Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons Discussion Thread: Gameplay and Elite Specializations [MERGED]

[Unknown.9837]

Honestly tried  the bladesworn in hope to main the warrior but was dissapointed immeseurbly by the lack of damage / movement non of this games target is stationary anymore so the whole standing still thing on warrior is ridiculous its like a melee of the deadeye but not nearly as many movement options i really hope they rework or change their whole idea on the bladesworn 😞 and also pistol offhand ? makes no sense honestly when it comes to damage nothing can compare to axe offhand atm so unless you can match the damage it would be way better to make pistol main hand witch would give warrior so much more coverage than just a melee

Edited September 22, 2021 by Unknown.9837

[Foxy.5319]

50 minutes ago, Unknown.9837 said:

Honestly tried  the bladesworn in hope to main the warrior but was dissapointed immeseurbly by the lack of damage / movement non of this games target is stationary anymore so the whole standing still thing on warrior is ridiculous its like a melee of the deadeye but not nearly as many movement options i really hope they rework or change their whole idea on the bladesworn 😞 and also pistol offhand ? makes no sense honestly when it comes to damage nothing can compare to axe offhand atm so unless you can match the damage it would be way better to make pistol main hand witch would give warrior so much more coverage than just a melee

the warrior is currently at 52k top dps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0WS-1TvRTw&ab_channel=IchigoHatake

Edited September 22, 2021 by Foxy.5319

[Silvoshipnos.2089]

The bladesworn's Dragon Trigger feels like garbage on WvW. With dragon slash force you spend 5 seconds channeling to do less damage than what you would have done with just autoattacks, dragon slash boost could be useful for a quick f2-2 dash and same for dragon slash reach, but even then, if you press your keys too fast it interrupts going into dragon trigger, and it's never worth channeling. It feels that adrenaline generation and burst-centric builds are unusable in wvw.

 

I think the flow to charge conversion should be sped up and the transition into dragon trigger should be instantaneous so that it cannot be interrupted by trying to use its own skills.

 

Also, it sucks that walking interrupts draggon trigger. It should either lock you, like the deadeye's kneeling, or preferably allow you to move at 50% speed or something, it's not good enough to justify not being able to move.

[Foxy.5319]

11 minutes ago, Silvoshipnos.2089 said:

Der Dragon Trigger des Bladeworn fühlt sich im WvW wie Müll an. Mit Dragon Slash Force verbringst du 5 Sekunden mit Channeling, um weniger Schaden zu verursachen, als du es nur mit automatischen Angriffen gemacht hättest Ihre Schlüssel zu schnell, es unterbricht den Drachenauslöser, und es lohnt sich nie, zu kanalisieren. Es fühlt sich an, dass Adrenalin-Generierung und Burst-zentrierte Builds in wvw unbrauchbar sind.

 

Ich denke, die Umwandlung von Fluss zu Ladung sollte beschleunigt werden und der Übergang zum Drachenauslöser sollte sofort erfolgen, kitten er nicht unterbrochen werden kann, indem versucht wird, seine eigenen Fähigkeiten einzusetzen.

 

Außerdem ist es schade, dass das Gehen den Draggon-Auslöser unterbricht. Es sollte Sie entweder blockieren, wie das Knien des toten Auges, oder es Ihnen vorzugsweise ermöglichen, sich mit 50% Geschwindigkeit oder so zu bewegen, es ist nicht gut genug, um zu rechtfertigen, dass Sie sich nicht bewegen können.

for this you have skill 4 and 5 so that you are not easily attacked when charging skill 4 can be used twice and gives you argis skill 5 can be used 3 times and is a shadow step and you can protect yourself while you are charging the skill .

[Silvoshipnos.2089]

6 minutes ago, Foxy.5319 said:

for this you have skill 4 and 5 so that you are not easily attacked when charging skill 4 can be used twice and gives you argis skill 5 can be used 3 times and is a shadow step and you can protect yourself while you are charging the skill

It doesn't matter that you can protect you while you channel, the problem isn't that, the problem is that even when you channel, it would have been better to autoattack.

