If you want players to do strikes, make them more accessible.

[Dante.1763]

32 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

I was confused from the beginning why there was only one mode for raids. For everything before there were always different modes. Even for dungeons there is the story mode that you can easily do alone, without much effort or learning.

However, I am not a fan of the opinion that easy-mode give out LI's. Then you would have to customize a lot of things, which would be a little unfair for people like me who are working on the Legy armor and, let's say anet would really implement something like that now (just imagine, i know its unrealistic) and suddenly I need more LIs. Even if normal mode would then get double LI's, that would only be  doppelt gemoppelt (as we say in Germany)/unnecessary addition.

 

Easy mode should be there to learn. But the real rewards should still remain in Normal mode so that it is worth working it's way up. Like fractals do, low effort, low rewards.

We disagree on that, and thats okay. Im working on my armor too, albeit way slower than id like. kitten you time requirements!

[Mungrul.9358]

I was initially quite excited to see that GW2 had implemented strikes when I returned to the game last summer after a 7 year hiatus.

 

Having played some Destiny 2 in the time between, where I'd really enjoyed strikes, I assumed GW2's strikes would work the same way: a rolling playlist of missions you could drop in to at any time without having to LFG (or you could drop in to with one or more friends).

 

Unfortunately, this is most definitely not the case, and subsequently, I haven't played a single strike other than those few single-player takes on the missions.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of instanced content, but a playlist of fairly quick missions with interesting but not high-pressure mechanics, that I could drop in to whenever I want without having to scare up a group really appeals.

 

But I suspect that it's not possible for the devs to make such a mode, otherwise they would have done so already. After all, why call them strikes if the name's not a nod to Destiny?

[Sobx.1758]

22 minutes ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

I'm not the biggest fan of instanced content, but a playlist of fairly quick missions with interesting but not high-pressure mechanics, that I could drop in to whenever I want without having to scare up a group really appeals.

Sooo.... world bosses, meta events and probably even just ow events in general?

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Mungrul.9358]

You've obviously not played Destiny 2 or its strikes. They're quick, instanced missions  that typically take no longer than 20 minutes. They generally end in an interesting boss fight that requires small team cooperation to defeat. You can drop in and out of the strike queue at any time.

Their strength is that they're instanced, so not bogged down by dozens of other players and they offer a focused challenge.

And when I saw GW2 had adopted the name "strikes" for their new mission type, it was understandable that I thought they would bear some resemblance to their namesake.

 

It's been the only repeatable instanced content that I've enjoyed in an MMO or GAAS in years, outside of The Division's Underground.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Mungrul.9358

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

You've obviously not played Destiny 2 or its strikes. They're quick, instanced missions  that typically take no longer than 20 minutes. They generally end in an interesting boss fight that requires small team cooperation to defeat. You can drop in and out of the strike queue at any time.

Their strength is that they're instanced, so not bogged down by dozens of other players and they offer a focused challenge.

And when I saw GW2 had adopted the name "strikes" for their new mission type, it was understandable that I thought they would bear some resemblance to their namesake.

 

It's been the only repeatable instanced content that I've enjoyed in an MMO or GAAS in years, outside of The Division's Underground.

I did, but even if I didn't, it's irrelevant to what was said above. This is something that you can already encounter in different type of content in gw2, for example in the ones I've listed above: world bosses, meta events and probably even just ow events in general. All of these are "fairly quick missions", some/a lot of which have "interesting but not high-pressure mechanics" that are widely accessible ("/wiki et" ingame for timers) and which you don't need to look for some tight group to complete. What destiny did or does is irrelevant. Suddenly putting that content into limited instances for some reason seems pretty pointless, considering what you want from it. The 5-10 man instanced content is there exactly to make people more responsible/important in regards of the mechanics and the actions they take have more impact on the overal outcome. But then that's usually connected to being "high pressure", which is what you don't want to experience. So you can just do WB/metas/OW events and you get what you expect. 

You either want to have meaningful impact on the content you play through or you don't. You either want mechanics that you have to do or you have "low pressure" ones which then you completely ignore and just slap the bosses through them anyways.

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Dante.1763]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I did, but even if I didn't, it's irrelevant to what was said above. This is something that you can already encounter in different type of content in gw2, for example in the ones I've listed above: world bosses, meta events and probably even just ow events in general. All of these are "fairly quick missions", some/a lot of which have "interesting but not high-pressure mechanics" that are widely accessible ("/wiki et" ingame for timers) and which you don't need to look for some tight group to complete. What destiny did or does is irrelevant. Suddenly putting that content into limited instances for some reason seems pretty pointless, considering what you want from it. The 5-10 man instanced content is there exactly to make people more responsible/important in regards of the mechanics and the actions they take have more impact on the overal outcome. But then that's usually connected to being "high pressure", which is what you don't want to experience. So you can just do WB/metas/OW events and you get what you expect. 

