Our New Mesmer Elite Specialization: The Virtuoso

[Salt Mode.3780]

2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Like people said landing a new shatter will be difficult since the windup is enormous. To add to that, based on the numbers on damage I would say IP is gone on Virt, so no f3 to f1 burst.

Amen to this I don't know if anyone carefully watched the video but shatters are casted rather then being instant, with the long windup cast and the LARGE tells it is easily dodge-able/interruptible. 

 

2 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

 

The distortion doesn't root, it's the same as the guardian elite, you channel it, but you can move.

 

It also has a 3 sec block on a 30s cooldown, on top of everything else mesmer has, it will be fine.

Care to elaborate "on top of everything else mesmer has" you mean using blink, signet of midnight, daze mantra, mirror image, mass invis....so basically everything core and every other mesmer spec builds...got it thanks. I had no clue we had so much options...

Edited July 28, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Gryxis.6950]

I don't get the point of anet putting a condi shatter on f2 when, without clones, condi virtuoso will never be viable

[Fueki.4753]

19 minutes ago, Gryxis.6950 said:

I don't get the point of anet putting a condi shatter on f2 when, without clones, condi virtuoso will never be viable

I think it's due to how Shatter #2 works with certain traits.

Cry of Pain (an Illusions minor) adds more confusion and makes Confusing have a longer duration.

This trait might bug out, if there's no confusion on Shatter #2.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

Another thing that's really worrying me and I'm not seeing anyone talk about is wether or not we can move while channeling the shatter skills.

I'm reviewing the first look video, and he seems to never move while channeling.

 

It's one thing to have easily dodgeable/blockable shatter projectiles, it's another if on top of that it makes us sitting ducks.

[RabbitUp.8294]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Amen to this I don't know if anyone carefully watched the video but shatters are casted rather then being instant, with the long windup cast and the LARGE tells it is easily dodge-able/interruptible. 

 

Care to elaborate "on top of everything else mesmer has" you mean using blink, signet of midnight, daze mantra, mirror image, mass invis....so basically everything core and every other mesmer spec builds...got it thanks. I had no clue we had so much options...

Yes, you use your core profession, shocking. Elite specs are not supposed to invalidate the baseline traits and skills. 

Also, we haven't seen the virtuoso traits yet, no point in trying to judge the survivability of the spec without those.

[Pomdepin.7068]

Just an idea to throw here, but it could be nice to be able to choose the number of blades to fire instead of automatically firing all of them.

 

Keep the key down to increase the number of blades involved, increasing damage and cast time. That would also make the moment we fire less predictable, and be able to mix various F skills in one go.

[Salt Mode.3780]

14 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Yes, you use your core profession, shocking. Elite specs are not supposed to invalidate the baseline traits and skills. 

Also, we haven't seen the virtuoso traits yet, no point in trying to judge the survivability of the spec without those.

No one said to invalidate baseline traits or skills its the fact that almost all mesmer specs use core skills rather then its spec skills aside from mirage using jaunt and illusionary ambush. Its the build diversity that mesmer lacks for the longest time including traits because again dueling being such a core traitline for almost all builds due to deceptive evasion. 

Removing clones did not solve this profession issue.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Sodeni.6041]

10 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

 

Chrono has no distortion, mobility, or condi cleanse except for its heal skill. 

Trait lines make a difference.

They literally got shield with a block skill which works 2 times. 4 times if you use the heal sigil. They also get aegis pulses with an utility skill, a stunbreak, condi removal on heal, heavy cc elite, rewind time to a better health state... virtuoso has nothing of those.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Sodeni.6041

[Gryxis.6950]

1 minute ago, Sodeni.6041 said:

They literally god a block skill which works 2 times. 4 times if you use the heal sigil. They also get aegis pulses with an utility skill, a stunbreak, condi removal on heal, heavy cc elite, ... virtuoso has nothing of those.