It doesn't matter that you can teleport, the problem is that if while channeling, you press a movement key, it interrupts your channel, kicks you out of dragon trigger and puts it on cooldown. Additionally, the trade-off of not being able to move so that you can use those skills isn't worth it, letting you move would at least make so that it wouldn't interrupt the channel and so that it wouldn't absolutely suck kitten.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Silvoshipnos.2089

[Hattarx.5947]

Unfortunately, at the moment these six new specializations have turned out to be very disappointing imho. There is no reason, especially in the WWW, to prefer them to existing ones. I'm hoping for the next three but I don't think this is the right path this game has to take.

[Mik.3401]

If they want to sell the expansion to wider audiences than open world casuals then they really need to work on these specs. It is just beta so maybe they will rework them - again they must if they want to keep the game going

[Dante.1508]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:25 PM, Dante.1508 said:

I just want a viable and less clunky Revenant Ranged option.. Or bows to be overhauled, they are beyond weird to use on Revenant.

I Just want to quote my own post and say they have revamped Revenant bows, must have happened sometime last year, my apologies and i can see where the confused Reactions came from, Rev Bow is a lot better now.

 

I have to say I hated the new Warrior spec it feels awful.I even died in Tyria maps on it and i never die there.. feels like a clunky version of holomancer which is already clunky.

The Ele hammer is the same as all ele builds way too much mutitasking i cannot keep up with so i'll avoid it.. I avoid all ele specs too hard basket.

Revenant from the small amount i played on it seems fun and i liked it.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Dante.1508

[Geoff Fey.1035]

2 hours ago, Foxy.5319 said:

the warrior is currently at 52k top dps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0WS-1TvRTw&ab_channel=IchigoHatake

The dps on the training Golem is not realistic in a normal fight scenario (PvE or PvP) due to the self root vs enemies. Additionally, even slight cc can completely interrupt your flow by locking out access to Bursts which Warriors need to reliably access by default for the majority of Traits.

Please don't use the dps achieved on a stationary and non-attacking Golem as an indicator of Bladesworn DPS--it completely does not reflect accurately in combat situations.

[Vlaxitov.9753]

Even if your target is stationary does that bladesworn rotation in the video posted above look fun to play?
Now make it a realistic group oriented encounter and is bladesworn still top dps?
Maybe? It does feel pretty strong all around.
Will the vindicator easily survive group oriented encounters with mechanics that demand a lot of dodge?
What niche do the new elite specs bring to groups that would have you chose them over the existing specs?

I'd rather not see these new elite specs become forever meta in the game either. I feel like all of the previous elite specs are much more open ended that give me the freedom to theme my characters however I'd like. A lot about the EoD elite specs that we've seen so far to me seem much more restrictive thematically. For example if I'm an Asura, Charr, Norn, Sylvari or even Ascalonian bladesworn I'm playing as Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. Feelsbadman

Now I understand the whole lore thing and have zero problem with the story and world content being what it is, but "this is my story" at the end of the character creation cinematic doesn't seem to apply that much to these new elite specializations that visually attach this expansion's story to your character. That said, I still wouldn't mind seeing them clearly filling niches in group play even if I don't care for how thematically restrictive they seem to me.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Vlaxitov.9753

[ledernierrempart.6871]

i hope the 3 last spe will hold the candle. because so far, none of the revealed elite spec do anything better than the current available ones. most are very clunky to use and some are even quite bland (aka necro, elem).
with how skiffs, siege turtle and fishing are pushed as main feature of the new expac when they doesn't seem all that special, having the specialisations, which are the main selling points of any expac, be this weak, cunky or bland isn't going to help.

 

i think the main theme for this second specialisations beta is slowness. elem hammer is slow at doing anything. vindicator greatsword is also a bit slow to use. same goes for its dodge. and the new warrior F2 is slow to use with lack luster damage.

