Hi, some random idea for change barrier system.

[elluka.5970]

1.  Make the one who is dazed /stunned, can't receive any barrier effect (including the barrier skill caster like scourge itself).        Like its a armor, or a clothes you have to be sober to put on.

    That way,  someone who abuse barrier skill can't be tanking tons of damage while being stun to hell, but still survive well (you either breakstun first, or precast barrier if you know you will 100% stunnd). 

    Plus those class heavily rely on barrier, will need to enhance their skill instead of face roll keyboard (because when they stunned, they will not gain barrier, but the skill is still used - into cooldown).

 

    I just thought this way to solve the face roll barrier scourge, improve the skill cap of playing scourge, while not touching the barrier setting like barrier amount, or barrier fade out time.

    I'm not killing scourge at all, I just let it require more skill (carefully not to use barrier skill while dazed /stunned,  and more critical timing of using BreakStun to use the barrier skill effectively).

 

2. Make the one who receive more than 7000 barrier (or some number that is too much damage absorbing), lose all of their speed relate boon (swiftness / superspeed) and can't require all of it              within  3 second or what for punishment state that can't be remove (but not cripple, that's too much).    

 

    It's like you put on a really heavy clothes so you move slower.

    So to compensate absorbing too much damage, while can't be catch by melee attack because you have swiftness / superspeed.

 

 

 

Increase the player skill require to use the barrier effect, while not modify the current barrier amount setting, and can be counter by well timing daze / stun.

 

I'm driven by pvp instead of pve point of view, but I think if player can easily push button to get tons of barrier while getting stun very long time then survive, that will make player feel boring, even the one who's getting barrier, no matter its pvp or pve.

 

How do you guys think?  Is it bad, really bad, or have some flaw?     

I really want to make a changing idea that's elegance, not heavily rely on number modifying (hard to decide the right number), or relate to core mechanism that's hard to alter or balance.

Edited July 27, 2021 by elluka.5970

[SeTect.5918]

23 minutes ago, elluka.5970 said:

1.  Make the one who is dazed /stunned, can't receive any barrier effect (including the barrier skill caster like scourge itself).        Like its a armor, or a clothes you have to be sober to put on.

    That way,  someone who abuse barrier skill can't be tanking tons of damage while being stun to hell, but still survive well (you either breakstun first, or precast barrier if you know you will 100% stunnd). 

    Plus those class heavily rely on barrier, will need to enhance their skill instead of face roll keyboard (because when they stunned, they will not gain barrier, but the skill is still used - into cooldown).

 

    I just thought this way to solve the face roll barrier scourge, improve the skill cap of playing scourge, while not touching the barrier setting like barrier amount, or barrier fade out time.

    I'm not killing scourge at all, I just let it require more skill (carefully not to use barrier skill while dazed /stunned,  and more critical timing of using BreakStun to use the barrier skill effectively).

 

2. Make the one who receive more than 7000 barrier (or some number that is too much damage absorbing), lose all of their speed relate boon (swiftness / superspeed) and can't require all of it              within  3 second or what for punishment state that can't be remove (but not cripple, that's too much).    

 

    It's like you put on a really heavy clothes so you move slower.

    So to compensate absorbing too much damage, while can't be catch by melee attack because you have swiftness / superspeed.

 

 

 

Increase the player skill require to use the barrier effect, while not modify the current barrier amount setting, and can be counter by well timing daze / stun.

 

I'm driven by pvp instead of pve point of view, but I think if player can easily push button to get tons of barrier while getting stun very long time then survive, that will make player feel boring, even the one who's getting barrier, no matter its pvp or pve.

 

How do you guys think?  Is it bad, really bad, or have some flaw?     

I really want to make a changing idea that's elegance, not heavily rely on number modifying (hard to decide the right number), or relate to core mechanism that's hard to alter or balance.

I think you should nerf barrier on specific classes and not like that.

 

Scrapper and power weaver both have traits that increase strike damage while having swiftness or superspeed. 

My weaver already has to swap out 1 damage utility skill for stone Resonance, removing a damage related boon when using it would be too much.

As scrapper it is extremely easy to reach max. Barrier when doing a burst. 

