Cantha's technology

[Daniel Handler.4816]

Just now, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Why would they move from ocean they can freely swim around in to sea turned into solid rock?

 

What if they were in that part of the ocean when it turned to rock?

Perhaps Dragon Jade is Jade powered by a petrified/subjugated deep sea dragon.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

Just now, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

What if they were in that part of the ocean when it turned to rock?

Perhaps Dragon Jade is Jade powered by a petrified/subjugated deep sea dragon.

The Jade Sea was turned to Jade long before the Elder Dragons woke, and we know Bubbles woke in the Unending Ocean. So unless it woke up, time traveled into the past, and then got frozen, this doesn't add up.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

5 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The Jade Sea was turned to Jade long before the Elder Dragons woke, and we know Bubbles woke in the Unending Ocean. So unless it woke up, time traveled into the past, and then got frozen, this doesn't add up.

 

We know where Bubbles woke up, but do we know when?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

17 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

 

I mean can't they move? 

They can move while awake, but not halfway across the world while asleep and into solidified ground.

I'm not talking about the DSD currently being in Cantha is a retcon. I'm talking about the DSD having hibernated and woke up in Cantha being a retcon.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

They can move while awake, but not halfway across the world while asleep and into solidified ground.

I'm not talking about the DSD currently being in Cantha is a retcon. I'm talking about the DSD having hibernated and woke up in Cantha being a retcon.

 

So do we know that the deep sea dragon woke up in the unending ocean before the Jade wind? 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Ashantara.8731]

On 7/28/2021 at 3:14 AM, Bast.7253 said:

From my understanding reading the article [...]

 

What article?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

9 hours ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

So do we know that the deep sea dragon woke up in the unending ocean before the Jade wind? 

The Jade Wind was in 872 AE. Primordus, the first Elder Dragon to wake up, woke up in 1120 AE. The DSD is established via The Machien story instance and City of Hope instance to be second to have woken up in this cycle, third being Jormag, who woke up in 1165 AE.

 

This means the DSD woke up sometime between 1120 AE and 1165 AE, though its presence wasn't felt by those in Central Tyria until about 50 years prior to the game, when quaggans and krait were forced ashore from the Unending Ocean. This means that the DSD was not in Cantha in circa 1275 AE.

 

It most certainly did not wake up and move to the Jade Sea before the events of GW1, let alone 200 years before said events.

 

Unless its lore got retconned like that one leak that got 3 very simple predictions in the stream right so now redditors went and prcolaimed it all correct, which proclaims and all this tentacled horrors stuff was Lyssa's doing because Lyssa and the DSD are in cohoots and the DSD is actually a good guy but is slowly going insane now, and the two who love mortals so much decided it'd be a great idea to mass murder and exodus hundreds of thousands of mortals.

 

If that leak becomes half true, then lore has firmly hit the WoW stage of quality.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

10 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Unless its lore got retconned like that one leak that got 3 very simple predictions in the stream right so now redditors went and prcolaimed it all correct, which proclaims and all this tentacled horrors stuff was Lyssa's doing because Lyssa and the DSD are in cohoots and the DSD is actually a good guy but is slowly going insane now, and the two who love mortals so much decided it'd be a great idea to mass murder and exodus hundreds of thousands of mortals.

 

If that leak becomes half true, then lore has firmly hit the WoW stage of quality.

While that "leak" was beyond miserable, and almost certainly wrong, I could see Anet going the route of having Lyssa maybe not be the source of, but a factor in helping perpetuate, the isolationism and xenophobia of Cantha.

 

We know Lyssa was the one most connected to humanity. I've figured they could write her as seeing the decline of humanity(the sinking of Orr, the loss of Ascalon to the Charr, the decline of Kryta, Joko's takeover of Elona) spurring her to basically create a "human sanctuary" in Cantha so that, no matter what happened to humanity elsewhere, they could continue to exist in Cantha. Driving out the non-humans, and keeping it that way, facilitating that.

 

But yeah the whole "the DSD totally isn't evil, and is working with Lyssa, we swear guys!" stuff is awful.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

1 hour ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

While that "leak" was beyond miserable, and almost certainly wrong, I could see Anet going the route of having Lyssa maybe not be the source of, but a factor in helping perpetuate, the isolationism and xenophobia of Cantha.