[Unknown.9837]

3 hours ago, Foxy.5319 said:

the warrior is currently at 52k top dps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0WS-1TvRTw&ab_channel=IchigoHatake

you don't get what im saying,firsly very few content is stationary like a golem with max debuffs and max buffs on yourself its simply unrealistic if you keep going for a long duration lets say 2 minutes the dps drop off is going to be instane dps whise its like the dh you can get a dps of over 40k in 5 seconds but can fall off very easily problem is there is so much mechanics in raids and movement in pvp/wvw that the warrior is just not going to be usuable at all because the damage in wvw/pvp is nonexistant aswell as no mobility or not nearly enough defence if you going to try and argue with me with the class in overall because there is a high dps rotation on a golem it isn't a valid argument against my statement that its useless and needs fixing so lets say in this cause yeah it got i dps and is somewhat useable against stationary targets in pve ,but what about pvp and wvw its simply useless ,go hit golem in pvp and youll see,and aswell mostlikely to up damage on offhand is not going to compete with axe they should;'ve just made it pistol main hand as powerbase to replace axe in mainhand but yeah still want to argue with me sure go ahead but take into perspective the dps in the link is highly unlikely that you will have all those buffs and debuffs in a duration long enough for you to hit your rotation to max dps its just unpractical design

[Rimour.9260]

Vindicator

The Vindicator replaces the dodge roll animation on Revenant with a dodge jump animation and reduces the endurance bar from 2 to 1. This is opposite of the Daredevil elite for Thief, who expanded their bar from 2 to 3. This is important to know as both Daredevil and Vindicator are endurance driven elite specs.

 

The new dodge on Vindicator takes a while to get use to as you can't double dodge anymore so you timing is even more important as you only have one opportunity. For example, before if your standing under a red ring for an enemy AoE attack, then you dodge roll but are still in the ring you could dodge roll again to get out. On a Vindicator you do not have the luxury of a second dodge.

 

The dodge jump distance also feels shorter when compared to the standard roll.  The Vindicator makes up for its lack of double dodge with AoE damage on its dodge when it ends and endurance gains with traits and Utilities. Overall you must make a endurance focus build for this elite spec which may make it feel a bit limiting. 

Bladesworn

The Gunblade on the Bladesworn plays like the greatsword for Warrior but with new animations. This means that there shouldn't be any difficulties playing this elite spec if you're already playing greatsword on warrior. The only issue found is  generating Flow for the Dragon Trigger ability. Currently in September 2021 Elite Spec Beta, generating Flow on Bladesworn is a bit slow without using Utility skills or grandmaster traits and and the pay off for the  Dragon Trigger abilities don't seem to be worth it. If you like the Dragon Trigger abilities or when a new way to play a greatsword warrior then Bladesworn is for you.

Catalyst

Similar to Harbinger, this elite spec plays like its core profession, which is good as you won't have to change your current build/gear much when switching to this new elite spec. Overall, the Catalyst has a focus on auras like Tempest mixed with the combo finishers from Weaver but doesn't excel in any of those areas. So if you want an aura  Elementalist you should still pick Tempest and same goes for combo finishers with Weaver, the Catalyst just gives you a bit of both. This elite spec can be described as Elementalist 2.0 .

[Caid.4932]

A bit of clarity of what we should be expecting would be nice too. Previous expansions have made the new elites flat out better than previous options and often came with a few nerfs to older stuff to guarantee that'd be the case.

If they're trying to make balanced specs that fit in with the current bunch i expect i'd react pretty differently knowing that.

[Zaoblad.9105]

I was realy hoping that the vindicator could be a new good power dps for raids... instead we got the new herald, even more useless. I wanna play something else instead of condi renegade. Herald was not even mentioned in the balance patch, at least make this Vindicator usable.

[Vlaxitov.9753]

2 hours ago, Zaoblad.9105 said:

I was realy hoping that the vindicator could be a new good power dps for raids... instead we got the new herald, even more useless. I wanna play something else instead of condi renegade. Herald was not even mentioned in the balance patch, at least make this Vindicator usable.

I've been playing around with vindicator today and though I haven't managed to find a power dps build that I like, I'm seeing a lot of potential in a possible group support/sustain build. It definitely doesn't have to be a new herald unless you're trying to play it that way.

