ranger elite spec icon speculate and theme

[Ashantara.8731]

18 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

You're suggesting firearms for a profession that is "tuned with nature"

 

Even native American tribes, who were tuned with Nature, did hunt. Hunting prey is part of Nature's cycle. They're not vegans.

[Kodama.6453]

8 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Even native American tribes, who were tuned with Nature, did hunt. Hunting prey is part of Nature's cycle. They're not vegans.

I don't think this is what they meant.

 

More like that firearms are oftenly associated with industrialisation and exploitism of nature, which would be a thematical opposite of ranger.

 

For reference, look at stuff like Princess Mononoke, this movie is highlighting why people might have these associations with firearms.

[Ashantara.8731]

Just now, Kodama.6453 said:

More like that firearms are oftenly associated with industrialisation and exploitism of nature, which would be a thematical opposite of ranger.

 

Well, ranged weapon types in GW2 are very limited - and rangers already have longbows and shortbows, even staves, so... (I doubt they will introduce new weapon types like spears.)

[Kodama.6453]

5 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

Well, ranged weapon types in GW2 are very limited - and rangers already have longbows and shortbows, even staves, so... (I doubt they will introduce new weapon types like spears.)

This assumes that rangers will get a ranged weapon in the first place, which isn't necessarily the case.

 

Ranger already has an arsenal of ranged weapons with both bows, axe and the staff of druid. So I don't know if another ranged weapons is really a niche which needs to get filled with the next elite spec.

[Lazze.9870]

28 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Even native American tribes, who were tuned with Nature, did hunt. Hunting prey is part of Nature's cycle. They're not vegans.

 

Again with the irrelevant comparisons. Kodama summed it up nicely anyway.

 

Rifle doesn't add to ranger. That's actually the bigger issue. We don't need a second longbow. It's not a "ranged class" either, so there is no need to fill every ranged combat niche there is.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Ashantara.8731]

26 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Rifle adds NOTHING to ranger. NOTHING. That's actually the bigger issue. We don't need a second longbow.

 

No, but perhaps the traits and utility skills do? Also, rifle skills don't have to be the traditional "shoot and kill" skills, they can be anything. Furthermore, rangers in certain eras did start using rifles instead of bows, it's part of the profession and its evolution.

 

I don't want a Healer for ranger, and I don't want anything else that doesn't fit the profession, either. I added more suggestions than just rifle, but you seem kind of focused on that. So much for "skipping the rest of my comment." 😉

 

  

34 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

This assumes that rangers will get a ranged weapon in the first place, which isn't necessarily the case.

 

I made other suggestions, too (mace, hammer, harpoon, focus). Stop focusing on this one I made, geez...

 

Here is my full post:

  

20 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

 

I don't! Druid for ranger was already totally out-of-character. Rangers are hunters, druids are religious leaders - a healer made zero sense for the ranger profession, so they already broke core mechanics there to a huge extent.

 

This time, I want something fitting for ranger - perhaps "Hunter" with a rifle? Or something wild like a "Mountain Man" (hammer/mace) spec or a "Sea Ranger" (also rifle --> harpoon). Or a "Stalker" spec with invisibility and ranged traps like a net (focus?).

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Ashantara.8731

[Lazze.9870]

27 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

No, but perhaps the traits and utility skills do? Also, rifle skills don't have to be the traditional "shoot and kill" skills, they can be anything.

 

Then what's the point of the rifle then? Sure, you can add a spec that is more tuned towards the "hunter" side of thing, but adding longbow 2.0 is completely pointless. It doesn't matter what it does, it will be projectile based and ranger already suffers from having too much of that. Hammer and shield for bruiser-like roles, scepter/focus for nature magic attuned specs, off-hand sword for strider-like spec. Those are the remaining weapons that make sense and should come before anything else, unless they start branching out with new types of weapons. Firearms? No. Mace? Not really.

 

27 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I don't want a Healer for ranger, and I don't want anything else that doesn't fit the profession, either.

 

Healer does fit. I just told you why (you know, the part you skipped out on, hence why I pointed it out). Arguing against it is arguing against established themes that already exist on ranger (from both the original game and GW2) and the lore of the series itself. It is the perfect example of an elite spec adding a role that the core class didn't do very well because of design limitations. You not wanting it is a different issue, but not one you can make on the basis that it "doesn't fit" ranger.

 

27 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I added more suggestions than just rifle, but you seem kind of focused on that. So much for "skipping the rest of my comment."

 

Eh? The difference is that you made the argument that druid doesn't fit, whereas rifle do. I pointed out the fact that the complete opposite is true. You decided to ignore parts of it and continue to blabber on about how a healer spec doesn't fit ranger. 