Sure but this and that are totally different.

Well, I'd disagree with xenophobia part, since that counts not just to non-humans, but non-Canthan humans and that still feels off for the human/mortal-loving Lyssa.

 

And it'd be rather weird for them to retcon it into "it was Lyssa all along" when it was mortal neo-nationalism caused by the deaths and horrors witnessed first hand brought upon by the Affliction that led to this notion. Not to mention it would trivialize the horrors of the Affliction - which they already did with the Scarab Plague I guess but at least the Scarab Plague had never been part of undeniable canon lore witnessed by players. Players saw that horror in Factions with characters we personally knew turning into Afflicted throughout the game (albeit only one was highlighted), and with side quests where grieving wives beg us to kill their husband that's now shambling around as an Afflicted quietly calling out said wife's name.

 

I'd very much hope they don't diminish the subtext horror that was painfully plainly visible in Factions and the direct cause of the xenophobia witnessed in Winds of Change.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

40 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I'd very much hope they don't diminish the subtext horror that was painfully plainly visible in Factions and the direct cause of the xenophobia witnessed in Winds of Change.

Agreed, which is why I wouldn't want her to be the cause of it, but rather a perpetrator of it in this hypothetical scenario.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The Jade Wind was in 872 AE. Primordus, the first Elder Dragon to wake up, woke up in 1120 AE. The DSD is established via The Machien story instance and City of Hope instance to be second to have woken up in this cycle, third being Jormag, who woke up in 1165 AE.

 

This means the DSD woke up sometime between 1120 AE and 1165 AE, though its presence wasn't felt by those in Central Tyria until about 50 years prior to the game, when quaggans and krait were forced ashore from the Unending Ocean. This means that the DSD was not in Cantha in circa 1275 AE.

 

It most certainly did not wake up and move to the Jade Sea before the events of GW1, let alone 200 years before said events.

 

Unless its lore got retconned like that one leak that got 3 very simple predictions in the stream right so now redditors went and prcolaimed it all correct, which proclaims and all this tentacled horrors stuff was Lyssa's doing because Lyssa and the DSD are in cohoots and the DSD is actually a good guy but is slowly going insane now, and the two who love mortals so much decided it'd be a great idea to mass murder and exodus hundreds of thousands of mortals.

 

If that leak becomes half true, then lore has firmly hit the WoW stage of quality.

 

While the reddit thing is a bit silly. We have mistook a dragon's influence as it's physical presence before with Jormag and Drakkar Lake.

 

The Krait and Quaggan were forced out of their home by something. That something being the DSD dragon is a good assumption but not necessarily the case.

 

It is possible this is fairly simple story with no twists. And it's just a supercharged DSD trying to eat all this dragon jade technology, and some super intelligent Canthan is going to deus ex machina a way to stop it without killing it with Taimi.

 

It is way more interesting if dragon jade is literally from dragons.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Daniel Handler.4816

[Bast.7253]

6 minutes ago, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

 

While the reddit thing is a bit silly. We have mistook a dragon's influence as it's physical presence before with Jormag and Drakkar Lake.

 

The Krait and Quaggan were forced out of their home by something. That something being the DSD dragon is a good assumption but not necessarily the case.

 

It is possible this is fairly simple story with no twists. And it's just a supercharged DSD trying to eat all this dragon jade technology, and some super intelligent Cantha is going to deus ex machina a way to stop it without killing it with Taimi.

 

Probably. Perhaps the "dragonjade" is just jade that's absorbed excess magic from the defeated dragons and has nothing to do with the DSD. Perhaps the green canisters lighting up in the trailer shows what's happening when we kill Primordus and Jormag and all of that magic is going straight to her airship, thus them lighting up like beacons.

And because it's all being supercharged the DSD starts attacking and enters the picture?

I don't understand the part in the trailer where the Aetherblade chick says "if it weren't for me, your children would be stuck in the past." Because it sounds like she's talking to the being that was talking to Aurene referring to her as a "little one." Who are the children in this instance? Is it Aurene, Kunavang, and the rest of the dragons and she's talking to "mother?" 

