Our New Mesmer Elite Specialization: The Virtuoso

[AXLIB.8425]

19 minutes ago, Kondor.2904 said:

Well, yeah, mesmer has always revolved around active defense and damage avoidance rather than facetanking and outhealing damage, so I wouldn't be expecting such kind of sustain from any new elite spec. 

I don't expect that kind of sustain for a basic power dps elite unless it is on guardian, I'm just pointing out that mesmer main form of defence and damage avoidance is clones, and now that this elite lost that the only thing that it has that disengage which means it best perform as a +1 glass-cannon what relies on killing the opponent fast and disengage when you can't do that. And judging from the past when mesmer have this kind of build people complained about it like crazy which resulted it got nerfed like crazy, this elite will be butchered like the rest of mesmer elite.

Edited July 27, 2021 by AXLIB.8425

[Jojo.6590]

Just going to leave this here, also very excited for this elit spec, though it looks like it could us more mobility.

 

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/powerlisting/images/f/f7/Gate_Of_Babylon.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150412151228

Edited July 27, 2021 by Jojo.6590

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I wonder if some people who posts here even plays mesmer...
If you spec a defensive core traitline your power damage will be pathetic, so instead of posting here "core traitlines are sustain enough" bs, you should learn to power mesmer.

[Kondor.2904]

5 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I wonder if some people who posts here even plays mesmer...
If you spec a defensive core traitline your power damage will be pathetic, so instead of posting here "core traitlines are sustain enough" bs, you should learn to power mesmer.

Your dmg won't be pathetic if you spec a single defensive traitline out of 3. Literally every incarnation of power mesmer has been utilizing 1 defensive traitline and 2 offensive ones.

[Allarius.5670]

Additional things to note upon watching closely.

• Weapon skills, profession skills, and utilities all have the "blade" designator.

 

Looks like there are traits that perform the following:

• Blades inflict vulnerability on strike.
• Phantasms fire a blade at their target when they complete their attack.
• Phantasm skills inflict vulnerability on strike (the ability the Mesmer performs, not the skill the Phantasm performs)

 

Anyone find anything else?

[SkyCake.4216]

Edit: My thoughts were kind of all over the place. 

 

Functionally, I think it looks like a great addition to Mesmer. Mechanically, I think it's a bit more "vanilla" than I would personally want. Even more-so from a Mesmer. 

 

I also think the way the reveal was shown was kind of boring and would have liked to have seen a snippet of more natural gameplay at the end. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by SkyCakeLight.3750

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

6 minutes ago, Kondor.2904 said:

Your dmg won't be pathetic if you spec a single defensive traitline out of 3. Literally every incarnation of power mesmer has been utilizing 1 defensive traitline and 2 offensive ones.

Your damage will be pathetic, literally every incarnation of power mesmer uses Dom/Duel , Dom/Illu or Duel/Illu + chrono/mirage which obviously will be replaced by Virtuoso.

On vanilla time, Core used 3 damage traitlines.

 

18 minutes ago, Jojo.6590 said:

Just going to leave this here, also very excited for this elit spec, though it looks like it could us more mobility.

 

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/powerlisting/images/f/f7/Gate_Of_Babylon.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150412151228

TBH I prefer the Keijo version. 😁

 

[AXLIB.8425]

5 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I wonder if some people who posts here even plays mesmer...
If you spec a defensive core traitline your power damage will be pathetic, so instead of posting here "core traitlines are sustain enough" bs, you should learn to power mesmer.

The answer is they don't, they pretend they understand mesmer when they played it once or twice, or looked at all of the class trait line and skill, so they can keep their lens of mesmer is an overpowered class like guardian and can do everything at the same time. 

[Arheundel.6451]

19 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I wonder if some people who posts here even plays mesmer...
If you spec a defensive core traitline your power damage will be pathetic, so instead of posting here "core traitlines are sustain enough" bs, you should learn to power mesmer.

