Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons Discussion Thread: Gameplay and Elite Specializations [MERGED]

[HotDelirium.7984]

-I do like the change from clones to dagger, which fits the theme of the elite plus its like you are using your mesmer magic to convert them into a dagger rather than a clone.

-The rationale behind this build, I assume is to be more of a striker build since we do have many condi mesmer builds.

-It does seem to have a lot of focus on attacking so this might be one of those glass canon elite specs so I do worry a little about survivability.

-If many of their attacks are considered projectiles I do hope maybe they have a trait that ignores this, lets call it "Displacement" so that it ignores projectile blocks and reflects. If not all of the projectiles maybe just some...for balance reasons.

-The bloom effects muddied up the crisp graphics so if we turn that off I think it will look a bit more concise.

-A virtuoso is a skilled artisan usually in music, fine art and music and this is giving me more "blade dancer" realness. Maybe the traits will better flesh that part out?

-I do wish it was dual wield daggers and not just one. The offhand weapons don't exactly synergize with a virtuoso.... 4 and 5 maybe could have been movement skills?

-Overall I'm excited to play it!

Edited July 30, 2021 by HotDelirium.7984

[Jokubas.4265]

On 7/27/2021 at 1:23 PM, Legion.4198 said:

I think the the Necro is not the bullet one but the flask one. It has "evil eye" sort-off feel like just screams necromancer with a flask of souls to me.

I think there's a good chance of that myself. The Necromancer artwork posted here has some sort of round flasks at their hip and a big orb thing on the front of their hat. The Pistol may be the spec's new weapon, but there could be other Gun specs and that doesn't mean the icon has to be the weapon. I'm mostly stumped about the rest of the icons though. To be fair though, I feel that way about most of the existing icons. The original Profession icons were really good, but I can never keep most of the Elite Specializations straight. They aren't so clearly archetypal and end up being a little too abstract for me.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Jokubas.4265

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

1. mesmer
2. ranger? - sort of looks like a helmet with ears, could be a pet with armour? maybe its focused more aorund the pets
3. thief or guardian? - as some1 said  before it looks like the thiefs iniative pips, but also the only core spec with 3 f-skills is guardian right? this one confuses me more than the others
4. ele? - i get the feeling of an atunement going steroids
5. thief or rev? - i dont rly have anything for this other than the face makes me think of of these two professions.
6. rev or thief? same as 5 really. The symbol has something thiefy about it, maybe im thinking of a deadeye symbol?
7. ranger or warrior? 
8. guardian or engi? 
9. necro

[Urphen.2857]

im disappointed about Mesmer e-spec. the idea is cool and all but what we get is the same thing again like before. now with core we have 4 specs with the same gameplay, summon clones/blades and use them to do more or less the same f1-3 skills. 2 of the utility skills looks the same, the blade rain an the skill with immobilization what in the end ist the blade rain animation only shorter. i hoped for more since you showed us on necro and guard you can make something unique that rly change the gameplay but as it stands now im gonna change my main since i can see that other classes will get again something unique and refreshing and we will stay with the same boring playstile only with other animation. sure i will wait till the beta to test all, but i cant see how a few traits will impact the mechanics that much that it will change something.

[Calevorn.5671]

Virtuoso seems an odd name for the elite spec given what we've seen. It implies a heavy musical connection which is nowhere to be seen.

 

As for the gameplay, I struggle to see a distinct difference. It mostly seems like an aesthetic change where you still do the same things.

[Kencu.5846]

I don't hate the new elite spec, but it indeed seems kinda... Unoriginal? I mean getting rid of clones was pretty much expected and I agree that it was necessary. But a cloneless mesmer lacks a lot of defense and the virtuoso seems incredibly squishy. Well, let's wait for the traitline. I like the AoE-s and all that, it's a much needed addition but I expected more. More complexity. With Chrono you can play around F4, it can be used offensively and defensively and if you're not careful, it can be suicide. The virtuoso seems like AoE spam. F1-F4 is similar to core, the dagger skills are very straightforward and kinda boring. This might not be a bad thing after all, remember how even though sword 3 was a great idea, it was a bit buggy and a pain to use sometimes.

 

I like that the virtuoso seems less prone to bugs the clone mechanism could provide, however. I was just hoping for a bit "more". 

 

Traits might save the day, unless they are boring "gives 150 precision"-like. Give us some cool trait options which add options, complexity and variety and it might be good. Can't wait to try it on the beta, anyone knows how to get access to that?