You either want to have meaningful impact on the content you play through or you don't. You either want mechanics that you have to do or you have "low pressure" ones which then you completely ignore and just slap the bosses through them anyways.

 

for some reason, i get notifications whenever you quote the person you quoted ;-;

[Sobx.1758]

28 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

for some reason, i get notifications whenever you quote the person you quoted ;-;

That's weird 🤔 

[Dante.1763]

9 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's weird 🤔 

Right? And looking at my notifications i got notified when he quoted you, what is going on O_o

[Andovar Edoras.2143]

22 hours ago, Raknar.4735 said:

Not even a unique legendary armour with custom transformation effects and huge QoL that was in development for ages was enough to bring a majority into 10 man instanced content. It was merely enough to bring some people in that abruptly quit raiding after getting their reward, no longitivity.

Rewards don‘t turn content into fun content, the content itself must be fun from the start.

 

Raids are too hardcore for the casual player. Both the content itself, and the organizing needed. Not to mention elitists gatekeeping entry, with guildmates being the only option. Strikes have been more lfg-friendly, except that old bag of bones.

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, Andovar Edoras.2143 said:

 

Raids are too hardcore for the casual player. Both the content itself, and the organizing needed. Not to mention elitists gatekeeping entry, with guildmates being the only option. Strikes have been more lfg-friendly, except that old bag of bones.

False, stop spreading/perpetuating lies, thanks.

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/98328-eod-stream-on-july-27-has-to-say-something-about-raids/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1409257

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Captain Kuro.8937]

Maybe they went back in business in Eu 🙂

 

a

b

Edited July 31, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

Maybe they went back in business in Eu 🙂

 

a

b

Maybe Eu just have better teachers so people want to do raid trainings.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

At this point I could write a small book on my adventures in pug raiding.  There's plenty of attitude and attention issues, but what surprised me the most is that players still bring RNG builds into raids.

 

Since it's a term I invented, I'll explain it:  The RNG build is what happens when a player equips themselves exclusively with drops that they get, prioritizing the rarity of the drops only.  The end result of this tactic is effectively a celestial build... with only 57% of the stats that running full celestial would give.  This is how you end up with players who are a bizarre combination of incredibly frail and incredibly feeble at the same time. 

 

I learned that people were doing this on groups that would do toughness checks for tanking, only to find that half the players have strange and non-logical amounts of toughness on their build.  Usually between 200 to 350, never the same number twice and never discrete values.  This interferes with minimalist tanks, which leads to hilarity and sadness if the group goes forward without a toughness check.  The only explanation is that they're running an RNG build.

 

I can only blame the players so much for this.  The GW2 equipment system is unlike those used in single-player RPGs, and even unlike other MMOs.  In many (dare I say most?) other games, the gear that drops that is shinier than what you have now is automatically better than what you have currently, with everything being tailor-designed to cooperate with what your character does.  GW2 is the only game I know that will give you a rifle that prioritizes healing power.  New players coming to this game won't necessarily know about GW2's strange system, and there's almost zero feedback that says you shouldn't build your character like this.

 

There are some other minutia to GW2's combat system that make it really hard for something to be accessible without boring a competent player to sleep.  

[HotDelirium.7984]

-I don't think ANET could confidently predict strike missions would be a lead up to regular raids it was just their hope and it doesn't seem like that worked out.

-Strike Missions need to be advertised in a way that gets casual players and the prior raid community together since this now seems like the new direction and they have retired raids. You can bish and moan about that loss but we have to accept it. 

-Strike Missions need to be advertised as "raid-content" which contain "raid-bosses" and they are a much easier form of a "raid" with minimum time commitment.

-Just take the first raid wing and imagine breaking down each boss into their own strike mission: Vale Guardian, Gorseval and Sabetha. I will hazard a guess that I think more people would have tried them all out if it was structured differently. They see this in their analytics.

 

[HotDelirium.7984]

7 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

At this point I could write a small book on my adventures in pug raiding.  There's plenty of attitude and attention issues, but what surprised me the most is that players still bring RNG builds into raids.

 

Since it's a term I invented, I'll explain it:  The RNG build is what happens when a player equips themselves exclusively with drops that they get, prioritizing the rarity of the drops only.  The end result of this tactic is effectively a celestial build... with only 57% of the stats that running full celestial would give.  This is how you end up with players who are a bizarre combination of incredibly frail and incredibly feeble at the same time. 