Wait! You mean......you don't have sustain if you slot a defensive line?.....Wow god forbid the rest of the GW2 playerbase gets to feel like the ele community for the last 10 years, imagine being forced to choose between sustain or damage ..the horror...

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

12 minutes ago, Allarius.5670 said:

Additional things to note upon watching closely.

• Weapon skills, profession skills, and utilities all have the "blade" designator.

 

Looks like there are traits that perform the following:

• Blades inflict vulnerability on strike.
• Phantasms fire a blade at their target when they complete their attack.
• Phantasm skills inflict vulnerability on strike (the ability the Mesmer performs, not the skill the Phantasm performs)

 

Anyone find anything else?

 

Considering how many persistent aoes like dagger 2 and 3, shatter 4, that blade rainfall utility and the elite skill, my theory is that the traits will focus on cripple/immob rather than vulnerability.

[AXLIB.8425]

19 minutes ago, Kondor.2904 said:

Your dmg won't be pathetic if you spec a single defensive traitline out of 3. Literally every incarnation of power mesmer has been utilizing 1 defensive traitline and 2 offensive ones.

the 2 offensive has to be domination or duelling otherwise the damage is going to be trash, unless the new trait line can outshine the domination and duelling combo it going to have crap sustain since you can't take inspiration, and once again if it outshine it, there is a chance of domination + duelling + new elite trait line is going to be deleting others really fast in pvp which will just result in domination and duelling to be further nerfed.

Edited July 27, 2021 by AXLIB.8425

[Daniel Handler.4816]

1 minute ago, SkyCakeLight.3750 said:

I don't think it looks bad. And, readily confess my opinion can easily be swayed when I play it. But, currently it looks a little "meh" to me. The new shatters are just the old ones. The new abilities on the dagger look cool and I really like the idea of stacking attacks on a target. Essentially just moves the AA combo chain to the enemy rather than the player. But, it doesn't really change anything aside from dying mobs interrupting your chain. Super glad it's range. The utility skills looked really cool, but again don't really do anything. 

 

they are damage, confusion, cc, defense like shatters, but they seem to be line spells instead of point blank on target. the positioning should be much different.

[Allarius.5670]

21 minutes ago, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

 

Considering how many persistent aoes like dagger 2 and 3, shatter 4, that blade rainfall utility and the elite skill, my theory is that the traits will focus on cripple/immob rather than vulnerability.

 

Other than synergy, what suggests to you this theory?

 

The vulnerability effects described are not listed in the tool tips but show up in the video when watched closely. This suggests trait interactions, whether the Virtuoso trait line or reworked core traits. Could also be a Virtuoso rune come to think of it ...

[AXLIB.8425]

On 7/27/2021 at 3:14 PM, Arheundel.6451 said:

Wait! You mean......you don't have sustain if you slot a defensive line?.....Wow god forbid the rest of the GW2 playerbase gets to feel like the ele community for the last 10 years, imagine being forced to choose between sustain or damage ..the horror...

yes, lets completely ignore focus and the insane amount of barrier weaver generate while they cc, applies condi, delete projectile and 1v3ing  with only weaver trait line.

Edited August 2, 2021 by AXLIB.8425

[Kondor.2904]

Just now, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Your damage will be pathetic, literally every incarnation of power mesmer uses Dom/Duel , Dom/Illu or Duel/Illu + chrono/mirage which obviously will be replaced by Virtuoso.

pChrono builds are an equivalent of playing core with 3 offensive traitlines. These glass cannons builds do not count as relevant.

Since when mirage is an offensive power traitline ? It has 0 dmg modifiers and its main purpose is either defense or utility oriented. And the only utility that counts as an "offensive" one is now obsolete and only helps stacking vuln from gs clone ambushes which is already covered by domi anyway in the relevant builds.

