If you want players to do strikes, make them more accessible.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Some ppl here are flying off the handle here...

There is no raids AND strikes.

The two are wholly different beasts. I can totally get you need long wait times and spend a lot of time on a raid.
But don't put it in the same context as strikes which take rougly 15 mins to do per strike and asides some big outliers don't require waiting for hours on end to get a group. Hell when i play I often create strike squad myself and ppl join relatively fast..

Edited July 29, 2021 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Katary.7096]

18 hours ago, zellurs.8601 said:

I like the idea of strike missions, but the way they're currently implemented is really bad. I was surprised to see strike missions listed as a feature of EoD. As far as I was concerned, it was dead content that I did once for the cheevo, and something a group of dedicated players could come back to in order to farm skins.

If someone had told me prior to the livestream that EoD would feature new instanced group content, my guess would have been 2 or 3 new fractals or a new system similar to DRMs, since both of those use a smaller group size and have more difficulty options than Strike Missions.

 

As far as your suggestions are concerned: There were forum discussions on these topics in the past and the whole thing is pretty much solved by now. TL;DR version is this: Doesn't work. Auto grouping features need fixed roles, which gw2 struggles with. Making the content so easy that roles are obsolete means that you have just made open world content, which functions poorly as an introduction/ stepping stone to anything.

Having a party leader means that they can use their power to abuse the group, not having a leader can make it difficult to remove abusive players from a group.

A reward system that is useful (and remains useful) for anyone basically means gold, or something that can be turned into gold reliably. If it is enough gold, players will come.

[Xanadrine.4352]

The thing about strikes is you have to play with other people to do them. They really are quick and nothing like a raid people claim. There is no difficulty curve, they are fast and easy.  Ask in your guild to get a group for strikes you dont need a raid group 5 people is all. Heck really good players can prob duo it.  They don't need a nerf, they can be put in LFG already but you should prob go with your guild. A pug group can be a disaster or a blessing its a coin toss.

[shonefob.7091]

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Oh I fully agree. I'm just pointing out that the claim that automated matchmaking would work is flawed since it already is in the game.

 

Now we could discuss how to improve the system, which is an entire other argument because now we are admitting that the current implementation has failed (due to whatever reasons) or at the very least has severe limitations.

 

1. roles, as mentioned by others, are a lot more difficult to implement in GW2 and a matchmaker. It would require drastic changes to class design OR shifting a ton of responsibility onto players again. Say the matchmaker works as follows:

- Players need to sign up as a specific role, let's go with tank, support and dps. The matchmaker now creates a squad comprised of X tanks, X supports and X dps. That can work IF the players who sign up are on reliable classes able to full-fill the role AND are able to do the fight. Potential for toxicity: 200,000%

 

2. global sign up would be a benefit yes, but would work against hub areas which are focused to that content. There is a reason why the raid aerodrome is the global access to raids. Similar minded players with similar goals congregate in 1 spot. This would have to be carefully monitored to see how it affects player behavior.

 

and now we are knee deep in figuring out how to make a far more complex system work and work within the game as simply stating: give us auto matchmaking, and didn't even go into details which detriments this might have (hello afk players, hello trolls, hello leavers, etc.)

I mean addressing the toxicity could just as easily say im a tank in LFG and join a group while not being geared for it.  The scenario all ends the same. 

And I dont believe keeping the aerodrome populated is as important as keeping the actual game mode populated.  It may even benefit future content as if you have someone que as tank you could easily get this to be the new agro mechanic. 

Also as I said this system could be integrated into fractals/raids/and dungeons.  Focusing most on dungeons it may bring new life into this mode.  Considering PVP has a matchmaking system, which is arguably the most difficult area the game has I dont see why this couldnt be brought somewhere else. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by shonefob.7091

[Telgum.6071]

Seems like half of the strikes not requiring you to even press the dodge key isn't accessible enough

[Cyninja.2954]

24 minutes ago, shonefob.7091 said:

I mean addressing the toxicity could just as easily say im a tank in LFG and join a group while not being geared for it.  The scenario all ends the same. 

