Raizel.1839 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) I'd say: Mesmer: Queen Jenna (the things she did in S3E4 were awesome). Revenant: Rytlock (not much competition here xD) Thief: Caithe (maybe?) And stop...I really don't know/remember other classes' representative NPCs. Gods like Lyssa/Balth/etc are excluded, so are monsters. What's your ranking? Edited July 24, 2021 by Raizel.1839 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 As necromancers go Trahaerne definitely takes the spot. Summoning multiple flesh golems, or array of elite flesh wurms is way beyond of what other necromancers have shown so far. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 All I know is that its going to be hard to place Logan on the list because there is no clown class. 1 1 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails.9372 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Raizel.1839 said: Thief: Caithe (maybe?) I wouldn't even call her a thief, she seems to be her own class entirely. If anything I'd say Zafirah as she is (unlike the PC) actually capable of doing what her build is supposed to be doing: sniping. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tseison.4659 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 Guardian: Logan Thackery Revenant: Rytlock Brimstone Warrior: ? Engineer: Scarlet Briar Thief: Caithe Ranger: Eir Stegalkin Elementalist: Zojja Necromancer: Palawa Joko Mesmer: Xera Overall, the top 3 (on my list) that I consider powerful would be Joko, Xera and Scarlet Briar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenella.2634 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 If Xera counts, then I would also throw in Desmina as a candidate for necro. Why Zojja, though? Have we ever seen her use any elementalist skills at all? Sieran does more. For guardian, maybe Almorra, since she already had the 3rd elite spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Fenella.2634 said: If Xera counts, then I would also throw in Desmina as a candidate for necro. Why Zojja, though? Have we ever seen her use any elementalist skills at all? Sieran does more. For guardian, maybe Almorra, since she already had the 3rd elite spec? her moveset, and fight style is something beyond amazing, if its becoming a elite spec it will be like a dream, but also will come a river of cry for nerf on forums. shes also can return as mists legend and her moveset become a base for revenant+GS. Edited July 24, 2021 by ugrakarma.9416 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fueki.4753 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 Revenant: Rytlock Brimstone Guardian: Logan Thackeray or Almorra Soulbringer Warrior: Knut Whitebear or Canach Ranger: Wurmmarshal Osa Ekolo Thief: Malice Swordshadow or Mai Trin Engineer: Scarlet Briar Elementalist: most likely Gaheron Balefire Mesmer: Queen Jennah or Countess Anise Necromancer: Palawa Ignacious Joko (or Trahearne, if Joko falls into the god category) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decease.3215 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 I don't know about other class.. the strongest Elementalist is that spellcaster from Fractal 25.... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aodlop.1907 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: Summoning multiple flesh golems, or array of elite flesh wurms is way beyond of what other necromancers have shown so far. Naah, Joko is way above this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radda.8920 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, Aodlop.1907 said: Naah, Joko is way above this. Joko is way above all that exists 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said: Naah, Joko is way above this. Joko's not using the Necromancer skill kit, so he doesn't really count as far as i am concerned. We should probably treat him not as Necromancer, but as an unique class. I am looking at NPCs that are clearly using the same classes as player characters do, but whose abilities seem different/enhanced somehow. So, stuff like Trahaerne being able to summon multiples of minions when players can have only one active, Queen Jennah being able to cast a Feedback the size of the city, Kasmeer being able to cast portal exit at range, or Caithe having access to significantly stronger versions of easily recognizable thief skills. Stuff like that Edited July 24, 2021 by Astralporing.1957 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said: Queen Jennah being able to cast a Feedback the size of the city, Kasmeer being able to cast portal exit at range, or Caithe having access to significantly stronger versions of easily recognizable thief skills. Stuff like that In another thread in the Lore section that i made, apparently, the Feedback spell was prepared before (probably by multiple people), or it was a machine or something, Jennah just flicked the switch, she didn't cast it herself. Or at least didn't maintain it, idk... That's what people said in that thread anyway... She does though kill a few people with a finger snap... Kasmeer has the power of plot convenience with her portals, but so do most of the NPCs, they all seem to be able to do much more powerful versions of what the player can do except they don't have access to elite skills so the player (the commander) is right up there with their power level, only in a different way. Like, none of NPC Mesmers are Mirages or Chronomancers, there's like one Deadeye in all of LS4 and most other elite classes don't have a NPC equivalent. So, since most of the "main cast" have the plot armor spells, it's hard to rank them in power or even profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said: In another thread in the Lore section that i made, apparently, the Feedback spell was prepared before (probably by multiple people), or it was a machine or something, Jennah just flicked the switch, she didn't cast it herself. Or at least didn't maintain it, idk... That's what people said in that thread anyway... She does though kill a few