Core power mesmer, that as been much more popular build pick among the EU pvp ladders before mantra gutting, uses 1 defensive traitline, because guess what, you already get most dmg modifiers from 2 offensive traitlines and minor dmg buff from the 3rd  in most cases doesn't justify losing a defensive trait like PU or Distortion of signets.

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

Just now, Allarius.5670 said:

 

Other than synergy, what suggests to you this theory?

 

The vulnerability effects described are not listed in the tool tips but show up in the video when watched closely. This suggests trait interactions, whether the Virtuoso trait line or reworked core traits. Could also be a Virtuoso rune come to think of it ...

 

Ah, I didn't notice the vulnerability being applied.

Like I said, it was just a theory. It felt like it made sense and created a playstyle.

[Arheundel.6451]

23 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

yes, lets completely ignore focus and the insane amount of barrier weaver generate while they cc, applies condi, delete projectile with only weaver trait line.

Insane barrier generation...did you check the numbers correctly Pal? Also you said it right...ele sacrifice mobility and damage for sustain  while using defensive utilities...you can do the same by using torch, decoy, blink...plenty of defensive options when you invest in it! I love nothing more than to see the same treatment eles have received since launch being extended to other professions....trade damage for sustain and viceversa... it'd be about kitten time

[Xaylin.1860]

First of all, I understand some people being salty because it is not what they have been hoping for. But that's how life is. It's ANets creative decision. Personally, I would have enjoyed an actually music themed spec, but not as classic support. More as offensive support and debuffer. I wasn't looking for a power spec. Maybe I'll get lucky with the debuff/CC part, though. The +% damage vs. inactive foes on Shatters hints at this type of gameplay.

 

Finally had time to watch the stream. The more obvious things in short:

 

Pros

• Cloneless. Yes. Love it. Better work with switching targets at least while in combat.
• Shatters with different application (ranged)
• Ranged Power MH
• Properly thoughtout 'Resource' system (no Mirrors, Heat not being on base weapons)
• Probably good addition for OW or larger scale WvW (3rd pillar of GW2, you guys! 😅)
• New technology on AA? (hits are 'tracked')

 

Cons

• Shatter effects are basically the same. F2 is most likely wasted (condi on non-condi spec). Buh!
• Utilities seem unfinished/redundant
• The music part of the spec seems tagged on (could still be salvaged, imho)

 

Especially the last part feels like ANet wants to please everyone at first glance. However, the circular shapes could easily relate to the church like buildings/windows - sorry, didn't play GW1 - and the House of Bauer (Lyssa, Arts, Music). Meaning, it could make sense in the end when everything is finished. Just remind yourself how aweful Daredevil looked in the first beta.

 

I'm looking forward to learn more, especially about traits and wether there is CC and debuff related stuff in there. I'd also like to know more about the mechanic (and about Sword #3 🤔). The Bladedancer concept overall is quite smart, considering Mesmers will have access to all available blades in the game (GS, Swords, Dagger) although I hate Dagger/Sword set ups. Having the MH being shorter just feels unappealing. I also would have preferred a bow. Still, this will give us more opportunities to use our OHs. Even though the Shatters seem to be projectiles (doesn't say Projectile finisher, though!), it will be beneficial to Mesmers when compared to having Illusions in larger scale fights which just pop after 1 sec anyway. However, I do share the concern regarding having to target a foe with some skills. Most Utilities are rather unimpressive. The Heal seems nice. I do like me some Distortion. I also enjoy the push. Area immobilize feels a bit random at this point. Wonder why ANet runs out of ideas for effects on area skills on Mesmer? (Wells... Glamours...)

