Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons Discussion Thread: Skiffs and Fishing [Merged]

[Omega.6801]

1) We haven't seen the exact ins and outs to this feature. We don't know about stats, how exactly the items will be aquired or in which way they effect fishing. Not sure how much suggestions are worth at this point or how much any idea from ou8tside the development process can actually be helpful to the devs.

2) This would lead to some classes being unwanted in fishing parties because fire burns, water is wet and MMO-players will minmax their loot per time. This is a philosophy Anet wants to keep out of their game asmuch as possibles, so I doubt they would want to this with a main feature of their upcoming expansion.

[Gibson.4036]

I saw the title of this thread and thought it was going to be in support of swimsuits.

[Psientist.6437]

I like the simplicity of the mini-game. I am looking for a reason to explore and collect. I also want a lot of fishing themed narrative design, especially NPC dialogue. I am glad to hear skiffs unlock the same way as basic mounts, just wish there were a 1-2 person version. I would also like to see weight and length stats applied for each fish, especially since collections can be repeated. Repeats could always deliver a new reward. With stats, time-limited collections work as derbies. 

These are some of my questions.

How many words of fishing themed dialogue so far? Obviously, the fishing story never ends. How many new NPCs? I would trade crafting equipment for dialogue.

Will fishing hole strikes be global or individual? Will I hate seeing a boat of other players? Will a party need to compete over each hole? Please, I don't want Tyrian fishing to be dominated by the train meta with each car competing internally.

If global, will fishing hole spawns behave similarly to common foes with a smart spawning behaviour? The solo fisher would be better protected from acute competition than the skiff.

How many fishing power buffs are there? If just one, how many sources besides party and/or proximity. I am not sure any of you are real. Being close makes it more confusing.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Psientist.6437

[Balsa.3951]

Watching the stream 

feedback

Thanks to collision, this will be a nice way to troll and to grief, thank u for that. (Nothing learned from Aviator Boxes In Auric Bashin)

Spaming Emotes for speed, why bother for that ? Just let people relax and enjoy the ride. I have enough keyboard hammering in game already.

 

Overall feedback

Boring as F@#$, If I ever wanted to realize I'm wasting my lifetime on a Game, fishing is the way to go. The Functionality of fishing itself feels like a Mobile game I had in 2005. 

To be fair it's fishing and how exciting can this be, so anet did it better than every other mmo. If U love to catch them all, that's power to u, but I pray anet still has something bigger to show of hidden.

 

Questions

Any Limit How many Boats at once in the water? 

Individual fishing Level contribute to overall fishing power? If so, will we see soon in LFG:  10 000 KP to join Skiff Party, Link ur Legendary Bait or kick.

How many people can stand on ur skiff at once? 

Will Skimmer collide with skiffs? Like, skiffs collide with each other.

Can I build a wall made of skiff to stop anyone to pass? 

 

 

 

[AgentMoore.9453]

44 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Thanks to collision, this will be a nice way to troll

I thought the same, but they clarify in the stream that the collision only occurs with other people in your party; other people and their boats would just pass right through you.

44 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Spaming Emotes for speed

I agree this is a weird choice. Are solo players going to be at a natural disadvantage in races and other boat content?

44 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Any Limit How many Boats at once in the water? 

Likely no limit. Skiffs are just mounts, so if you have 50 people in an area, I imagine you could have 50 boats. Even people in your party seem able to summon their own craft.

44 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

How many people can stand on ur skiff at once?

Five. You and your four party members. Anyone else will just fall through the boat, since the Skiff's mechanics are linked to the party of the person who spawned it.

44 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Will Skimmer collide with skiffs? Like, skiffs collide with each other.

If it's a party member ramming you with their Skimmer, then maybe. Otherwise no, no collision with non-party members.

My feedback:

Fishing:

- I couldn't tell from the stream if the fishing pole animations had been fixed, but they were distractingly wiggly in the promo video - I really hope that got solved, because it took away from the relaxing feel.
- I'm concerned by the visibility of other people's bobbers tangling up the screen as well as the ability to physically hide a fishing node with a skiff by parking on top of it (a show/hide other player mounts & vehicles option might be useful for this and several other circumstances). Visual noise has been an issue in the game for a while, so it's always disappointing to see more of it; bobbers should probably be clientside.
- Using skills 2 and 3 to control the reeling feels weird to me as well, but I'll have to try it myself before I can say if it's painful to the hand or not. I might have opted for mouse-based reeling and bobber control or a choice between cursor and keyboard control systems.
- It sounded to me like fishing nodes could be depleted, but it wasn't clear if that's on a per-party basis or if a single person or marauding group could tap out all the nodes in an area and create competition between players for resources in the open world. I'd expect that in WvW, but not so much in PvE; I hope that can be clarified and maybe adjusted.
- Repeatable collections were mentioned; happy about that if the reward is something useful - it seems to be a working system in maps like Drizzlewood, why not continue?
-No mention of uses for fish past cooking. If you haven't done this already, I suggest adding an aquarium that allows you to choose which fish are on display. Additionally, add 'fish on the wall' guild hall decorations that display different fish depending on which ones you use in the recipe. The stream said something about vendors with fishing rewards, so I'll wait and see if maybe that's what they mean.
- As implemented, fishing seems like it will only ever yield fish without chances at looting unidentified gear or fishing-related junk. Some people will be glad about that, but reeling in garbage from time to time would have given the activity a little more charm.
- There was mention of a 'Fishing Party' buff that I am sincerely hoping can be attained by both full parties and solo players (even if it takes a bit longer). Fishing is often a solo activity offline, and it'd be weird to punish that in GW2. Teaming up with others for a quicker route to success is fine, but it should feel optional.

Skiffs:
- Kinda disappointed that everyone sits so stiffly and teleports into their seats. The animations leave much to be desired, both for the passengers and the boat itself. It's been pointed out that the Skiffs don't maneuver like boats, but the visuals themselves are quite stiff and not as dynamic as mounts (whose movement looks and feels great for the most part).
- Pleased to see that the boats, when anchored, become portable platforms for the entire party and for the driver; that's versatile for more than fishing, especially if it gives you back your weapon skills (not sure if it does?).
- Lack of out-of-party collision removes the possibility of people barricading areas, which is nice. They can still park their boats in frustrating places, however, which is why some sort of visual toggle might be useful to have for Skiffs (and other mounts that are visually disruptive).

Obviously I'll have to sit down with these features and actually play with them to see how they feel and if they prove useful and versatile, but overall I'm just kinda.. whelmed? I'm glad we have fishing coming, but I don't know if it's gonna scratch the itch yet. Same for Skiffs, though those were less exciting to me given the mobility options we already have.

Edited September 11, 2021 by AgentMoore.9453
You ever do that thing where you type a completely different word than the one you were thinking of? Haha - I do that.

[anninke.7469]

I'd like to see the "fishing" we already have somehow included in the new system. Like getting fishing related drops when you kill underwater mobs and when you catch a fish using the bait in Thunderhead Peaks and during the fishing events in Bjora Marches.

[Tyncale.1629]

9 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

From what we have seen before in the trailer, there will also be trading as well as cooking involved in the whole fishing feature, so it might be more than "simplistic" in that regard - we'll see.

 

I think you are being too optimistic about this, I just read that as "you can sell the fish and use them in new recipes for food".  The video felt awkward to me with two people trying very hard to make mundane stuff sound new and interesting.  

 

I think Consumables in GW2 are a big bust anyway, a very underused feature.  99,99% of the food items are never used, there are maybe like 40 Food and Utility items that are meta, everybody uses those, the rest is worthless.  Hundreds if not thousands of items of which most have a unique Icon to boot, yet nobody cares about them. I always found this a huge waste of artist resources.   

Anyway, as another poster said, Fishing sounds like something that should have been added with a LW episode. It does not come near being a Major Expac feature, so far. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Tyncale.1629

[Esorono.1039]

1 hour ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

I think you are being too optimistic about this, I just read that as "you can sell the fish and use them in new recipes for food".  The video felt awkward to me with two people trying very hard to make mundane stuff sound new and interesting.  

 

I think Consumables in GW2 are a big bust anyway, a very underused feature.  99,99% of the food items are never used, there are maybe like 40 Food and Utility items that are meta, everybody uses those, the rest is worthless.  Hundreds if not thousands of items of which most have a unique Icon to boot, yet nobody cares about them. I always found this a huge waste of artist resources.   

Anyway, as another poster said, Fishing sounds like something that should have been added with a LW episode. It does not come near being a Major Expac feature, so far. 

I agree with this, and the fact that they couldn't even give enough content to make a 30 minute stream, with a good portion of it just being padding makes me feel like there isn't much more to it. They made this stream to hype us up about it, but all it did was shatter the illusion of what fishing could be for most people, with some just clinging on to hope that there is more to fishing. And I really don't think there is, they might have some things you can get only by trading in fish, like the Siege Turtle and some outfits, I know they are going to find some way to really push it on to us so that we have to fish to progress in EoD. And I am not looking forward to it. I feel most people will have fun for like 30 minutes to an hour, or for those easily entertained maybe a week. And then soon begrudgingly fish for whatever they need and never do it again. It's not like mounts or gliding where they themselves are the reward, the reward for fishing is getting stuff that you want, they are glorified chest mini-games.