And if marauder ele uses stone Resonance you ll also lose it.

Not to mention some classes will get advantages due to being not even able to get 7k barrier. Because they dont have enough hp.

 

Support scourge would die Because there are some classes that build up damage on superspeed or swiftness. Like weaver and scrapper. 

I dont think there should be a supporter that lowers your dps.

 

That barrier problem as u described it...being knocked and still having 10k barrier...is a problem of scourge only. 

Other classes with good barrier are scrapper and weaver.

Scrapper has to hit you to get good barrier and weaver can use stone Resonance every 50 Sec, at least in pve. I think in pvp or wvw its an even higher cooldown.

 

If you dont like the barrier being able to spam while knocked, there would be a different way like giving some skills a Quarter second cast time. 

 

But no more nerfs for ele pls. I already suffered too much. 

[elluka.5970]

54 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I think you should nerf barrier on specific classes and not like that.

 

Scrapper and power weaver both have traits that increase strike damage while having swiftness or superspeed. 

My weaver already has to swap out 1 damage utility skill for stone Resonance, removing a damage related boon when using it would be too much.

As scrapper it is extremely easy to reach max. Barrier when doing a burst. 

And if marauder ele uses stone Resonance you ll also lose it.

Not to mention some classes will get advantages due to being not even able to get 7k barrier. Because they dont have enough hp.

 

Support scourge would die Because there are some classes that build up damage on superspeed or swiftness. Like weaver and scrapper. 

I dont think there should be a supporter that lowers your dps.

 

That barrier problem as u described it...being knocked and still having 10k barrier...is a problem of scourge only. 

Other classes with good barrier are scrapper and weaver.

Scrapper has to hit you to get good barrier and weaver can use stone Resonance every 50 Sec, at least in pve. I think in pvp or wvw its an even higher cooldown.

 

If you dont like the barrier being able to spam while knocked, there would be a different way like giving some skills a Quarter second cast time. 

 

But no more nerfs for ele pls. I already suffered too much. 

I kind of think you misunderstand my point, my changing direction is to punish over high amount barrier spam, and not very punishing actually.   

 

If weaver / scrapper can easy create 7000 or let's say 10000 barrier (if 7000 is too low in your opinion), then I don't think it's big deal to temporally remove your speed boon for 3 sec AT ALL.

 

In my point 2, the over high barrier value is set to 7000.  If you can maintain 7000up barrier "easily" by yourself, well I think you deserve to be punish a little or even more, because you are too easy to be tanky.

 

I mainly want to solve the instant overly barrier problem on scourge provide (that I know scourge can 2 button to get 9000 up barrier). 

And the amount threshold of 7000,  I'm not mean you receive barrier 7000 in x sec.   

I mean when you HAVE over 7000 on your character in that moment.

(So if you use 4500+5000+2000 contiguous , but never maintain over 7000, you are not in this case.)

 

In a combat, you will get hit, your barrier can easily be reduced,  it's not easy to have and maintain 7000 on your character unless you spam barrier skill or your teammate is troll just face roll button (you are not even getting one shot, why you put nearly 10000 barrier on yourself ???).

If you did maintain 7000 up barrier, I'm sure you have way too much damage absorption. And need some very minor punishment for being too tanky.

(not to mention you even want to keep your swift/superspeed, are you kidding me?  have 7000up barrier and can run away?) 

 

If you can push 2 button then maintain 7000up barrier in weaver / scrapper, then my idea need to be check a little more maybe,

but why you have to spam all your barrier skill all together?   The barrier that's not being use to absorb damage is waste anyway.

 

 

And like I say in my point 2 is : It's like you put on a really heavy clothes so you move slower.

It's not like I'm nerf weaver / scrapper even more,  it's to compensate the fact that when you receive 7000up barrier and not getting any hit, YOU ARE BEING TOO TANKY IN SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME.  

In that way, if you say remove your speed boon for 3 sec is a major nerf, I really don't know what to say.

 

Scourge won't provide you 7000 barrier every 10 sec, so I don't think it will constantly remove your speed boon for having too much barrier, that should be rarely the case.