 

One thing, that rubbed me the wrong way: It seeming to be a power DPS spec. I had the sneaking suspicion this might happen when they nerfed power damage on Chrono. But at this point baseline Mesmer and the older e-specs really need some attention. What is the point of Chrono when Alacrity is handed out to Mirage like candy? What is it's secondary function if not power damage? It could be healing, but then Inspiration would need a rework. And ANet should seriously reconsider reworking all damage related traits in Chrono in favor for more supportive stuff or maybe some offensive debuffing (e.g. more Slow and maybe some Chill). Mirage is a totally different beast. Mirrors are a huge fail. So is Mirage Cloak and it being so heavily linked to Utilities. I still believe all Mirage-Shatters should be reworked to incorporate Ambush triggers, but I guess such a big rework is unrealistic. But that Alacrity on Mirage... ANet... please... I don't even know what to say. 🤐 If it was boon share on Dune Cloak or something... But this? 🥴

 

 

23 hours ago, Allarius.5670 said:

Additional things to note upon watching closely.

• Weapon skills, profession skills, and utilities all have the "blade" designator.

 

Looks like there are traits that perform the following:

• Blades inflict vulnerability on strike.
• Phantasms fire a blade at their target when they complete their attack.
• Phantasm skills inflict vulnerability on strike (the ability the Mesmer performs, not the skill the Phantasm performs)

 

Anyone find anything else?

 

It is likely that we will have 'On Blade' traits like Explosions for Engineer.

Vulnerability seems to be on Crit, not necessarily 'On Blade'. He also seems to have Domination equipped because he causes Vulnerability on Daze. So we got to be careful with that. Not too excited about all the Vulnerability because we had plenty on Shatter already but it is a nice interaction with Domination.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Xaylin.1860

[RabbitUp.8294]

Sword 3 will most likely get a rework, or at least work differently with this spec. It will probably become a targeted shadowstep.

 

Hyped for this spec as well as pistol necro. My only gripe is that my mesmer is asura and daggers are all but invisible when wielded by them.

 

Sidenote, Marjory's dagger has special projectiles (green snakes), so now mesmer can cosplay necro.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

36 minutes ago, Kondor.2904 said:

pChrono builds are an equivalent of playing core with 3 offensive traitlines. These glass cannons builds do not count as relevant.

Since when mirage is an offensive power traitline ? It has 0 dmg modifiers and its main purpose is either defense or utility oriented. And the only utility that counts as an "offensive" one is now obsolete and only helps stacking vuln from gs clone ambushes which is already covered by domi anyway in the relevant builds.

Core power mesmer, that as been much more popular build pick among the EU pvp ladders before mantra gutting, uses 1 defensive traitline, because guess what, you already get most dmg modifiers from 2 offensive traitlines and minor dmg buff from the 3rd  in most cases doesn't justify losing a defensive trait like PU or Distortion of signets.

These glass cannons  builds are all that power mesmer ever had.

Mirage? We're talking about the core traits are enough sustain, unless you want to spec the famous dual elite traitlines.

I guess reading isn't your forte (ah see what I did here music enthusiasts?), again we're talking specing core/core/virtuoso.

 

[Xaylin.1860]

2 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Sword 3 will most likely get a rework, or at least work differently with this spec. It will probably become a targeted shadowstep.

Yes, hoping for this since they changed Earthen Rush. Would finally give Sword more mobility. #3 has been annyoing to use for ages.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

5 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

First of all, I understand some people being salty because it is not what they have been hoping for. But that's how life is. It's ANets creative decision. Personally, I would have enjoyed an actually music themed spec, but not as classic support. More as offensive support and debuffer. I wasn't looking for a power spec. Maybe I'll get lucky with the debuff/CC part, though. The +% damage vs. inactive foes on Shatters hints at this type of gameplay.

 

Finally had time to watch the stream. The more obvious things in short:

 

Pros

• Cloness. Yes. Love it. Better work with switching targets at least while in combat.
• Shatters with different application (ranged)
• Ranged Power MH
• Properly thoughtout 'Resource' system (no Mirrors, Heat not being on base weapons)
• Probably good addition for OW or larger scale WvW (3rd pillar of GW2, you guys! 😅)
• New technology on AA? (hits are 'tracked')

 

Cons

• Shatter effects are basically the same. F2 is most likely wasted (condi on non-condi spec). Buh!
• Utilities seem unfinished/redundant
• The music part of the spec seems tagged on (could still be salvaged, imho)

 

Especially the last part feels like ANet wants to please everyone at first glance. However, the circular shapes could easily relate to the church like buildings/windows - sorry, didn't play GW1 - and the House of Bauer (Lyssa, Arts, Music). Meaning, it could make sense in the end when everything is finished. Just remind yourself how aweful Daredevil looked in the first beta.

