ranger elite spec icon speculate and theme

[makagoto.1204]

We are talking about Cantha here. In GW1 Cantha introduced the Spiritualist, which overlaps a bit with the GW2 Ranger, both using Spirits. It would make sense to give us back what they took from us, the moving spirits. Back in the day it was a rather powerful build and maybe it's time to reintroduce it and buff it up a bit. Going from this logic a scepter would make sense, but we are talking about anet here and logic doesn't apply a lot. Also the Revenant got it's Renegade espec already, which also kind of resembles the Spiritualist. In the end we will most likely get another useless espec, that peple will dislike. The necros, guardians and mesmers aren't all that satisfied with their new espec either. I don't think it will be a werebeast spec, because the soulbeast already gave us that.

[anduriell.6280]

15 hours ago, makagoto.1204 said:

We are talking about Cantha here. In GW1 Cantha introduced the Spiritualist, which overlaps a bit with the GW2 Ranger, both using Spirits. It would make sense to give us back what they took from us, the moving spirits. Back in the day it was a rather powerful build and maybe it's time to reintroduce it and buff it up a bit. Going from this logic a scepter would make sense, but we are talking about anet here and logic doesn't apply a lot. Also the Revenant got it's Renegade espec already, which also kind of resembles the Spiritualist. In the end we will most likely get another useless espec, that peple will dislike. The necros, guardians and mesmers aren't all that satisfied with their new espec either. I don't think it will be a werebeast spec, because the soulbeast already gave us that.

And what about Anet gives mobile spirits back to core and as new e-spec we get something new instead. 

 

 

[makagoto.1204]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

And what about Anet gives mobile spirits back to core and as new e-spec we get something new instead. 

 

 

I really hope the ranger gets some love from anet.

 

the theme of the expansion seems to be the loss of a profession defining element. The necro lost its 2nd life, the mesmer its clones and the guardian its divinity. It would make sense for the ranger to lose its pet and to counter it by making the spirits stronger.

 

What speaks against this theory is that spirits are already there and can't be reintroduced.

Edited August 19, 2021 by makagoto.1204

[Vindold.1057]

You know what would be cool? Shapeshifter. Shapeshifter(north theme) which can be useful at wvw zerg fights.

Changing forms on the fly...jump into fatty werebear for tankiness and cc, werewolf for dps\mobility etc, but I'm dreaming...it'll probably be something cantha themed with a shield.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Nerthus.3592

[Crackmonster.2790]

On 8/3/2021 at 10:39 PM, Ehecatl.9172 said:

Speaking of nature magic though, I am personally hoping for scepter and another elite spec that emphasizes the nature magic of the ranger but focuses more on offensive casting rather than healing like the druid.

Gotta say this just makes me so moist to think about. I imagine myself with Xiuquatl and bring yet another pet into the game while shooting green pew pew§!
 

On 8/19/2021 at 4:05 PM, Nerthus.3592 said:

You know what would be cool? Shapeshifter. Shapeshifter(north theme) which can be useful at wvw zerg fights.

Changing forms on the fly...jump into fatty werebear for tankiness and cc, werewolf for dps\mobility etc, but I'm dreaming...it'll probably be something cantha themed with a shield.

Pet completely replaced to make way for new f1-4 skills, Animal forms. Or just somehow transform skills in utility.

It total that makes 3 solid ideas for ranger elite speccs:
  - Offensive nature magic
  - Shapeshifting to animal forms
  - Pet focused Specc

I was so wet for the Offensive magic idea, but the more i think about it the more i want so bad that the new specc has shield(coz cool as kitten) + animal shapeshifting to explain the animal face in the picture.

But, i think it will be shield + pet focused.

My new ranger is so cool, i went elven armor style. Green, Gold, Silver plate looking armor with elf-ish designs. Straight out of lotr.

I am so not a fan of hammer at all, it's the weapon of  a brute, the ranger is refined and elegant using blades and precision more - i would feel so weird swinging a huge thumber around like i turned into an ogre.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Crackmonster.2790

[Lazze.9870]

21 hours ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

I am so not a fan of hammer at all, it's the weapon of  a brute, the ranger is refined and elegant using blades and precision more - i would feel so weird swinging a huge thumber around like i turned into an ogre.

 

While I agree that ranger is more refined and elegant than it is "brutish", we literally maul people with the force of a bear using greatsword and the concept of a beastmaster isn't exactly "refined and elegant" either. There are ways to make hammer work in a more elegant way than on warrior.