 

Which would be only possible with inexperienced squad leads because it is unlikely that a semi experienced squad lead would be fooled by a player on an incorrect class.

 

The same applies to supports and boons and utility. It's difficult to pretend you can give might, fury, quickness and alacrity on classes which do not have access to them.

 

24 minutes ago, shonefob.7091 said:

And I dont believe keeping the aerodrome populated is as important as keeping the actual game mode populated.  It may even benefit future content as if you have someone que as tank you could easily get this to be the new agro mechanic. 

Also as I said this system could be integrated into fractals/raids/and dungeons.  Focusing most on dungeons it may bring new life into this mode.  Considering PVP has a matchmaking system, which is arguably the most difficult area the game has I dont see why this couldnt be brought somewhere else. 

 

Have you seen what matchmaking has done to other games? Have you run instanced content in those games? 0 interaction, 0 chatting, 0 loyalty to the group (aka players just leave when they feel like it).

 

You are populating a game mode at the cost of player socialization. Which can have a net positive effect. It is not guaranteed though. Sometimes keeping some required interaction in a game has a benefit. The LFG system has worked for years in this game.

[Krzysztof.5973]

Making an LFG with no requirements for a fullclear or daily strike run during prime time takes not time at all. All you're asking right now is to remove player interaction and put instance matching in place. Then there is the part where support role alone in this game is more nuanced than just to bring healing to the table. 

[Khisanth.2948]

6 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I assume the people who say Strikes are dead or takes forever to find group usually try to do them from 2:00 a.m to 7:00 a.m?

That is literally everyone because somewhere in the world it is between 2am and 7am ...

 

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

- Players need to sign up as a specific role, let's go with tank, support and dps. The matchmaker now creates a squad comprised of X tanks, X supports and X dps. That can work IF the players who sign up are on reliable classes able to full-fill the role AND are able to do the fight. Potential for toxicity: 200,000%

Counterpoint: if you are going to use that option you should know what you are signing up for. Of course I am expecting reasonable and intelligent people which may be the complete opposite of reality. Especially since even with the current system there are already people who join groups expecting to be carried or get carried but believe they are the MVP of the group.

 

2 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

2. global sign up would be a benefit yes, but would work against hub areas which are focused to that content. There is a reason why the raid aerodrome is the global access to raids. Similar minded players with similar goals congregate in 1 spot. This would have to be carefully monitored to see how it affects player behavior.

Hub is pretty much irrelevant. If I am going to do anything in there right now I spend most of my time staring at the LFG window anyway.

 

I definitely foresee an increase in the number of "I'll be there as soon as I am done with what I am doing right now ....30 minutes later ... I am almost done! ... another 30 minutes later ...a very pissed off group, group kicks this person, person comes to forum crying about toxic elitists"

 

 

[Naomi Nightfisher.4138]

The issue here is simple.

 

None of you want to be a member of a guild.

 

You want to queue in a raid finder, and be given people to play with.

 

Guild Wars lets you be in FIVE guilds at a time.

 

Want to find a strike?

 

Try this.

 

"Hey guildies who I know and am an active part of your community, Who wants to do a strike?"

<9 people you know say yes>

<You do a strike>

 

The problem isnt that GW2 doesnt facilitate being a loner, its that you all are antisocial AF.

 

:)

[Astralporing.1957]

So, i guess only guilds with players willing to do strikes are social to you?

[radda.8920]

on the contrary, you have to make them much harder, the strikes are boring, one rush = 20/30 minutes so the bosses are amazingly easy 

HM players will only have strikes to find long-term occupation so if there is no challenge, no interest.

[Firebeard.1746]

The only issue I see for new players is getting the appropriate gear. Also if they don't have the right gear, they're liability in terms of getting the top gold tier reward, which is usually the only tier worth it unless it's a daily & contributes to weekly chest.

The biggest issue with strikes is reward vs. cost. It just rewards ascended gear -> you can get more gold climbing fractals with the same result of ascended gear. I actually did enjoy them but have discontinued once I realized I don't have infinite time and they didn't contribute to my legendary progression as much as I'd like.