[artharon.9276]

1 hour ago, Calevorn.5671 said:

Virtuoso seems an odd name for the elite spec given what we've seen. It implies a heavy musical connection which is nowhere to be seen.

 

As for the gameplay, I struggle to see a distinct difference. It mostly seems like an aesthetic change where you still do the same things.

 

I agree. maybe they should redesign the sounds of skills. and I was expecting an elite skill to sing jigglypuff song to make everyone go sleep.

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

I wonder, if any clone generation is going to be replaced with Blades, how is Sword 3 going to work? Will Scepter autoattacks just keep generating Blades? What about the damage from Scepter and Staff that comes from their clones?

[rylien.3824]

11 minutes ago, Vennyhedgie.5369 said:

I wonder, if any clone generation is going to be replaced with Blades, how is Sword 3 going to work? Will Scepter autoattacks just keep generating Blades? What about the damage from Scepter and Staff that comes from their clones?

 

Nowadays, just a pink disco ball on a leg is enough for them to name it Mesmer. 💁‍♂️

Personally I like it because there is a magical effect, but I don't like it because it is too simple and visually poor ... (it does not look very worked) and it is really stoic during the launch of the spells... 

 

Finally, a Bard would have been more original and more int

eresting ...  (a horn with Canthian music for each spell), becoming a support class.)

 

 

 

And then the specialization of the necromancer is zero and is not very Canthian either.

What sadness ...

Edited July 29, 2021 by rylien.3824

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

I like this particular Mesmer E-Spec's overall theme although I gotta agree with others, it's feeling like another Power DPS-mer. Also the name is whack, doesn't feel like a "Virtuoso". 

 

If there were ways to use Blades as a form of protection/support rather than just running around bonking things with beeg damage, that would have been an interesting approach. That said, I can't fully judge it until I see the traits, there may be ways to play it differently to Power Mesmer. 

 

Also animation wise, could've at least made it so that the Mesmer's default attack looks like they're conducting music since they are a "Virtuoso" after all, and they are utilizing "Bladesongs" as well. 

[Woop S.7851]

From left to right..

Mesmer: 3 daggers (quite obvious)

Ranger: Kitsune fox mask

Thief: Dual Tachi blades + thief initiative diamond symbols

Elementalist: Susanoo headgear (dot in the middle with rays/fire spreading out)

Necromancer: Oni demon mask

Revenant: altered 1-Eye headband

 

*Unsure about the last 3 icons 🧐:
A thundering spear? bullet? staff? (Warrior? Guardian?)
Bionic/mechanical arms like the EOD character/concept art mid-page under 'Ancient Magic'? (Engineer?)
Last one is either a burning bomb with a black dot/pellet or an demonic eye? (Engineer?)

 

 

[rylien.3824]

 

•  

Posted 29 minutes ago (amended)

https://i-cdn.embed.ly/1/display?key=fd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e7893c13&url=https://i.redd.it/dmozxo84tsd71.jpg

 

(I copy / paste with some modifications on my part what a gas on the ENG forum said and it's not a stupid idea ! Thanks @Woop S.7851)

From left to right..

Mesmer  : 3 daggers (fairly obvious) [VIRTUOSE]

Ranger  :   Kitsune Fox Mask

Thief:  Tachi Dual Blades + Thief Initiative Diamond Symbols      

Elementalist: Susanoo headgear (point in the middle with spreading rays / fire)     

- So with a swordfish. (He would therefore be "hydromancer?" Or so the 4 elements are linked / mixed mainly with the water element!) To have moreover already fought "Susannoo" on FFXIV! I can tell he's tough haha.

Guardian :   demon Oni (with daggers? Or left sword (double-sword as a possibility))

After the ghost, I think of the Guardian, some kind of Exorcist? (purification of demons / The virtues replaced by talismans.).

https://64.media.tumblr.com/6dbe69298008ef67d147a949aef9f99e/tumblr_nlzhjcpxNk1t0qdk2o1_400.gifv

Revenant:   Modified 1-Eye Headband

- For me it will be a Samurai, but the "claws" make me think of this kind of weapon

(which makes it possible that it is simply daggers ... maybe Nikka in legend ?)  : 

https://boutiquerepliqua.fr/341-large_default/griffe-squelette.jpg

 

Necromancer:  Pistol bullet, with this weapon would throw "vials" / "diseases". 