[Tatwi.3562]

As a person who pre-ordered EoD explicitly for the fishing content, I liked what I saw in the stream, except for...

- Groups of people will always be faster in any races than solo people. This would be fine if the races tracked solo and groups seperately (which makes logical sense - dragon boat vs. kayak).

- Skiff are neat, but I would honestly prefer a kayak and a canoe. Both can be single and dual seat.

- 2/3 skill buttons along with mouse pointer controls for bobber positioning may hinder one handed and otherwise challenged players. These may well be the same players who will most enjoy this non-combat activity. Please consider making a mouse-only control mode or ability binding (scroll up/down for 2/3 with a min delay of .25 seconds per scroll perhaps).

 

I appreciate this content, because for 8.5 years most of my time in the game has been spent exploring the world and gathering resources. It's entirely why I play the game. I look forward to rolling a new character, modeled after my late brother who loved fishing, and taking my time while exploring Tyria again. In real life i haven't fished since I was a pre-teen 35 years ago, but I like doing it as a side activity in games. There is so much chaos beyond the screen, it's nice to relax elsewhere.

 

Once again the cabal of frequent forum naysayers are here to tell us how awful and pointless this content is, yet they are but forty or so people out of a community of millions. What I can say from 8.5 years of actual game play is that it's exceedingly rare for 5 minutes to go by when without seeing another person who is harvesting and wandering the same as me, regardless of the map and the crazy times of day I often play. The fishing content will be greatly enjoyed by millions of paying customers. Thank you for making it.

[Ashantara.8731]

2 hours ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

I think you are being too optimistic about this, I just read that as "you can sell the fish and use them in new recipes for food".  The video felt awkward to me with two people trying very hard to make mundane stuff sound new and interesting.

Oh, I absolutely agree! The video was awful, I made fun of it all week after watching it for the very reasons you mentioned.

And I am not being optimistic here, I am merely saying that one shouldn't judge until one has seen the final product.

8 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said:

Any Limit How many Boats at once in the water? 

That's a concern of mine as well. Imagine all waters in Tyria being overpopulated not only by fish but also by player characters.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Tyncale.1629]

2 hours ago, Esorono.1039 said:

I agree with this, and the fact that they couldn't even give enough content to make a 30 minute stream, with a good portion of it just being padding makes me feel like there isn't much more to it. They made this stream to hype us up about it, but all it did was shatter the illusion of what fishing could be for most people, with some just clinging on to hope that there is more to fishing. And I really don't think there is, they might have some things you can get only by trading in fish, like the Siege Turtle and some outfits, I know they are going to find some way to really push it on to us so that we have to fish to progress in EoD. And I am not looking forward to it. I feel most people will have fun for like 30 minutes to an hour, or for those easily entertained maybe a week. And then soon begrudgingly fish for whatever they need and never do it again. It's not like mounts or gliding where they themselves are the reward, the reward for fishing is getting stuff that you want, they are glorified chest mini-games.

Yes, I am sure there will also be recipes for Lures and Bait, and collections attached to that, and recipes for Ascended bait to catch the really rare stuff (probably with a group) but that still can not really excite me.  The minigame is just not interesting and even though it might be somewhat fitting to Fishing (keep a tight line all the time but not TOO tight) it seems boring and possibly a hurdle to the physically challenged.  I am guessing you will want to do most fishing in a group since that seems to speed things up big time and probably also give you the higher tiers fish. Not necessarily a bad thing but some people may not like it. Also Fish should really be more then just more Food. If anything, give us that Aquarium. 

 

I have seen minigames for Diplomacy (dialogue with NPC's) in Vanguard that resembled a game like Magic the Gathering, though I will admit that it would not really be fitting to use for Fishing. 🙂 Same for Lockpicking which were true minipuzzles  where you have to line up tumblers and such, I have seen rock/paper/scissors type minigames, the Oblivion dialogue minigame, hell even Everquest 2 crafting was more fun then this moving-bar thingy.  The graphics of those minigames were also much more beautiful. I was really expecting something good looking and involved, because this is what Anet managed to do with Mounts and Gliding.

 

But I will give them the benefit of the doubt and expect the minigame to become better, and better looking. 😃

Edited September 11, 2021 by Tyncale.1629

[Quench.7091]

The cheering on the skiffs might get a little weird, now that I think about it. It does give players reason to group up and a way to actively help out your party, but its strength is also a weakness. Players could be seen as detrimental if they don't cheer.