Unless you're playing pve, the sigil is not going to fully reset your block. Also they need a specific weapon for that, you can pick up off hand sword or scepter if you want blocks on virtuoso. And the block on f4 is only a 30s cd for a 3s duration from what we've seen so it blocks as much as the chrono's shield (and chrono does not have a utility spell granting 3s of distorsion, unlike the virtuoso)

[RabbitUp.8294]

Just now, Sodeni.6041 said:

They literally god a block skill which works 2 times. 4 times if you use the heal sigil. They also get aegis pulses with an utility skill, a stunbreak, condi removal on heal, heavy cc elite, ... virtuoso has nothing of those.

Echo of memory is 1.5s block (x2) on a 30s cd. Virtuoso F4 is 3s block on a 30s cd regardless of weapon. It has condi removal and aegis on heal on a 20s cd. It has the distortion channeling skill.

 

All elite specs get a stun break. Either the tooltips aren't final, or the stunbreak is on the aoe push, which I believe we didn't see the tooltip for. Or there's a trait like "All psionic skills break stuns".

[RabbitUp.8294]

11 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

No one said to invalidate baseline traits or skills its the fact that almost all mesmer specs use core skills rather then its spec skills aside from mirage using jaunt and illusionary ambush. Its the build diversity that mesmer lacks for the longest time including traits because again dueling being such a core traitline for almost all builds due to deceptive evasion. 

Removing clones did not solve this profession issue.

You really think virtuso will not have a single trait that generates blade pips? If they are easier to generate than clones (considering the max is 5 instead of 3 now), you can drop Deceptive Evasion.

 

Which elite specs was using multiple spec utilities outside of pve? Only FB used mostly mantras, and that's because they're so powercrept compared to their baseline skills. Chrono used multiple wells during HoT.

[Salt Mode.3780]

32 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

You really think virtuso will not have a single trait that generates blade pips? If they are easier to generate than clones (considering the max is 5 instead of 3 now), you can drop Deceptive Evasion.

 

Which elite specs was using multiple spec utilities outside of pve? Only FB used mostly mantras, and that's because they're so powercrept compared to their baseline skills. Chrono used multiple wells during HoT.

You are joking right? 

Reapers, Scourge, DH, Tempest, Weaver, Druid, Boonbeast, Spellbreakers...I mean what? Those are the immediate ones I can name right off the bat.

Even till this day they still use their spec utilities even after the nerfs and changes.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[glenndevis.8327]

Tbh I'm a bit disappointed we're not getting an offhand dagger. Would have been cool to finally have another offensive phantasm.  

At least i'm happy we got a mainhand and not only an offhand like with Chrono.

 

Either way I don't know why they decided to give Virtuoso only a mainhand dagger while Spellbreaker got dual daggers in PoF.

Mesmer's never got a full set of new weapon skills coz they've always gotten a one handed weapon.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

3 minutes ago, glenndevis.8327 said:

Tbh I'm a bit disappointed we're not getting an offhand dagger. Would have been cool to finally have another offensive phantasm.  

At least i'm happy we got a mainhand and not only an offhand like with Chrono.

 

Either way I don't know why they decided to give Virtuoso only a mainhand dagger while Spellbreaker got dual daggers in PoF.

Mesmer's never got a full set of new weapon skills coz they've always gotten a one handed weapon.

I'm pretty sure the spec will also have duel daggers. Not sure why it wasn't shown...but daggers are always duel on every class.

Edited July 28, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[phokus.8934]

1 minute ago, glenndevis.8327 said:

Tbh I'm a bit disappointed we're not getting an offhand dagger. Would have been cool to finally have another offensive phantasm.  

At least i'm happy we got a mainhand and not only an offhand like with Chrono.

 

Either way I don't know why they decided to give Virtuoso only a mainhand dagger while Spellbreaker got dual daggers in PoF.

Mesmer's never got a full set of new weapon skills coz they've always gotten a one handed weapon.

Because Warrior's can dual wield any one-handed weapon that's not strictly an off-hand.  But it would've been nice to have dual daggers but overall I can't complain.