(Not stupid, even if the gun isn't what I would have put on him, but maybe he's like the elementalist and his weapons have different skills than the spec, who knows!). It should definitely be poison / infusion-centric (like an apothecary).

Warrior : (Monk? Focus (hitting the cac) / Staff?).

Engineer : With the innovation of "Dragon Jade", creation of golems / automatons (all with a strong "Steampunk" style), symbol of the "grenade" engineer with a dragon "eye" in the center.

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by rylien.3824

[Raven.8156]

I think ritualist on the rev is a lot more likely now. I read the description of the GW1 ritualist on the wiki, it’s seems like a good fit. Not to mention, the rev symbol on the EOD website has a close resemblance to the GW1 ritualist symbol.

 

 I’d say ritualist is a perfect fit as a spec.  Fingers crossed.

[Raven.8156]

On 7/28/2021 at 12:28 AM, Tyson.5160 said:

Yeah, and looks like maybe dual daggers 🗡 🗡, which I’m a little disappointed about, but we’ll see.

I doubt a spec would get two weapons. Dual dagger on the new Mesmer spec would have made sense too.. 

 

 

 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

13 hours ago, rylien.3824 said:

Nowadays, just a pink disco ball on a leg is enough for them to name it Mesmer. 💁‍♂️

 

😂👍

 

13 hours ago, rylien.3824 said:

Personally I like it because there is a magical effect, but I don't like it because it is too simple and visually poor ... (it does not look very worked) and it is really stoic during the launch of the spells...

 

It didn't excite me at all, either. It looked pretty boring to me, to be honest.

 

13 hours ago, rylien.3824 said:

Finally, a Bard would have been more original and more interesting ...  (a horn with Canthian music for each spell), becoming a support class.)

 

I was hoping for something like a Bard myself, but it would have had to be a distinct Canthanese version.

 

13 hours ago, rylien.3824 said:

And then the specialization of the necromancer is zero and is not very Canthian either.

What sadness ...

 

From seeing the Virtuoso and all the icons for the other Elite Specs, I am getting the vibe of none of them having any traditional Canthanese theme - they all look rather steam-punky or high-tech.

 

I would have loved some traditional old school Ritualist for the Necromancer, Shaolin Monk for the Guardian (with Armor penalties to adjust towards medium or light class), or anything remotely Canthanese. Now I'm worried it will all be completely "anti-traditional" for Cantha. 😢 I was hyped for the Aetherblade announcement, but if that's the overall design direction for the whole expansion (except for the maps, that is), then I will be a very unhappy camper. It will feel like, "We had to invent something modern. Modern is always better!" (which is inaccurate, but hey...)

[Compass.9621]

While i am excited with the EOD, i agree with the comments of others on the clone-less mesmer with daggers as "Virtuoso". It would have been cool if the Virtuoso wields a short bow (Harp/Violin-skin) that damages opponents while inspire teammates with music. I guess it is too late now since the skill animation with daggers is already done. Waste of good name, though.

[Xaylin.1860]

21 hours ago, Urphen.2857 said:

im disappointed about Mesmer e-spec. the idea is cool and all but what we get is the same thing again like before. now with core we have 4 specs with the same gameplay, summon clones/blades and use them to do more or less the same f1-3 skills.

While I share some of your sentiment especially regarding the displayed Utilities, I think this is an issue of managing ones expectations.

 

Rangers won't ever be completely petless. Necromancer will never have a spec without some form of lifefore because it is his/her resource that is baked into skills and traits. Mesmer is probably worst when it comes to flexibilit due its class design. We not only have Illusions (which btw. means that at least some traits on Virtuoso will be way less powerful, e.g. Sharper Images, unless getting the Soulbeast treatment). We also have 4 F-Skills that have a distinctive purpose which is further enforced by traits. Additionally in most cases either F1 or F2 are almost useless for its primary effect for many builds just like some Attunements are less frequently used on specific builds on Elementalist (and Earth being on life support). It's a nightmare to design alternative mechanics for sth. like Shatters. Which is probably why Chrono and Virtuoso Shatters are so same same when it comes to the effects even though the application of the effect varies. And Mirage likely got no exclusive Shatters due to this as well (not even "yolo, Shatters always spawn a Mirror like Overcharges are always Stunbreakers). Scourge is a good example for the troubles ANet runs into when it comes to Mesmer but much lighter. Now, there also is the opposite spectrum like Thief or Warrior that have a rather simple class mechanic which can cause issues as well. But creatively, there are way more options.