It might be a good idea to treat cheering more like a vigor buff that is maintained by people cheering once in awhile, rather than cheering every chance they get. This could also allow for a smaller group to keep pace with larger groups, which is important for populating a race or keeping players closer together. If you have 7 friends split upon 2 boats, should the boat with 3 friends move slower than the boat with 4? Just something to think about.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Quench.7091

[Psientist.6437]

13 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

- It sounded to me like fishing nodes could be depleted, but it wasn't clear if that's on a per-party basis or if a single person or marauding group could tap out all the nodes in an area and create competition between players for resources in the open world. I'd expect that in WvW, but not so much in PvE; I hope that can be clarified and maybe adjusted.
 

 

How fishing holes are depleted needs to be clarified. Fishing doesn't need to be the most competitive PvE content. If fishing holes are depleted globally, even individuals within a party would need to compete. I have always been an advocate for fishing but fishing isn't worth adding competition (outside of the BLTP) over PvE resources.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Psientist.6437

[Gibson.4036]

9 minutes ago, Psientist.6437 said:

 

How fishing holes are depleted needs to be clarified. Fishing doesn't need to be the most competitive PvE content. If fishing holes are depleted globally, even individuals within a party would need to compete. I have always been an advocate for fishing but fishing isn't worth adding competition (outside of the BLTP) over PvE resources.

They’ve been pretty adamant about making sure this kind of thing doesn’t happen. It’d be in keeping with the rest of the game’s design if each person has a limited number of casts before the spot is depleted for them until a period of time has past.

Never unhappy to see another player has been a core tenet from before launch, and seems to still be.

I know people will argue that. Mounts are one point of contention. But I can’t imagine ANet suddenly going 180 for fishing nodes.

[AgentMoore.9453]

10 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

But I can’t imagine ANet suddenly going 180 for fishing nodes.

I do hope you're right about this, because during the stream one of the party members mentions that they've 'emptied out the hot spot', which sounds an awful lot like the node having a set amount of catches in it that once reached (by anyone) shuts it down for other people. If it's per party, that's not really an issue since fishing in a party looks like it's going to be faster yield with mutual benefit and hopping between nodes wouldn't be a big deal, but if it's global and groups or efficient players will be able to clean out a whole area, it's a problem.

Best to address these concerns before the launch of the feature, or clarify them if they've already been considered. It's strange; fishing and Skiffs have been announced three times now and I still have so many questions. Weird feeling.

[Psientist.6437]

20 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I do hope you're right about this, because during the stream one of the party members mentions that they've 'emptied out the hot spot', which sounds an awful lot like the node having a set amount of catches in it that once reached (by anyone) shuts it down for other people. If it's per party, that's not really an issue since fishing in a party looks like it's going to be faster yield with mutual benefit and hopping between nodes wouldn't be a big deal, but if it's global and groups or efficient players will be able to clean out a whole area, it's a problem.

Best to address these concerns before the launch of the feature, or clarify them if they've already been considered. It's strange; fishing and Skiffs have been announced three times now and I still have so many questions. Weird feeling.

I hope so as well and fishing holes were clearly described as being depleted. How Rubi referred to depletion sounded as though she were informing the group of something relevant to the group, not the individual. The party could leave a hole because it was depleted for the party.

The competition would be most acute within parties. There is no statistical argument that hitting many fishing holes would equalize yields among individuals. Over many holes, any differences in skill or timing will be multiplied. Someone who needs 4 seconds to catch a fish will end up with a smaller share of the total number of fish from holes than someone who only needs 3 seconds.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Psientist.6437

[Ashantara.8731]

I find the whole party aspect of it stressful.

If fishing was indeed introduced as a leisure thing, it should be single-player, not group content. Then the hot spots could be individual instead of global, meaning that each person sees only their own personal hot spots which are being generated locally for you.

Not sure the current concept will remain fun over time if you can't do it in a relaxed way at your own pace.

[castlemanic.3198]

Fishing isn't very exciting for me, and i dearly hope that i don't need to go fishing to finish the story, but i'll buckle up and do it if necessary, just won't be very happy about it. i do see how they're trying to make fishing more engaging with the minigame but it just doesn't appeal to me at all. at least the people who asked for fishing are getting their wish fulfilled.

 

with that said, i kinda like the skiff. the masteries aren't all that inspired but i did hope we'd get boats eventually, even if the skiff is primarily for fishing purposes. maybe one day we'll get combat boats but for now i like how the technology works, it'll be a fun addition to the mount collection for me, even if i won't get the most out of skiffs.

