ranger elite spec icon speculate and theme

[Lazze.9870]

2 hours ago, Boqin.4369 said:

I still don't understand why everyone wants another meele build, like hammer, sword, mace,... What I would like to see is finally being able to have an actual ranged build. Longbow is useless, its neither single target nor aoe weapon. Its stuck somewhere betwen. Shortbow is a "CC" weapon and doesn't have any actual dps. 

Thats why I would like to see a rifle build for rangers. High ranged single target weapon. It would actually have a purpose and not be stuck somewhere in the middle and no "belong".

 

And you think rifle would make a difference? At best its aoe potential would perform exactly like longbow. And YET another projectile weapon. Hell no.

 

I want a hammer because it is likely the only weapon - outside of possibly scepter on some nature magic freak spec - that could give ranger an actual zerg role in wvw that is more welcomed than immobbeast/immob druid.

[Lazze.9870]

On 7/30/2021 at 11:28 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Hence why I think that shield could be a great weapon choice for them.

 

Like I already said in the other thread, shield wouldn't change anything if you want an actual new role.

 

It could be a slight upgrade to the off-hand dagger for a sidenoder role. I can almost say that with certainty because Anet is pretty tame on what they do with ranger weapons, so there is almost no way a ranger shield would be much different from the warrior one. Maybe flashier, but probably still some sort of CC and some sort of block. I could imagine a Remorseless GS/Axe-Shield build that could benefit slightly more from Moment of Clarity (if it has daze/stun) and get a second block instead of the dagger evade.

 

Ranger sword likely wont pair well with a typical GW2 shield for anything else than trolling/stalling. Then there is obviously the question of "what if ranger shield is completely different". Well, then axe is possibly out because it has no defenses. Sword is still awkward after the rework, the only on-demand evade from Hornet's Sting is so ridiculously slow compared to similar skills (looking at DD staff). It doesn't even cleave on all three autos yet, and that's its source of damage. And then there is of course the fact that if the shield behaves completely different, it might not do anything for a bruiser role anyway.

 

Ranger is probably one of the worst professions to recieve an off-hand from an elite spec (yes, I know engie is worse and that engie probably should have had mh mace as a part of its core class).  I prefer hammer. A scepter/focus combo could be cool if they lean into that side of ranger, but we won't get two weapons and I feel that only getting one of them would be a bit.. meh. I don't care for getting any of the remaining weapons on a ranger. Firearms are meh, mace is meh. I guess off-hand sword is a thing, but it comes with a lot of the same issues as shield.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

I'm thinking we could get the shield. The icon seems to be an animal face but could also be representing a shield. I'd like to see a camouflage/stealth spec for the Ranger, with shield as the new weapon 🙂

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

I also think that the second icon is ranger espec. Eevrbody says warden, but maybe the ranger will transform into a juggernaut. (btw. the 8. icon looks like a kind of juggernaut). I hope for a defensive spec with mace and shield (not the only espec that get main and second hand weapon).

 

A dream would be a fast ranger with two swords. Something like a shadow runner/walker. Instead of a permanent pet, he/she can summon shadows (with pet traits), that runs towards the target and attack it (a bit like illusions from mesmer). After creating a shadow, he/she become invisible for a very short time. so the enemy can easily find the real ranger, but lose the target from time to time. 🙈 But this seems illusionary 😒

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Aleksander Suburb.4287

[Substance E.4852]

17 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Like I already said in the other thread, shield wouldn't change anything if you want an actual new role.

 

It could be a slight upgrade to the off-hand dagger for a sidenoder role. I can almost say that with certainty because Anet is pretty tame on what they do with ranger weapons, so there is almost no way a ranger shield would be much different from the warrior one. Maybe flashier, but probably still some sort of CC and some sort of block. I could imagine a Remorseless GS/Axe-Shield build that could benefit slightly more from Moment of Clarity (if it has daze/stun) and get a second block instead of the dagger evade.

 

Ranger sword likely wont pair well with a typical GW2 shield for anything else than trolling/stalling. Then there is obviously the question of "what if ranger shield is completely different". Well, then axe is possibly out because it has no defenses. Sword is still awkward after the rework, the only on-demand evade from Hornet's Sting is so ridiculously slow compared to similar skills (looking at DD staff). It doesn't even cleave on all three autos yet, and that's its source of damage. And then there is of course the fact that if the shield behaves completely different, it might not do anything for a bruiser role anyway.