[medivh.4725]

OK heres my take [If its not above 5 means I'm not playing]

Harbinger (necromancer)

2/10
Don’t like the whole Harbinger thing. Don’t understand why a necromancer need to shoot corrosive bullet. An evil ‘Warlock’ would have been cooler and more logical
 

Catalyst (elementalist)

3/10
Never understood elementalist. Just swopping their multiple elements makes me fatigue and lose focus on objective or the enemy. The earth shutter skill of the hammer (earth-skill 5 ) look wicked cracking ground sending spikes up. 

Vindicator (revenant)

5/10
The chest opening in your face skill is a joke. Auto attack is a let down. I however enjoyed the dive down move with F2 plus dodge key. Honestly, I’ll rather have ‘Valkyrie’ who fights really well. Main hand spear offhand (smaller round) shield. Fight combinations will be amazing since it is quite authentic and there are already many known moves. Something like Achilles did in movie Troy by Brad Pitt.
 

Bladesworn (warrior)

8/10
Not sure how small pistol becomes big firearm but looks fun and reminds me of Squall Leonhart from an older game. Think the gunblade concept is very much accepted. Now can we have some cool 'gunblades' skins in BLTC or TP already thank you very much?

 

Willbender (guardian)

7/10
Liked the new combos it is refreshing. Rapid attacking moves look enjoyable. How about the dual swords are chained together in some effects for more creative animation?

 

Virtuoso (mesmer)

10/10
Flying daggers Bleach comic style are excellent animations. Ultra-cool effects. 2 thumbs up.

[ShionKreth.1542]

Now that I've tried out Bladesworn, I really don't understand why they lose the warrior's burst attacks and their ability to swap weapons. It's like instead of gaining something new with the spec, they lose two things, two thematically warrior things, then gain back two things that are like what they lost.. but with clunky limitations. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by ShionKreth.1542

[Monarc.9726]

16 hours ago, ShionKreth.1542 said:

Now that I've tried out Bladesworn, I really don't understand why they lose the warrior's burst attacks and their ability to swap weapons. It's like instead of gaining something new with the spec, they lose two things, two thematically warrior things, then gain back two things that are like what they lost.. but with clunky limitations. 

I had the same impression after playing WB. The general staples of Guardian, like passive virtues and blocks were gone and replaced with what felt like less effective and clunky skills. I appreciate what Anet is trying to do; give the classes a new play style as an alternate to the core mechanics. Not an easy thing to do, difficult to have synergy with other traits and skills, pretty ambitious overall. I’m a little afraid that they bit off more than they can chew, but I’m also hopeful it will all come together before release.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Monarc.9726

[bossmitch.8037]

current 6 specializations is underwhelming. its not they are bad. its just the POF ones are over board and need to be toned down to be respectably competitive with EOD specs

[wetwillyhip.7254]

1 hour ago, bossmitch.8037 said:

current 6 specializations is underwhelming. its not they are bad. its just the POF ones are over board and need to be toned down to be respectably competitive with EOD specs

The problem with the new elite specs isn't just the damage numbers, it's the thematics and level of fleshed out development that goes into these that is lacking.  You can't tone down how well developed the previous elites are and you sure as hell need to be careful toning down the numbers on the previous elite specs without severely upsetting the player base.

The new ones are not playing as differently or uniquely as the previous elites. They need to allocate more development and resources to these as they don't feel that different. The mechanics, weapons, skills, utilities, traits,  should all tie into the theme and role of the new specialization and what it does. Great examples of this is Reaper and Holosmith. Most of these don't do that. They should be brought up to par with HoT and POF elites, not the opposite. I would say Virtuoso is probably the most fleshed out thematic and unique elite so far.

Edited September 24, 2021 by wetwillyhip.7254

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, bossmitch.8037 said:

current 6 specializations is underwhelming. its not they are bad. its just the POF ones are over board and need to be toned down to be respectably competitive with EOD specs

This is such a horrible idea, so many of the player base would move on to other games if this were to happen. Dumbing down the game, making existing elites less fun and viable is not the way.