 

I'm not opposing your other suggestions and they are irrelevant to the point I was making. You're still going on about how a healer doesn't fit though. I already told you why it fits.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Ashantara.8731]

1 minute ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Eh? The difference is that you made the argument that druid doesn't fit, whereas rifle do. I pointed out the fact that the complete opposite is true.

 

Sorry, but that is your opinion. And I am as entitled to mine as you are to yours, no? So no point in going back and forth.

[Kodama.6453]

On 8/2/2021 at 3:37 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

I made other suggestions, too (mace, hammer, harpoon, focus). Stop focusing on this one I made, geez...

Relax, I didn't mean to harass you over this one suggestion I made. I was just picking up the conversation since I noticed that you probably misunderstood why people are against a rifle for ranger specifically.

 

Mace, hammer, focus, scepter, shield, these are all fine additions for ranger in my eyes. Would be great for ranger to get a blunt weapon for once, considering that the big majority of their weapons are bladed. But my own bet for the next elite spec is the shield, deductng it from the icon shape.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Lazze.9870]

4 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Sorry, but that is your opinion.

 

Sorry, but telling you that ranger already had support options and themes that are tuned in those directions are not opinions, those are facts. Telling you that the waters in the Maguuma jungle had healing properties, and that the druid is inspired by that is also a fact.

 

My opinion that it fits is based on facts. Your opinion is based on "muhuhuh, I didn't want it". What real life druids did and what druid is in other games do aren't relevant. What's relevant is guild wars lore and Anet's take on the ranger profession, which is their unique take on an archetype. And it is isn't just a healer. It has buffs, which is in tune with ranger, and it has CCs, also in tune with ranger.

 

But of course, you're gonna completely ignore those facts for a third time. So here's a new one: Anet thought it fitted. And that's what matter in the end.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[BadSanta.6527]

17 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Sorry, but telling you that ranger already had support options and themes that are tuned in those directions are not opinions, those are facts. Telling you that the waters in the Maguuma jungle had healing properties, and that the druid is inspired by that is also a fact.

 

My opinion that it fits is based on facts. Your opinion is based on "muhuhuh, I didn't want it". What real life druids did and what druid is in other games do aren't relevant. What's relevant is guild wars lore and Anet's take on the ranger profession, which is their unique take on an archetype. And it is isn't just a healer. It has buffs, which is in tune with ranger, and it has CCs, also in tune with ranger.

 

But of course, you're gonna completely ignore those facts for a third time. So here's a new one: Anet thought it fitted. And that's what matter in the end.

you arggeument is irelvant becuse anet admit that they eanted soulbeast to be the druid but back then they simply did not have the technologic to do so , healing was not a lore choich just what comes to their maind back then

[Lazze.9870]

6 hours ago, BadSanta.6527 said:

you arggeument is irelvant becuse anet admit that they eanted soulbeast to be the druid but back then they simply did not have the technologic to do so , healing was not a lore choich just what comes to their maind back then

 

No, it's not irrelevant. It still fits the lore, it still fits established designs on Anet's version of Ranger. I never called it a lore choice, I said it fits the lore.

 

I'm not gonna repeat myself for the millionth time. If you can't see that a healer works for a ranger elite spec (not necessarily the way druid does it, just in general), then you're way too hung up on ranger from other mediums, and not Anet's version of ranger which has always had nature inspired support as a part of its kit.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[anduriell.6280]

31 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

I'm not gonna repeat myself for the millionth time. If you can't see that a healer works for a ranger elite spec (not necessarily the way druid does it, just in general), then you're way too hung up on ranger from other mediums, and not Anet's version of ranger which has always have nature inspired support as a part of its kit.

But that would be the point isn't it? The thing is the healer spec on Druid simply doesn't work. So maybe for the current state core ranger is a healing spec may not be possible. 

 

Not that i don't think Druid could not be super fun if core would allow to implement a healer and druid would be better done.  

[Lazze.9870]

2 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

But that would be the point isn't it?

 

Read the conversation. It's not about how druid heals, it's that is a healer at all that people don't think "fit" ranger.

 

I have said my opnion on how druid could/should have worked several times already. It's not perfect the way it is, but that's a discussion about mechanics, skills and traits. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Ehecatl.9172]

Healing definitely fits the ranger theme. The OG fantasy ranger, Aragorn, was a warrior and a healer both. Then the DnD ranger inspired by him that would go on to inspire the Guild Wars ranger also had healing spells on its spell list as a half caster, which is almost definitely why one of the five core ranger trait lines in GW2 is Nature Magic, which focuses on support and healing options to boost our support and healing spirit utility skills. Spirit skills that are a call back to the ranger spirits of GW1, who also still had Healing Spring, Troll's Unguent, and Melandru's Resilience to showcase nature's ability to heal.

 

The GW2 ranger has the potential to specialize in nature magic more deeply than the GW1 ranger could, and druid is the GW2 ranger taking it another step further.