 

Ranger is probably one of the worst professions to recieve an off-hand from an elite spec (yes, I know engie is worse and that engie probably should have had mh mace as a part of its core class).  I prefer hammer. A scepter/focus combo could be cool if they lean into that side of ranger, but we won't get two weapons and I feel that only getting one of them would be a bit.. meh. I don't care for the rest of the remaining weapons on a ranger.

In theory, whatever gimmick they give us, plus new utilities, COULD offset the minimal impact of 2 offhand skills on our already "meh" kit similar to how Soulbeast's least interesting/impactful component is the dagger mainhand weapon.

But, it's wise to not get one's hopes up too much with "it'd cool if we could have X" after Druid and Soulbeast.

Both generally perform their specific niche well but neither lived up to speculation or theory crafting that assumed both would be great team support outside of pve.

Druid is probably one of the worst pvp team healers and stance share was crippled from the start and even got nuked further to spite speed runners.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Substance E.4852

[anduriell.6280]

2 hours ago, Substance E.4852 said:

In theory, whatever gimmick they give us, plus new utilities, COULD offset the minimal impact of 2 offhand skills on our already "meh" kit similar to how Soulbeast's least interesting/impactful component is the dagger mainhand weapon.

But, it's wise to not get one's hopes up too much with "it'd cool if we could have X" after Druid and Soulbeast.

Both generally perform their specific niche well but neither lived up to speculation or theory crafting that assumed both would be great team support outside of pve.

Druid is probably one of the worst pvp team healers and stance share was crippled from the start and even got nuked further to spite speed runners.

Some offtopic here: I do agree with your point, the thing is Anet can do only as much with one traitline, one weapon and one set of utility skills. We already have the experience with Druid and SBeast. 

Because core is not balanced or there, they feed the new e-spec until it breaks and then proceed to nerf it to the oblivion because there is no middle ground for those. 

 

Anet needs to show some love to the ranger in form of deep rework and rebalance. After that the e-specs will click almost by themselves without so much effort. 

 

Returning to the topic at hand The new icon looks is pretty close to this weapon's icon  Spade_of_the_Deep that's why i keep thinking it looks like an spear. I would not mind an land spear if it plays melee with CC and such. 

[InsaneQR.7412]

On 7/29/2021 at 1:07 AM, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Def seems to be a more defence focus spec with a helmet. Gives me am augment vibe where you attune to a pet/spirit and it changes your abilities

That could be really dope.

But with 5 archetypes this would increase the skill count massively and idk if Anet would do that.

[InsaneQR.7412]

52 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

 

Returning to the topic at hand The new icon looks is pretty close to this weapon's icon  Spade_of_the_Deep that's why i keep thinking it looks like an spear. I would not mind an land spear if it plays melee with CC and such. 

It could also just be an arrowhead shield upside down.

Just the fact that it lacks a shaft and the fact that only land weapons got new legendaries, makes me doubt that we will get underwater weapons on land. So i dont think spear will be a thing.

[anduriell.6280]

2 minutes ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

It could also just be an arrowhead shield upside down.

I don't remember Anet using an Upside down icon to reflect a weapon/object for any e-spec.  In the new ones also all weapons/objects are shown in the correct orientation, so i have my doubts it is a shield. 

[Lazze.9870]

On 7/31/2021 at 7:07 AM, Substance E.4852 said:

In theory, whatever gimmick they give us, plus new utilities, COULD offset the minimal impact of 2 offhand skills on our already "meh" kit similar to how Soulbeast's least interesting/impactful component is the dagger mainhand weapon.

 

Of course it could offset it. But I can guarantee you it won't give ranger any new role. Like I said, might replace off-hand dagger. Otherwise we still run LB/GS. I'm assuming this isn't a condi spec.

 

Dagger truly was the saddest part of soulbeast. Not because I mind having a dagger on ranger, but 1) this should have been a core weapon and 2) it's serves no real purpose. Yeah, it fills the condi melee slot, but its numbers had to be buffed until it was PvE competetive with sword on power and outdamaged axe for condi - a weapon that doesn't even have conditions on its AA. They could just as well have buffed condi output in other areas to achieve the same thing (like giving a condition modifier on Furious Strength etc). Then they left it. A shield may very well end up being well designed, but if it at the end of the day only serves as an upgrade to off-hand dagger one dueling/sidenoding builds, then what's the point?