[phokus.8934]

2 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

I'm pretty sure the spec will also have duel daggers. Not sure why it wasn't shown...but daggers are always duel. 

That's not true.  Ranger can only use dagger as an off-hand.  As it stands now, Mesmer will only get main-hand dagger.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

3 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

That's not true.  Ranger can only use dagger as an off-hand.  As it stands now, Mesmer will only get main-hand dagger.

 

Seems odd to give a class about blades, access only to a single blade lol...

 

but I see what you mean. Ranger shipped with only off-hand dagger which I guess makes it an outlier since all other classes can duel with it...and POF shipped it it's complimentary dagger to make it whole.

 

Again i have my doubts. I think there's an offhand dagger and they just didn't show it...but i could totally be wrong and it could be just like the ranger situation. 

[RabbitUp.8294]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

You are joking right? 

Reapers, Scourge, DH, Tempest, Weaver, Druid, Boonbeast, Spellbreakers...I mean what? Those are the immediate ones I can name right off the bat.

Even till this day they still use their spec utilities even after the nerfs and changes.

Using a utility is different than using full spec utilities. All of them use some of their core utilities as well.

[phokus.8934]

1 minute ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

Seems odd to give a class about blades, access only to a single blade lol...

 

but I see what you mean. Ranger shipped with only off-hand dagger which I guess makes it an outlier since all other classes can duel with it...and POF shipped it it's complimentary dagger to make it whole.

 

Again i have my doubts. I think there's an offhand dagger and they just didn't show it...but i could totally be wrong and it could be just like the ranger situation. 

Why wouldn't they show it?  Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  Also it's in the same realm that thieves have a main-hand sword but not an off-hand sword.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

2 hours ago, Pomdepin.7068 said:

I globally liked the theme of the elite, but also have some major gripes :

 

- Only MH dagger is lackluster, please give us an OH as well.

- F1-4 skills are copy-paste of clone shatters. If the spec is power dmg, the confusion shatter must go away for a new original power related one. Doesn't have to be pure damage, be creative !

- dagger skills seem kind of boring with bad animations (please make an original GS-like animation for it!). Maybe give it a mobility skill ?

- also don't like the name Virtuoso but I could live with it.

 

As for tuning and skill effects, we'll have to see since it can heavily rely on traits.

My main concern is the blade mechanic which is really too similar to shatters in its effects. Give it some CC, useful conditions, special effects or something with more flavour !

 

 

I mean mirage's are literally copy paste of core shatters. And chrono's are basically core but doubling up the effect. Pbaoes on targets, easily countered by stealth.

 

Confusion on f2 isn't particularly new. But a 5 hit, line spell, you can actually position to hit mutiple targets, definitely is.

[glenndevis.8327]

Yeah I really doubt they'd not show the offhand skills if there was an offhand dagger for Mesmers.

 

And I guess I just hoped for more new things. I think all classes bar Ele (then again Ele gets many more skills.) got a 2handed weapon or a full set of new weapon skills in one of their elite specs so far.

 

Just a shame they didn't do dual daggers. Doesn't make it better that the bladesongs seem quite similar to the already existing shatters effect wise.

[Obtena.7952]

"Hey, let's judge the espec without knowing it's traits!!"

 

Great work. 🤔

Edited July 28, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Someone mentioned on this thread or the other one that the new shatters might root the player, except F4. 

And it appears so, otherwise the animation would be bad if you move. 

 

So the new shatters: huge windup, projectiles, perhaps easily dodged (remains to be seen), and root the player, no IP. 

 

Seems a lot to fix before release.

[Tungsten Monarch.6058]

Blade Storm, Chaos Blade, Blade Whisperer, there were so many better options than Virtuoso, it's a stupid name, that makes no sense for the class.

[Artyport.2084]

The two ground targeted aoes should be the f1 and f2 abilities

 

change the psionic abilities to performances  

Song of generation- while singling you gain distortion and generate blades

 

dance of retribution- dance and push enemies away. 
 

also let’s get rid of phantasms tooo!