 

Speaking of nature magic though, I am personally hoping for scepter and another elite spec that emphasizes the nature magic of the ranger but focuses more on offensive casting rather than healing like the druid. I like the mental image of the ranger wearing its symbol as a spooky face mask and holding a magic scepter made from wood and animal bone in one hand and a bloody dagger in the other. Maybe give it mantras to represent magical chanting or cantrips for additional spell tricks. 

 

Mechanics could go in a lot of directions. I am imagining no pet swap and instead a pet that gains the trait Conduit. When we cast certain spells a weaker version is produced around out pet wherever it is. Likely our animal spirit skills, so like Maul, Swoop, Viper's Strike, etc. Doubling up with us and our pet could be the big damage spike. Additionally have it be invulnerable as long as it is standing in one of our AoE ranges so it survives better.

 

Alternatively I wouldn't mind a sort of barbarian beastmaster with a two-handed warhammer that has both pets out together and has an F2 that is like a special combo that teleports both pets to the target before unleashing their skills on them. Utilities could be animal summons so it plays like a necro minion master, or it could go a different way and be a second set of Commands so we have more control over our dual pets.

 

Another thought I had was rangers getting kits. Maybe it'd come with shield and it would be more of a martial focus for ranger where our kits give us access to throwing javelins, a melee land-spear, and an elite survivalist kit with bombs, new traps, a camo disguise, etc.

 

Mechanics wise I am unsure. Maybe the pet is perma stowed and we instead get the engineer's toolbelt mechanic, but each skill summons our equipped pet with the equivalent tool-belt item attached that does whatever that skill was meant to do while it attacks the target.

[anduriell.6280]

53 minutes ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

Healing definitely fits the ranger theme. The OG fantasy ranger, Aragorn, was a warrior and a healer both. Then the DnD ranger inspired by him that would go on to inspire the Guild Wars ranger also had healing spells on its spell list as a half caster, which is almost definitely why one of the five core ranger trait lines in GW2 is Nature Magic, which focuses on support and healing options to boost our support and healing spirit utility skills. Spirit skills that are a call back to the ranger spirits of GW1, who also still had Healing Spring, Troll's Unguent, and Melandru's Resilience to showcase nature's ability to heal.

 

The GW2 ranger has the potential to specialize in nature magic more deeply than the GW1 ranger could, and druid is the GW2 ranger taking it another step further.

 

Speaking of nature magic though, I am personally hoping for scepter and another elite spec that emphasizes the nature magic of the ranger but focuses more on offensive casting rather than healing like the druid. I like the mental image of the ranger wearing its symbol as a spooky face mask and holding a magic scepter made from wood and animal bone in one hand and a bloody dagger in the other. Maybe give it mantras to represent magical chanting or cantrips for additional spell tricks. 

 

Mechanics could go in a lot of directions. I am imagining no pet swap and instead a pet that gains the trait Conduit. When we cast certain spells a weaker version is produced around out pet wherever it is. Likely our animal spirit skills, so like Maul, Swoop, Viper's Strike, etc. Doubling up with us and our pet could be the big damage spike. Additionally have it be invulnerable as long as it is standing in one of our AoE ranges so it survives better.

 

Alternatively I wouldn't mind a sort of barbarian beastmaster with a two-handed warhammer that has both pets out together and has an F2 that is like a special combo that teleports both pets to the target before unleashing their skills on them. Utilities could be animal summons so it plays like a necro minion master, or it could go a different way and be a second set of Commands so we have more control over our dual pets.

 

Another thought I had was rangers getting kits. Maybe it'd come with shield and it would be more of a martial focus for ranger where our kits give us access to throwing javelins, a melee land-spear, and an elite survivalist kit with bombs, new traps, a camo disguise, etc.

 

Mechanics wise I am unsure. Maybe the pet is perma stowed and we instead get the engineer's toolbelt mechanic, but each skill summons our equipped pet with the equivalent tool-belt item attached that does whatever that skill was meant to do while it attacks the target.

i am thinking it may be something related to the jugernauts with an f5 to transform as e-spec mechanic similar to a druid or necro . not revolutionary if that is the case.

 

I also heard the symbol is a charr kabuki  mask, which seems very plausible. Although then i have my doubts that would be the engeenier symbol because usually that profession is the one represented by a charr, while ranger is a silvary. 

 

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

On 8/3/2021 at 10:39 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

i am thinking it may be something related to the jugernauts with an f5 to transform as e-spec mechanic similar to a druid or necro.

 

Honestly, if they can make Bunny Thumper with a Juggernaut transformation, I'd dig it. Plus if I remember, Juggernaut Toss was designed as a Touch Skill, and Touch Rangers were also a thing in GW1, so there's also that to link Rangers to Juggernauts

Edited August 5, 2021 by ChronoPinoyX.7923

[kappa.2036]

  https://imgur.com/a/Q88Q31G

 

This icon is almost certainly the representation of the new ranger specialization. The picture clearly shows the head of an animal - seems like some kind of Felyne - and also the "leafy" drawing style is typical of the ranger class.