Or is it something else entirely and the children are "the mortals/humans" of Tyria? I don't know. Not a lot to speculate on here but I do think the canisters lighting up in the trailer are due to Primordus and Jormag's deaths.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

59 minutes ago, Bast.7253 said:

I don't understand the part in the trailer where the Aetherblade chick says "if it weren't for me, your children would be stuck in the past." Because it sounds like she's talking to the being that was talking to Aurene referring to her as a "little one." Who are the children in this instance? Is it Aurene, Kunavang, and the rest of the dragons and she's talking to "mother?"

Well, if Lyssa has any involvement in the plot at all, "children" mean humanity, or at least the Canthans. In a non literal "humanity are the children of the gods" thing.

 

If the other voice is mother then"being stuck in the past" could refer to the Elder dragon cycle, and his new character's technology helps them move beyond it.

[PseudoNewb.5468]

2 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

I don't understand the part in the trailer where the Aetherblade chick says "if it weren't for me, your children would be stuck in the past." Because it sounds like she's talking to the being that was talking to Aurene referring to her as a "little one." Who are the children in this instance? Is it Aurene, Kunavang, and the rest of the dragons and she's talking to "mother?" 

Or is it something else entirely and the children are "the mortals/humans" of Tyria?

Maybe dragons are the originator of mortal life on Tyria. Of course the lady says YOUR children (implying exclusion of herself), because humans aren't in the group of mortals created by dragons as they where brought to Tyria by the human gods. The dragons are certainly capable of originating life, as seen in Sylvari. Hell, Primordus' destroyers could be some sort of prototype lifeform he designed before the birth of mortals.

Edited July 31, 2021 by PseudoNewb.5468

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 7/31/2021 at 10:51 AM, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

 

While the reddit thing is a bit silly. We have mistook a dragon's influence as it's physical presence before with Jormag and Drakkar Lake.

Well, not really. Originally, Drakkar was intended to be Jormag, and the reason why we players "mistook" the situation is because when we were first introduced to the story of the Elder Dragons in 2007, we had concept art of Drakkar Lake explicitly calling the beast within as an Elder Dragon (then dubbed "ancient dragon").

 

Drakkar was changed into a champion mid-development for GW2, because of its size. And even then, there's still a bunch of dialogue referring to Jormag waking up from Drakkar Lake in the core game.

 

So it is less of "players mistook Drakkar to be Jormag" and more "ArenaNet changed their minds after introducing us, and skillfully weaved out of the argument of retcon by saying the line was solely the concept art and not the canon lore".

On 7/31/2021 at 10:51 AM, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

The Krait and Quaggan were forced out of their home by something. That something being the DSD dragon is a good assumption but not necessarily the case.

I mean, we're explicitly told it is the Elder Dragons' influence that forced them out - in-game, at that. We were also told the DSD is evil and woke up in the deepest parts of the seas - which is also where the krait are said to have made their homeland, before being forced out.

 

This would turn into a scenario of "we never actually said that statue next to the Central Transfer Chamber was Primordus" that devs tried to weave in Season 3, despite interviews and the like actually do making that statement.

On 7/31/2021 at 10:51 AM, Daniel Handler.4816 said:

It is way more interesting if dragon jade is literally from dragons.

That would be a massive retcon though, as it's firmly established that the jade comes from the Jade Wind, which is also firmly established to have been caused by Shiro using dark rituals under Abaddon's guidance to absorb a gift of magic granted by Dwayna which was intended to be used to provide a healthier harvest bounty in the year.

 

It'd be a hard sell to tell us "oh, the human scholars got it wrong and the magic from the goddess of healing and air actually came from the Elder Dragon of Water and Jade" or something.

On 7/31/2021 at 11:02 AM, Bast.7253 said:

I don't understand the part in the trailer where the Aetherblade chick says "if it weren't for me, your children would be stuck in the past." Because it sounds like she's talking to the being that was talking to Aurene referring to her as a "little one." Who are the children in this instance? Is it Aurene, Kunavang, and the rest of the dragons and she's talking to "mother?" 