[Hattarx.5947]

I know I am off topic and I apologize in advance but I think it would have been better for the game to introduce other professions from GW1 such as monk, ritualist, paragon or dervish. In this way we would have started from scratch but with ample development possibilities. I have the utmost respect for the work done by ArenaNet over the years but I would have liked to have seen them dare a little more. I don't think these new specializations can add anything more to the game right now.

[aintnoprophetjr.7068]

Hello Anet,
 

I'd Like to give my 2 cents on some of the new specializations and the betas surrounding them. I have played gw2 since beta in like 2012, so I love to help this game out anyway I can! These are my takes on the specializations and how they fit into the games current state. 

Harbinger: I found this class's spec very interesting. It was clear to me one of the only main ways to use it in current is condi build. It is interesting that you want to make it cookie cutter like this. However, I was only able to play with it for a time. I think it is a unique thing to remove health for dps, and makes the necros health pool have its own drawbacks. All in all this one was fun to play. My issues with this one and some of the other ones is that instead of saying dual pistols you only allow it for offhand. (A bigger overall issue) I don't see the reason to not allow dual pistols on the necro for this spec. But I guess this could be said about most all of the specs that add a one handed. I feel as if there are enough weapons in the game to allow for a numerous amount of future specs based off of them without artificially holding back on dual wielding. I digress, the necro seemed interesting but very cookie cutter like you can only play it one way. 
TLDR: Necros are a good class, you guys like nerfing, but oh well. This spec has specific builds, but is really unique and I look forward to seeing it. 

Willbender: I will be honest here, It seems as if you the Devs and GMs only like to play about 2 classes. One of these is Guardian. The guardian is incredibly OP in the games position and has been forever. Heal brand or Burn Brand, not to mention that the Dragon Slayer has some of the highest burst Damage in the game. It seems as if this is the class that you want to play and kitten the rest. With this will bender you allowed dual wielding, but I understand that it also is based off of that guard can use sword to start with in core. The willbender seems like its built special for something along the lines of a WvW roamer or PvP. Since Guard is already the master of all in PvE, the willbender seeks to claim that title in PvP? It is certain that the brokeness of the guard in the game has created a level of toxicity in guardians. Don't believe me? Try public lfg in T4 fractals for a bit. So the take my take on the will bender is soured by the fact it is a guardian, however it seems like it was also following the designs for a specific purpose. 
TLDR: I hate guard, you guys love the class its op. Willbender boring, but obviously for PvP gamemodes

Virtuoso: I have always disliked playing as a mes, mainly the illusion are useless imo as they disappear aft killing the one summoned on it. However, with the Virtuoso and the Knives this problem seems to be remedied as the knives persist after. This is awesome! I am really excited for the Virtuoso! You guys outdid yourselves on the skills animation and style as well as usefulness! The one complaint I have is that there is no clear understanding at least in my opinion, on the differences between knives summoned and illusions summoned. The virtuoso is already running some amazing dps and is fun to play. I wish that there was either a distinction between illusion/phantasms and the knives. I honestly wouldn't mind upgrading the knives a bit and removing the illusions/phantasms from the class when specd to Virtuoso. 
TLDR: I don't like the mes's Illusions and Phantasms cuz they do not persist. The knives do and the animations are awesome! Best one out of the 3 imo. 

Thanks for the Game I look forward to playing it more as it continues to change. I hope that you see this and at least look at the TLDRs. I'll continue after this with the ele war and rev. Regardless of it you asked for it XD sorry. 

A faithful random player!

[aintnoprophetjr.7068]

Dear Anet,

I just finished the review on the last 3 guys. This series of review is being done while the rev ele and war are out! So hopefully, maybe, this one will be a bit more technical as I have the spec stuff infront of me!

