suggested in the OP (reduced Shake It Off CD, reduced Mending CD, and increased healing from MMR) would do that, or at least get it close.  A hefty (and well-deserved) nerf to necro would help, too.

 

I also suspect that the changes above would allow various versions of power core warrior and power berserker to rise in viability.  Maybe not quite to the level of "meta," but definitely closer than they are right now!

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7 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I totally hear what you guys are saying, and I agree that there are many, MANY things about warrior that are suboptimal and could stand to be improved.  

 

I suspect, though, that Anet is unlikely to completely rework the class (although, with an expansion coming up this would be the perfect time to do so if that's what they intend).  With that in mind, I've constrained myself to suggesting a handful of relatively simple changes that could yield a large return on investment.

 

I think it is also worth noting that, while reworking some trait lines and weapons would definitely improve warrior variety (something I very much approve of!), that wouldn't necessarily fix the fundamental issues that keep warrior out of the current sPVP meta.  Even our most "meta" build, Strength Spellbreaker, falls short consistently.  Why?  Simply put, too little damage, and too little sustain.  With other classes having endless barrier, blocks, evades, stealth, blinds, etc, Warrior needs ways to keep up.  Without completely reworking the class, the simplest way to do that is to buff certain key traits and skills that can address some of deficiencies in sustain.

 

Again, I agree: more variety in warrior would be wonderful and we should definitely keep working toward that.  But what would it take to get even one warrior build, eg, Strength Spellbreaker, back into the meta?  I think the changes suggested in the OP (reduced Shake It Off CD, reduced Mending CD, and increased healing from MMR) would do that, or at least get it close.  A hefty (and well-deserved) nerf to necro would help, too.

 

I also suspect that the changes above would allow various versions of power core warrior and power berserker to rise in viability.  Maybe not quite to the level of "meta," but definitely closer than they are right now!

I suggested some skill reworks (only effects, no animations except for maybe 1 skill's mechanics which may need an altered animation) for Rages and Meditations as well as the introduction of traits for them in hte Omnibus. I feel like, that only, would allow players to have a better experience as a warr..

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On 7/28/2021 at 11:08 PM, TugboatSteve.3607 said:

Buff mandatory abilities plz

 

Make them more mandatory so that I can't make a build without them

I sense your sarcasm, but your argument is self-defeating.  

 

If a skill is mandatory, then by definition you have to take it.

Buffing anything else would be useless because you still have to take the "mandatory" stats/traits and would not be able to use the newly buffed skills.

Buffing "mandatory" skills, however, would effectively buff the whole class because they have to take these skills anyway.

Indeed, the suggestions in the original post were based on just such an assumption: Mending and Shake it off ARE mandatory, so please buff them so we can all benefit!

 

However, I think what you're trying to say is that you wish there were viable alternatives to these skills to provide better build diversity.  That's an excellent point and I wholeheartedly agree with it.  My intention in the original post was to improve warrior significantly in the fewest tweaks/changes possible (since I think ANet is unlikely to do anything really significant before the expansion).    But your point (at least, the point I think you're making) is well taken.  So here are a few suggestions that might diversify build options:

 

To The Limit:  Reduce CD to 20s.  

It cures no conditions and heals only a tiny bit more than Mending (like 300hp I think).  Yes, it can have it's CD reduced 20% and get extra healing from Vigorous shouts, but you usually have to give up useful traits and/or utilities to take Tactics in the first place, so  I really don't see that as unfair.  And to anyone who thinks the healing would be too much...Have you seen Scourge???

 

Signet of Stamina:  Make it a stunbreak.  Or at least reduce the CD to 25s.

I favor making it a stunbreak and keeping its current 40s CD (in PVP at least).   If you're goal is to provide an alternative to Shake It Off (SIO), you've gotta replace that stunbreak somewhere.  While keeping the signet's effects as is and reducing the CD to 25s would definitely be useful, I'd have to give something else up in order to keep 2 stunbreaks on my utility slots, so I would probably still choose SIO over signet for that reason.  

 

Making the signet of Stamina a stunbreak would make Arms so much more appealing: I could take signet mastery and then get Dolyak signet and signet of stamina for 48s and 32s CD, respectively.  That's pretty good, esp considering the important passive benefits that the signets provide.  Add in sundering burst and burst precision, and you've got some real potential there...

 

Cheers!