On paper they give massive gold, but that relies on Eitrite ingot conversions and the market is pretty saturated, once everyone decides to do that, you get undercut and just end up with a TP fee  & resource cost lost (and this happens often enough). Its the same issue as prismaticite crystals but at least you can vend Eitrite.

I also feel like they were intentionally drawn out. Like CW always requiring 15 minutes is a bit bizarre when this community has a speedrun addiction. I have a similar complaint with Shiverpeaks as well -> The JP lengthens the encounter and often people won't join until the beacon is up and advertised in LFG. I think encounter length is an issue with the newer fractals as well. They feel ALOT longer.

That said, when i cared about strikes, I didn't struggle finding a group, ever. Though I will say that maybe more players have caught on as much as I have and they don't see them as rewarding and your observations are totally accurate. If they want players back in strikes, they need to advertise the new system and explain how any progress we make now converts into the new system. At the end of the day, they looked like abandoned IB saga content with not well thought out rewards.

Also just want to say as a general issue, anet is not always cognizant of trying to reward players at scale. IMO, they should be rewarding players who run in squads more than solo players as that's adding to the social aspects of their MMO, and it should scale against squad size and difficulty of the content.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Firebeard.1746

[Sobx.1758]

53 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

So, i guess only guilds with players willing to do strikes are social to you?

You never needed guilds to do content like strikes or raids in the first place, so it's irrelevant if someone thinks only those guilds are social or not. The whole base claim is just false regardless of the answer to your question.

[Infusion.7149]

You don't need a guild to do strikes. There is a public option but people generally would rather group up on LFG.

The only boss strike that is going to require actual healing is Boneskinner unless you try to do it properly. Cold War and Forging Steel are prolonged so people don't do them often.

Raids have a far larger issue with respect to people buying/selling instances. Strikes have no such issue and are quite similar to fractals in that sense.

P.S. if you think strikes are bad profit-wise you aren't making use of the currency properly.

[Kameko.8314]

Why do strikes? 
It is a grind for some gear and crystals… get weekly chest that CAN (probably that sub .1% drop rate) get a precursor. And brainless other than bone skinner… which is pretty brainless the, but many people can’t do basic mechanics or dodge. And whisper which is just a group hoping they don’t have the person running in circles and playing jump rope with spikes. 
you get “extra” chests for beating the boss fast which = 1 more unid maybe? 
basically the loot is garbage like lot of the rest of the game. If you have 10 friends and want content, strikes probably wouldn’t be the thing to go do imho. It would better be served in raids. Because they are actually more challenging, can improve your play, and be more creative . (I.E. my guild did Q2 with 9 pylons and 1 tank.) no go to whispers or bone skinner and yah not much creativity in the bosses. 
Anet said strikes would be like a stepping stone into raids… buuuut, now they realized no one can lose to raids, people are maybe happier? Because like in most content now… nothing can fail. (If you are somewhat prepared before the event). What fun is winning 100% of the time. And lot of strikes is that. Raids? Not so much . Things go wrong from time to time and can cause incidental accidents and cause some laughter. But strikes? 100% easy clear . Or 100% frustration of being in a group that cannot get basic things done (again my opinion). So is it really a stepping stone into future raids? Sadly I dunno.

Loot is the best thing about bosses. Getting that juicy reward for hard work. And this game to be honest. Is kitten at it. .0000001% infusion drop. 5-10% maybe for ascended. And 90% unid or worthless exotic. And now even a bankful of ascended is meaningless to a veteran with legendary. 
so this is why I don’t do strikes.

1. No challenge. 
2. no meaningful reward.

 

And next strike that goes out what you going to do to make it “replayable” put a grind fest to a certain skin collection? Lazy and probable. Just like the runic set (I believe it was). This is the answer for everything and is boring. Grind this for this new set. Keep Grinding for a less than .00001% chance infusion that you may win the lottery. That’s all it has been and was hoping for a change in end of dragons. I hope it comes .