 

Imagine having a ranger spec that can go petless in exchange for stats and skills and even share personal stance skills, and then another ranger spec made to support, and yet none of them have any meaningful impact for wvw zergs outside of niche immob roles, and is still stuck as sidenoders or +1 in pvp. It's borderline funny.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[InsaneQR.7412]

1 hour ago, Acyk.9671 said:

yeah soulbeast is like a shapeshifter but dagger isn't that attractive. They should have kept dagger and poison for an e spec focused on stealth and skirmishing

Soulbeast would have kept the ability to merge and stances but get a heavier weapon like shield or hammer.

And then you can use one those 2 to create a 3rd e-spec

The Soulbeast mechanic was leftover druid tech that didnt work yet so they repurposed it for Sb. Dagger was placed in because ranger didnt had a proper condi option for melee.

 

I would have been happy tbh if Sbeast would have gotten a more brutal weapon. But i can understand why they did it. My biggest gripes with soulbeast are the traits. They feel incongruent with the rest of the class with some outliers that would fit well a tanky condi spec that hits fast and often.

[Chemistral.7318]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they say in the First Look that they would break some of their rules for elite specializations?
If so, that arrowhead could possibly indicate a new e-spec that uses an already existing weapon (Longbow/Shortbow) and just change the skills entirely.

Honestly while I think that would upset a lot of people, (an understandable frustration as getting something brand new is naturally more exciting than getting something re-tooled) personally I'm excited to see what new uses we could get from existing weapons. (And this is coming from someone who enjoys the current iteration of Longbow.)

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

If anet want to troll all other classes, they will give them 80% projectile skills and Ranger get 2-3 reflecting shields 🤣

[InsaneQR.7412]

2 hours ago, Chemistral.7318 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they say in the First Look that they would break some of their rules for elite specializations?
If so, that arrowhead could possibly indicate a new e-spec that uses an already existing weapon (Longbow/Shortbow) and just change the skills entirely.

Honestly while I think that would upset a lot of people, (an understandable frustration as getting something brand new is naturally more exciting than getting something re-tooled) personally I'm excited to see what new uses we could get from existing weapons. (And this is coming from someone who enjoys the current iteration of Longbow.)

 

Tbh i think they will rather change class mechanics more drastically than repurposing old weapons (except maybe warrior which is really stacked).

 

So i would put my eggs into the basket that we will lose the pet first before we get a repurposed weapon. I mean that mesmer loses clones completely is also quite drastic, so maybe the go more in this direction.

[Kodama.6453]

3 minutes ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

 

Tbh i think they will rather change class mechanics more drastically than repurposing old weapons (except maybe warrior which is really stacked).

 

So i would put my eggs into the basket that we will lose the pet first before we get a repurposed weapon. I mean that mesmer loses clones completely is also quite drastic, so maybe the go more in this direction.

One icon shows the head of an animal and it seems likely that this is the ranger elite spec.

 

With such an icon, it is hard to believe that ranger will lose the pet entirely. It's more likely that they go more into the pet mechanic, but maybe they give rangers a workaround to make them more viable, like allowing pets to dodge stuff or something.

[InsaneQR.7412]

11 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

One icon shows the head of an animal and it seems likely that this is the ranger elite spec.

 

With such an icon, it is hard to believe that ranger will lose the pet entirely. It's more likely that they go more into the pet mechanic, but maybe they give rangers a workaround to make them more viable, like allowing pets to dodge stuff or something.

Totally fair point. On the other hand SB had a bear claw as its icon but deamphasized the pet mechanic. Its a bit of a hard guess what we will get just from some icon acpects.

 

Tbh i think a juggernaut pet with a shield as weapon and concecrations as skills seems very congruent design to me. Still just an educated guess but i wouldnt be surprised if it would go that direction.

Edited August 1, 2021 by InsaneQR.7412

[Dezember.1295]

16 hours ago, Chemistral.7318 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they say in the First Look that they would break some of their rules for elite specializations?
If so, that arrowhead could possibly indicate a new e-spec that uses an already existing weapon (Longbow/Shortbow) and just change the skills entirely.

Honestly while I think that would upset a lot of people, (an understandable frustration as getting something brand new is naturally more exciting than getting something re-tooled) personally I'm excited to see what new uses we could get from existing weapons. (And this is coming from someone who enjoys the current iteration of Longbow.)

 
An interesting idea - but it is a very risky option. If the new version is far better or far worse, then it will affect the balance even more than a unbalanced new weapon. I would not disapprove of it, however, as I would love to see other ways to use the bow (either LB or SB) for rangers. In the end it would all rest upon the execution.

Personally - I am hoping to see them experiment with the idea of traditional main hand and off-hand weapons. I mean, imagine a warhorn, focus or even shield in main-hand or a scepter in off-hand :D It would be cool!