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.Just a few changes that have been on my mind:

 

>For berserker, they should put back how it worked previously with your basic burst available out of berserker mode. 

 

>For Spellbreaker, increase the damage of our Full Counter.

 

>Also, maybe Anet should consider bringing our hammer damage back to normal in competitive modes. Not every control damage was nerfed. Ours shouldn't have been since it makes hammer burst seem out right silly. We're jumping in the air then slamming down making the very earth shake for a grand total of 32 damage? Its baffling. Either bring the damage back to normal or change the animation to a simple swing downwards with slight vibrations. It's too silly to witness otherwise.

 

>I don't want to talk about conditions since I hate conditions coming from a warrior.

>However for Arms, we can change Sundering Burst to still inflict vulnerability but add an increase to the chances of critical hitting someone with vulnerability.

 

>For Defense, maybe allow Cleansing Ire to cleanse conditions regardless of if a burst hits or not. We get a cooldown hit or miss so what the hell, might as well. Or if too much, allow 1 less condition to be cleansed on miss.

>Perhaps for Armored Attack, instead of gaining power based on toughness, bring back the ole retaliation (could call it something else) and base it on toughness. A certain percentage of damage will be reflected back at the attacker. If it sounds like too much then have it be at a certain range or have a cooldown.

  • >This might be a throwaway but maybe Shield Master should gain movement speed if a certain amount of attacks are blocked. Like, after 10 simultaneous blocks, you get a boost in speed or gain barrier or stability. Pick one or two. It could be added to shield instead of trait.
  • >Shield 4 attack, "Shield Bash", with shield trait chosen could either knock back plus stun or knockdown. (I'm spitballing with this one)

 

>Discipline: Warrior sprint could have an increase in movement speed the more immobilizes are broken through.

 

Those are just a few things I wouldn't mind seeing be implemented. And they don't seem too earth shattering and seems doable.

 

TLDR: Warrior needs some changes yall!

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15 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

If a skill is mandatory, then by definition you have to take it.

Buffing anything else would be useless because you still have to take the "mandatory" stats/traits and would not be able to use the newly buffed skills.

 

15 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I sense your sarcasm, but your argument is self-defeating.  

 

Then delete all the other abilities and just tune one set of abilities.
 

It's literally unpossible to make any other abilities useful.

 

Let me ask you a question, what do you think the word buffing means. My understanding is that it makes the ability better so that it would be a more appealing choice relative to other choices that were considered superior before the buff.

 

If I had in my one hand, $5. In my other hand, I had a crisp $1 bill. You would obviously take the $5 bill.

 

But if I made added $10 to my other hand such that it was now $11, you would then take the $11.

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I'm guessing you didn't read the second part of the post where I said "I agree with you" and offered concrete examples of skills that could be changed to offer what mending and shake it off offer. But no worries; they probably won't make those changes anyways 🙂 

 

But a few reflections on what you said:

 

1.) In your example about the money, you didn't actually fix the problem of "mandatory skills."  By adding $10 to the hand that had $1, you created a situation where that hand, which now has $11, is clearly superior to the other hand holding only $5.  So now you have a new mandatory skill--you've buffed some other skill so much that it's a loss of value to take anything else.  If the goal is to eliminate mandatory skills, we need to end up with the same number of dollars in each hand.  Then we could legitimately pick either hand and it would work out ok.

 

2.) Multiple people in this thread and elsewhere have voiced their preferences that buffing various utilities or trait lines be a higher priority than buffing Mending, or Shake It Off, etc.  And I totally agree that Warrior could use a lot of love in a lot of areas.  But we should keep one thing in mind--where is Warrior in the meta (thinking specifically PvP or WvW) right now?  The community consensus is that we're not in a great place.  And that's WITH running our "mandatory" skills, the best Warrior has to offer at the moment.  That is to say, Warrior's  best isn't good enough.  Our best needs to be better.

 

Improving underperforming trait lines and utility skills won't be enough to make warrior great again....unless those buffs are so substantial that it outshines what we're currently doing.  Making Arms as good as Strength isn't going to solve the problem; Arms (or Tactics or Defense) needs to be better than Strength is right now.  And THEN Strength should be buffed to the level of the new-and-improved Arms.  Ending up with $5 in each hand isn't going to make us better (but it would make us able to suck in more diverse ways).  We need to end up with $11 in each hand.  

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