 

overall, not terribly impressed, they're going to be fun additions for some but not others. we'll see what happens in the future once EoD releases. but honestly, i don't think EoD needs to push the envelope all that much as long as it's a solid expansion with a well told story. while skiffs and fishing aren't all that exciting to many, hopefully the siege turtle and the last two mastery tracks can be.

[Psientist.6437]

I believe the fishing power buff requires proximity. The group or social aspect is minor. The only benefit I see from being in a party is to min/max and socialize. So far, fishing looks like something that anyone can do at their own pace.

Skiffs may even be light on group activities. Those last two masteries better not be naval combat masteries. That would be awful. The last thing any of us want is naval combat.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Psientist.6437

[Cyndercat.7615]

18 minutes ago, Psientist.6437 said:

The last thing any of us want is naval combat.

Speak for yourself

[Psientist.6437]

1 hour ago, zombyturtle.5980 said:

Speak for yourself

I don't think anyone would be interested in naval combat. Sure, faction PvP from GW1 could be re-imagined as naval combat. Big Deal. Skiffs could attack an island defended by siege turtles. Weeeee! /s

 

I regret bringing up something so boring.

[steinnovels.9675]

In the stream you can see That the fishing node is individual client based just like ore, wood and plant nodes. You can tell because when they switch from Ruby to Nick he still had the fishing hole visible while Ruby did not.  I think that you can catch 3 to 4 fish per node and that fishing holes only give a better chance at rarer fish than just fishing anywhere.

 

I also see fishing as a way to bring Jewel crafting to 500. After all what is a lure but just fishing line jewelry?

 

Honestly, I am still undecided about fishing. Do I think it is something necessary, no. Do I think it is a nice way to spend time when waiting for a party member to finish their crafting, trading post sales, or deciding which piece of armor to transmute or dye so you can finally meet up? A resounding yes.

 

I think that an aquarium may be nice in your home instance but I think it is far more likely that there will be a home instance "fishing pool" added in shortly after EoD launches. I also would like to add harvesting glyphs to fishing poles, catch a fish and have a 33% chance at getting cloth or leather or whatever bonus the glyph adds.

Edited September 12, 2021 by steinnovels.9675
Miss added spaces and additional thought.

[Daishi.6027]

On 7/30/2021 at 4:21 PM, Daishi.6027 said:

I don't care about fishing I can take it or leave it; it's fine I guess.

What really matters are the Skiffs!

If these are measly dingy boats: Sorry that is not a substitute for player housing and is pretty disappointing. I get they are "skiffs" but a proper yacht would have been far more ideal. I imagine that will be gemstone bait, but what really matters then is functionality and the scale of limitations allowed.

If it's a multi mount skimmer you can simply fish off of: That is profoundly disappointing. Players at minimum need to be able to stop driving it, and walk around on it.

If this does not have collision so that friends and rondos can seamlessly hop on and off the boat; that is also disappointing.

I'm already disillusioned to this game because of PvP and WvW, and anticipating another 50% mesmer elite spec nerf, and butchering of mesmer power specs in competitive modes; at this point I am not interested in paying for the expac at all. 
If the game has the above level of functionality that could sway the PvE side of me to purchase. 

So... I wasn't gonna get EoD... Still disappointed with quite a few things in the current game.

But... That collision tho..., That Party collision tho... You might have just sold me. Still on the fence but uhhh, gently leaning towards the getting it camp.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Daishi.6027

[strangewayes.2509]

I'd personally love to see some sort of interaction with the fish you see swimming around in the open world, perhaps for rare fish. Ever since playing Ocarina of Time's ridiculously cool fishing mini-game as a child, I've pined for legitimate open-world fishing where you can capture the fish you see, rather than the "pools" you find.

 

If you've never played OoT, you can skim through this:

Ocarina of Time Fishing mini-game

[ROMANG.1903]

Fishing and skiffs are a nice little touch, but let's be real: It's definitely not an expansion-level feature.

I won't be buying skiff skins nearly as eagerly (if at all) as I do mounts and gliders. Maybe if a really good boat design comes up, but that doesn't seem to be possible unless ANet is willing to drastically alter the shape of the skiff through skins. And even then, one or two would suffise. I also don't like that the main ability is a boring speed boost: Abilities that you just have to spam on cooldown are not an engaging gameplay.

As for fishing, I was really hoping they would manage to turn this dull feature into something interesting, but the bar slider misses the mark for me. At this point, just make it like gathering nodes and don't have us bothered with unnecessary minigames.

Edited September 12, 2021 by ROMANG.1903