Engineers should not be able to throw Grenades behind them

[AGamer.3168]

Grenades are OP as it is, dealing high damage, applying three different conditions and having range of 900 makes it a must have in the arsenal. Adding the ability to run away in the opposite  direction makes it OP. Lich doesn't have the ability to Claw backwards due to the damage plus mobility, grenades are very similar and should be treated as such.

[Stalima.5490]

Except it is physically possible to throw grenades backwards thus it is acceptably thematic to do so.

 

I feel that to make the bomb kit more appealing they need to make the grenades land on the ground then explode and the shorter the range the longer the fuse, this would essentially solidify them as a long range weapon and not a melee weapon, thus the Bomb kit would become the go-to for short range explosives.

 

However as a thrown weapon, they should not really be traveling the distance of a firearm and thus should perhaps only have 600-700 range.

 

In summary I feel the grenades should have high damage, slow projectiles and be reasonably avoidable via a ground presence, becoming a bit of a panic inducing weapon while the mortar kit should have fast projectiles and instant explosions, it is a little too similar to the grenade kit in my opinion.

[AGamer.3168]

Maybe by lobbing them over your head backwards, but not the way it's animated. Those are some fair points, having a fuse time would make the high damage reasonable as they don't explode on contact making it easier to dodge. Having a shorter range would make it a CQC utility and that's fair.

[quaniesan.8497]

I agree. They overdid it with the grenade kits.  The closest thing to "spam to win" kinda thing. 

[ThrakathNar.4537]

30 minutes ago, quaniesan.8497 said:

The closest thing to "spam to win" kinda thing. 

A bold statement when other things in the game include:

- Rifle "22222" Deadeye

- Condi "3333" Thief

- Flamethrower "11111" Scrapper

- Fire "I heal the more I press buttons" Weaver

- Blood "Drop the AoEs and press W" Scourge

- Lich "11111" Form (and bonus reaper shroud autos spam)

- Condi "Spam the shortbow" Soulbeast

 

Skill spam, especially autoattack spam, is just the way for any class to win, because the more damage you do the faster your opponent dies. Realistically, there are only four scenarios where spamming your skills does not let you win quicker:

1) The skill is a defensive cooldown that you're saving for their burst or a +1

2) The skill has a negative effect on you (corruptions on necromancer) where you need to make sure you can line up your condi transfer/cleanse with it.

3) The opponent is protected in some way from your attacks, whether through invulns, kiting, weakness/protection, blocking, etc.

4) Using skills hurts your resource management. This is only relevant to thieves, revenants, and holosmiths, where you can't just press all of your weapon skills off cooldown, as you'll run out of energy/initiative or overheat. Every other class can ignore this and just press all the weapons skills.

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

everyone can cast aoes behind themselves. maybe throwing nades should turn you around?

[Aeolus.3615]

On 7/29/2021 at 7:50 AM, Stalima.5490 said:

Except it is physically possible to throw grenades backwards thus it is acceptably thematic to do so.

 

I feel that to make the bomb kit more appealing they need to make the grenades land on the ground then explode and the shorter the range the longer the fuse, this would essentially solidify them as a long range weapon and not a melee weapon, thus the Bomb kit would become the go-to for short range explosives.

 

However as a thrown weapon, they should not really be traveling the distance of a firearm and thus should perhaps only have 600-700 range.

 

In summary I feel the grenades should have high damage, slow projectiles and be reasonably avoidable via a ground presence, becoming a bit of a panic inducing weapon while the mortar kit should have fast projectiles and instant explosions, it is a little too similar to the grenade kit in my opinion.

 

That delay on nade explosion would make then uncounterable, that would be a buff on them making  them a unbalockable aoe on the gorund or several aoe-s.

The current state of nades is not hard to nullify, its a team game after all.

[Dawdler.8521]

On 8/3/2021 at 5:56 AM, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

everyone can cast aoes behind themselves. maybe throwing nades should turn you around?

I would rather argue all ground AoE should have a character based fov limitation, ie 200 or so degrees in front of your character. If you want to throw nades behind you... turn around yourself.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[anduriell.6280]

On 7/30/2021 at 2:22 AM, AGamer.3168 said:

Maybe by lobbing them over your head backwards, but not the way it's animated. Those are some fair points, having a fuse time would make the high damage reasonable as they don't explode on contact making it easier to dodge. Having a shorter range would make it a CQC utility and that's fair.

The "arming" time similar to how traps works would be a nice solution depending on how well it is implemented. 

 

 

[Bishop.5938]

I think nades are good how they are

[The Fear.3865]

Nades are actually really good and hard to master so imo, its ok.

[Nero.7369]

I think thematically it's fine for grenades, because you can actually throw those behind.

While throwing behind is indeed pretty strong, the huge downside is the usage is clunky.
A) Ground targeting, its not like u can just run away and press 1111, you actually have to aim

B) The flying speed is pretty low, so if somebody isnt following straight along you miss often

C) Due to the bad arc (specially when traited) the nades often get stuck at terrain and dont even reach the aimed location
D) To reduce the issues of B and C its most effectively used at close range

So imo its absolutely fine the way it is.

 

PS: As an engineer we could also just drop boms if you straight follow a runaway engineer 😉

PPS: Mortat tho... is thematically not fitting and C doesnt apply, while A and B still do. With a fix for B I'd see fit for a change to the mortar at least.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by NeroBoron.7285