 

I learned that people were doing this on groups that would do toughness checks for tanking, only to find that half the players have strange and non-logical amounts of toughness on their build.  Usually between 200 to 350, never the same number twice and never discrete values.  This interferes with minimalist tanks, which leads to hilarity and sadness if the group goes forward without a toughness check.  The only explanation is that they're running an RNG build.

 

I can only blame the players so much for this.  The GW2 equipment system is unlike those used in single-player RPGs, and even unlike other MMOs.  In many (dare I say most?) other games, the gear that drops that is shinier than what you have now is automatically better than what you have currently, with everything being tailor-designed to cooperate with what your character does.  GW2 is the only game I know that will give you a rifle that prioritizes healing power.  New players coming to this game won't necessarily know about GW2's strange system, and there's almost zero feedback that says you shouldn't build your character like this.

 

There are some other minutia to GW2's combat system that make it really hard for something to be accessible without boring a competent player to sleep.  

I enjoyed your post. I would even add to that the food and utility buffs seem to be part of being sustainable and effective recently and I rarely see people with those buffs on. I would NEVER be caught dead in the world without them but I think this game has done a poor job of letting players know that they really should look into those buffs and that they aren't just end game luxuries. The same logic goes into not just stats but runes, sigils and traits. Synergy is a beautiful thing!

Edited August 1, 2021 by HotDelirium.7984

[Sobx.1758]

20 hours ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

Maybe they went back in business in Eu 🙂

 

a

b

The fact that you are able to get lfg list without training runs doesn't change what I said. On the other hand what I said clearly shows that the claim I responded to is made up and tries to pin the fault on design/community/whatever. If you want to get into raids, you can do that quite easly and with each successful attempt it gets easier because more and more lfg squads open up for you. Anything other than lfg, be it raiding guilds or some regularly scheduled training runs are just an addition that's still far from needed to be successful in that content, despite of what some people would like to pretend in threads like this one.

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Captain Kuro.8937]

10 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The fact that you are able to get lfg list without training runs doesn't change what I said. On the other hand what I said clearly shows that the claim I responded to is made up and tries to pin the fault on design/community/whatever. If you want to get into raids, you can do that quite easly and with each successful attempt it gets easier because more and more lfg squads open up for you. Anything other than lfg, be it raiding guilds or some regularly scheduled training runs are just an addition that's still far from needed to be successful in that content, despite of what some people would like to pretend in threads like this one.

 

Or simply rather than wasting time to join  guild , at a specific time ,with a specific spec , i could hop on Strike Missions or Open World Bosses .

I could waste 7 days , in something fun 🙂

Edited August 1, 2021 by Captain Kuro.8937

[Sobx.1758]

5 minutes ago, Captain Kuro.8937 said:

Or simply rather than wasting time to join  guild , at a specific time ,with a specific spec

As I said, that's not needed. Like... that's my whole point here, do you even read? 🙂  

And you're allowed to play whatever you want -go spam world bosses, hf.

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[NotTooFoolish.7412]

On 7/29/2021 at 1:09 AM, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

I'm not a fan of Strike missions at all simply because you could wait in LFG for up to an hour for anyone to be interested in doing it.

Completely different experience on my side, I've been playing for most of the weekend (i tend to browse LFG in my downtime). Quite a lot squads doing strikes, not all of them ofc, cuz FS takes ages to complete, but I managed to do the rest with little to no effort.

The beauty of strikes is that they take less time to complete compared to raid wings. I was on offense at first, but I'm happy to see end game content that didn't get abandoned. Happy to try CMs when they come out.

[Fangoth.4503]

On 7/28/2021 at 11:57 PM, zellurs.8601 said:

My suggestions to make strikes fit into the endgame better are:

- flatten difficulty curve among strike missions. this content should require players using their full set of abilities, but not dedicated roles such as tank/healer

 

have you tried boneskinner without healer? Might be a bit troublesome and it's still an easy strike in theory harder strikes are coming
 

On 7/28/2021 at 11:57 PM, zellurs.8601 said:

- setup an automated lfg strike finder that pulls one randomly from a playlist. remove the useless public option. allow us to autoqueue from our LFG panel.

it will be given up by player when they end up with 6 dps doing as much dps as the healer but still not healing

 

[kanemi.4903]

On 7/29/2021 at 4:28 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

Seems like half of the strikes not requiring you to even press the dodge key isn't accessible enough

There's some greedy deeps who do the same kitten in raid
and then the one healing and maintaining boon uptime gets the blame.