 

Hammer is also one of the weapons that can help ranger break into wvw roles it currently doesn't have (granted the mechanic and utilities are good enough), shield much less so. From an objective standpoint, it is the gamemode ranger suffers the most in.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[InsaneQR.7412]

Tbh i would love to see some nice survivability, AoE, Barrier and maybe even roots.

I hope for a plant themed hammer, paired with some concecrations for more Area buffs, CC and damage.

 

I mostly hope they dont kitten up the mechanic or th traits. Those thinsg are inherently coupled with the spec and cannot be chosen.

[Crackmonster.2790]

7 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

While I agree that ranger is more refined and elegant than it is "brutish", we literally maul people with the force of a bear using greatsword and the concept of a beastmaster isn't exactly "refine and elegant" either. There are ways to make hammer work in a more elegant way than on warrior.

 

Hammer is also one of the weapons that can help ranger break into wvw roles it currently doesn't have (granted the mechanic and utilities are good enough), shield much less so. From an objective standpoint, it is the gamemode ranger suffers the most in.

Hammer goes against everything ranger stands for - its crushing, attack first ask question later its the opposite of nurturing and in balance with nature - its the weapon of the one who is in disrespect of things around them. How many elves did you ever see running around with a hammer smashing up stuff? Imagine aragorn with a hammer? Imagine a druid with a hammer smash style? Nah, tis not fit, i hope it not get. Scepter, shield makes more sense, nimble rangers far stride.

Whatever niche it is you think hammer should fill, can always be filled by another weapon - i mean just the fact that they turned hammer into a lang range weapons for many classes should show you just how hard any weapon can be bent into whatever is needed.

[Lazze.9870]

51 minutes ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

Hammer goes against everything ranger stands for - its crushing, attack first ask question later its the opposite of nurturing and in balance with nature - its the weapon of the one who is in disrespect of things around them. How many elves did you ever see running around with a hammer smashing up stuff? Imagine aragorn with a hammer? Imagine a druid with a hammer smash style? Nah, tis not fit, i hope it not get. Scepter, shield makes more sense, nimble rangers far stride.

 

It goes against SOME of the archtypes which Anet's ranger is based on. But it also makes very much sense for the different archtypes within the "ranger spectrum" that this elite spec can lean into. Warden, beastmaster etc.

 

Aragorn is a ranger, druid is a druid. Whatever this elite spec is won't be any of those, it will be a derivative of the core class. An off-hand sword ranger might be a strider.

 

And no, not every niche can be filled by any weapon. An off-hand weapon like shield contributes nothing to a zerg build because, even if the shield itself was good, it locks ranger in to two limited mainhand options.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Crackmonster.2790]

18 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

No, it doesn't. On the contrary it makes very much sense for the different archtypes within the "ranger spectrum" that this elite spec can lean into. Warden, beastmaster etc.

 

Aragorn is a ranger, druid is a druid. Whatever this elite spec is won't be any of those, it will be a derivative of the core class. An off-hand sword ranger might be a strider.

 

And no, not every niche can be filled by any weapon. An off-hand weapon like shield contributes nothing to a zerg build because, even if the shield itself was good, it locks ranger in to two limited mainhand options.

"no because no"
"neither of things you said are exactly ranger but lets forget the sum"

I'm not convinced by your arguments, and the last one is plain incorrect/misdirecting.

However, in the end it doesn't matter, ive said why i think hammer is not a fit to nature but in defiance of natural balance and just crushing and destroying with no regard and given you a reference frame for why this is a time-true perspective and archtypes through time have reflected it. Others have said they want hammer, coz.. HAMMER. Just like others said "guns for ranger", because they think ranger = some kind of hunter specialized in killing the animals of nature for sport, which were similarly pointed out to be against nature in concept.

You never greet the animals and plants of nature with a hammer, that's just brutish and uncaring for what you destroy with such a blunt tool.

I rest my case, we all gotta want what we gotta want.

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Crackmonster.2790

[Lazze.9870]

On 8/30/2021 at 11:10 PM, Crackmonster.2790 said:

"no because no"
"neither of things you said are exactly druid but lets forget the sum"

 

I mean, it clearly is when you conviently ignore the argument.

 

Elves? That's a race, a culture. It's irrelevant. I don't have to imagine druid with a hammer because druid got a staff, not a hammer. Which makes sense. Hammer can make sense for other elite specs. It depends on the spec and what they do with the hammer.

 

On 8/30/2021 at 11:10 PM, Crackmonster.2790 said:

I'm not convinced by your arguments, and the last one is plain incorrect/misdirecting.

 

Sword and mainhand axe don't give ranger much to work with in wvw zergs, and that's what you're stuck with when given an off-hand. Nothing incorrect about it, that's FACT. Hammer is the only two-handed weapon left other than rifle until they add new ones, if ever.