 

So: Cloneless Mesmer actually is a big deal. Sure, ANet could have made a better effort. Chronos Shatters could have been even more Well like and innately supportive. Mirage should most certainly have had Ambushes and IH be connected to Shatters. But reworking those is a huge effort and I'd rather not wait for it to happen. As sad as it sounds, Bladesongs are actually the best we got for Mesmers so far.

[rylien.3824]

3 hours ago, Eric.7813 said:

I think ritualist on the rev is a lot more likely now. I read the description of the GW1 ritualist on the wiki, it’s seems like a good fit. Not to mention, the rev symbol on the EOD website has a close resemblance to the GW1 ritualist symbol.

 

 I’d say ritualist is a perfect fit as a spec.  Fingers crossed.

 

Nothing prevents them from doing a specialization related to the legend of Razah who became a Samurai for the ghost. (weapon: swordfish). Which very often corresponds to its history, wandering alone to find a goal, and where it has often been said that the sword represents the soul of the person and that it can lock the soul of his enemies inside, or very supernatural things like that. What binds the capacities of ritualist mixed well with a new genre "Samurai". So that would be super cool if that was it !
 

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Compass.9621 said:

It would have been cool if the Virtuoso wields a short bow (Harp/Violin-skin) that damages opponents while inspire teammates with music. [...] Waste of good name, though.

 

Indeed.

 

4 hours ago, Eric.7813 said:

I think ritualist on the rev is a lot more likely now. I read the description of the GW1 ritualist on the wiki, it’s seems like a good fit. Not to mention, the rev symbol on the EOD website has a close resemblance to the GW1 ritualist symbol.

 

 I’d say ritualist is a perfect fit as a spec.  Fingers crossed.

 

While I agree on the symbol (it's my guess, too), they would have to do something about the heavy armor, because Ritualist was a light-armor profession - like a cooler Necromancer, communing with the spirits of the dead. Of course, the latter fits the discription of the Revenant pretty well, but let's face it: the Rev is martial spec, not a spell-caster.

[Urphen.2857]

5 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

While I share some of your sentiment especially regarding the displayed Utilities, I think this is an issue of managing ones expectations.

 

Rangers won't ever be completely petless. Necromancer will never have a spec without some form of lifefore because it is his/her resource that is baked into skills and traits. Mesmer is probably worst when it comes to flexibilit due its class design. We not only have Illusions (which btw. means that at least some traits on Virtuoso will be way less powerful, e.g. Sharper Images, unless getting the Soulbeast treatment). We also have 4 F-Skills that have a distinctive purpose which is further enforced by traits. Additionally in most cases either F1 or F2 are almost useless for its primary effect for many builds just like some Attunements are less frequently used on specific builds on Elementalist (and Earth being on life support). It's a nightmare to design alternative mechanics for sth. like Shatters. Which is probably why Chrono and Virtuoso Shatters are so same same when it comes to the effects even though the application of the effect varies. And Mirage likely got no exclusive Shatters due to this as well (not even "yolo, Shatters always spawn a Mirror like Overcharges are always Stunbreakers). Scourge is a good example for the troubles ANet runs into when it comes to Mesmer but much lighter. Now, there also is the opposite spectrum like Thief or Warrior that have a rather simple class mechanic which can cause issues as well. But creatively, there are way more options.

 

So: Cloneless Mesmer actually is a big deal. Sure, ANet could have made a better effort. Chronos Shatters could have been even more Well like and innately supportive. Mirage should most certainly have had Ambushes and IH be connected to Shatters. But reworking those is a huge effort and I'd rather not wait for it to happen. As sad as it sounds, Bladesongs are actually the best we got for Mesmers so far.

Sure necro will always use lifeforce and ranger always pets and mesmer always clones.

The thing is even necro is always using lifeforce the reaper shroud doesn't do exactly the same thing like core and even more scourge uses his lifeforce for shades and not for a shroud but we as mesmer are doing besides of F4 the exactly same thing:

F1 - dps

F2 - confusion

F3 - daze

 

It's exactly your last part what I'm missing on mesmer, why wasn't the chrono shatters more like renegade F4 ? Using the clones for in example F1 - quick F2 - alac  F3 - slow

Why we have again confusion on the virtuoso F2? It's ok for me when our resources is to generate clones, maybe I explained it a bit weird before but my problem is that what we do with our resources is the exact same thing now with every spec (beside from the F4) and necro meanwhile is doing some unique and refreshing with his resources.