[Asum.4960]

This is not an accessibility problem, but an average skill level problem. 

 

You can easily make builds in GW2 that either just auto attack or occasionally press one or two buttons to do around 15-20k DPS (with high end builds and play reaching 35-40k DPS), yet the average GW2 (OW) player does around 3-6k DPS. 

 

That's the reason things like the public auto que for Strikes was dead on arrival and why such systems can't work in GW2, why everything has to go through LFG, and why group gating exists.

As long as the vast majority of OW and Story mobs can be killed with a single button press on a reasonably geared and build char, and that's the level the majority of players then is used to and plays at, It's simply not possible to create remotely "challenging" group content that anyone can just hop in without organisation, checks or carries. 

 

Strikes hardly could be any more accessible. They do not require tanking or boss movement/placement, they don't have complex mechanics, and most of them don't even require a support. Even one of the most "notorious" strikes consists of pretty much just side stepping a single telegraphed mechanic by circling the boss with the group.

Over half of them, I'm pretty certain, you could just load in 10 decently geared and build bots set to only target and autoattack with Traits like Invigorating Precision, Dance of Death or Parasitic Contagion etc. and watch them comfortably beat them - if actual players using skills and moving around and dodging then can't, the issue isn't accessibility, it's lack of tutorialization and skill checks encouraging improvement in the rest of the game to a point where players making groups (or joining a que system) could expect a baseline of competency with the game from other players.

[Veka.8710]

Elitist also drive people away from strikes. Instead of helping new players they just want to speed clear everything and when it doesn't go their way they start going off on people, which in turn drives away new players, same goes for raids.

 

New players should also do some research sometimes too, but hey when they don't, don't yell at them.

[Andovar Edoras.2143]

They simply need to offer better rewards and people will swarm to it. Bad reward = no motivation.

[Raknar.4735]

32 minutes ago, Andovar Edoras.2143 said:

They simply need to offer better rewards and people will swarm to it. Bad reward = no motivation.

Not even a unique legendary armour with custom transformation effects and huge QoL that was in development for ages was enough to bring a majority into 10 man instanced content. It was merely enough to bring some people in that abruptly quit raiding after getting their reward, no longitivity.

Rewards don‘t turn content into fun content, the content itself must be fun from the start.

[Dante.1763]

7 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Not even a unique legendary armour with custom transformation effects and huge QoL that was in development for ages was enough to bring a majority into 10 man instanced content. It was merely enough to bring some people in that abruptly quit raiding after getting their reward, no longitivity.

Rewards don‘t turn content into fun content, the content itself must be fun from the start.

And accessable to boot.

[Fuchslein.8639]

9 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Not even a unique legendary armour with custom transformation effects and huge QoL that was in development for ages was enough to bring a majority into 10 man instanced content. It was merely enough to bring some people in that abruptly quit raiding after getting their reward, no longitivity.

Rewards don‘t turn content into fun content, the content itself must be fun from the start.

 

Well, raids can be hard for the average casual. But strikes are a joke. But at the same time ... you can read again and again how much problems the people have with Whisper and the other thing there (which I really do not understand).

I doubt that GW2 is made for such content at all. People want to grind, but brain-afk and feel good when they can kill a mob with autoattack.

 

It is true that many "elitist" become impatient and exceptions also become sometimes offensive (instant block from me, for such peeps). But that goes also in the other direction that "casuals" often do not want to learn and think if something goes wrong, of course, the game or the other is to blame.

Know myself such an exemplar who considers himself the greatest and would like to run raids with us, but as soon as you tell him that he should go to the golem and adjust his eq, he goes completely silent ^^.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Fuchslein.8639

[Dante.1763]

2 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

Well, raids can be hard for the average casual. But strikes are a joke. But at the same time ... you can read again and again how much problems the people have with Whisper and the other thing there (which I really do not understand).

I doubt that GW2 is made for such content at all. People want to grind, but brain-afk and feel good when they can kill a mob with autoattack.