 

On 8/30/2021 at 11:10 PM, Crackmonster.2790 said:

Just like others said guns for ranger which were similarly pointed out to be against nature in concept.

 

Rifle is against the concept on a thematic level, hammer is only somewhat against it if you're hung up with the idea that every ranger weapon has to be "elegant" in its execution and that the hammer itself will be all about boinking people in the head. Mauling foes with a big sword is not particularly elegant.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Psycoprophet.8107]

23 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

While I agree that ranger is more refined and elegant than it is "brutish", we literally maul people with the force of a bear using greatsword and the concept of a beastmaster isn't exactly "refined and elegant" either. There are ways to make hammer work in a more elegant way than on warrior.

 

Hammer is also one of the weapons that can help ranger break into wvw roles it currently doesn't have (granted the mechanic and utilities are good enough), shield much less so. From an objective standpoint, it is the gamemode ranger suffers the most in.

???? What? A survivalist/nature themed warrior isn't brutish and is refined? There fast, sturdy and precise due to being conditioned from living/surviving in nature, a brutal unforgiving environment. Even a warrior would prob live a more refined, less brutal lifestyle than a ranger.

Being virtuous, admirable as rangers are, refined they arnt.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Xanadrine.4352]

The description of ranger from the forum title itself. Somehow lugging a big ole hammer around just dont seem to fit the concept. I have a feeling and i hope im right, that anet planted those loot reveals in order to throw us off.

Ranger

Explorers and allies of nature accompanied by their loyal pets. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Ehecatl.9172]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:20 PM, Crackmonster.2790 said:

Imagine a druid with a hammer smash style?

 

Well I mean... My tauren druid in World of Warcraft wielded a warhammer and it still felt perfectly druidic. He used it to crush the enemies of nature before using his magic to heal the harm they did to the land.

 

I've also played a Lizardfolk druid with a cudgel and a half-orc druid with a battleaxe in DnD before. Not exactly hammers but thematically similar.

 

For that matter this is my ranger currently...

 

His weapon choice isn't exactly elegant.

[Crackmonster.2790]

18 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

???? What? A survivalist/nature themed warrior isn't brutish and is refined? There fast, sturdy and precise due to being conditioned from living/surviving in nature, a brutal unforgiving environment. Even a warrior would prob live a more refined, less brutal lifestyle than a ranger.

Being virtuous, admirable as rangers are, refined they arnt.

When you live in nature you learn to be nimble, a skill generally lost to the average person who lives just among humans. Become gentle, light of step and attuned to nature - thereby respecting the plants/insects you walk on as you travel and to not scare every animal away by your brute behaviour. A hammer or club is the ultimate unpresice tool, smashing up the whole area destroying much more than you need to and usually used by the more primitive minded. When you kill an animal for food you dont smash it up with a hammer. That's why knives and bows. You might use one for crushing stones, or a tiny one for smashing nuts - in that case they are used because their attributes are exactly required.

However it's more of an ideal archetype, in reality also tribes have been using clubs for warfare against other humans since forever as one of the most basic and destructive weapons. I do remember having a native american spiked club in the house growing up, and also seen african versions and  the OG cavemen fantasies are there too. However these are still considered primitive approaches, where rangers might be considered higher akin to elves, an archetype that in for example lotr and many other well thought lores leans heavy into being more attuned, nimble, and using presise weapons like bows and blades in respect of nature. Also  hammers are not good for travelling the land. Too heavy and unbalanced.

But hey it seems archetypes cave too for desires of playstyles long lost. And i guess ill just imagine myself as a primitive tribalist trying to smash up stuff with ma club. They say the bunny thumber is fun, so i must trust.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Crackmonster.2790

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

1 hour ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

When you live in nature you learn to be nimble, a skill generally lost to the average person who lives just among humans. Become gentle, light of step and attuned to nature - thereby respecting the plants/insects you walk on as you travel and to not scare every animal away by your brute behaviour.

The funny part in all of that is that nothing in nature works like described in here. "Natural" order does not predict any respect to plants, insects, only survival of the fittest. Everything is a food for something and such is a circle of life.

But there is some difference in how human works when living in the wild, compared to living in our big cities - but it boils down to not attracting stronger predators to your presence, not to respect some insects.

1 hour ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

When you kill an animal for food you dont smash it up with a hammer.

Because hammer is really inefficient at trying to get any wild animal killed, and for those small enough to be quickly killed by one, it would splosh your meal into inedible mix of everything that animal was.

1 hour ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

That's why knives and bows.