And I tend to stick to the group till the end but sometimes the greedy deeps sole reason for existence is #1 on arcdps, and they don't bother when they kill every single member of the group, because on their mind they are hard carrying everyone!

I can only imagine if there were an automated search for 'instance' like TERA with this kind of people how fun would be...

Edited August 4, 2021 by kanemi.4903

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, kanemi.4903 said:

There's some greedy deeps who do the same kitten in raid
and then the one healing and maintaining boon uptime gets the blame.

If the healer gets the blame for other people failing at mechanics then the group is bad and it's irrelevant who they blame, just saying.

And this is speaking strictly hypothetically, because I generally didn't really encounter these problems. High req mostly understand what is happening, so they rarely randomly blame (or the healer would get "defended" by people that don't need to shift the responsibilities) and low req... usually worry about themselves and just don't blame others without getting brought down to earth 😄 

 

If what you desribed is some kind of general rule, then I'm curious what groups you're joining? On the other hand if it's not the norm, then w/e, these people can pop up anywhere.

 

About the automated search... I'm not sure it would be such a great idea. The obvious upside of having it would be easy queue -click a button, get matched with whomever and play. At least that's the theory. In practice you'd get matched with people of different levels of game knowledge, capabilities and goals, so it would be easy to get into a situation where people constantly leave the squad because they didn't get what they expected. And now you're pretty much stuck in a mill that constantly have people joining and leaving until their goals/knowledge/abilities/expectations align and they can finally start playing the content. Creating a squad and advertising it through lfg with a clear description seems to be a better way to play with who you actually want to play.

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

On 7/29/2021 at 11:20 PM, Naomi Nightfisher.4138 said:

The issue here is simple.

 

None of you want to be a member of a guild.

 

You want to queue in a raid finder, and be given people to play with.

 

Guild Wars lets you be in FIVE guilds at a time.

 

Want to find a strike?

 

Try this.

 

"Hey guildies who I know and am an active part of your community, Who wants to do a strike?"

<9 people you know say yes>

<You do a strike>

 

The problem isnt that GW2 doesnt facilitate being a loner, its that you all are antisocial AF.

 

🙂

Not to mention the general attitude by some players that rewards shouldn't require effort. At times I'm truly baffled; why are you playing a massive multiplayer online game that offers you a multitude of socializing activities, when you keep on asking to have all content be trivialized to suit your needs.

There's a number of games out there that offer exactly what you're looking for. Why try and desperately turn a trope, a genre and an IP into something it is not.

Cold - harsh - truth is, there's a number of ways to facilitate the already easy-ish access to content such as strikes; but the ones complaining are too lazy and ignorant, and blame the mismanagement of their time on the game, devs and the rest of the community.

Outsourcing responsibility in this manner is the facsimile of a toddler.

Edited August 6, 2021 by NorthernRedStar.3054

[Fangoth.4503]

On 7/31/2021 at 9:47 AM, Andovar Edoras.2143 said:

 

Raids are too hardcore for the casual player. Both the content itself, and the organizing needed. Not to mention elitists gatekeeping entry, with guildmates being the only option. Strikes have been more lfg-friendly, except that old bag of bones.

Personally i know someone having only 2 working fingers on his skill hand and still can competing with others raid dps on any boss.
People are gatekeeping themselves by:
-running wrong build
-running wrong gear
-running unthought teamcomp
-not practicing their rotation
-not looking up guides
-claiming it's too hard when failing once instead of learning from their mistakes
often they do cumulate all the above just to be sure it's as hard as possible on themselves and their team

strike are more lfg friendly only because they just require to auto attack in minstrel gear, add an once of difficulty to it and you endup with requirement because you need player to be capable of performing above the average player

  

On 7/29/2021 at 9:20 PM, Naomi Nightfisher.4138 said:

None of you want to be a member of a guild.

ofc i don't want to, there is always a couple of people that are underperforming and you can't tell them to leave because they are the friend of X or Y.
in guild it was 4 updraft gorse then i went in a training discord and saw that they refuses to do updrafts because you can have correct dps even in training I just gquit on spot. and i'm talking about 2019, not some early raiding

Edited August 6, 2021 by Fangoth.4503

[marielleberto.3865]

On 7/28/2021 at 10:52 PM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Strikes have the same problem as raids have.

 

Why exactly should I do them? 

There are better ways to get gear and gold. 

If I want a challenge I fight other players. 

 

 

 

 

Different types of content are available for different types of players. Challenging content exists in either PvP or PvE. I do strikes and raids mainly because I enjoy doing them, not because they are or not the best way to get gear and gold.