 

It is true that many "elitist" become impatient and exceptions also become sometimes offensive (instant block from me, for such peeps). But that goes also in the other direction that "casuals" often do not want to learn and think if something goes wrong, of course, the game or the other is to blame.

Know myself such an exemplar who considers himself the greatest and would like to run raids with us, but as soon as you tell him that he should go to the golem and adjust his eq, he goes completely silent ^^.

Fairly easy to do for instanced content. Add multiple difficulty levels. 3 or 4 per strike/wing.

 

Easy/Normal/Hard/Challenge.

 

For changes:

 

Easy would have 3/4 of normal HP, but do full damage.

 

normal would be exactly as is, challange motes can be done in normal or harder only.

 

Hard would be 1.25x HP and 1.25x damage.

 

Challange would be 1.5x HP and 1.5x Damage.

 

Timers would stay the same for all.

 

For rewards:

 

At easy all content would have current base rewards available,  but earned a slower rate.(1 li per boss killed still guranteed).

 

Normal would have normal drop rates for everything.

 

Hard would award more drops

 

And Challange would be a guranteed ascended drop + normal drop chances.

 

Hard and Challange would have a repeatable achievement added that gave more gold for x bosses slain in those modes.

 

Boom. ANET could do it way better or make it interesting.

[SunTzu.4513]

5 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

This is not an accessibility problem, but an average skill level problem. 

So much this! Imagine they implement an auto queu. Then you join the party and get matched with two bearbow ranger, standing out of boon range. Next is your friendly minion necro just casualy auto attacking with staff 1 all the time. Or an full soldier bow Dragonhunter. And don't start to think how many people seems not to know what this strange second bar is under some mobs.

 

I was used to run open LFG squats when strikes started every day. Got burned out really fast from the share madness of strange gameplay i saw while doing this. People literally don't wanted to stay close to each other so i can carry as heal scourge because they wanted to fullfill their ranged spec fantasys... Got even called out as an elitist for explaining mechniks.

[Fuchslein.8639]

50 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Fairly easy to do for instanced content. Add multiple difficulty levels. 3 or 4 per strike/wing.

 

Easy/Normal/Hard/Challenge.

 

For changes:

 

Easy would have 3/4 of normal HP, but do full damage.

 

normal would be exactly as is, challange motes can be done in normal or harder only.

 

Hard would be 1.25x HP and 1.25x damage.

 

Challange would be 1.5x HP and 1.5x Damage.

 

Timers would stay the same for all.

 

For rewards:

 

At easy all content would have current base rewards available,  but earned a slower rate.(1 li per boss killed still guranteed).

 

Normal would have normal drop rates for everything.

 

Hard would award more drops

 

And Challange would be a guranteed ascended drop + normal drop chances.

 

Hard and Challange would have a repeatable achievement added that gave more gold for x bosses slain in those modes.

 

Boom. ANET could do it way better or make it interesting.

 

I was confused from the beginning why there was only one mode for raids. For everything before there were always different modes. Even for dungeons there is the story mode that you can easily do alone, without much effort or learning.

However, I am not a fan of the opinion that easy-mode give out LI's. Then you would have to customize a lot of things, which would be a little unfair for people like me who are working on the Legy armor and, let's say anet would really implement something like that now (just imagine, i know its unrealistic) and suddenly I need more LIs. Even if normal mode would then get double LI's, that would only be  doppelt gemoppelt (as we say in Germany)/unnecessary addition.

 

Easy mode should be there to learn. But the real rewards should still remain in Normal mode so that it is worth working it's way up. Like fractals do, low effort, low rewards.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Veka.8710 said:

Elitist also drive people away from strikes. Instead of helping new players they just want to speed clear everything and when it doesn't go their way they start going off on people, which in turn drives away new players, same goes for raids.

 

New players should also do some research sometimes too, but hey when they don't, don't yell at them.

Accessibility of the mode should never lie primarily on the shoulder of players. If it's the players themselves that have to pick up the slack, without being able to count on game mechanics to guide and help them, then any accessibility problems that might arise from that are purely design's fault.