people with a finger snap... It's worth noting that this is a theory, not something that has been strictly confirmed AFAIK. There is some evidence to it, however - she doesn't seem to be as powerful outside her 'home turf' (she usually just shields herself when threatened outside of Divinity's Reach), she mentions that some of the barriers she makes during the instance were pre-prepared after Scarlet's attack (EDIT: Just replayed the instance, and she doesn't specify that they were prepared after Scarlet's attack, but they ARE prepared positions), and when you look back at the dome from Lake Doric the dome is a mix of blue and purple splotches rather than straight purple (although it is straight purple when she originally invokes it). While some mesmer effects do have blue in them, so this isn't definitive, it could suggest that the dome is maintained by a cooperative effort by mesmers and guardians rather than being a pure mesmer enchantment. Similar observations, mind you, could be made regarding Xera - she's fighting on her home turf where there's been an opportunity for her to do a fair amount of preparation, and some of the elements of Wing 3 attributed to her might have been done with the assistance of others, while others seem to be generic bloodstone-related effects rather than mesmer effects. 6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: Joko's not using the Necromancer skill kit, so he doesn't really count as far as i am concerned. We should probably treat him not as Necromancer, but as an unique class. Joko used Necromancer skills in GW1, and some of the skills I remember from fighting him in S4 are very similar to wells if I recall correctly. Scourge is also apparently based on some of the things Joko started teaching to some of his minions, but said minions (or at least some of them) defected. So I think he definitely classifies as a necromancer, albeit one massively in advance of any other necromancer we've run into. Edited July 25, 2021 by draxynnic.3719 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fear.3865 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Even elementalist NPCs are the worst 🙈 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, The Fear.3865 said: Even elementalist NPCs are the worst 🙈 We haven't met Isgarren yet. There's also the Modnir shamans, and Gaheron Balefire might well count on the basis that he didn't actually achieve godhood before we stopped him. Considering still-living NPCs, in fact, Efram might well have a strong claim to the title. It's probably worth noting, too, that in a lot of cases, an NPC being able to do something that the PC can't doesn't necessarily mean that they're stronger than the PC, just that they have a different proficiency. Logan, for instance, is probably most impressive for the big shield bubble he puts up in CoF, but generally speaking, I think a guardian PC is supposed to be a stronger guardian than Logan. Jennah, similarly, does things that a mesmer PC can't, but if it came to a duel between Jennah and a mesmer PC, I'd probably still put my money on the mesmer PC unless Jennah has been going to pretty great lengths to hide her true power. (While on the topic, I'd also note that Canach's profession is still a bit ambiguous. In a lot of ways he behaves more like an engineer who happens to use a sword than a warrior.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beleron.9347 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said: (While on the topic, I'd also note that Canach's profession is still a bit ambiguous. In a lot of ways he behaves more like an engineer who happens to use a sword than a warrior.) The wiki doesn't list a profession for him. Canach is just... Canach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said: (While on the topic, I'd also note that Canach's profession is still a bit ambiguous. In a lot of ways he behaves more like an engineer who happens to use a sword than a warrior.) You mean... like an engineer? (holo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: You mean... like an engineer? (holo) He does use mines quite a bit too. For players who didnt really do any of season 1 they first meet him in S2 when they interact with a mordrem body hes rigged to blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: You mean... like an engineer? (holo) That's probably the closest playable approximation, but he doesn't behave like a holosmith either. His sword skills seem more warrior-like than holosmith-like, although his shield skills are more engineer-like and his role is generally more one of being an explosives expert than anything. He also doesn't have a holoforge mode, although it's worth keeping in mind that Marjory is a necromancer with a greatsword that doesn't go reaper shroud either. Conversely, there's the argument that he's more of a warrior who makes a lot of use of environmental items. Which is hard to rule out altogether, but I think the fact that Dark Canach in the leadup to the Mordremoth fight is mostly using explosives suggests that explosive use is certainly more significant to Canach than simply making use of them when they're available. I suspect the real source of the ambiguity was that he was originally just a simple warrior, but was character-developed into being more of an engineer that still has some holdover warrior behaviour. Edited July 25, 2021 by draxynnic.3719 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedragon.8953 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) Hmm... Is there even a warrior NPC (character, not like random Svanir or something)? Seems to be missing from Destiny's Edge and even Team B. Guess we really are the "forgotton" profession. lol Trahearne is most definitely the best necromancer. Queen Jenna is by far the most powerful mesmer. (She even has a self-replicating army of clone minis). Edit: I also don't think Canach is a warrior. He uses explosives and has stealth, etc. He is like an Engiorrior or something. I dunno, I think Canach is...well...Canach. Edited July 25, 2021 by