 

I'm looking forward to learn more, especially about traits and wether there is CC and debuff related stuff in there. I'd also like to know more about the mechanic (and about Sword #3 🤔). The Bladedancer concept overall is quite smart, considering Mesmers will have access to all available blades in the game (GS, Swords, Dagger) although I hate Dagger/Sword set ups. Having the MH being shorter just feels unappealing. I also would have preferred a bow. Still, this will give us more opportunities to use our OHs. Even though the Shatters seem to be projectiles (doesn't say Projectile finisher, though!), it will be beneficial to Mesmers when compared to having Illusions in larger scale fights which just pop after 1 sec anyway. However, I do share the concern regarding having to target a foe with some skills. Most Utilities are rather unimpressive. The Heal seems nice. I do like me some Distortion. I also enjoy the push. Area immobilize feels a bit random at this point. Wonder why ANet runs out of ideas for effects on area skills on Mesmer? (Wells... Glamours...)

 

One thing, that rubbed me the wrong way: It seeming to be a power DPS spec. I had the sneaking suspicion this might happen when they nerfed power damage on Chrono. But at this point baseline Mesmer and the older e-specs really need some attention. What is the point of Chrono when Alacrity is handed out to Mirage like candy? What is it's secondary function if not power damage? It could be healing, but then Inspiration would need a rework. And ANet should seriously reconsider reworking all damage related traits in Chrono in favor for more supportive stuff or maybe some offensive debuffing (e.g. more Slow and maybe some Chill). Mirage is a totally different beast. Mirrors are a huge fail. So is Mirage Cloak and it being so heavily linked to Utilities. I still believe all Mirage-Shatters should be reworked to incorporate Ambush triggers, but I guess such a big rework is unrealistic. But that Alacrity on Mirage... ANet... please... I don't even know what to say. 🤐 If it was boon share on Dune Cloak or something... But this? 🥴

 

 

 

It is likely that we will have 'On Blade' traits like Explosions for Engineer.

Vulnerability seems to be on Crit, not necessarily 'On Blade'. He also seems to have Domination equipped because he causes Vulnerability on Daze. So we got to be careful with that. Not too excited about all the Vulnerability because we had plenty on Shatter already but it is a nice interaction with Domination.

 

 

chrono will still be the power spec for bosses, and quickness. this spec seems more based around burst.

 

 

[Allarius.5670]

8 minutes ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

First of all, I understand some people being salty because it is not what they have been hoping for. But that's how life is. It's ANets creative decision. Personally, I would have enjoyed an actually music themed spec, but not as classic support. More as offensive support and debuffer. I wasn't looking for a power spec. Maybe I'll get lucky with the debuff/CC part, though. The +% damage vs. inactive foes on Shatters hints at this type of gameplay.

 

Finally had time to watch the stream. The more obvious things in short:

 

Pros

• Cloness. Yes. Love it. Better work with switching targets at least while in combat.
• Shatters with different application (ranged)
• Ranged Power MH
• Properly thoughtout 'Resource' system (no Mirrors, Heat not being on base weapons)
• Probably good addition for OW or larger scale WvW (3rd pillar of GW2, you guys! 😅)
• New technology on AA? (hits are 'tracked')

 

Cons

• Shatter effects are basically the same. F2 is most likely wasted (condi on non-condi spec). Buh!
• Utilities seem unfinished/redundant
• The music part of the spec seems tagged on (could still be salvaged, imho)

 

Especially the last part feels like ANet wants to please everyone at first glance. However, the circular shapes could easily relate to the church like buildings/windows - sorry, didn't play GW1 - and the House of Bauer (Lyssa, Arts, Music). Meaning, it could make sense in the end when everything is finished. Just remind yourself how aweful Daredevil looked in the first beta.