"[they] would be stuck in the past" and "I gave them a future" are very common phrases used in reference to saving people or inventing new technology that betters lives in some fashion, and this person is an inventor of sorts with this dragonjade technology. So the meaning behind those lines is pretty clear, IMO, and referring simply to the fact that this person has caused many advancements for Cantha

 

Who the mysterious voice is (and Joon very much is talking to the mysterious voice that talks about Aurene just prior - I don't think the voice is talking to Aurene, so much as spying and musing on Aurene, who senses their presence) is a bit of an unknown.

 

I'm currently thinking it's the mysterious Empress Yin mentioned by Tom Abernathy's tweets, and not the DSD or "Mother" as people have been speculating, because this voice also talks to Kuunavang about the importance and significance of mortals. Something that runs complete counter to the Elder Dragons. This would also explain Yoon's lines perfectly. "Your children" referring to the people of Cantha, and the rest referring to the advancements of technology.

 

The question left for me, assuming I'm right, would be the full meaning behind the line: "I'm not - Cantha's not a spoke in some great cosmic wheel". I'm currently interpreting it as Yoon and the mysterious voice (Yin?) wanting to break the cycle of the All and End the need Of Dragons.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

23 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

If the other voice is mother then"being stuck in the past" could refer to the Elder dragon cycle, and his new character's technology helps them move beyond it.

This doesn't make sense to me, since those children are now all dead except one (the DSD). And Yoon had nothing to do with that.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I'm currently thinking it's the mysterious Empress Yin mentioned by Tom Abernathy's tweets, and not the DSD or "Mother" as people have been speculating, because this voice also talks to Kuunavang about the importance and significance of mortals. Something that runs complete counter to the Elder Dragons. This would also explain Yoon's lines perfectly. "Your children" referring to the people of Cantha, and the rest referring to the advancements of technology.

This would make sense as to why the voice is talking to Kuunavang at all in the first trailer. Kuunavang is kind of an important creature in Cantha, and I doubt most ever get the chance to see her, let alone talk to her. Whereas the Emperor/Empress doing so makes sense, especially with Cantha's Asian culture parallels.

 

Though this makes me wonder why Aurene would feel any sort of familiarity with, what we can only assume, its just some random human leader(at least from Aurene's perspective)

[EdwinLi.1284]

I don't know why but I feel Kanaxai maybe involved. For a long time I been speculating about Kanaxai being some how important to the lore in of Cantha in GW2 due to his unknown origins and how his allegiances remains unknown. I am not saying he maybe involved with DSD but maybe involved with something else that plays a important role in the lore. There is also the mystery why he was in the Deep even before the Jade Wind trapped him down there.

I am still curious how did Cantha discover their Jade power Technology. It is a interesting development few people thought may happen due to how Cantha been in such a isolationism state for so long with the only trade for technology coming from Zhephyrites arriving yearly. Not to mention only salvagable technology would be old Asura GW1 technology.

Edited August 2, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[alcopaul.2156]

Luxons are said to be expert in engineering and because of this, they can navigate the Jade Sea with no problems..

[EdwinLi.1284]

On 8/8/2021 at 2:01 AM, alcopaul.2156 said:

Luxons are said to be expert in engineering and because of this, they can navigate the Jade Sea with no problems..

That does not explain how Cantha invented the Jade Power technology during the 500 years they have been locked down.

Luxon have always been masters of using Jade in GW1 so that is always known since their entire culture depends on it during the time of GW1.

Edited August 10, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[alcopaul.2156]

13 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

That does not explain how Cantha invented the Jade Power technology during the 500 years they have been locked down.

Luxon have always been masters of using Jade in GW1 so that is always known since their entire culture depends on it during the time of GW1.

i think that the Jade Power Technology is sort of a Perpetual Moving Machine or Perpetual Propelling Machine (which could be powered with Chemicals that undergo forward and back chemical reaction, thus maintaining a perpetual chemical motion under constant energy) that powers the Luxon ships...

 

so making their all ships using green energy...

 

I would think that there were Canthan passengers who rode the Luxon ships and tried to reverse engineer the Luxon Technology but there were "spiritual" components that they missed..

 

and the question, "will the Luxon entrust their engineering secrets to the Canthans finally?"