firedragon.8953 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) For those saying Logan is the most powerful guardian, do remember that Braham with a little help from Aurine was able to block a point blank breath blast from an Elder Dragon in season 4 😛 Knocked him right on his rear and left him utterly discombobulated but he did it XD Oh and it's a no contest on Mesmer. Queen Jennah is by far the most powerful known mesmer in the franchise up to this point. She is the only Mesmer known to have been able to successfully create and use a Mesmer Clone of an Elder Dragon to manipulate that dragons own minions. She's a kitten beast lol Edited July 25, 2021 by Teratus.2859 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 23 minutes ago, firedragon.8953 said: Hmm... Is there even a warrior NPC (character, not like random Svanir or something)? Seems to be missing from Destiny's Edge and even Team B. Guess we really are the "forgotton" profession. lol It was Rytlock, and then he character-developed into a revenant. We also just had Ryland, who beat Almorra - who is being presented as a candidate for best NPC guardian - in a 1v1. Sure, he didn't have the skills when we played him ourselves, but the same is true of Braham - people complained about not being able to use their own builds after the Caithe instances, so now when we're playing as a character who's normally an NPC, we mostly use our own bars instead. Ultimately, I suspect the real issue there is that warriors are something that's hard to build mechanics around, because they generally don't do anything fancy, they just try to smash the enemy's face in. This means they don't really make good boss encounters, as such encounters would pretty much come down to a question of kiting or otherwise surviving the warrior's attacks long enough to bring them down, while Almorra, say, gets to put down fire fields, wardings to try to trap Ryland, and other mechanics. Heck, until that instance, I'd thought Almorra was a warrior herself... and it's possible that ArenaNet did too until they had to make a boss fight out of her. Similarly, they don't really offer much in the way of supporting mechanics as a team member either. That's probably part of the reason why some of the cast have been seeing more use while others get retired: if they want some mechanic in an instance relating to explosives, they slot Canach, a mechanic involving minions will result in Marjory being brought in, any illusions used for deception purposes will bring Kasmeer into play, and so on. Rox, on the other hand, was possibly retired as a companion largely because there's not much you could get a ranger NPC to do that another NPC couldn't do. Warriors, similarly, would probably not be able to do much more than simply dishing out damage, and that's the PC's domain. Which, thinking on it, might be a large part of the reason why Canach is the way he is. First time he was introduced as a quick fight where the main challenge was actually trying to get him to trigger despite the bug? Yeah, just make him a warrior. Concluding battle of a story chapter? Needed something to make the fight more than just a DPS race, so why not cover the field with explosives? Finally shows up as an ally in Season 2? Well, they've already established that he likes trapping things with explosives, why not make a mechanic out of that? And so a character that was initially presented as a warrior morphs into something that's more like an engineer because that's more useful for instance design. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draxynnic.3719 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Teratus.2859 said: For those saying Logan is the most powerful guardian, do remember that Braham with a little help from Aurine was able to block a point blank breath blast from an Elder Dragon in season 4 😛 Knocked him right on his rear and left him utterly discombobulated but he did it XD Oh and it's a no contest on Mesmer. Queen Jennah is by far the most powerful known mesmer in the franchise up to this point. She is the only Mesmer known to have been able to successfully create and use a Mesmer Clone of an Elder Dragon to manipulate that dragons own minions. She's a kitten beast lol Both of these do have a degree of 'with help (potentially)'. Jennah was accompanied by Anise and possibly additional Shining Blade mesmers, and from what I recall of the last we saw of her before she made the illusion, she wasn't planning on doing it alone. And as you say, Braham had help from Aurene. Now, being empowered by Aurene is not necessarily a disqualification in and of itself, but balancing that against Logan holding off Gaheron's rolling magma boulders on his own is not necessarily a straightforward analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedragon.8953 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 16 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said: It was Rytlock, and then he character-developed into a revenant. We also just had Ryland, who beat Almorra - who is being presented as a candidate for best NPC guardian - in a 1v1. Oh good point about old-school Rytlock. I guess I kinda forgot he was a "warrior" long ago. haha. And yeah, Ryland...I dunno, I guess he didn't really shine as a warrior considering he spent most of the screen time as either some teen with a mighty sword or juiced up dragon magic powers. But basically from your post, I guess what you're saying is Warriors need an "interesting" elite spec. Maybe they will do something like they did with Firebrand, but with stances, or something to expand the skillset. I would like to see some warrior NPC take center stage for a while. 16 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said: Similarly, they don't really offer much in the way of supporting mechanics as a team member either. I disagree here, though, considering banners and shouts. I actually think if there was an actual "commander" NPC, they would indeed be able to play the role of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now