Regarding weapons for rangers... Personally I do not hope to see neither hammer, gun nor shield - but I could kinda how SOME of them could make sense, assuming that they will keep introducing a new weapon for elite specs. I would personally not use any of those weapons on a ranger (or even pistol/rifle for that matter), though, as it is too far from my favored ranger class fantasy. 

Regarding the teased symbols and the potential archetype, then I definitely believe that we might be dealing with a more pet-oriented specialization as that is something we're currently lacking. The way I see it, this could be executed in three ways:

1) More than one pet (and I hate this option and severely hope this wont be a thing) - lazy approach and I for one do not wanna play with two pets.
2) Better and exclusive pets for the elite specialization only. I'd imagine something like Tamer from BDO.
3) Summoning archetype where the ranger has a spiritual bond with a greater spirit, beast or creature where the entire kit envolves around either having a "weaker" pet that can be enhanced and temporary empowered by the elite ability (alas, that would be very similar to Strength of the Pack from the vanilla kit) alternatively, a petless ranger that has a powerful temporary summoning with something like 1-2 minutes duration (similar to the Ghost Heart from Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire). However, the second alternative is very close to being the polar opposite/mirrored version of the Soulbeast, which makes it much less likely to be implemented (unfortunately).

[Lazze.9870]

9 hours ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

deamphasized the pet mechanic.

 

I wouldn't say it does. I mean, yes, you can play permanently merged and thus play "petless", but the core mechanic is still there just without the pet swap in combat, and merging in and out is still very much a way of interacting with your pet. The choice of what pet you run highly matters on your build, and soulbeast arguably opened up for otherwise unused pets on core/druid to be used "viably".

 

There is and should be room for the scourge treatment. And by that I'm not asking for shades-like mechanics and mindless aoe spam, but more or less completely forgoing the core mechanic. The beast symbol in the icon could very well mean that the ranger itself becomes more "beastly" by forgoing the pet. It can make sense to use a beast icon on a bruiser-type ranger even if it doesn't use the core pet mechanic. But it could obviously also represent the complete opposite, a very pet focused spec. I hope not, I dread the thought of playing more with GW2's awful AI than I already do.

[anduriell.6280]

I  would not have high hopes about the petless ranger, Soulbeast already offers a similar petless  play so it would be to soulbeast v2.0 

 

Also Anet has stated multiple times pet companion is a mechanic which ranger will always have. 

But we may even be wrong about the icons. Maybe Mesmer is the mask like icon and the new ranger is other and not the helmet. 

[Ashantara.8731]

On 7/28/2021 at 9:19 PM, BadSanta.6527 said:

since arenet said they going to break core mechaninc i hoping for things going to be crazy

 

I don't! Druid for ranger was already totally out-of-character. Rangers are hunters, druids are religious leaders - a healer made zero sense for the ranger profession, so they already broke core mechanics there to a huge extent.

 

This time, I want something fitting for ranger - perhaps "Hunter" with a rifle? Or something wild like a "Mountain Man" (hammer/mace) spec or a "Sea Ranger" (also rifle --> harpoon). Or a "Stalker" spec with invisibility and ranged traps like a net (focus?).

[quaniesan.8497]

We will transform into werebeast  😒  if that's what icon trying tell me.....

[Lazze.9870]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

it would be to soulbeast v2.0 

 

It wouldn't. It would have some similarities with a merged soulbeast, in some ways it needs to for trait interactions, but it wouldn't be a 2.0. If soulbeast always was permamerged and the pet swap swapped between two chosen merged pets, it would be different. But that isn't the case.

[Lazze.9870]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

a healer made zero sense for the ranger profession

 

You're suggesting firearms for a profession that is "tuned with nature", but think healing inspired by the guild wars druids (emphasis on guild wars, not druids from other games or the Celts) and the healing waters of the Maguuma jungle is out of place? Healing waters is even a part of the core profession with healing spring, and you got nature spirits to support allies. Support makes perfect sense on a class that deals with nature magic. You're the one making zero sense.

 

And no, they didn't completely break the ranger mechanic with druid. Quite the opposite by keeping the kitten pet. Which is what matters when we talk about breaking core profession mechanics. Druid was a huge step away from what core ranger was able to do pre-HoT, but that is different. That is one of the points of having elite specs to begin with.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[sajah varel.9261]

I'm hoping for my bunny thumper to come back. There no feeling like having your pet maul an unfortunate soul while you lock them down on the ground with a good old hammer bash.

That was so fun in GW1 pvp.

Edited August 2, 2021 by sajah varel.9261