 

I'm looking forward to learn more, especially about traits and wether there is CC and debuff related stuff in there. I'd also like to know more about the mechanic (and about Sword #3 🤔). The Bladedancer concept overall is quite smart, considering Mesmers will have access to all available blades in the game (GS, Swords, Dagger) although I hate Dagger/Sword set ups. Having the MH being shorter just feels unappealing. I also would have preferred a bow. Still, this will give us more opportunities to use our OHs. Even though the Shatters seem to be projectiles (doesn't say Projectile finisher, though!), it will be beneficial to Mesmers when compared to having Illusions in larger scale fights which just pop after 1 sec anyway. However, I do share the concern regarding having to target a foe with some skills. Most Utilities are rather unimpressive. The Heal seems nice. I do like me some Distortion. I also enjoy the push. Area immobilize feels a bit random at this point. Wonder why ANet runs out of ideas for effects on area skills on Mesmer? (Wells... Glamours...)

 

One thing, that rubbed me the wrong way: It seeming to be a power DPS spec. I had the sneaking suspicion this might happen when they nerfed power damage on Chrono. But at this point baseline Mesmer and the older e-specs really need some attention. What is the point of Chrono when Alacrity is handed out to Mirage like candy? What is it's secondary function if not power damage? It could be healing, but then Inspiration would need a rework. And ANet should seriously reconsider reworking all damage related traits in Chrono in favor for more supportive stuff or maybe some offensive debuffing (e.g. more Slow and maybe some Chill). Mirage is a totally different beast. Mirrors are a huge fail. So is Mirage Cloak and it being so heavily linked to Utilities. I still believe all Mirage-Shatters should be reworked to incorporate Ambush triggers, but I guess such a big rework is unrealistic. But that Alacrity on Mirage... ANet... please... I don't even know what to say. 🤐 If it was boon share on Dune Cloak or something... But this? 🥴

 

 

 

It is likely that we will have 'On Blade' traits like Explosions for Engineer.

Vulnerability seems to be on Crit, not necessarily 'On Blade'. He also seems to have Domination equipped because he causes Vulnerability on Daze. So we got to be careful with that. Not too excited about all the Vulnerability because we had plenty on Shatter already but it is a nice interaction with Domination.

 

 

 

Oh, for sure care should be taken, but snooping for clues is fun all the same! 🙂 

 

The +Bladesong dmg on inactive foes is also likely from Domination. 

 

Regarding vuln on blades vs crit, both possibilities are inconsistent in the footage. That is to say, there are cases when a "blade" classed skill is used and vuln is not applied, and there are also cases when crits occur and vuln is not applied. Something regular is going on though.

[Xaylin.1860]

Just now, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

chrono will still be the power spec for bosses, and quickness. this spec seems more based around burst.

 

 

I don't think we can really tell wether it will just be bursty or also pack DPS. Just bursty would be disappointing considering we already had that with baseline power Shatter since launch.

 

The requirement of having Slow up might indeed work for coordinated PvE content but is quite useless in many other cases. I'm not against niche uses for traits and skills. But that's like 33% of Chrono traits. Would be a pitty if it turned out this way.

[Xaylin.1860]

2 minutes ago, Allarius.5670 said:

The +Bladesong dmg on inactive foes is also likely from Domination. 

 

Regarding vuln on blades vs crit, both possibilities are inconsistent in the footage. That is to say, there are cases when a "blade" classed skill is used and vuln is not applied, and there are also cases when crits occur and vuln is not applied. Something regular is going on though.

Arrrrg, you're right with the inactive foes. kitten.

 

To me, it did feel like Vulnerability was on Crit... but I'm too tired to watch it again haha.