Looking at the icon, in my opinion this spec will be pet-focused - unlinke other ranger specialization. Druid got a celestial form, and the pet mechanic basically got untouched. Soulbeast  can merge with the pet, but nothing on the spec changes how pets work. So I think this will be the time when the mechanics of the class will see some changes.

Another thing i have considered - i could be wrong - is the "design" of the icon. It doesn't seem very "aggressive". I mean, they could have drawn a roaring animal, but they chose to go for a more "sober" design. Look at Soulbeast icon, is kinda "edgy" - in fact the spec got offensive minor traits and an offensive weapon -  but this one has smooth lines. This makes me think more about a defensive playstyle. Other than this, ranger already got pauldrons and pads with the previous specs, maybe this time we will get an helm similar to that animal face? About weapons: both shield, hammer, or even focus can fit that icon. Perhaps the shield is a little more reminiscent of the icon, but i'm not sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ehecatl.9172]

On 8/3/2021 at 5:39 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

i am thinking it may be something related to the jugernauts with an f5 to transform as e-spec mechanic similar to a druid or necro . not revolutionary if that is the case.

 

I also heard the symbol is a charr kabuki  mask, which seems very plausible. Although then i have my doubts that would be the engeenier symbol because usually that profession is the one represented by a charr, while ranger is a silvary. 

 

It being connected to Kurzick lore would be really cool. They were my favorite part of Factions. 

 

Interestingly I was looking through the GW2 outfits and noticed the Primal Warden's mask looks almost identical to this symbol.

 

So an elite spec themed around the Wardens of Echovald doesn't seem too far fetched.

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:29 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

Hopefully, the new Ranger elite specialization will be Bunny Thumper and uses a hammer.

 

I've heard that idea going around. I'd be very happy to see that coming to gw2. Warden sounds pretty good as a Ranger spec. If there's a profession that can be easily tied to Cantha (Kurzicks), that's Ranger for sure.

If not hammer, I was thinking maybe shield with more sustain? One thing I really enjoyed in soulbeast is bringing rangers closer to the enemy. Let's leave all the rifles aside for now. Too much pew pew is unhealthy... for meta events 😀

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

 

I've heard that idea going around. I'd be very happy to see that coming to gw2. Warden sounds pretty good as a Ranger spec. If there's a profession that can be easily tied to Cantha (Kurzicks), that's Ranger for sure.

I'd argue that guardian is also a really great fit for a Kurzick theme, considering that they were pictured as very religious people and guardian basically represents the "paladin" archetype in the game.

 

But yeah, if anyone gets a warden spec with ties to the Kurzick, then it's either ranger or guardian.

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

Today I was realizing, that the ranger icon looks like the new (horrible) lazer siege turtle. Especially the strange 'horns' that could indicate the "lazer"-canons. So is the icon maybe a mix of a turtle and a helmet or a turtle and the face of a juggernaut?

 

But I don't know what this class should do. Simply spawning or transforming into a siege turtle would be a little bit to overpowered 😛

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

4 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

I'd argue that guardian is also a really great fit for a Kurzick theme, considering that they were pictured as very religious people and guardian basically represents the "paladin" archetype in the game.

 

But yeah, if anyone gets a warden spec with ties to the Kurzick, then it's either ranger or guardian.

I personally think Ranger fits more in tune with Wardens, since the Warden were extremely protective of the Echovald Forest before the Jade Wind occurred, to the point that they made it their sole mission to restore the nature of the forest through whatever means necessary, which includes killing humans if needed. 

[Arrys.7145]

5 hours ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

 

I've heard that idea going around. I'd be very happy to see that coming to gw2. Warden sounds pretty good as a Ranger spec. If there's a profession that can be easily tied to Cantha (Kurzicks), that's Ranger for sure.

If not hammer, I was thinking maybe shield with more sustain? One thing I really enjoyed in soulbeast is bringing rangers closer to the enemy. Let's leave all the rifles aside for now. Too much pew pew is unhealthy... for meta events 😀

Miss the days of a DAOC scout with a 9 second shield stun and howitzer LB....

[lightDestroyer.1265]

On 7/30/2021 at 1:28 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

Ranger has longbow, shortbow and axe as ranged weapons. You might not like them, but it is there.

 

What rangers need, in my opinion, is a defensive bruiser spec. Something that gives ranger more survivability. Hence why I think that shield could be a great weapon choice for them.

Nothing can beat the defensive and offensive abilities of GS.  Nobody would use a shield given the state of main hand weapons unless you want the focus of the spec to be condi.