Spears and bows - using knife for hunting is an easy way to become the prey..... (knife-like tool is only needed to process the carcass AFTER you kill your future dinner)

And the most ironic part of all of this is that following your logic there rangers shouldn't use swords either - after all, digging out and refining metals to be forged, is epitomy of industrialism, not natural order of things. (Also swords are weapons specifically made to fight other humans, they are really crap at trying to hunt)

[Lazze.9870]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:28 PM, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

???? What? A survivalist/nature themed warrior isn't brutish and is refined?

 

Our sword, off-hand dagger and greatsword skills are much more "refined and elegant" (not my words, mind you, but if you're gonna compare them on a scale I agree at least to an extent) and less brutish than the warrior equivalent (minus Maul).

 

We were talking about how ranger uses its weapons, not how it behaves in general.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Crackmonster.2790]

5 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

The funny part in all of that is that nothing in nature works like described in here. "Natural" order does not predict any respect to plants, insects, only survival of the fittest. Everything is a food for something and such is a circle of life.

But there is some difference in how human works when living in the wild, compared to living in our big cities - but it boils down to not attracting stronger predators to your presence, not to respect some insects.

Because hammer is really inefficient at trying to get any wild animal killed, and for those small enough to be quickly killed by one, it would splosh your meal into inedible mix of everything that animal was.

Spears and bows - using knife for hunting is an easy way to become the prey..... (knife-like tool is only needed to process the carcass AFTER you kill your future dinner)

And the most ironic part of all of this is that following your logic there rangers shouldn't use swords either - after all, digging out and refining metals to be forged, is epitomy of industrialism, not natural order of things. (Also swords are weapons specifically made to fight other humans, they are really crap at trying to hunt)

You are reaching mate, the distinction is sword is precise and higher combat form like being one with the wind, hence why they are often the main weapon applied to elves - they are high form incarnate, where a hammer is primal and very basic to the point of being the preferred weapon of brutes. If you had to use your blurred out definitions we could say anything man created is "industrial" and as such against nature. The hammer is for the one not attuned to specifics and respectful of what he attacks, it's a weapon of ruthless area destruction, compared to the precision of judgement that comes from the blade of a sword. You are blurring out the definitions so far you can't see the natural attunements and archetypes, going by your defintion again now elves are against nature because they use swords.

You are right about spears/dagger though, i was thinking in killing off animals with the throat cut a knife is a preferred tool, as well as when dealing with plants. Sometimes i forget to explain myself fully.

Oh did i talked about elves? Guess what it's the the perspective relative to the particular argument, i do hope you can see beyond that instead of the predicted strawman "ranger is not elf".

Edited September 1, 2021 by Crackmonster.2790

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

1 hour ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

You are reaching mate, the distinction is sword is precise and higher combat form like being one with the wind,

erm, no. Sword is sword. it's a hunk of metal that got formed into a shape that form particular function. And for big chunk of history and most sword types that particular function was "Self-defence"/"side arm". And greatswords happened to be swords large enough to find a role alongside primary battlefield weapons - polearms. Some swords are about precision, some are more of a brute force. None of hem are being about "one with the wind"

Have you seen maybe pre-rework ranger sword autoattack chain? it was slash, KICK (here goes finese), LEAP (here goes finese again).

and of course signature ranger GS skill: maul. such finese indeed. what else you have there? AA chain of slashes (no mention on precision of those) raven assisted leap (that finese!) static block that chains into kick, and hilt bash. Where is that finese, where is that wind.

 

1 hour ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

where a hammer is primal and very basic to the point of being the preferred weapon of brutes.

And so is Axe, and yet we can dual wield them - like a proper barbarian! 

1 hour ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

You are blurring out the definitions so far you can't see the natural attunements and archetypes,

No, I was just applying your own logic to already existing ranger weapons.

1 hour ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

i was thinking in killing off animals with the throat cut a knife is a preferred tool,

when it comes to killing animals, throat cut is not only suicidal in most cases, but also extremely inefficient, and definitelly not an experience you want to put animal through if you "respect" it.

1 hour ago, Crackmonster.2790 said:

Oh did i talked about elves? Guess what it's the the perspective relative to the particular argument, i do hope you can see beyond that instead of the predicted strawman "ranger is not elf".

Very flawed perspective considering that the way ranger in gw2 uses swords (including greatswords) is very un-eflish. Very brutish when compared to what elves are usually portrayed to be using swords like.

[Lazze.9870]

15 minutes ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

KICK (here goes finese), LEAP

 

Those can be done in an "elegant" way. The evades on GS and sword can also lean towards being "elegant", so can the off-hand dagger skills. The old GS AA chain ended with an evasive swing, I'd say that's kind of elegant. Elegant might not be the best word to describe it, but I wouldn't call it all brutish.