Catalyst: As of current the Elementalist is my favorite class in the game. It is what I main! I use both the tempest and the weaver for different reasons. When it comes to the catalyst, I am not a fan. The hammer is slow and clunky. It is waay to slow for an ele. Sure the staff is slow, but it does some amazing cleave damage and aoes! Or with the weaver the sword and dagger is an amazing combo that just is super fast and feels like there's a higher skill cap. One that I have yet to get! Ele is kept fresh with these 4 different attunements. The ele never needed a second weapon it basically has 4 with the attunes. The weaver makes it even more complex and I love that about it! In WvW it has some good condi cleanse (Eventhough you nerfed it, because it was becoming better than the scapper? Tempest shout 10 people skill). In pve heal tempest is one of the highest hps output in the game at least it feels that way, however it doesn't have the boons associated with it, so Guardian HB wins cuz utility over hps. And the weaver feels like one of the best pdps things in the game, of course don't worry guard is still better with cdps burn brand and pdps dragonhunter. So, my question, Why make the ele slow and clunky? It is totally against what it has been. When looking at the catalyst trait line, why? Elemental Empowerment is dumb. It makes the entire idea of dps/support useless. Like what am I supposed to do with the catalyst? run it in pvp or wvw roamer? It is a trait line that is equivalent to celestial gear. And then you make it dependent on auras? But the hammer skills don't give auras. Oh wait, the 4 skill on the earth attune... one skill...? The 4 skill on the lightning attune is useless, it would throw you away from the entire group in anything, with a knockdown as your compensation. The Jade sphere is unknown as to its uses. I see maybe the boons for it. however you need to spec spectacular sphere over empowering auras. The lightning attune for the sphere is the best one, with the quickness and fury. 
This brings to another question about the catalyst. What is the role here for? Support, pdps, cdps? pdps is like 4kdps and cdps is 5k. Support would need some healing to back it up and that seemingly doesn't exist. The boons even specd with boon uptime and such is way less then the heal brand ever gets. I would really like to see a dethrone of the heal brand. And maybe you can do that here with this spec, however its not doing it atm. Why is it that if specd spectacular sphere that the water attunement gives you vigor? Why not regen? Or why resolution? Wouldn't that make more sense on something like earth? I don't know exactly what it is that catalyst is supposed to accomplish, but from what I've seen its a master of none, without the jack of all trades. 
TLDR: If you are a dev and reading TLDR, this one is important so please don't skim over the top part. Else wise, the hammer skills are slow and clunky and not built for this thing at all. The catalyst doesn't seem to have anything that its good at. 

 

Bladesworn: I think warrior is boring normally, like banner slave is the only thing its good for apparently. However I don't play it alot. Though I'm not sure how the mechanics all work well with it. This one is really cool and fun! The fact that you actually gave it a gunblade is so freaking cool! And the sheathe mechanic thing, thats bad kitten. The design is cool. But for me its confusing on what the Dragon trigger does when it can be ran in dungeons, its build ups are slow and the cooldown is long. So I dunno. But its not seemingly helpful. However for design its super cool. Seems pretty straightforward as what role its going for, and there seems to be some wiggle room. However again Im not an expert on Warrior lol, but the desgin is cool!
TLDR: I dont know much about warr, but the design of this spec is cool. People seem to like it!

Vindicator: The greatsword is my favorite weapon in the game! So anyone its added to is exciting to me! The legendary Alliance stance to me seems so freaking cool and the complexity and the uniqueness of changing the skills two over and over is awesome! I really like the design and the build seems interesting! It seems like this guy can either be heals or dps. Possibly, need to look closer, I love this thing and the skills are awesome and the gs is fun to use. My biggest issue that I have is that the dodge imo should not to be messed with. The dodges in the game are be deals and I know the daredevil does change it, but it adds more dodges and has options for what dodge to do. The mirage also does it, but I hate the mirage also for the dodges being changed. At least give the option to choose what kinda diff for dodges there are to be. In dungeons and fractals and raids and strikes and wvw and pvp, dodging is crucial. So you've nerfed the class right out the gate with giving them one dodge that is not the best thing. Elsewise this class would be something I would absoultely play. However, seeing the dodge mechanic getting pooped on, I doubt ill use this thing. Especially since rev is big in alac already this doesn't seem like a valuable alternative to alac utility dps. 
TLDR: I would really love to play this class and its spec, however the single dodge kills it for me. Cool design though!

That would be my thoughts on this go arounds specs. Please Anet really look at and work with the ele it has some serious issues. I'm partial yes, but It is very important. I hope this finds anyone reading it half way beneficial. 

A faithful random player!