[Xaylin.1860]

1 hour ago, Urphen.2857 said:

Sure necro will always use lifeforce and ranger always pets and mesmer always clones.

The thing is even necro is always using lifeforce the reaper shroud doesn't do exactly the same thing like core and even more scourge uses his lifeforce for shades and not for a shroud but we as mesmer are doing besides of F4 the exactly same thing:

F1 - dps

F2 - confusion

F3 - daze

 

It's exactly your last part what I'm missing on mesmer, why wasn't the chrono shatters more like renegade F4 ? Using the clones for in example F1 - quick F2 - alac  F3 - slow

Why we have again confusion on the virtuoso F2? It's ok for me when our resources is to generate clones, maybe I explained it a bit weird before but my problem is that what we do with our resources is the exact same thing now with every spec (beside from the F4) and necro meanwhile is doing some unique and refreshing with his resources.

Well, that's exactly where Mesmer is a bit more complicated than Necro. For one, we got more traits that affect F-skills than Necro has skills that affect F1 or Shroud-Skills. The boon with on-Shroud effects is that there are way more universal as soon as you switch the AA. But the Shroud-Skills is where the trouble started with Scourge (interactions with traits). Reaper on the other hand is actually very close to base Shroud. 1 = damage, 2 = mobility, 3 = Fear, 4 = pbae damage, 5 = CC. If you transferred this to Mesmer, F2 would still be condition based.

 

Now, Renegade was easy because it was just added ontop of Revenant. But yes, I do agree. Chrono should have been more like you describe. Or at least a power/support hybrid without Confusion on F2. Personally, I would have loved if Chrono-Shatters were like the Wells we've got but pbae like on Scrapper. It would have disadvantages on the distance, but play distinctively different than core Mesmer. Not sure what the Utilities would be. I also feel like not having CS as a Shatter would be a boon balance-wise. It could still be an Elite if it absolutely has to stay. But again: Yes, ANet should have been more ambitious. It sadly is just more difficult for Mesmers due to their initial design.

 

The F1 - F2 set up was a design fail in hinsight in general. It probably would have been better if we only had F1-F3 and F1 was modified to be a condition Shatter by a GM in maybe Illusions or something. But at the point when they designed Mesmer the traitsystem was a bit less complex and we didn't have elites.

 

 

[Goettel.4389]

As a filthy casual, what has kept me into GW2 are meta events: just join up and help out, without the need for formal partying. That's also my biggest wish for EoD: to get metas where they need to be. I don't care about gold per hour, I only care about playing a meta that is fun, rewarding and - most importantly - gets better with good team play, without having to talk about it.

For me, that's still VB/AB/TD(less so) and DS. The PoF metas are just big spam-fests for gold. This isn't the way.

 

But whatever, I never pre-order any game or expansions anymore, because of the burn, but I did this time because my gold-to-gem ratio endgame is good, so I have little to no reason to spent. I bought standard EoD for one reason: I love this MMO more than any other I've played (most of them), and I want it to carry on.

 

I'll go away now ; - )

[Ashantara.8731]

Wait a minute...

 

I just realized about the last icon (the spirit flame-shaped one) that it depicts a person sitting on top of a globe that looks like a dragon's/lizard's eye: https://imgur.com/lhqaIde

 

Soooo... what could be the meaning of that? Something Monk-like after all? <---wishful thinking ❤️

 

Edit: Just realized that it might be a visual illusion and it's just a flask or granade after all. 😥

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[ItsAdamParker.5192]

I think everything was really exciting, minus the legendaries.  The legendaries are just straight up lazy and are a glorified Black Lion Chest.  Incredibly disappointing that they aren't making these unique and pulling on Canthan lore for these.  There could be so much space for creativity here, and they've completely cut corners on that.  Not motivated to get a legendary at all in this expansion.

 

Another comment I had about the livestream -- why include the voice actors with absolutely no context of their characters?  Seemed totally bizarre and gave us no info.  

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i mean, sofar we kinda know nothing about the elite specs. i don't hype that necro gets pistol, not my fav weapon by any means, but then again, i also am not a huge fan of torch on scourge.

 

like, necro has good weapon choices yet anyways. the how-working of the new elite specs forges its character finally. will be interesting.