 

I would say ranger has a fine mix of more graceful martial arts/acrobatics and brutish attacks. Maul is the perfect example of the latter. It depends on what part of the archtype you lean into. Either way, it's not an argument against hammer being a good fit.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Ehecatl.9172]

There is definitely more to the nature wanderer theme than elves, which I think is the crux of the argument. Crackmonster seems to have a very narrow view of ranger that doesn't account for non-finesse approaches to the nature warrior motif.

 

I've already pointed toward my own ranger. A max height charr wielding a fantasy version of the macuahuitl, one of the most brutal melee weapons devised in history. It is a large, wooden club with a serrated edge and, in this particular case, thick metal spikes.

 

It isn't a weapon he would hunt with, but it IS a weapon he'd use to rip into his enemies with the spikes and serrated edges mimicking the fangs and teeth of the wild animals he venerates. Ranger greatsword is evasive, but I'd never call it an elegant weapon. It is fast, powerful, and mauls the enemy to death like a great bear or tiger coming down on its prey.

 

Using weapons to mimic the killing strategies of venerated animals is a perfectly acceptable flavor of ranger that differentiates from the "graceful elegance" of the elven fantasy.

 

Given that two of the three most prolific ranger races in GW2 are charr (giant, horned felines with claws the length of a person's forearm) and norn (huge, hulking giants with unmatched physical strength and hardiness) I think it is safe to say that not all rangers are meant to be quick, dexterous, and elegant. That falls in line with Sylvari, but doesn't suit charr or norn as well. For them picking up a huge greatsword and imitating their preferred predator or grabbing a warhammer and reminding their foes what an avalanche or falling tree feels like is perfectly naturey.

[AkantorCZ.8952]

I've been playing vanila ranger since forever because I don't like current elite specs. The druid basically turned ranger into something else and the soulbeast is a concept of devouring your pet.

For once I'd like to see elite spec that actually enhances rangers core ability. Having single stronger and more interactive pet seems like the way to go. If that is the case a shield makes the most sense to me. You know to focus on keeping you and your pet alive.

 

It would also be super cool have some kind of mount interaction with your pet. But I should probably lower my expectations. 🙂

Edited September 2, 2021 by AkantorCZ.8952

[Khenzy.9348]

An elite specialization is a deviation from the orginal concept or the core class, you're not supposed to be a pure ranger anymore conceptually speaking. You are cloistered in the primary concept or possible narrow (and personal) idea of what a ranger is, is not or is supposed to be, and not in what can be beyond its core and basic principle. Being a little bit more brutish or being closer in its communion with animal nature, or just embracing its own primal instincs... I think, as some of you very well said, all of that and more is within reason of what a ranger can be.

I remind you rangers use axes that are considered sharp but also blunt weapons. If this ranger is supposed to specialize in something else, deciding to pick up a hammer to do the job is not unreasonable at all. There will also be a lore reason behind it, let's just wait for that one.

 

 

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

17 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Those can be done in an "elegant" way. The evades on GS and sword can also lean towards being "elegant", so can the off-hand dagger skills.

"can" - is a good word, too bad the animation team didn't get the request to make them so.

17 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

The old GS AA chain ended with an evasive swing, I'd say that's kind of elegan

Animation wise, at least on humans it was huge swing with rotation of whole body, that happened to have "evade" effect attached on it. no different from a brute trying to gain more force into the strike by exploiting momentum. Btw, animation didn't change, they just removed evade from the skill and replaced it with "gain endurance"

17 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

I would say ranger has a fine mix of more graceful martial arts/acrobatics and brutish attacks. Maul is the perfect example of the latter. It depends on what part of the archtype you lean into. Either way, it's not an argument against hammer being a good fit.

I would say that if you only look at descriptions of the skill I could see where the perception of elegance would come from. Issue is that none of that potential for elegance was translated into actuall animations. Which is why I am arguing against trying to paint rangers as sime elegant elf equivalent in GW2.

And on a note - I am not trying to argue that ranger should get hammer and that it would be best decision ever, or anything - I am just pointing out that arguments against it are not exactly fitting to the ranger I know and have playedfor those nearly 9 years 😉

10 hours ago, AkantorCZ.8952 said:

I've been playing vanila ranger since forever because I don't like current elite specs. 

and the intent of Especs design was that one should be perfectly able to do just that if they wanted 🙂

their whole point is to provide different experience from the core class, that leans towards something else, yet still fit within family of themes that belongs to the core class.

Now from how well that is executed on balancing standpoint is a different case all together ^-^'