 

and looks like Kurzicks and Luxons won't ever fight anymore so Looks Like it's a shared technology now..

Edited August 10, 2021 by alcopaul.2156

[EdwinLi.1284]

9 hours ago, alcopaul.2156 said:

i think that the Jade Power Technology is sort of a Perpetual Moving Machine or Perpetual Propelling Machine (which could be powered with Chemicals that undergo forward and back chemical reaction, thus maintaining a perpetual chemical motion under constant energy) that powers the Luxon ships...

 

so making their all ships using green energy...

 

I would think that there were Canthan passengers who rode the Luxon ships and tried to reverse engineer the Luxon Technology but there were "spiritual" components that they missed..

 

and the question, "will the Luxon entrust their engineering secrets to the Canthans finally?"

 

and looks like Kurzicks and Luxons won't ever fight anymore so Looks Like it's a shared technology now..

If I remember right, the Luxons and kurzicks are long since disbanded due to the unification of Cantha the previous Emperor did which mostly wiped out and subjugated the Luxons and Kurzicks at 1127 AE. There are survivors but Luxons and Kurzicks as a Faction should be no more by the time of GW2.

Those that survive should only be just considered normal Canthan Citizens at this point. 

The Jade technology most likey was discovered and invented after the events of 1127 AE so only Luxons who maybe involved are just descendants of the Luxons. The other aspect I am current guessing is that the Ministry of Purity salvaged Luxon technology after destroying the Luxon and Kurzicks for a scientist division that will eventually create the Jade Power Technology.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

15 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

If I remember right, the Luxons and kurzicks are long since disbanded due to the unification of Cantha the previous Emperor did which mostly wiped out and subjugated the Luxons and Kurzicks at 1127 AE. There are survivors but Luxons and Kurzicks as a Faction should be no more by the time of GW2.

To clarify, the Movement of the World never said the Kurzicks and Luxons were wiped out. Counter, it merely states:

 

Quote

He defeated the Luxons and the Kurzick, incorporating these disparate people back into his nation

And the thing is: you cannot incorporate a people who are extinct. This indicates that Kurzicks and Luxons are very much alive and well after Usoku's campaign that began in 1127 AE (no indication on how long it lasted, mind you, so they weren't fully subjugated in 1127).

How many survived, and how their culture looks now that they're no longer vassal states but fully part of the empire, is unclear.

[Psientist.6437]

All a civilization needs to make scientific progress is an evidence based method for studying nature, people able to use the method and resources to keep these people busy. With these ingredients, Canthan science would progress despite being isolated from Kryta.

 

Some really interesting possibilities with DragonJade. If I remember correctly, most of the lesser and high dragons in Cantha were corrupted by the Jade Wind. Kuunavang and other high dragons could have begun studying ways to remove that corruption. Their research would naturally overlap with any research being done by Canthans. We could find the very thing that drove Kralkatorik mad, dragons and mortals living in peace.

 

If we want to find out more about the beginning of the Elder Dragon cycle we need a reliable source of information. The DSD is the only reliable source. The information could be delivered in a villain speech but there is a more interesting possibility. The DSD wakes and heads for the Jade Sea, a source of divine magic the size of an ocean. Canthans use DragonJade to trap the DSD. Since they are the dragon kingdom and Dragon Jade was developed in part to free high dragons from corruption, they keep it imprisoned. Doesn't hurt that their DragonJade machine is made more powerful. The machine bears some of the burden of All and the DSD slowly regains some of their sanity. They tell us how the All and the Dragon Cycle started. As Elder Dragons die, the machine is pushed to its limits and the prison is beginning to fail. The ruler of Cantha decides Cantha isn't a spoke on a cosmic wheel, Cantha is the cosmic wheel. Rather than work with us to reset the cycle, they free the DSD and become its Champion.

 

edit: An imprisoned DSD could also explain why Taimi's "research" failed to deliver data about the DSD.

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Psientist.6437

[Kusumura.8642]

So long as GUNDAMs are part of Canthan culture, I don't really mind what all else is in the lore.

 

And as long as Engineers get to pilot GUNDAMs for their Elite specs, sure. >:D.