Correct me if I'm seriously wrong on some part about weaver / scrapper(I'm not target ele mate...).

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by elluka.5970

[SeTect.5918]

26 minutes ago, elluka.5970 said:

 

If weaver / scrapper can easy create 7000 or let's say 10000 barrier (if 7000 is too low in your opinion), then I don't think it's big deal to temporally remove your speed boon for 3 sec.

 

(not to mention you even want to keep your swift/superspeed, are you kidding me?  have 7000up barrier and can run away?) 

 

If you can push 2 button then maintain 7000up barrier in weaver / scrapper, then my idea need to be check a little more maybe,

but why you have to spam all your barrier skill all together?  

 

Weaver can easily get over 7k barrier yes. But only once every 50 seconds.

So you swap out a dps utility for sustain and then lose even more dps because your swiftness gets removed?

You cant use 2 skills for the 7k barrier if its all in 1 skill.

 

And scrapper when doing a burst, thats exactly the moment when you need the swiftness for dmg increase.

And is it nice to give scrapper a trait that grants increased damage when having superspeed and swiftness but then remove it again by another trait?

Hell no.

 

36 minutes ago, elluka.5970 said:

 

I mainly want to solve the instant overly barrier problem on scourge provide (that I know scourge can 2 button to get 9000 up barrier). 

 

Tbh. I Really like the idea behind all this because scourge Really has too much barrier spam in wvw, pvp and pve. But i dont like that scrapper and ele have to Suffer too.

 

I would like different changes that only nerf scourge. An idea would be to just reduce scourges barrier on some skills by 50% and give allies double barrier. So to urself its half barrier and for teammates the same still. Doesnt kill heal scourge and nerfs condi scourge. 

Another idea would be to give cast times on barrier skills that grant too much barrier. To make them unusable while knocked. 

Because the barrier spam annoys me too in wvw. 

 

I think punishing weaver and scrapper is useless or lets say, its possible to avoid that.

[RedAvenged.5217]

These changes don’t sound fun. Maybe a better system is give scourge shade skills an animation so they cannot dish out barrier while stunned

Edited July 27, 2021 by RedAvenged.5217

[elluka.5970]

30 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Weaver can easily get over 7k barrier yes. But only once every 50 seconds.

So you swap out a dps utility for sustain and then lose even more dps because your swiftness gets removed?

You cant use 2 skills for the 7k barrier if its all in 1 skill.

 

And scrapper when doing a burst, thats exactly the moment when you need the swiftness for dmg increase.

And is it nice to give scrapper a trait that grants increased damage when having superspeed and swiftness but then remove it again by another trait?

Hell no.

You mention weaver can easily get over 7k barrier, but only once every 50 second, that's very long interval in my opinion.

Also as I say, you normally want to use this big barrier skill in combat, so it's really hard to "instantly" get over 7000~10000 barrier right?  That's why I think it won't effect weaver / scrapper that much, because before you can reach 7000~10000(which is not instant or am I wrong?), your barrier are already being reduce way below 7000~10000 threshold in combat.

I'm not weaver expert, your call.   I kind of think 10000 is too hard to trigger,  lower than 7000 is bad for normal player.

30 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I would like different changes that only nerf scourge. An idea would be to just reduce scourges barrier on some skills by 50% and give allies double barrier. So to urself its half barrier and for teammates the same still. Doesnt kill heal scourge and nerfs condi scourge. 

To me, that's plainly nerf scourge and pretty hard nerf, I kind of don't believe that would be a decent balance, you will just p*ss off lots of scourge player.   I'm not saying its wrong, and even it's good...?, It just sounds like 100% nerf and scourge player gain nothing.  If I play scourge I would be sad.

Edited July 27, 2021 by elluka.5970

[elluka.5970]

21 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

These changes don’t sound fun. Maybe a better system is give scourge shade skills an animation so they cannot dish out barrier while stunned

yeah, you  two has similar opinion, If let shroud 5 of scourge (around 5k barrier) have mini cast time, player can actually stun them and try to kill, that sounds like rather easy to change.

 

But F2~F4 also have mini cast time, it's make it sounds like plain nerf again...